edead picture. (Rudeboy?)

[MidnightCE]

Here you go. I was taking my car apart to run new wiring, and found this:


Details:

Surface: Painted steel, covered in Edead liquid damping
Prep: Surface prepped with alcohol

What you're looking at is just a driveshaft tunnel, AND a heat shield was installed underneath it _before_ the deadening was applied to protect the interior from exhaust heat.


http://sky92x.com/fail.jpg


Notice where it's just plain coming off, both from being attached to other edead, and simply the backing coming undone.

I sent this image to Milne and asked for a partial refund. We'll see what happens.

[89grand]

I sent this image to Milne and asked for a partial refund. We'll see what happens.

Prediction:

You will be told that you installed it incorrectly, be accused of having motives and a hater, and will be banned from their forum.:o



I got banned from their forum recently just because I mentioned I had some peeling, but wasn't sure if it had gotten any worse because I can't see it under my door panels.

I'm almost afraid to pull my door panels back off, God knows what it looks like now. If it wasn't so hot outside I'd do it today, but I'm going to have to wait a few weeks at least.

[minitruck_freq]

it will be a cold day in hell before Ben admits to selling crap. IF he even replies, you MUST post it. ;) im curious to see what his lame excuse is.

[CGG318]

Which version of edead is it?

[Kenny Bania]

I think the problem here is that you took it out of the box and applied it. That particular product works better if you just leave it in the box and put it between the noise source and your ear. Silly guy........:rolleyes:

























:D

[89grand]

Which version of edead is it?

The version that sucks!:D

Mine is eDead v1² and that's what those pics looks like too. eDead v1², you know, the good stuff.:rolleyes:

[89grand]

I've got an idea, I still have some eDead v1², I mean eShit v1² left over, still on the roll and it's been inside my house. I think I'm going to run down to Home Depot and by a few pieces of flashing material then I'm going to come home and put the eDead v1² on the flashing and just hang them outside for a while and see what happens to it. I'll post pics documenting this whole affair.

[Kenny Bania]

I have some of the original eDead from like 4-5 years ago still rocking out in my car. I tried to remove some of it the other day and it was NOT going anywhere. The aluminum backing came off before the mat did. So FWIW, it doesn't ALL fall off for everyone. But I still would shop elsewhere for deadening.

[89grand]

I don't have it actually falling off, it seems to stick, but the mylar backing is coming off the butyl. And that still sucks.

[CGG318]

The version that sucks!:D

Mine is eDead v1² and that's what those pics looks like too. eDead v1², you know, the good stuff.:rolleyes:

Can the O.P. confirm this? I got a roll of extra gooey BXT for the most important parts (front doors) and I'll use whatever I have left over where ever I can. But I also have a roll of V1SE for whatever I can't cover with the bxt.

[MidnightCE]

its the thinnest 45mil material.

[Rudeboy]

I'll be very interested in the response you get. Funny thing is that I wouldn't put mat on top of liquid, I'd do it the other way since the surface of cured liquid is rough and porous. Problem is, ED has a video that recommends doing exactly what you did. Should not even come close to being the difference between success and failure.

Your photo seems to support my theory that the strength of the curl in the facing material exceeds the strength of the adhesive bond. In one place the facing has pulled away from the adhesive, in the others, the whole thing has peeled away from the substrate. That tight curl is exactly what I saw when I removed the adhesive from a piece. I'm guessing it will be pretty easy to get the rest off :)

[Rudeboy]

I've got an idea, I still have some eDead v1², I mean eShit v1² left over, still on the roll and it's been inside my house. I think I'm going to run down to Home Depot and by a few pieces of flashing material then I'm going to come home and put the eDead v1² on the flashing and just hang them outside for a while and see what happens to it. I'll post pics documenting this whole affair.

That's pretty much all I did - put some strips of a few different products on so steel and threw it in my trunk for a little more than a day - 90°F+ for the single afternoon it was out there. Brought it in and the eDead v1² was both separating from itself and pulling away from the substrate. Definitely doesn't take much time or heat to bring it to its knees. No testing or QC FTL. At .3 lbs/ft², it is hardly worth the effort. Of course you could be forgiven for thinking otherwise with ED employees making posts like this:

Hello guys,

My name is Alex, I work for Elemental Designs.

Both of our mat products have switched to a butyl based core, with a mylar backing. This allows for better adhersion, and the mylar is easier to use, it doesnt cut your hands and allows for more mass of the actual deadener.

Anybody have any theories about how Mylar allows for better adhersion and allows for more mass for the actual deadener? That last point is a real winner.

[Genxx]

Rudeboy-So if you go liquid over deadener and then decide to add later what are your options. You know sometimes when you think its good with 2 layers of BXT then go back and wish you had done 3 or 4 because your anal, like myself. I was going to spectrum then the BXT. Guess you could add more spectrum instead of BXT if you did mat then liquid. Ok give me some more options.

Yes, I just realized I kinda answered my own question. :D

[Boostedrex]

That's shitty! Especially in that location. It's not like the tranny tunnel on a Vette is the hottest place in the world anyway.

I'm also curious to see what the answer from eD will be.

[89grand]

Originally Posted by alexlindeman on ToyotaNation
Hello guys,

My name is Alex, I work for Elemental Designs.

Both of our mat products have switched to a butyl based core, with a mylar backing. This allows for better adhersion, and the mylar is easier to use, it doesnt cut your hands and allows for more mass of the actual deadener.


I have an idea how the mylar could have better adhersion.

The mylar is so light that it won't pull the the rest of the "deadener" off of whatever it's on. I agree it's easier to use, initially, that is until you have to pull it the rest of the way off and replace it with something that doesn't suck.

[internecine]

just peel the mylar off and add your own tinfoil layer

[Infinity]

I wonder why there is such inconsistency. I have my car loaded with V1se2 and liquid (3 gallons of liquid, 3 rolls of se2) and I have not one bad spot. It's been 100+ here for 3 weeks.

[89grand]

just peel the mylar off and add your own tinfoil layer

That's kind of hard to do when you have it layered in smaller pieces. The real problem is no one should have to do that. Other thing too, since I have no confidence in the mylar, I don't have much in their "butyl" either.

I'm just going to have to pull if off and use something that works.:mad:

[Rudeboy]

Rudeboy-So if you go liquid over deadener and then decide to add later what are your options. You know sometimes when you think its good with 2 layers of BXT then go back and wish you had done 3 or 4 because your anal, like myself. I was going to spectrum then the BXT. Guess you could add more spectrum instead of BXT if you did mat then liquid. Ok give me some more options.

Yes, I just realized I kinda answered my own question. :D

There really is a limit to how many layers of vibration damper are going to do anything more for you - anal or not :) Once tapping on the panel doesn't excite any resonance, you are there. If you are bothered by a noise source like an exhaust or tires coming through the area you deadened, you need a barrier. In any case, I like to lay down a few layers of closed cell foam.

The benefit of laying several coats of liquid on top of a layer or more of mat is pretty theoretical. The idea is that due to their different consistencies, they are optimized for slightly different frequencies. I have no idea if this works or not and I've tried it. I didn't do it so much out of compulsiveness as out of curiosity and opportunity. I had done my car with mat and cc foam and was very happy with it. Then manufacturers started sending me products to look at for SDS. Some sent quite a bit. First thing I did was add another layer of 2 additional brands of mat. Then the liquids started to arrive, so I put down a bunch of that. I've got crazy amounts of sound deadener in my car. Way more than it would make sense to use except that I was really interested in how they were to apply and how durable they were in use.

Did the same thing with my GF's car. I hate to waste stuff, so if it was good, it ended up in a car. Did adding all of that on top of my original job make any difference? Probably is the best I can do. It is certainly one tightly knit together structure, but I honestly can't tell you how much improvement there was. I can tell you the trim over the door sill is bulging a little bit :)

Either way, this is a good reason not to glue foam down on the floor. You will be glad you didn't if you decide to add more products. Still wouldn't go mat on top of liquid.

[Rudeboy]

just peel the mylar off and add your own tinfoil layer

That's kind of hard to do when you have it layered in smaller pieces. The real problem is no one should have to do that. Other thing too, since I have no confidence in the mylar, I don't have much in their "butyl" either.

I'm just going to have to pull if off and use something that works.:mad:

The adhesive strength of the v1² is markedly less than that of the v1SE². As you can see in MidnightCE's photo, the adhesive has let go in several places.

[Genxx]

I remember our barrier discussion with B-squad about the VB3.5 and lead. Gotta another question for you. Let say we do 2 layers BXT, Liquid Over that then the ensolite lead sandwich in the doors. Is it good to use the ensolite lead sandwich in the door or just the fire wall and floor area? I know we are off topic here so if you want to responde over where me, you and FoxPro5 where talking thats cool to or maybe we can start a new thread here about it.

Thanks and sorry we are getting off topic.

[Rudeboy]

I remember our barrier discussion with B-squad about the VB3.5 and lead. Gotta another question for you. Let say we do 2 layers BXT, Liquid Over that then the ensolite lead sandwich in the doors. Is it good to use the ensolite lead sandwich in the door or just the fire wall and floor area? I know we are off topic here so if you want to responde over where me, you and FoxPro5 where talking thats cool to or maybe we can start a new thread here about it.

Thanks and sorry we are getting off topic.

Honestly don't know how well it will work in the door. For one thing, proximity to the window is working against you. For another, Since you already have three surfaces to work with - inner door, outer door, door card, you may not be adding much.

[Genxx]

Very good point. Was not taking the glass into considerations and the multiple layers of the door. Thanks

[Rudeboy]

I wonder why there is such inconsistency. I have my car loaded with V1se2 and liquid (3 gallons of liquid, 3 rolls of se2) and I have not one bad spot. It's been 100+ here for 3 weeks.

I don't know why, but v1² and v1SE² are very different. Both adhesive and facing.

[sundownz]

I don't know why, but v1² and v1SE² are very different. Both adhesive and facing.

Yep, agreed. I too have used alot of V1SE^2 in two cars and none of it has fallen off, peeled, or anything like that. I have also SEEN V1^2 falling off like crazy in a vehicle locally.

[$NotEnough$]

In my old car, I used 2 layers of V1^2 in the trunk, trunk lid, and behind the license plate....every 2 weeks, I would notice rattling again because the stuff kept on peeling off. I even used their roller and cleaned the surface thoroughly to stick it on. Is the paint on stuff as bad?

[MidnightCE]

In my old car, I used 2 layers of V1^2 in the trunk, trunk lid, and behind the license plate....every 2 weeks, I would notice rattling again because the stuff kept on peeling off. I even used their roller and cleaned the surface thoroughly to stick it on. Is the paint on stuff as bad?

Paint on stuff has not peeled anywhere I've put it. B ut I wonder - is it pointless?

[Rudeboy]

Paint on stuff has not peeled anywhere I've put it. B ut I wonder - is it pointless?

Is what pointless?

[Infinity]

Yep, agreed. I too have used alot of V1SE^2 in two cars and none of it has fallen off, peeled, or anything like that. I have also SEEN V1^2 falling off like crazy in a vehicle locally.

Ah, I see. I wasn't trying to see the same product. I got the "good" stuff. At least it won't ooze from behind panels like my old FatMat did.:(

[MidnightCE]

Is what pointless?

The liquid deadener.

[Rudeboy]

The liquid deadener.

It isn't pointless, just slightly less effective than mat since it doesn't have a constraining layer (I'm guessing :) A reason people sometimes think it is ineffective is because they put it on much too thinly. It needs to be at least as thick as a mat to work as well and that means several coats to build it up. If you just paint on a coat or two, it won't do much at all.

The ED liquids don't seem terrible, but they also don't seem to be as sophisticated as SS Spectrum, Lizard Skin and even though I've never seen it, I assume Cascade's products fall into the higher quality group, based on their other products. Interestingly, the liquid eDeads have a water content that is quite a bit higher than the others - even though they are cheap by wet volume, they aren't any cheaper when cured than the others.

[DIYMA]

IMO the liquid dampers can be just as effective as the mat dampers, but they usualy work on different frequencies.
The best way is to use the Mat inside the car, with the liquid in the areas that you can't reach with the mat.
Then go outside the car and use the water based polymer on the reverse side of the panels.
This will sandwich the sheets metal and insure that the majority of the sound spectrum is covered.

Hope that helps

ANT
www.secondskinaudio.com

[Megalomaniac]

4 months..any response from Milne?

[dbTroy]

SECOND SKIN FTMFW!

[Rudeboy]

4 months..any response from Milne?
Not that I'm aware of. I bumped this topic a month or two ago to see if any of the people offered support by mandos ever saw any action, but I never heard a word.

[tcguy85]

well i hope my V1SE^2 holds up. i have some in my doors and was planning on doing my rear quarter panels, hatch, and trunk floor with it.

[Rudeboy]

well i hope my V1SE^2 holds up. i have some in my doors and was planning on doing my rear quarter panels, hatch, and trunk floor with it.

No indication that v1SE² will fall off - just not likely to be very effective with that cheesy Mylar.

[CCSS]

If you buy anything from eD

Your r eDarted.

Love ya Ben!!!

HAHAHHAAHHAAAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHA:D

[Megalomaniac]

well i hope my V1SE^2 holds up. i have some in my doors and was planning on doing my rear quarter panels, hatch, and trunk floor with it.

No indication that v1SE² will fall off - just not likely to be very effective with that cheesy Mylar.

Although you car might catch fire and burn to the ground :o

[haibane]

While I have no complains about their products, the way they conduct their forums drives me nuts and I will never buy another ED product again because no matter how much of their stuff I have sold to people or had influence on selling to people, they still like to ban me and not tell me why or give me a warning after being there since day 1.

[Rudeboy]

Although you car might catch fire and burn to the ground :o

That is true. Butyl will burn. Not only does an aluminum foil facing add rigidity, enhance the vibration damping and barrier qualities, but it also makes the installed product all but impossible to ignite. The Mylar stuff eDead uses? Not so much - but hey, that choice shaves a few pennies per ft² allowing ED to maintain a higher profit margin AND make less effective products look like good values.

[kimokalihi]

I just skimmed over that but I didn't see any repsonse from ben. Was there a response?

[Rudeboy]

I just skimmed over that but I didn't see any repsonse from ben. Was there a response?

No, Mr. Milne only posts on ICIX these days. That way when he is called out he simply has the thread deleted and the poster banned. We are waiting for responses from those who where promised help by mandos (Chris).

[Octopus Jonny]

Mylar backing is fine....DUUHHHH

http://www.icixsound.com/vb/showthread.php?t=45984

Probably one of the worst threads I've bothered to read in a loooong time.

[avaxis]

i'm curious about something.. why do people buy edead given the reviews by Rudeboy and horror stories shared in various forums? thread starter? i'm wondering what's the *magic* in eD's A&P's campaign that their crap manage to sell.

[Rudeboy]

Mylar backing is fine....DUUHHHH

http://www.icixsound.com/vb/showthread.php?t=45984

Probably one of the worst threads I've bothered to read in a loooong time.

Show me a single post on ICIX that doesn't make you grateful for the existence of this forum. :) That said, it's nice to see fewer and fewer people just swallowing the ED line, even in that controlled environment. Kudos to Mandos for correctly citing CLVED as an important concept. I'm glad to see he is looking in to this stuff but it isn't reflected in their products. I have a mental list of sound deadening companies that have a solid history of poor quality products and dishonest representations of those products. I can't see why ED shouldn't be on that list. Failing to test products before selling them only reinforces that inclination.

Googling "constrained layer viscoelastic damping" is the best way to get tp the physics involved. Only a few people in that thread came close to getting that right. It's incontrovertible that aluminum foil is going to have better barrier properties than Mylar, but how much can be debated.

The ignorance that really makes me sad in that thread is the bit about the upholstery burning faster than butyl adhesive. The days when a dropped cigarette could easily result in a vehicle engulfing fire are long gone.

Go ahead and ignite a piece of butyl adhesive sound deadener. The exposed adhesive burns and continues to burn until completely consumed. I'd much rather have a decent layer of aluminum foil between the inflammable material and oxygen than an inflammable plastic skin. Crazy how far people are willing to go to kiss some ass over there.

[speakerboy]

Crazy how far people are willing to go to kiss some ass over there.

They're just trying not to get banned. As someone who was on soundillusions.net when Ben and eDuh first got started, it really pains me to see how a company that treats so many customers the way that they do can keep operating. The ONLY thing keeping them going is their forum and all of the forum boners over there.

[tcguy85]

wow i thought ED was just hated by the people over at caraudio.com but i guess it's here too. so i should use raamat for the rest of my deadening needs or second skin?

[speakerboy]

They are both good products and they both give excellent customer service. In fact, secondskin gave kudos to rick (raamaudio) for a quality product.

[frootloops]

Wow! People are still buying eDs stuff and are shocked and dumbstruck when it fails... :rolleyes:

No need to comment on or bash eDs stuff, it's better just to let their products speak for themselves. And just like the saying goes (we've all heard it), you get what you pay for.

[Megalomaniac]

it seems like eD relies on peoples ignorance for business...?




Will an average person notice a difference in a car between something with a rigid constraining layer vs. a more pliable one? I dunno.

[frootloops]

it seems like eD relies on peoples ignorance for business...?

That and I think price point. If you can make a super cheap product and offer it for less then everybody else can, it will sell, even if it's crap. Add that to your target audience that consists of people on a fairly low dispensable income and you have yourself a sustainable company.

I really think a lot of people look at it like this:

"I can get 80 sq. ft. of "X" for $130, or for $160 I can get 36 sq. ft. of "Y"... hmm that's twice the amount of product for $30 less. Even if it works half as good as the more expensive stuff, I'll have twice as much so I can just double up wherever I want."

[Rudeboy]

it seems like eD relies on peoples ignorance for business...?

That quote from Mandos is kind of funny. If the layer is pliable, it is not a "constraining" layer at all - there needs to be more rigidity in the facing material than in the adhesive or there is no constraint. I've taken to using the term "facing" layer precisely because of products like eDead. They can make any statements they like about the benefits of their product's configuration. The reality is that they are selling flashing tape as sound deadener and flashing tape doesn't need a protective facing since it will be sealed inside a building. It just needs to be waterproof and to seal around nail holes.

I had my first direct confrontation with ED and their enthusiastic customers when I became involved in a thread on CAF that linked to another on ICIX in which Chris and Milne were displaying a video that pretended to be consistent with the methodology (term used loosely :)) I had used for SDS. By compressing several hours worth of heating into a few MINUTES, they were suggesting that their soon to be released product was going to be at the top of the heap for heat tolerance. I pointed this out and pointed out that despite several emails informing them of the error, they had continued to overstate the mass/area of their then asphalt sound deadener by 25%.

These were facts but a great many people chose to attack me for my "blind hatred" of either the company or Milne himself. Mandos stepped in and explained that the specs were off because he had weighed the product, in the shipping carton, on the core - using a broken bathroom scale. I never found that a plausible explanation since the inflated numbers exactly matched the accurate numbers for competing products. Mandos' position was that he was incompetent but not dishonest.

What astonished me was the ready acceptance of this explanation by the ED fans. This would be illegal in a B&M or through the mail - if I buy a pound of apples, it had better weigh 16 ounces. They attacked me and insisted that there was nothing wrong with any of this except my irrational response. I pretty much decided they were some sort of cult.

This experience led me take a very close look at ED and their practices, history, etc. and I have a few theories. ED was probably the first company in this market sector to make really effective use of the Web. They leveraged this tool to create the impression that they were larger than they were and to make customers feel as if ED was a personal friend. This led people to believe that they were participating in a special transaction through which they were getting top of the line equipment for flea market prices. ED encourages an us versus them tension that frankly, plays very well with adolescent boys.

So that's pretty much their strategy. Create a closed world in which negative statements aren't tolerated and a combination of ignorant people and those believing Ben Milne is their personal friend combine to dramatically exaggerate the virtues of ED products while ridiculing those stupid enough to waste their money on the competition. Some of that was evident in the thread linked here. Exaggerate the role the people there have in "developing" products and propagate a slightly delusional and paranoid view of the world in which Mr. Milne and company are magically engineer elves who draw sub woofer designs on napkins and the rest of the world hates them for their brilliance and altruism.

That's my take.

[Rudeboy]

I really think a lot of people look at it like this:

"I can get 80 sq. ft. of "X" for $130, or for $160 I can get 36 sq. ft. of "Y"... hmm that's twice the amount of product for $30 less. Even if it works half as good as the more expensive stuff, I'll have twice as much so I can just double up wherever I want."

That same logic keeps people buying Peel & Seal. Doesn't seem to matter how many times I tell them that $100 worth of a quality product is going to be more effective than $100 worth of Peel & Seal with much less effort and none of the problems. Just can't get past the price per square foot.

[Sassmastersq]

my edead v1se asphault deadener actually rotted... still stuck down goo since I used a heat gun and a torch to apply it, but the aluminum backing rotted right off leaving large black areas

[DIYMA]

Mylar backing is fine....DUUHHHH

http://www.icixsound.com/vb/showthread.php?t=45984

Probably one of the worst threads I've bothered to read in a loooong time.

I am on page 4 of that thread and so far, only one person knows what they are talking about. Thewacokid has it right, but seems like everyone there has been taught sound deadening 101 by ED.

So many problems with that thread I won't even start.

ANT

[DIYMA]

I just finished reading the thread.

I think it is time for me to start producing speakers and amps...

[frootloops]

I think it is time me to start producing speakers and amps...

Why stop there? Get your hands on some cheapo speaker, power and RCA cables from China and have yourself your very own stereo shoppe! ;)

[haibane]

What do most of you guys use anyhow? SS Dynamat or what?

[DonovanM]

What do most of you guys use anyhow? SS Dynamat or what?

Since ditching eD and never going back, I've got a few hundred square feet of RAAMmat BXT down in my car now, and a bulk pack of Cascade VBMax (Courtesy of B-Squad/VMSP) just came in the mail.

[Rudeboy]

Cascade, Dynamat Xtreme, RAAMmat, Second Skin are all worthy of consideration.

[Megalomaniac]

Cascade, Dynamat Xtreme, RAAMmat, Second Skin are all worthy of consideration.

I am considering Hushmat right now, only because I need that black color in certain areas. It still uses foil right?

[Rudeboy]

I am considering Hushmat right now, only because I need that black color in certain areas. It still uses foil right?

It's some sort of painted plastic/foil composite that is very thin and light. That's why I didn't include it. The paint isn't supper durable IMO. If I needed black, I'd paint aluminum faced deadener after installation or use Cascade - their foil is black anodized and seems much more durable.Hushmat has a good quality adhesive though.

[Megalomaniac]

It's some sort of painted plastic/foil composite that is very thin and light. That's why I didn't include it. The paint isn't supper durable IMO. If I needed black, I'd paint aluminum faced deadener after installation or use Cascade - their foil is black anodized and seems much more durable.Hushmat has a good quality adhesive though.

So Hushmat uses mylar too? or its just mix? What are the downsides to this composition?

[Rudeboy]

So Hushmat uses mylar too? or its just mix? What are the downsides to this composition?

I don't think it is Mylar. I'm pretty sure it is black paint on foil that has a plastic layer between it and the adhesive. I'd have to dig out the samples to be sure. The main thin is that the foil is very thin and light meaning less tension between the foil and the adhesive and less effective barrier. Pretty thick adhesive layer though. Probably fine, I just like to see a thicker foil layer. Hushmat's is 2.5 mils including the paint. Most others are 3 or 4 mils for just foil.

Something I noticed when I soaked the sample in mineral spirits to remove the adhesive, some of the paint came off too. I'd be a little concerned about delamination if you use multiple layers, but I have no evidence of this nor has anybody omplained about - that I'm aware of.

[DIYMA]

I don't think it is Mylar. I'm pretty sure it is black paint on foil that has a plastic layer between it and the adhesive. I'd have to dig out the samples to be sure. The main thin is that the foil is very thin and light meaning less tension between the foil and the adhesive and less effective barrier. Pretty thick adhesive layer though. Probably fine, I just like to see a thicker foil layer. Hushmat's is 2.5 mils including the paint. Most others are 3 or 4 mils for just foil.

Something I noticed when I soaked the sample in mineral spirits to remove the adhesive, some of the paint came off too. I'd be a little concerned about delamination if you use multiple layers, but I have no evidence of this nor has anybody omplained about - that I'm aware of.


I got a hold of some HM recently.
I did not run the tests that Don does, but I did notice that the foil was thinner than I expected considering how good it is supposed to be.
The thicker foil is, the better the results as Don pointed out.
I was shocked to see that it was thinner than Dynamat Extreme and Raammat.
The butyl was pretty impressive though.

I also kind of like the black foil. Been thinking of going this route for Damplifier and Damplifier Pro.

ANT

[Megalomaniac]

I got a hold of some HM recently.
I did not run the tests that Don does, but I did notice that the foil was thinner than I expected considering how good it is supposed to be.
The thicker foil is, the better the results as Don pointed out.
I was shocked to see that it was thinner than Dynamat Extreme and Raammat.
The butyl was pretty impressive though.

I also kind of like the black foil. Been thinking of going this route for Damplifier and Damplifier Pro.

ANT

dont lie, you REALLY LIKE IT :p

I just hope you figure out a way to utilize it being black without adding plastic to the mix. plus I thought nothing sticks to plastic? How are they using in between the butyl and the foil :confused:

when i saw my friends Hushmat on his trunk lid He said after a day of it being applied or so it turn s pretty much rock hard...which i felt it was dam stiff. i guess thats a good thing if you want a certain shape?

*black is hush, the silver is raa
http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q151/Megalomaniac1989/October_27th_2007_DFW_Build_Day/IMG_0579.jpg

[DIYMA]

dont lie, you REALLY LIKE IT :p

I just hope you figure out a way to utilize it being black without adding plastic to the mix. plus I thought nothing sticks to plastic? How are they using in between the butyl and the foil :confused:

when i saw my friends Hushmat on his trunk lid He said after a day of it being applied or so it turn s pretty much rock hard...which i felt it was dam stiff. i guess thats a good thing if you want a certain shape?



I did in fact like, it. I was just not impressed with the thinn foil. I do like the bacl though.

The only thing in sound deadening industry that will not adhere to plastic is water based vibration coatings.

Also, Hushmat is a butyl product. It will not get hard over any period of time unles sit is subjected to very high amount of heat for an extended period of time in which case the voilitiles will dissipate and the product will become brittle and useless. So for it to become "rock hard" doesnt seem to add up.

ANT
www.secondskinaudio.com

[DIYMA]

What is RAA?
Raammat perhaps?

From that pic, it does not look like Raammat.

ANT
www.secondskinaudio.com

[Megalomaniac]

What is RAA?
Raammat perhaps?

From that pic, it does not look like Raammat.

ANT
www.secondskinaudio.com

im pretty sure its raamat i will double check tomorrow, i will ask my friend. when i said rock hard i probably should have clarified if i push down on it its real stiff but if i push down hard its still soft underneath. kinda hard to explain. but yes i like the black too. I hope its on your too do list to "improve" damplifier.

[frootloops]

My question is how would you get a black foil layer without the worry of delamination between the foil and the black color? Would you have to look at a anodisation process to insure the black wont come off? Because we all know what paint and other similar coatings do when exposed to heat, they kinda like to curl up and peel off.

[Rudeboy]

My question is how would you get a black foil layer without the worry of delamination between the foil and the black color? Would you have to look at a anodisation process to insure the black wont come off? Because we all know what paint and other similar coatings do when exposed to heat, they kinda like to curl up and peel off.

Cascade's appears to be anodized. It keeps you from getting black hands from the aluminum, but I think it is just to be different more than anything else. Has to add to the cost and doesn't really add any functional benefit that I can see. Let's say it is the last thing I would worry about.

[sick02sentra]

great, and im running ED in my car.... all i see is negative responses from people experiences with them. *groan*
i do say this though, they ship HELLA fast

[el_chupo_]

great, and im running ED in my car.... all i see is negative responses from people experiences with them. *groan*
i do say this though, they ship HELLA fast


Try Anthony (ANT, DIYMA here on the boards) at second skin.

Same day when before noon for me, and does his best to get it all in one box.

Plus, it works.

[sick02sentra]

oh im going to be using second skin for deadener, my sub setup is all elemental designs though. i was reading another thread about them on here and ll i saw was bad things. i havent installed them in my car yet, but i will let you guys know when i do it.. oh yeah i heard second skin is the sh** from a friend of mine, i guess its pretty big in phoenix huh?

[DIYMA]

Not too big in Phoenix, but decent..
Call me
623-533-8193

ANT

[Rudeboy]

oh im going to be using second skin for deadener, my sub setup is all elemental designs though. i was reading another thread about them on here and ll i saw was bad things. i havent installed them in my car yet, but i will let you guys know when i do it.. oh yeah i heard second skin is the sh** from a friend of mine, i guess its pretty big in phoenix huh?

Quite a few people here run and enjoy their subs and amps. I wouldn't worry about it. Current problems seem to be related to deadener and their wacky, wacky ways :)

[BlueSQ]

Mylar backing is fine....DUUHHHH

http://www.icixsound.com/vb/showthread.php?t=45984

Probably one of the worst threads I've bothered to read in a loooong time.


After reading part of that, I've come up with a good equation.

spl152db = douche

[Fiercetimbo17]

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o319/Fiercetimbo17/edeadfail.jpg

More edead failing, and this are on a plastic panel that did not get nearly as hot as the metal in my car, kinda has me worried to see it all now.
And incase you cannot tell this picture is the edead mylar backing separating from the "rubber"

[BlueSQ]

oh im going to be using second skin for deadener, my sub setup is all elemental designs though. i was reading another thread about them on here and ll i saw was bad things. i havent installed them in my car yet, but i will let you guys know when i do it.. oh yeah i heard second skin is the sh** from a friend of mine, i guess its pretty big in phoenix huh?

Quite a few people here run and enjoy their subs and amps. I wouldn't worry about it. Current problems seem to be related to deadener and their wacky, wacky ways :)

I actually use some of these products from E-dead, here's my take on it. I'm not seasoned like some of these people so take it with a grain of salt.

Amps: They serve their purpose. I have them in a fairly tight space, and they take my abuse just fine. Never had one go into protect. My Nine.1 runs my IDMAX just fine. I measured 132.5 db in a sealed enclosure SQ setup w/o cranking everything or burping it w/ 40hz test tone. I contribute the sound quality of my bass to that sub and enclosure however. What a performer. However, I used to use a Nine.2 for my tweeters. Now I use a Zapco Ref 350.2 (old school black). Zapco maintained the sound quality at higher volumes than the Nine.2 ever did. Symbols are simply a joy now, as is the lowest region of the tweeter (2.0 kHz). I also suspect a better sub amp would take more abuse to clip...but common, $220 shipped new w/ warranty? Watt for watt that was undeniably a good deal. I think Eng told me they really just rip off Clarions design, which kinda sucks.

Deadener: It's not as good as others out there. It's cheap though, and that drew me to it, especially because they offer a forum discount which I thought was very decent thing to do (granted it was probably aimed towards ICIX users...). Yes, the mylar peels at the edges, but I have this stuff in my engine bay and it hasnt moved. Doesnt get much hotter than that. It SUCKS trying to get it to stick to ABS plastic. You have to use a heat gun for that. I tried pulling off some of it off my floor and it took the hard shell layer of factory deadener right off with it, so it's adherence to a metal or rough surface I.M.O. is worth it's low price. Their liquid stuff is expensive and probably isn't worth the price. However, applying it to the door was one of the best things I've done. When it dries, it adds ridgidity to the surface, so the rap test is like tapping a rock. That would happen with any liquid deadener though.

Ensolite: Its .25" thick. It has its own adhesive backing which, when set, is strong enough to serve its purpose. I tried pulling some off, all it did was tear - adhesive side just stayed where it was. Other companies use .125" ensolite which is easier to work with but you need two layers to get what one layer Edead V4 provides. I dont know about how well it performs over other ensolite, I'd have to see some unbias testing. Again, forum discount here...

Speaker: Dunno, I run SEAS and ID :D

The only problem I had is they shipped to my billing address, not shipping, and charged me like $5 or $10 to have UPS change it. They never refunded the $....but I never followed up.

One thing I gotta say though is their shipping prices suck. Talk about a markup at the end...

[Rudeboy]

One thing I gotta say though is their shipping prices suck. Talk about a markup at the end...

I was a little shocked when I ordered a few ft² for testing and shipping was something like $12.

[GlasSman]

eD seems like a shady company when they want to be....and stand up when it serves their purpose.

I have to hand it them for having a company that is so visible on the net....but they really should take that opportunity to be a cut above not the opposite.

[sick02sentra]

when i ordred my subs and amps, i had no problem with shipping, it was free. in fact it got here faster than the infinitys from crutchfield did. Ant, my cousin will be calling you from out there in az about the 'skin, i cant cuz im in iraq at the moment. ill give him your number.