newbie wants to build entry-level system

[vanderstephen]

Hello. I am new to car audio and would love some advice on setting up a system in steps. Please bear with my multitude of questions. I have an '05 Subaru Impreza RS. First, I need a new HU with the appropriate outputs. Is there much of a SQ difference in the HU's in the $250-$300 price range and would any reputable brand be as good as one another (Eclipse, Clarion and Alpine areall near me)? I also want to do component speakers for the front running off of their own outboard amp. I was thinking about doing the Peerless 5.25" exclusives. They seem to be well regarded on this forum and have a nice shallow mounting depth. I would like Madisound to build crossovers for me. I'm confused about the tweeters. A lot of the ones mentioned have a wide mounting plate intended for home speakers. Is it possible to mount them in the factory location? Or would something like the Seas 27TFFNC/G be easy to mount (or at least not require any modification). Lastly, any recommendations for an amp around $300.00 Thanks for your patience and input!

[Hi There]

Just by way of a general suggestion, you could approach the question from a requirements standpoint...Like, "I want a system that does (a, b, c) and sounds (x,y,z)." Then, you'll be better prepared to ask for specific recommendations. Some questions that occur are what sort of functionality you want (ipod integration, equalizer, time alignment, etc.), what kind of power output do you want (type of music, your tastes in terms of bass output, preference for bright or mellow high end, typical usage daily driver/weekend warrior, etc.), what kind of staging you want (pinpoint center focus without regard for passengers, care more about tonal response over staging, compromise between passenger/driver with wide staging, be-all-end-all of staging with no compromises anywhere, etc.) and what you're willing to do to customize your interior for sound (factory locations only, fiberglass kicks, sound deadening/absorption, tweeters in sail panels, etc).

The more specific you are about your needs, the better and more useful the responses will be.

Oh, and I'd try to do a sit-down evaluation of a few systems that have been installed by a pro so that you can compare/contrast your needs and budget with what you like or dislike about a system.

[ghart999]

Welcome to the forum. First off - with head units I don't think you can find anything better than the Pioneer 880PRS right now. Excellent sound quality and unlimited tuning options. You will be hard pressed to find something better for twice the cost. Can get em new for $300 or used for $225-$250.

You could go used and pick up an Alpine 9835 (of which I am selling right now for $250) or 9855 for this price range and get great quality and tuning features as well.

Eclipse folks with chime in too I am sure.

Regarding an amp and crossovers. I would highly suggest you go active crossovers and not passive crossovers. You have more flexibility this way. Plus you aren't wasting money on custom crossovers that will only work with the drivers they are made for. If you ever upgrade, you would need new custom crossovers.

The only difference is you would need a 4-channel amp instead of 2 channels. But that is not a big deal in your price range. Plenty of 4 channel amps of solid quality can be had for $300.

Tuning active takes some time and effort but it is much better in the long run.

I hope this helps get your started.

Gregg

[Dan]

I don't mean to hijack your thread, but I'm pretty much in the same boat as you. I saw the above Pioneer recommendation and wanted to know if this unit (DEH-P980BT)http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pn...159553,00.html would allow for manual time alignment, EQing and crossover points/slopes. I notice that it says it has auto alignment and such.

[tbreihan]

Originally Posted by vanderstephen

Hello. I am new to car audio and would love some advice on setting up a system in steps. Please bear with my multitude of questions. I have an '05 Subaru Impreza RS. First, I need a new HU with the appropriate outputs. Is there much of a SQ difference in the HU's in the $250-$300 price range and would any reputable brand be as good as one another (Eclipse, Clarion and Alpine areall near me)? I also want to do component speakers for the front running off of their own outboard amp. I was thinking about doing the Peerless 5.25" exclusives. They seem to be well regarded on this forum and have a nice shallow mounting depth. I would like Madisound to build crossovers for me. I'm confused about the tweeters. A lot of the ones mentioned have a wide mounting plate intended for home speakers. Is it possible to mount them in the factory location? Or would something like the Seas 27TFFNC/G be easy to mount (or at least not require any modification). Lastly, any recommendations for an amp around $300.00 Thanks for your patience and input!

Personally, I am not sure why you'd want to do a raw-driver, DIY setup IF you are having custom passive crossovers built.

I'd look at the Pioneer Premier TS-C520PRS components. This set will give you a better woofer than a Peerless Exclusive, a slightly inferior tweeter (although still very good) than the Seas Neo and a passive crossover that's probably as good as what you'd get having Madisound build them. You can get this set online for ~$250. Honestly, it's worth at least 3 times that.

My recommendation:

Head Unit: Alpine CDA-9887 ($400 @ Crutchfield): This is going to give you all of Bass Engine Pro DSP featuers (2/3-way X-over, 7-band PEQ, T/A) so if want to do full active in the future, you've got capable processing. Also, probably of higher quality than the Pioneer 880 with better reliability and full factory warranty.

Speakers: Pioneer Premier TS-C520PRS components (~$250 on the 'net)

Amp: Blaupunkt VA4100 ($170 @ Midwest Electronics): This amp does 100W RMS X 4 @ 4-ohms and 300W X 2 @ 4-ohms, so you could use the front channels to power your components and bridge the rear channels to single 10- or 12-inch sub, if you wanted to add one in the future.

IMO, this is good start on a system with allows for a lot of extensibility and utilizes very good and some cases world-class components. I think you'd be satisfied with it!

[Vestax]

Originally Posted by Dan

I don't mean to hijack your thread, but I'm pretty much in the same boat as you. I saw the above Pioneer recommendation and wanted to know if this unit (DEH-P980BT)http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pn...159553,00.html would allow for manual time alignment, EQing and crossover points/slopes. I notice that it says it has auto alignment and such.

Sure can sir.

https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/v...tionManual.pdf

[ghart999]

Originally Posted by Dan

I don't mean to hijack your thread, but I'm pretty much in the same boat as you. I saw the above Pioneer recommendation and wanted to know if this unit (DEH-P980BT)http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pn...159553,00.html would allow for manual time alignment, EQing and crossover points/slopes. I notice that it says it has auto alignment and such.

It does these things, but costs more and look too flashy for many people. The 880 just oozes class.

[ghart999]

Originally Posted by tbreihan

Head Unit: Alpine CDA-9887 ($400 @ Crutchfield): This is going to give you all of Bass Engine Pro DSP featuers (2/3-way X-over, 7-band PEQ, T/A) so if want to do full active in the future, you've got capable processing. Also, probably of higher quality than the Pioneer 880 with better reliability and full factory warranty.

The 9887 is not released yet. Nor have reviews been done on it. No one know how good this unit will be. So how can you assume the quality and reliability will be higher? Alpine has put out crap for the last 3-4 years (the 9835 and 9855 being the last good ones). There first attempt back at a higher quality piece is unknown. For this reason alone I chose a 4-year old 7998 over the 9887.

[khail19]

Originally Posted by ghart999

The 9887 is not released yet. Nor have reviews been done on it. No one know how good this unit will be. So how can you assume the quality and reliability will be higher? Alpine has put out crap for the last 3-4 years (the 9835 and 9855 being the last good ones). There first attempt back at a higher quality piece is unknown. For this reason alone I chose a 4-year old 7998 over the 9887.

Pioneer's been making decks with crappy pre-outs for years now, it's not just the 880. I agree that Alpine decks have lost a lot of features in the last few years, but I haven't heard of many reliability problems lately. The 9887 seems like an updated 9835 with some added features, so it's not like Alpine is venturing into new territory here.

[Dan]

Which between the Pioneer and Alpine are better in the SQ department? They both seem to utilize very similar, if not the same, technology.

[ghart999]

Originally Posted by Dan

Which between the Pioneer and Alpine are better in the SQ department? They both seem to utilize very similar, if not the same, technology.

Which Alpine are you referring to? 9835 v. 880, I would say the 9835 has a slight edge. I also compared the 9855 to the 880 and found the 880 to have better SQ.

The new 9887 is not out yet, so no one knows yet.

[Dan]

Originally Posted by ghart999

It does these things, but costs more and look too flashy for many people. The 880 just oozes class.

I would like BT functionality for hands-free calls. That's the only reason I brought it up.

[tbreihan]

Originally Posted by Dan

Which between the Pioneer and Alpine are better in the SQ department? They both seem to utilize very similar, if not the same, technology.

It's probably a wash, especially at this price point.

In the sub-$1000 HU market, I'd say that you are mostly buying features, not SQ.

[tbreihan]

Originally Posted by ghart999

The 9887 is not released yet. Nor have reviews been done on it. No one know how good this unit will be. So how can you assume the quality and reliability will be higher? Alpine has put out crap for the last 3-4 years (the 9835 and 9855 being the last good ones). There first attempt back at a higher quality piece is unknown. For this reason alone I chose a 4-year old 7998 over the 9887.

I have, in the past, owned a Premier HU, and it was unreliable. It had intermittent CD transport problems throughout its life and the backlight crapped out 2-weeks out of warranty. I've had three other friends/personal acquaintances with the same or similar experiences.

This is no means a scientific study, but I have no first hand experience with problematic Alpine decks, old or new. I'm not saying that Alpine is the be-all, end-all of car receivers, but Pioneer decks exhibit too many problems for my taste.

As others have pointed out, we're not talking about Blaupunkt or Panasonic here, and it's not as though this is new territory for Alpine.

[Dan]

Ok, what has Alpine changed over the past few years to make their receivers considered "crappy"?

One person is saying Alpine is better than Pioneer, as they have had reliability issues with it, and another says Alpine is crappy. I am confused as to why.

[khail19]

Alpine's recent decks have not had the processing capability that the older models did. The high end Alpines from a few years ago, like the 9855/9853, 9835/9833, 7998, and some others had Bass Engine Pro, which gives you T/A, a good crossover section and EQ. The newer ones like the 9857 have gone away from Bass Engine Pro, but added more iPod features. The 9887 due out is supposed to have the best of both worlds.

[Dan]

What about the Eclipse CD7100? Is this the ultimate deck for under 1K? It looks as though it is capable of all the processing needed to do a full active setup, no?

[khail19]

Originally Posted by Dan

What about the Eclipse CD7100? Is this the ultimate deck for under 1K? It looks as though it is capable of all the processing needed to do a full active setup, no?

It's a good deck, but for under $1K I think I'd prefer the Clarion DRZ9255. It can do 4 way active and it's the best looking deck around IMO.

[fenrisx]

Not trying to hijack either, but is that new Alpine going to have the 24bit Burr Brown DAC, or will it be a 'regulated 1bit'? The few people I've asked tend to agree than the 24bit Burr Browns in the Pioneers sound better than the 1bit DAC's found in the higher end Alpines.

[tbreihan]

Originally Posted by fenrisx

Not trying to hijack either, but is that new Alpine going to have the 24bit Burr Brown DAC, or will it be a 'regulated 1bit'? The few people I've asked tend to agree than the 24bit Burr Browns in the Pioneers sound better than the 1bit DAC's found in the higher end Alpines.

According to the published specs, the 9887 is going to have a 24-bit DAC.

While I consider a multi-bit DAC nice, it surely isn't going to guarantee better sound quality, particularly in a $400 HU. The DAC simply isn't the weak link in most mainstream receivers.

Look at Zapco's stand-alone DAC; it uses a 1-bit chip and costs $900. It terms of SQ, I'd say it has edge on the Alpine HUs .