Scanspeak vs. Seas Lotus - which to choose?

[joms]

Im in the midst of choosing between Scanspeaks and Seas. I can't listen to them as im from the philippines so i need your comments. If it were you, which would you get:

Choice A:

Scanspeak mids - 12M/4631G00 (4.5")
Scanspeak midbass - 18W/4531G00 (7")

Choice B:

Seas Lotus mids - Reference RM110 (4")
Seas Lotus midbass - CW17E002 (6.5")

Note: I will run the midbass IB and the mids will go with my Hiquphone tweets in the kickpods.

My full system can be found at:

www.joms.net/caraudio

[npdang]

Imo, the Seas Excel is the better choice for clarity and realism. But the Scan-speak is far easier to work with, and more forgiving of bad recordings. It's still pretty "up there" in terms of detail, but it doesn't have quite the transparency of the Seas Excel... although some people will say it sounds "warmer" and more full bodied. I also think the Excel has better bass in free-air... a bit punchier and faster sounding.

I also like ribbon tweeters over any dome :)

[joms]

you meant seas lotus and not excel right? anyway, did your comment refer to the RM110 too? i know that the CW17E002 (6.5") is what everyone deems as a great sounding midrange but does the RM110 perform the same?

if ever, the CW17E002 (6.5") will play 60hz-250hz and the RM110 will play 250hz-3Khz.

i have read nice reviews on the 6.5 but it seems i cant find any on the RM110.

[npdang]

you meant seas lotus and not excel right? anyway, did your comment refer to the RM110 too? i know that the CW17E002 (6.5") is what everyone deems as a great sounding midrange but does the RM110 perform the same?

if ever, the CW17E002 (6.5") will play 60hz-250hz and the RM110 will play 250hz-3Khz.

i have read nice reviews on the 6.5 but it seems i cant find any on the RM110.

Lotus and Excel is very similar in the midrange... but Excel has better bass Imo.

The little 4.5" mid is almost identical to the Seas Excel w12 I reviewed. The only midrange that I've heard as "better" would be the Seas Excel 5" magnesium with the neo motor.

It really depends on what kind of sound you are going for. The Scan is very open, natural, and a bit more full bodied and warm sounding. The Seas just sounds very real and transparent... no coverup or anything... just sheer, raw detail.

[joms]

in terms of the midbass, it seems the Scans would perform better in an enclosure while the seas can do IB.

how about in midrange? which among the two would need a smaller enclosure? and what type of enclosure would you recommend? some say to seal it, some say to port it, and some say to open the back and have it leak to the carpet....

what do you suggest? Tnx =)

[npdang]

The Lotus would need the smallest enclosure, although both are really too big for a kickpanel.

First choice I'd vent the back to the outside of the car. If you can't do that, I'd leave it sealed but use as much polyfill inside as possible and make sure to have an equalizer to remove the lower end peaks in the response.

Midrange enclosure is very critical, so try to make it as well dampened as you can, and as large as you can. If it's playing music, put your hand on it. There should be no vibration when playing.

[joms]

The Lotus would need the smallest enclosure, although both are really too big for a kickpanel.

First choice I'd vent the back to the outside of the car. If you can't do that, I'd leave it sealed but use as much polyfill inside as possible and make sure to have an equalizer to remove the lower end peaks in the response.

Midrange enclosure is very critical, so try to make it as well dampened as you can, and as large as you can. If it's playing music, put your hand on it. There should be no vibration when playing.

you are talking about the lotus 4" RM110 midrange right?

Yah thats the one.

[npdang]

The Lotus would need the smallest enclosure, although both are really too big for a kickpanel.

First choice I'd vent the back to the outside of the car. If you can't do that, I'd leave it sealed but use as much polyfill inside as possible and make sure to have an equalizer to remove the lower end peaks in the response.

Midrange enclosure is very critical, so try to make it as well dampened as you can, and as large as you can. If it's playing music, put your hand on it. There should be no vibration when playing.

you are talking about the lotus 4" RM110 midrange right?


Yep...

[joms]

cant it fit on my current kickpanel? someone on another forum board said that the scans 12M would be a drop-in on my current kicks....

www.joms.net/caraudio

[blackreplica]

joms, as far as the scans go in my opinion, them and the seas lotus are very different in character/tradeoffs. Whilst the scan offers plenty of extension(both in low end as well as high end extension), it loses accuracy to quite a noticable degree as compared to the lotus. The lotus plays a far narrower range of freq(80Hz-2500Hz max with notch for the 6.5 incher, and i think about 4K max for the 4 incher, where the 7 inch scan probably works well from 50-60Hz to about 4KHz easily in-car and off axis) but in this range, scans cannot approach the raw detail and cleanness of the lotus. So which speaker is best for you depends on which set of tradeoffs suit you best. Another downside of the lotus, unless you have some processing ability and time and experience, you will need the notch filter(for the 6.5), no exceptions. Scans are pretty damn smooth out of the box but IMO raw response with scan vs lotus( with notch) i would take the lotus any day of the week. Scans are just not my kind of speaker at all. Quite warm, but also veiled and 'boxy' when used in car, just doesnt have the lotus ultra-realism factor. Hope this helps, just my 0.02c

[joms]

thanks for the reply. another concern im facing right now is tht ive learned recently that scans dont do too good with moisture. in this regard, im somewhat looking at the genesis absolut or the alpine F1.

would you know if the seas lotus can handle moisture? is the lotus designed for in car use?

[10K2HVN]

the Seas Lotus References woofers are basically Seas Excel woofers redesigned for the car environment.

-Closed voicecoil-chamber basket
-Coated magesium cone
-difference specs

just like the Alpine F1's are redesigned Rev's.. coated cone and difference specs as well...

[joms]

thanks for the reply.

oh by the way, is there any way to put a grill on the Seas Lotus RM110? Has anyone done this? its a MUST that i use a grill or some type of protection as its sure that my mids in the kickpanels will get kicked by someone sooner or later.

[joms]

i finally decided to get the lotus. it will be shipped tomorrow =)

now its time to research on the enclosure of the mids. there are currently 2 trend of thoughts, 1 is to completely seal it and fill it with polyfill and next is to create an enclosure that will leak to the carpet.....

time to hit the SEARCH button! =)

[npdang]

Opening up the back allows the air to escape out through the sides. The carpet behind the speaker does almost nothing to "absorb" the rear wave energy. So it will definitely help to flatten the low end response in your kicks, but it may affect the response in other areas as well.

[10K2HVN]

doesnt polyfill and/or eggcrate foam to help with that..?

[npdang]

Not really... when you consider that most kicks are around .05 cf or less... best you could do is to line it with non-hardening modelling clay to make it as non resonant as possible.

[joms]

Opening up the back allows the air to escape out through the sides. The carpet behind the speaker does almost nothing to "absorb" the rear wave energy. So it will definitely help to flatten the low end response in your kicks, but it may affect the response in other areas as well.

so i guess it will definitely be better to seal it and just fill it up with polyfill right? questions though

a) where do i place the clay? on the face where the speakers will be mounted only? or should i line the entire enclosure including the sides and rear?

b) should i create the mid enclosure separate from the tweeter enclosure? or should i open up the chamber behind the tweeter so that it will be part of the mid's enclosure and thereby making the mid's enclosure bigger - but the shape wont be squarish anymore (anyway the tweeter is enclosed by itself so it wont get affected by the backwaves of the mids. tweeter = hiquphone OWII).

[npdang]

I wouldn't say better, just a different set of tradeoffs.

For the clay, line the entire kick. I'd also try to get the most volume as I can out of it, so connect it with the tweeter pod.

[joms]

when you say line the whole kick with clay, you mean id put it all over in a way that it would look like an enclosure of clay? such that i would cover all the parts? front, sides, back?

this is it right? sorry for my ignorance.

[10K2HVN]

i think he meant to line all the inside walls with clay..

[joms]

ok got it. now what do you use to make the clay stick to the fiberglass? it is fiberglass you use to make the enclosure right?

[npdang]

It just sticks ... mash it good :)

[10K2HVN]

the monster mash...? :P

[joms]

ah k. i was afraid that if i dont put glue or something, it will eventually fall in a couple of years, specially those which are placed on the upper part as it is upside down.

hmmm another question. if i use sealed enclosure for the mids, do you create a small hole where the speaker wire gets inside the enclosure? or do you place a binding post/speaker terminal in the enclosure (much like those found in a subwoofer box)

[10K2HVN]

you can do that or drill a small hole that fits the wire then seal it up with some silicon or something...

[rock]

Hello to all on this board, it seems very helpful and practical reading in there, so keep it clean :) Sorry for my bad English also :(

Hey joms, it looks like we have bretty same type of install, 3-way up in front. You use 7" Revelator midbasses I see, so do I, but not exactly :D
I see you don`t have any result right now. What kind of enclousure you use sealed or vented?

Now there is my problem :) I plan to rebuid all my sound system in car, also a new dash from MDF and fiber, to get a maximum SQ
I use SS Revelator speakers anyway - tweeter comes R2904/70005, midrange comes 12M/4631G00 and midbass comes.... :?: I have two ways to go with midbasses, I`m with dilemma which size midbass elements I should choose 15W4531 or 18W4531
The car interior (dash) is not so big as any american cars, so I guess the 18W4531 is bit big to fit my dash, it more easyer to install 15W
The overall layout of dash comes similar like Steven Head`s Honda
I think I`m able to build sealed enclosure about 10 liters. This volume is perfect for 15w4531 I think and small for 18w4531. Of course I use
10" XLS subwoofer under the dash, near the passenger driver legs
So what to do? To go with bigger (and higher sensitive 90dB) midbasses or smaller speakers? All your opinions are very very velcome :)

This is not my car of course, but it explains the place where do I plan install midbasses. The place where board computer buttons and vent holes locates, 12M4631 midranges up to dash and tweeters up to pillars
http://www.stilo.org/fiatstilo/Gallery/Interieur/interieur_01.jpg

My car
http://www.sounddomain.com/id/rockstilo