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Old 05-26-2013   #451
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Default Re: MECA 2013 rules

As I've told Jim before, I was on the fence about competing, simply because I didn't want to follow a set of rules for my build, putting me in extreme (with no prior experience), but this is enough that I won't compete in MECA, and can't recommend for anyone else to compete with them either. I think I will be sending an email to them stating such as well.

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Old 05-27-2013   #452
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Default Re: MECA 2013 rules

Gotta admit, this does seem a little ridiculous. Its like the "flush tweeters in Street" controversy from last year. The rules plainly stated flush mounted tweets were allowed in Street but the R&E guys read between the lines and came to the conclusion that they weren't allowed on the dash regardless of there being no mention of this in the actual rules.

Now this fiasco.

Im a long time diehard defender of MECA but I have to finally admit that it does seem like theyre nickel and diming the rules a little too much. I liked it better when it was just simple and it was based on where the speakers were located and you weren't getting bumped 4 classes up because a bracket was 1/2" too long or something totally trivial like that.

People are upset every year with the rules and such but there should be no "spirit of the rules" in a decision. Don't start tripping competitors up on technicalities. This is a sure fire way to run a lot of people out of the sport or at least out of MECA. If some crafty and innovative competitor comes up with something different that's not covered in the rules like this Smart car thing, and the R&E guys don't like it, change it next year. Don't start making rules up or finding things that simply aren't there right in the middle of the season.

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Old 05-27-2013   #453
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Default Re: MECA 2013 rules

I totally agree with you Aaron

By no means should this be twisted into this competitor was actively looking for a way to bend the rules. Meca is trying to make it seem like this competitor found a "grey area" and wants an exception to the rule. this is just plain stupid. They put a stereo system in a car, and decided after several months of having it, to compete with it. They looked in the rulebook to see where they would be classified. sub is in factory location...check! looks like street...confirmed by several meca judges...check! A protest occurs, and Meca decides their rule was written incorrectly, and says they don't belong in that class, and boldly gives an example of what the rule "should of said"

Congrats Meca, you just lost the nicest family that participated in Meca that I know because you can't follow your own rules.

I was a long time supporter of Meca, but having no integrity with the rules, I cannot faithfully spend one more minute competing, nor helping anybody that chooses to compete in Meca.


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Old 05-27-2013   #454
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Default Re: MECA 2013 rules

After all of this, I think MECA would be making a huge mistake not to reverse the decision. It's not too late to make it right.

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Old 05-27-2013   #455
 
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Default Re: MECA 2013 rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRed View Post
,I cannot faithfully spend one more minute competing, nor helping anybody that chooses to compete in Meca.
+1

bush league BS. Who's to say they won't change the rules on me too? I had my install confirmed by a R & E member. But now my confidence is shaken; and I don't want to put myself through potential stress and anger when they change the rules again.


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Old 05-27-2013   #456
 
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Default Re: MECA 2013 rules

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I totally agree with you Aaron

By no means should this be twisted into this competitor was actively looking for a way to bend the rules. Meca is trying to make it seem like this competitor found a "grey area" and wants an exception to the rule. this is just plain stupid. They put a stereo system in a car, and decided after several months of having it, to compete with it. They looked in the rulebook to see where they would be classified. sub is in factory location...check! looks like street...confirmed by several meca judges...check! A protest occurs, and Meca decides their rule was written incorrectly, and says they don't belong in that class, and boldly gives an example of what the rule "should of said"

Congrats Meca, you just lost the nicest family that participated in Meca that I know because you can't follow your own rules.

I was a long time supporter of Meca, but having no integrity with the rules, I cannot faithfully spend one more minute competing, nor helping anybody that chooses to compete in Meca.
Wow Jim!
That's a huge loss for the California MECA community.
I know all that you've done to help out and all the traveling you do to compete.
It's a damn shame.

To Steve and the R&E Committee,
You've just lost Jim and all that he does for everyone and that's a big ass deal.
Others have posted they're quitting MECA as well.
I myself will go on record that once my build is completed and judged at a few events this year, that I will not re up my MECA registration for 2014.

I TRULY BELIEVE YOU JUST DON'T HAVE A GRASP ON THE GRAVITY OF THE SITUATION YOU"VE CREATED OUT HERE!
DON'T BELIEVE ME? ASK YOUR CALIFORNIA REP KIMO AND I ASSURE YOU WILL GET A PROPER UNDERSTANDING ON THE MAGNATUDE OF YOUR MISTAKE!

And your choosing to be silent in this thread has made it all even worse.



You're going to lose ALL of California if you don't make this right.


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Old 05-27-2013   #457
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Default

I've had it as well. I'm not going to compete any more because apparently the higher-ups at MECA don't know how to articulate their thoughts well on pen and paper in the english language. I've already left fuming from two different events over the judges' different interpretations of the rules. Add to that all the crap pulled on other members of this site based on interpretation and technicalities. Now this (I hear-by name it the SmartcarGate scandal). Unlike a lot of others here, I've got little to lose. I've talked to a lot of others here who feel just as strongly, but dare not say anything.

MECA committee members: Take a fucking course at your local community college, guys. Learn the ancient art of wordsmithing. If I find any relevant books on the subject, I'll be sure to send them your way. Yea, some of you guys may even be engineers but even you guys need a refresher every now and then.

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Old 05-27-2013   #458
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Default Re: MECA 2013 rules

I'm trying to get people with some sway in this organization to see this and do something to make it right. I've had fun in the short time I've been involved in MECA and don't want to see it lose a large member base.

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Old 05-27-2013   #459
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Default Re: MECA 2013 rules

The problem isn't with the rules, it never has been really. It doesn't matter to me if it has to be a stock enclosure or not or if flush mounted tweeters should be allowed or not. The issue is that its NOT listed in the rules and so SHOULD BE ALLOWED. This "spirit of the rules" is horseshit. If the rules do not say the enclosure has to be the stock one, then it doesn't. Plain and simple. If the R&E guys feel that it should remain a stock enclosure then the rules should be changed for NEXT year, not halfway thru this season. And whoopy if they did let them carry over their points, now theyre in Modified competing with a Street install. So all the work they did this season is right down the toilet because MECA left something out of the rules. The email Steve sent said that the rules "should have read" a certain way. I understand that but THEY DONT. Therefore, a custom enclosure in the stock location is NOT against the rules in Street.

There is no way MECA can make rules governing everything conceivable and think of every possible modification, I totally get that and will defend them to the death over that. But when theyre changing the rules on a whim based on something as hokey as "spirit" then that's when Ill begrudgingly join the chorus of the pissed.

Rules are worthless if they can be changed mid season. This isn't the NFL where they can change a rule and its "from now on, we do it this way". Everybody was on the same playing field before and after and there is no competitive advantage. But if you build a system according to the rules, spend tons of time and money designing, building and tuning it then spend a few months hitting shows and working out the kinks THEN halfway thru youre told, "oops, wrong class. Sorry youre getting bumped 2 classes and all the work you've done to date was for nothing", well that's just wrong on so many levels.

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Old 05-27-2013   #460
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Default Re: MECA 2013 rules

Possible to post pics of the OEM sub enclosure removed and the one actually in the car?

A quick Google search pulled up this aftermarket enclosure: Smart Car Under Dash 8" Subwoofer Enclosure only

I can only imagine there must be a big difference between the OEM and whats in there for them to pull the spirit thing.........

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Old 05-27-2013   #461
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Default Re: MECA 2013 rules

It used factory location and mounting brackets Kirk, the rules only state that it must be in the factory location. They followed the rules as written, what it looks like doesn't make a damn but of difference.

At the end of the day, it's just car audio man
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Old 05-27-2013   #462
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Default Re: MECA 2013 rules

I haven't seen the pics to know its in the same location. Was the after market box built larger and perhaps the location/angle of the sub changed but a box is in the same area as OEM and uses the OEM bracket? Why not just use the OEM box as MECA has said can be done? Maybe it is the same, just want to see.

I cannot jump on the lynching until I know all the facts.

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Old 05-27-2013   #463
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Default Re: MECA 2013 rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Bassick - Kimo View Post
I have responded to Richard and Linda and they can choose to share but, looks as if the SMART has to be reclassified and here are some options:

- Remove enclosure and reinstall manufacture enclosure.
- Disconnect enclosure and compete with or without a sub enclosure in cargo area.
- Rebuild the vehicle for another class

Whatever they choose to do the points will be moved to their new class for this season.
Guys and gals,

This has been a little much for us, so we're taking a step back. I have emailed Kimo, Steve, and Fred (the lead judge at the show). I'm attaching it here for everyone. We wish everyone the very best this Memorial Day.

All the best to everyone,
- Richard, Linda, and family
Attached Files
File Type: pdf SmartLastEmail.pdf (77.2 KB, 33 views)


Last edited by papasin; 05-27-2013 at 10:26 PM.. Reason: Updated attachment to remove personal email addresses
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Old 05-27-2013   #464
 
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Default Re: MECA 2013 rules

The problem is street class only allows limited modification of the factory speaker mounting there really is no gray area.
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Old 05-27-2013   #465
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Default Re: MECA 2013 rules

No, the problem is that the rules say nothing about having to use the stock enclosure. All it says is that you have to use the stock location and if the stock location is up front under the dash, you can use it. If they want to include stock enclosure in next year's rules, that's totally fine but theyre not in there right now so to penalize a competitor halfway thru a season like this when they were following the letter of the rules just isn't right.

This is the 2nd time this season that they've changed the rules AFTER the season started (not to mention the flush tweeter thing last year). Erin is now in Extreme because of the first little snafu. Im not calling for anybody's head or for boycotting or anything like that at all. I still love MECA and have nothing but respect for Steve and the R&E boys as they don't have an easy job, Im just lobbying for consistency. The rules have to be consistent throughout the season. In this sport, you cant be changing rules and bumping people up MULTIPLE classes halfway thru the season by finding things in the rules that are LITERALLY NOT IN THERE!

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Old 05-27-2013   #466
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Default Re: MECA 2013 rules

Until I see pics I cannot make judgement. What if the OEM enclosure had the sub facing down for example (no clue) but the new enclosure has the sub facing towards the fire wall.(again no clue) The enclosure might be in the same area of the car but now the sub is not in same location. And Modified IMHO. (And if you look at the MECA results you see that now hubby and wife are in the same class, hmmm. Wouldn't be fun for me anymore. )

Not that my opinion means anything one way or the other, I am curious as to why MECA is saying go back to the OEM, change classes, etc. That throws up a red flag that something is very different about the enclosure used and that the speaker location is not the same as OEM.

And I do disagree with mid season rule changes. Not all the facts have been posted here is all I know so far.

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Old 05-27-2013   #467
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Default Re: MECA 2013 rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuraTLSQ View Post
(And if you look at the MECA results you see that now hubby and wife are in the same class, hmmm. Wouldn't be fun for me anymore. )
Really? Really? Thanks for being sensitive to the stress we have been put through and you have absolutely no idea. I'm done, my wife is done. Thanks a lot, really!

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Old 05-27-2013   #468
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Default Re: MECA 2013 rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuraTLSQ View Post
Until I see pics I cannot make judgement. What if the OEM enclosure had the sub facing down for example (no clue) but the new enclosure has the sub facing towards the fire wall.(again no clue) The enclosure might be in the same area of the car but now the sub is not in same location. And Modified IMHO. (And if you look at the MECA results you see that now hubby and wife are in the same class, hmmm. Wouldn't be fun for me anymore. )

Not that my opinion means anything one way or the other, I am curious as to why MECA is saying go back to the OEM, change classes, etc. That throws up a red flag that something is very different about the enclosure used and that the speaker location is not the same as OEM.

And I do disagree with mid season rule changes. Not all the facts have been posted here is all I know so far.
I hear ya brother. Like I said, my beef isn't with them not wanting a custom enclosure, my beef is that prohibiting a custom enclosure wasn't in the rules but its being ruled on as if it were. That's where the problem is.

Nobody can blame the R&E guys from missing something in the rule book but then you cant punish competitors that have done nothing wrong because of it either. A competitor building a car according to the Street class rules then being bumped TWO classes because of some "spirit of the rules" cock and bull just aint right. That's the issue here and what has everybody fired up.

Im on record in this very thread not to mention half a dozen other forums over the years defending MECA tooth and nail so ya know Im not gonna bitch about something if I don't think its valid.

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Old 05-27-2013   #469
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Default Re: MECA 2013 rules

PM sent.

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Old 05-27-2013   #470
 
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Default Re: MECA 2013 rules

So now the Papasin family is out.
A damn crummy result to all this.


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Old 05-28-2013   #471
 
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Default Re: MECA 2013 rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by PPI-ART COLLECTOR View Post
So now the Papasin family is out.
A damn crummy result to all this.


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along with a lot of others in CA that will not condone this behavior. Well done MECA. Well done.
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Old 05-28-2013   #472
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Default Re: MECA 2013 rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by papasin View Post
Really? Really? Thanks for being sensitive to the stress we have been put through and you have absolutely no idea. I'm done, my wife is done. Thanks a lot, really!
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuraTLSQ View Post
PM sent.
I would like to clarify. We sincerely meant what I wrote in the letter I posted above. It's not entirely my place, but Steve does have other things weighing in and that is why I said what I said. My heartfelt best wishes to him.

My hope is for the benefit of the many others that MECA does do the right thing, but for my wife and myself as a family we do need a break one way or another. When I say above we are done, we are done with this thread. Every time either of us open it, it's just too much.

Finally, this isn't about the Smart or us anymore. For us, what we need is to go back to enjoying each other and our family. When the kids are starting to ask questions about us and if we're ok, we know we need to refocus ourselves. Perhaps we can go back to competition, perhaps not. Only time will tell.

Competing against each other might be actually fun, but, let's be clear, that's not the point.

Thanks,
- Richard

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Old 05-28-2013   #473
 
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Default Re: MECA 2013 rules

Factory speaker locations may be trimmed to fit same size replacement speaker (cone area). In no case can more than 1/2” of total diameter be removed.

There is no need for a rule change.
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Old 05-28-2013   #474
 
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Default Re: MECA 2013 rules

What a shame. Richard you are a great competitor and good friend. I respect your decision and hopefully I get a chance to hear the Civic soon.
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Old 05-28-2013   #475
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Default Re: MECA 2013 rules

IMO the final ruling is correct. Up front sub, regardless of factory option or not should be modified class.
The issue is more about how this was all handled and the process, which I do not agree with and it continues to be a "problem" for MECA.

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