Legatia 3" vs. Trius 3"

[npdang]

http://diymobileaudio.com/pics/3comp/comp1.JPG
http://diymobileaudio.com/pics/3comp/comp2.JPG
http://diymobileaudio.com/pics/3comp/comp3.JPG
http://diymobileaudio.com/pics/3comp/comp4.JPG

Frequency response, with the Legatia first:

http://diymobileaudio.com/pics/legatia3/legatiafr.JPG
http://diymobileaudio.com/pics/3comp/triusfr.JPG

The Trius has a more extended top end, and this is clearly audible on every song. In fact it even reproduces sibilant tracks effortlessly, which I've never heard from a cone midrange before :D You could also pretty much use it without a tweeter (albeit with narrowing dispersion above 5-10khz), which I wouldn't recommend for the Legatia. The small difference in efficiency of about ~1db between the drivers isn't really noticeable.

Non-linear distortion comparison, with the Legatia first:

200hz:
http://diymobileaudio.com/pics/legatia3/legatia200hzdist.JPG
http://diymobileaudio.com/pics/3comp/trius200hzdist.JPG

400hz:
http://diymobileaudio.com/pics/legatia3/legatia400hzdist.JPG
http://diymobileaudio.com/pics/3comp/trius400hzdist.JPG

600hz:
http://diymobileaudio.com/pics/legatia3/legatia600hzdist.JPG
http://diymobileaudio.com/pics/3comp/trius600hzdist.JPG

800hz:
http://diymobileaudio.com/pics/legatia3/legatia800hzdist.JPG
http://diymobileaudio.com/pics/3comp/trius800dist.JPG

2khz:

http://diymobileaudio.com/pics/legatia3/legatia2khzdist.JPG
http://diymobileaudio.com/pics/3comp/trius2khzdist.JPG

It's very easy to see that the Trius has significantly lower non-linear distortion than the Legatia. Second and third order distortion were generally at least -15db lower, and fourth order and higher products much lower as well. The tests were taken at about 96dbspl @1m. A fairly difficult level for such small drivers to produce full range.

Listening to a variety of tracks, I felt that vocals and saxaphone on the Legatia were heavy, congested, and when pushed hard the driver strained badly as compared to the Trius (although both drivers didn't offer near the dynamic capability and effortless reproduction of even a 4.5" driver). The Trius on the otherhand was very open, sweet, and more realistic sounding.

Keep in mind that the Legatia doesn't sound outright bad, like some Hi-Vi's I've tested in the past. Some people may even prefer the warmer, full bodied, huskier sound. In many ways it reminds me of the old Vifa classic drivers, with better top end extension.

[low]

wow. great review man. thanks.

[newtitan]

nice comparison, too bad those trius arent readily available in the US

dount theyd fit in my dash anyway lol

[WLDock]

Thanks for the review. I wondered about the Legatia and even considered buying a set to compare them myself.
Looks like I made a good choice in getting the TRIUS.

npdang,
I have been listening to the TRIUS connected to my home system and really would like to try some different tweeters with them.
Maybe the NEO3 tweeter?
What would be your choice on a nice tweeter to add to these?
On paper the TEC Planars kicking in at about 8KHz seems like it would make for a very nice match.
Will you be getting your TEC's direct from them?

[Scott Buwalda]

npdang-

PM sent. I eagerly await your response.

Bests,

Scott Buwalda

[Rbsarve]

Some notes on the Trius.

It was never intended to compete with bigger drivers. It was intended to compete with dome midranges. The DLS UR-2.5 to be specific. I wanted a driver that was able to cover a wider bandwith to allow flexibility, and dispite the distorsion increase I have to stress that they are very usable sub 800 hz. Infact our recommended in-car x-over frequency is well over 2 octaves lower then that: 160 Hz,> 18 dB/oct.

You do pay a penalty in added distorsion, but most listners still seems to prefer the coherence of one driver covering most of the vocal range, even with correctly time and amplitude aligned midbasses. So for you guys who have the Trius, please play around with x-over points and see what fit´s your installation!

And if you can fit a proper 4", like the Scan-speak 12M, that is the better choise! But small form factor drivers like the Trius gives you opportunities you didn´t have before!

[Scott Buwalda]

Rob:

I couldn't agree more. We have had great success using our Legatia's into the 140 Hz region. And despite the distortion on paper, the focussed imaging and staging provided from one set of drivers far outweighs potential pitfalls. All of the fundamental vocal cues through one pair of drivers really can't be beat...

Scott

[npdang]

Good points. If you are not comparing directly with a larger driver, the distortion is ofen unnoticeable to the untrained ear whereas other benefits maybe more readily apparent.

[bigwise1]

npdang, do you have any measurements of an ir3 for comparison?

[AzGrower]

Is there anyway to have some in car measurements, of both drivers? Then at least the data will be a tad bit more "realistic". As long as all testing parameters are maintained the same for both drivers, it should be a fair comparison.

[xencloud]

I think measuring in car would introduce too many differing variables...

[AzGrower]

I think measuring in car would introduce too many differing variables...

but would be more reliastic to explain/discuss real world data rather than an indoor testing arena. I may be mistaken, but both of these drivers are designed for car audio use...correct?

[npdang]

I want to compare the speakers themselves, not the listening environment or install. Essentially these are not "indoor measurements" which imply that a room of some sorts was being included, but rather "just the speaker by itself measurements".

In any case, there's no way an in car comparison would be able to capture the performance of every type of car and install... just mine. And, generally speaking in car measurements always make a driver look far worse than it really is.

So this way, you get a clear picture of how one driver stacks up against another without any confounding variables.

[PlanetGranite]

npdang, not sure how long it has been since you last listened to an ns3, but would you be able to say how the aura compares to either of these drivers?

[mitchyz250f]

Great question. I can't get the Trius and the Legatia seem too expensive for what they are. Don't have room for a dome. Looks like the NS3 may be my best choice until the DIYMA 3 arrives. If I cross the NS3 at 500-600Hz will they be more dynamic then? I assume they would be because now they can use the power to produce the higher notes which are less demanding. Then again I am ofter wrong.

[npdang]

I think the NS3's are a more detailed driver than any of these two, but colder and less forgiving. Still a very smooth sounding driver, with little coloration (as opposed to most hard cones). Efficiency is aweful though, almost to the point of being unusable. At 600hz you should be ok, but still sacrificing compared to a 4" mid.

[lightspeed]

I still think the Vifa MG10 is the way to go if you don't want to pop that much $$ for a mid. I am going to try the HiVi B3n first too see if I can even work a mid into my system. They are less than $10 ea.

[AJinFLA]

Why is there almost zero info other than the highly smoothed specs provided by TB for this driver? http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=264-842
No one seems interested in testing it, not even PE! Wish they would at least measure the on/off-axis FR and impedance curve as they do with some drivers.
Looks good on paper. Could give the Aura/Trius a run for the money, but who knows?

cheers,

AJ

[PlanetGranite]

There are a few posts about the 1335s over at diyaudio, and one posters opinion was that the 1231sh was the better 3". But yeah, unfortunately, no test results have been posted.

[werewolf]

Why is there almost zero info other than the highly smoothed specs provided by TB for this driver? http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=264-842
No one seems interested in testing it, not even PE! Wish they would at least measure the on/off-axis FR and impedance curve as they do with some drivers.
Looks good on paper. Could give the Aura/Trius a run for the money, but who knows?

cheers,

AJ
"A large motor featuring an underhung design plus shorting ring" realizes a whopping xmax of ... 0.5mm? Doesn't seem to be a typo ... the manufacturer's data sheet concurs.

I know xmax isn't everything, but it's hard to imagine this driver even playing in the same lower midrange game as Trius, Focal Be, Legatia, Aura, Jordan ...

Agree, disagree?

[kappa546]

looked at it before... only thing that worries me is its low xmax. i'd expect xovers at and above 200hz

[werewolf]

maybe TB specs their drivers ... ummm ... differently :confused:

[rutger j]

Mr werewolf...

I don´t think I´ve read or heard in what car and config Your Trius´s ended up in...I´m really interested of your opinion of them.
I meen, with four pair of them you should be able to do something "fun" with them... :D

Wasn´t someone talking about a pair of Legatia 3" in each kick at Scotts forum/bulletin board...??
Maybe you, Mr werewolf, beat them to it with a pair of Trius´s in your car kicks... :)

Sincerely
Rutger

[AJinFLA]

I think the xmax spec with an underhung motor like the TB can be a bit deceptive. The HiVi B3 has 3mm xmax right? Read on: http://www.partsexpress.com/projectshowcase/cynosure/driver.html
I still probably wouldn't use the TB under 300hz, but if your spl requirements are not too high it might suffice.
I still favor the Aura. Planet 10's mod has prompted me to reconsider my dormant idea I've had since I saw the NS3. Something like he ended up doing, but a bit different.
Anything like that without before/after on/off-axis FR is rather dubious IMHO.

cheers,

AJ

[AJinFLA]

I've almost forgotten it's been almost 7yrs since I've done anything to my front stage :blush: LOL.
http://www.jbl.com/car/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=GTO220&CheckProduct=Y
Still dumbfounded as to why JBL didn't update these. I think Ciare did one that was quite a bit bigger. I have ceased trying to fathom who manufacturers are aiming for with the stuff they put out these days, but it ain't my old a** ;) .
I'll roll my own if I have to, but c'mon now, somebody break the cookie cutter in half and do something remotely different. NP? Infinity? A 3" CMMD neo coax please. Anything but a 6" woofer (2+ feet from) a 1" tweeter and a "matching crossover" for goodness sake....
Oh, yeah, a $200 paper cone 3" mid...spare me... :p

cheers,

AJ

[bigwise1]

I've almost forgotten it's been almost 7yrs since I've done anything to my front stage :blush: LOL.
http://www.jbl.com/car/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=GTO220&CheckProduct=Y
Still dumbfounded as to why JBL didn't update these. I think Ciare did one that was quite a bit bigger. I have ceased trying to fathom who manufacturers are aiming for with the stuff they put out these days, but it ain't my old a** ;) .
I'll roll my own if I have to, but c'mon now, somebody break the cookie cutter in half and do something remotely different. NP? Infinity? A 3" CMMD neo coax please. Anything but a 6" woofer (2+ feet from) a 1" tweeter and a "matching crossover" for goodness sake....
Oh, yeah, a $200 paper cone 3" mid...spare me... :p

cheers,

AJ

how about an old school jbl dome and cone?
http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-JBL-T030-Pure-Titanium-Dome-Midrange-ORIGINAL-JBL_W0QQitemZ9710701535QQcategoryZ18800QQssPageNam eZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3780992080&ssPageName=MERCOSI_VI_ROSI_PR4_PCN_BIX

[DS-21]

I've almost forgotten it's been almost 7yrs since I've done anything to my front stage :blush: LOL.
http://www.jbl.com/car/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=GTO220&CheckProduct=Y

I've had a standing eBay watch on those for as long as I've known about them. None have popped up yet.

I have ceased trying to fathom who manufacturers are aiming for with the stuff they put out these days, but it ain't my old a** ;

People who can't hear and only care about brand names are the target market today, IMO. Which is why there's so little stuff in the car-fi market that's not junk and all of us have turned to DIY.

[newtitan]

just thought this pillar install was cool

found it over at the UK talk audio site

http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/gallery/data/500/medium/pod.JPG

[lightspeed]

I think the xmax spec with an underhung motor like the TB can be a bit deceptive. The HiVi B3 has 3mm xmax right? Read on: http://www.partsexpress.com/projectshowcase/cynosure/driver.html

Oh, thanks for that AJ. You know I actually had those in my cart until I swapped them for the HiVi. No biggie as they are all cheap, but i did go through a small nightmare debucking the HiVi's. :o

I'll try the TB as well after I get it all in.

[bigtube1]

Just thought I'd post my impressions of the Legatia 3 drivers here as they seem to have been described in this thread as a less than superb driver. I have found them to be quite superb in fact. I have no ties whatsoever to the company. I live in Boulder, CO and have never met or spoken to Scott B. before I purchased the Legatia 3's a few weeks ago.

About my experience: I am a 40-year-old audiophile veteran. I cut my teeth in car audio back in the early 90s with a/d/s gear. I've used Sony CDX-C910 and a C90 heads. Many different a/d/s amps including the two 860mx amps I currently own. Soundstream Ref amps. a/d/s 320i, Boston Pro, al-5 components, Morel Car. Dual a/d/s RS10 subs. Image Dynamics 12" sub.

About 1995 I moved into home audio and spent the last 11 years listening to and selling VERY esoteric hi-fi gear. I retailed AER(Lowther type) full-range drivers that cost $2000 per pair and up. I sold custom 32" hardwood horns from the Philippines used with those German AER drivers.

Longtime Colorado Audiophile Society members not only raved about the sound being the best they'd ever heard, they also purchased drivers and horns from me, replacing multi-thousand dollar speaker systems.

I've built over a half-dozen tube amps(mostly SET) from scratch, using the most expensive parts and impossible to find WWII Telefunken triodes.

Sources I've owned include:

Audio Aero Capitole MKII CD player(considered by some to still be the best available CD player) $8600retail

Vinyl front end:
VPI Aries extended, JMW memorial 12" arm, Transfiguration Temper Supreme Cartridge,
Lukaschek phono. Over $10K retail

Amps/preamps:
Numerous commercial and hard-core DIY custom built amps amd preamps including Bryston, Classe, Sunfire. 300B amps using NOS Western Electric tubes. 845 SET amps.
Telefunken RE604 SET mono-blocks.

Speakers:

Nearly every horn speaker and driver used by Altec in their VOTT line. I used to buy the systems from the theaters and build custom home systems with the parts. Also, TAD Alnico 4001 drivers($5k per pair) on Edgar Horns. I owned Dr. Edgars Seismic sub. You want to hear some good bass? Get one of these bad-boys if you can handle the size and looks...

I've owned and used as a reference speaker for nearly 10 years, the a/d/s L2030 studio monitors that were used by Telarc as their reference studio monitor. Many of the Telarc discs were mixed with this speaker and you can find that fact on some Telarc disc literature.

I have gone through dozens of other hi-end speaker systems in the last 11 years. I have attended numerous hi-fi shows and visited and listened to countless home Audiophile systems.

I have a pretty good idea of what constitutes good sound.

The Legatia 3 driver is a fantastic sounding driver.

I stumbled across Scotts website while doing some research on current car audio as I
was planning to build a new system for a new car. I saw some posts about the Leg 3's
and after some further research, decided that they were worth trying. In fact, I very much believe in using a wide-range mid driver as you can tell from my past speaker choices.

I purchased a pair of Legatia 3's about the 20th of last month. I saw this thread the next day and thought I had mad a mistake. It was a bit of a shock to the system in fact. After a bit of contemplation though, I figured something must be amiss. Still, I was very much considering canceling my order. That's how bad this thread made the driver look. I believe that to be an injustice to the driver and to Scott, who seems to be as honest and honorable a guy as one could hope to come across.

I trusted my instincts and later received and email from Scott guaranteeing my money back if I was anything less than thrilled with the drivers.

I set up my a/d/s 860mx amp, Sony CDX heads, and an Orbital deep-cycle marine battery in my main listening room.

I drug out one of my many monitor speaker systems. A custom Bandor 50mm module line array using 4 Bandor 50mm drivers per side.

I went back and forth between the Legatia 3'd and a single Bandor module in various configurations. With and without my Morel MDT38 tweeter modules. Full-range. With and without various home midbass drivers. Scan-speak 8544 Kevlar 7" woofers. a/d/s 5,6,7, and 8" drivers. My crossover points were limited due to the modules I have with the 860mx drivers but I do feel I was able to get a very good assessment of the Legatia 3's capabilities with what I had available to me.

I am by no means done evaluating the Legatia 3 drivers but at this point I can honestly say they are extremely fine sounding drivers that achieve much of what they were designed to acheive.

The sound they produce is sweet yet very detailed. Soundstaging is fantastic, as it should be. Vocals were absolutely gorgeous. They are very clear and open sounding throughout the midband and reach up into the treble very nicely. Though as it is recommended, you absolutely do need a tweeter for the very top end.

I did hear some loss of upper bass definition as compared to the ultra-detailed Bandors
but the added warmth and fullness the Leg 3's had over the Bandors made me not care. The Leg 3's have more breaking in to do so maybe the upper bass detail will improve. Maybe not. Again, I don't care as much considering the other benefits of the Leg 3's.

I do believe I could hear some of the distortions that are mentioned in this thread but they are NOT easy to hear. They are of a very non-offensive type as well. The distortion only presented itself during complex and/or dynamic passages. I could not cross any higher than 170hz@12db so I'm sure if you crossed higher and steeper, it will only get better. Still, I could listen at a fairly high clip at the 170hz/12db point... And my room is 23'x15'. In a car I'd need far less volume.

Depending on your installation, crossover points, amplifier power, listening levels, etc...
my guess is that a person with decent ears and tuning skills, could get the Leg 3's dialed to a point where any so called distortions were negligible and for all practical purposes impossible to hear.

My impression of the sonic character of the drivers is such that I have little doubt that they can be implemented into a car audio system to produce absolutely world class sound.

They may not be SPL kings but as far as SQ and Staging in a car, with it's difficult installation issues and the need for a wide-band SMALL driver are concerned, they seem to hit the bulls-eye IMHO.

[fearlessfly28]

thanks for your review bigtube

[newtitan]

yeah thats a VERY nice review, nice and detailed for a first post

hope you stick around and add some more off your opinions

[Finleyville]

yeah thats a VERY nice review, nice and detailed for a first post

hope you stick around and add some more off your opinions

I agree.

[npdang]

Great review and first post Bigtube. Definitely need more detailed reviews of that sort.

Although I will say audible distortion isn't just the sound "breaking up", but a shift in the pitch and tonality of the signal. If your ears aren't trained for it, it's much easier to hear using simple tones. As you turn up the volume the tone will audibly change in character and is quite easy to pick out without sounding *distorted* as is traditionally used.

[Thoraudio]

Got to hear a set of Legatia's today, and I've got to say that I'm impressed. Having a single point source is great for focus and clarity. They were a little light, but heck, it's a 3". Very transparent.

Not as full a sound as the WR's but were talking a big difference in cone area and mounting depth as well....

Good sounding speaker.

[Andy Jones]

Good to see you today Wes.

The legatia 3's he listened to were mine. No EQ, highpassed at 140hz, no low pass. Power received from a Punch 60ix (about 50 watts each), in a small sealed enclosure.

When I get them moved and in a free air setup, I'll bring them back. I'll also have additional power for them by then also. From initial testing, they sound better in the free air set up.

The WR's are impressive speakers. Unfortunately, I don't think I could get that enclosure in a vehicle without a plasma cutter :p Honestly, the WR's and the Brahma of Wes's I heard were the first Adire speakers I had the opportunity to listen to. Both sounded very good. If Wes ever gets motivated enough to finish his kick panels, I look forward to hearing the Extremis drivers.

[mitchyz250f]

I couldn't find any Adire Wr's. Are you talking about the Morel WR's?

[kappa546]

I couldn't find any Adire Wr's. Are you talking about the Morel WR's?

take a gander...

http://creativesound.ca/details.php?model=WR125S

[newtitan]

welp I have these two, and I too will agree that the trius play much better up high.

I havent put in the car yet, only free air in my office.

my quick opinions (more to come after next weekend when they go into my dash)

the legatia is built much better, larger magnet--NO VENT hole which is a PLUS for pillars as you can but them right up the metal, stronger tinsels/leads, all around build quality is superior in my opinion ONLY

im definitely no audiophile or whatever--just a dude who likes speakers

the inverted surround/paper cone is not that big of a deal.

the trius has the better top end reposnse, I too was shocked that is plays up to the 15K and I could easily see this full range with just a "little" help up top--but that was in the npdang review too

they play the same bandwidth imo, as my receiver leads are crossed at 180 hz, and I couldnt really hear the distortion that is apparent in both drivers below 800 or so. but I didnt use test tones

I dont really find one "better" than the other as they really have VERY different sounds

if you like DLS iridiums--then Id say go for the legatia--since I personally find the legatia to be a warmer, more robust sound. likened to a more blues like, or your the kind of person that loves the "vinyl" sound then IMO these are the better drives. hope that makes sense. all you old dj's like myself will know what im taking about

I have a feeling thats is SBuwaldas style/preference since he designed them and all and used the dls for awhile

if you like seas--then id say go for the trius--as I find these a bit more accurate, and "sweet" due to the better topend. to my ear they are a little louder, but for my usage dont play as well woff axis.

they both work better faced directly at you,though, off axis wasnt the best on either driver

the legatias cost more than the trius, but most of that is due to build quality. but for the average dude they are on the high side IMO. The trius is bad because they are hard to get in the US as it seems the US customs issue on an "individual" basis makes the manufacturers not really wanting to sell them to us Diy-ers

and these dont need very much power at all, IMO 50-60W would be good

Im going to take em over to a friends house this weekend and let him chime in as to which ones he likes better , so he'll add his opinions too :)

I have to post a review of my AVI mxd-100 also, as IMO these are some sleeper drivers--poly cone though, so I know some of you will run in fear lol, they are too big for most pillars though since the magnet is so big, and they are 4.5" not 3" so not a fair comparison lol

[AzGrower]

im definitely no audiophile or whatever--just a dude who likes speakers



Really? We couldnt tell dood...

[newtitan]

hey your stock if bigger than my stock :)

just referring to speakers ONLY :)

hey did you get the cd I sent you? did you like the albums or no?

[npdang]

FYI for those who have the space for a 4.5", these Vifa pl's are similar in build, tonality, and FR to the Legatia's but with higher clean output capability. ~$34 each.

[newtitan]

I ran those pl's in my pillars for a few weeks, didnt really like them too much personally

[sqkev]

The legatia's concept reminds me a lot of the 3" fostex. Wide bandwidth, high qts, inverted surround, ferrite magnet. Wonder how different they sound though, any ideas npdang?

[npdang]

I've never tried the 3" Fostex, but looks interesting.

Newtitan, what didn't you like about the Pl's? I had both drivers here and they sound very similar to my ears. Without several hours of listening and familiarizing myself I would be somewhat hard pressed to tell the difference. I have several people who were over when we were comparing, maybe I can get them to post their impressions.

I know 300z gave the 7" PL's a bad rap, until he took them out of his car :D

[300Z]

I know 300z gave the 7" PL's a bad rap, until he took them out of his car :D
Funny you mention that...

The thing about the PL 7's in the car was mostly in the midbass, it certainly had the output but even with 3 band of PEQ i could never get it to sound right... But, for that matter the RS180 didnt sound that much better neither... at first i thought the RS 180 was a world of difference but after long listening time i realized the difference weren't a big as i first thought it was...
The RS180 had better transparency in the midrange, but the PL's were still smooth... It just took me a very very long time to get the PL's to sound somewhat acceptable (to my standards anyway)... while the RS180's were much easier to make them sound good...
The thing with the PL in the car is that it required so much more tuning/EQ to get it right than any other driver that i have used in my entire life. This was in my car of course.
Heck, even at home it took me a while to get the PL's to sound good, but now i'm happy with them and that's what i have been using at home for a couple months already... :p

Now even funnier is that i am actually intrigued if i should put the PL's back in the car but as a midbass only or go with dual Audax/JBL's that i have here... :p I wanna get the Aura NS65 to use at home... ;)

I think that a lot people don't spend enough time fine tuning their system... (I used to be like that too)... and a good EQ is a must; no matter how flat a speaker will measure once you put it in the car the FR will change and it needs to be addressed...
:D

Leo

[Derek]

pl's are crap, when ran IB :)

[newtitan]

yeah ran mine IB , in my pillars stuffed with polyfill. 200 to 4khz. midrange was just a tad lifeless to me. at the time I had more than enough upper sparkle. but when I went from varying musical stlyes. the impact of the music, the feeling per say just was not their on some of my jazz, rnb bands/multiple instrument albums. Voices were just there, just didnt really move me

maybe I didnt tune them enough as 300z said, I personally would not recommend them for midrange duty

and used the pl for about 3 weeks or so, the legatias have only been free air in my house so there is a difference in how long I have listened to them

when you guys had you listening session they all thought they sounded the same?

like I said I need to come down and get schooled I think lol

[300Z]

The midrange on my PL's without any EQ will sound hollow and isnt as detailed as the RS180, but after lots of EQ it's nice and smooth... very easy to listen and for the most part makes me forget i'm listening to the drivers themselfs... ;)

[PlanetGranite]

The PL11MG09-08 gets really tempting when you realize that they are being blowded out for $22 a pop. :D

[npdang]

I wouldn't presume to speak for anyone, but generally the comments were that the PL11 sounded better. Not a fair comparison Imo, since the driver is quite a bit larger and was able to play noticeably louder. This was with an in-home comparison.

At the time I also had an Accuton 5" and a Diyma 7" prototype. With the distortion testing (using tone bursts) everyone was quite shocked at the huge audible difference between the smaller drivers and the larger ones. With music, I don't think most people could tell until the driver began to breakup.

But 300z has a great point. The best cars I've heard always had daily, obsessive tuning for a period of months at the least.

[newtitan]

hmm thats intersting, wish I could have been there--to learn something new as I sure need it lol

and the larger drivers do make a difference at least IMO. I mated both drivers to my mx-100 and w18nx

and the mx-100 is impressibly louder and more refined, much better impact all around

but there just isnt anything else for pillar mounts for those of us that dont like kicks in large sitting height trucks/suv

I hope I can sit in a truck/suv with kicks one day, as I just dont see how I can get proper imaging with the midrange so low in comparison to my ear height

what tones did you use? maybe I can try those notes?

maybe at the next marv meet

Ill leave the P11's to you guys though :)

[300Z]

but there just isnt anything else for pillar mounts for those of us that dont like kicks in large sitting height trucks/suv

I hope I can sit in a truck/suv with kicks one day, as I just dont see how I can get proper imaging with the midrange so low in comparison to my ear height

Raul use kicks in his truck and IMO he has done a great job with it...
But if i where in a situation like yours i would use dome mids in the dash and tweeters in the A-pillar like Steve Head did in his truck. That truck sounded very, very nice.

What truck have you got now? Can you fit a Dayton RS52 in your dash? ;)

Leo

[kevin k.]

At the time I also had an Accuton 5"


And the test results would look like...? :confused: :p

[Derek]

has anybody tried the dayton ref dome mids in dash yet? thinking i might pick up a pair....throw them where my tweets are....put tweets in a pillars....

combined with center channel....could = bliss.

[Finleyville]

Well, since I own a pair of Trius' and have quickly listened to the Legatias at SVR I too will post my impressions.

Actually, Newtitan mirrors my thoughts exactly.





I dont really find one "better" than the other as they really have VERY different sounds

I personally find the legatia to be a warmer, more robust sound. likened to a more blues like, or your the kind of person that loves the "vinyl" sound then IMO these are the better drives. hope that makes sense. all you old dj's like myself will know what im taking about

I have a feeling thats is SBuwaldas style/preference since he designed them and all and used the dls for awhile

if you like seas--then id say go for the trius--as I find these a bit more accurate, and "sweet" due to the better topend. to my ear they are a little louder

the trius has the better top end reposnse, it plays up to 15K and I could easily see this full range with just a "little" help up top--but that was in the npdang review too

the legatias cost more than the trius, but most of that is due to build quality. but for the average dude they are on the high side IMO. The trius is bad because they are hard to get in the US as it seems the US customs issue on an "individual" basis makes the manufacturers not really wanting to sell them to us Diy-ers

Even though I did not compete a member from ECA took some time to listen to my car outside the SVR venue. He is currently runninng the Legatia's in his comp car and obviously has much more listening time with those drivers than me. Even though he was sparce with his comments ;) he did tell me that the Trius sounded "colorless and neutral." I think he agrees with my assessment as well. But I am not too sure.

If you can fit a larger driver (say a 4") in your 3-way front stage I would recommend that first over either of these offerings. The ability to play lower without much distortion is the benefit. However, if space restraints require a small driver, then either of these would fit the bill.

So my final answer is just like many other driver comparisons between manufactures this one is no different. Different companies have different driver characteristics. If you prefer a more warmer sound that is forgiving with all types of source material opt for the Hybrid Technology's Legatia. If you prefer a more lively sound then the Trius is what you want.

Look for my upcoming detailed review of my R32 install including the Trius, Tec planar tweets, and the new Adire Extremis 6.4's.

[DigitalBoomer]

I find all of this discussion quite interesting. I have recently purchased a set of the Legatia's and am in the process of rebuilding my front soundstage. It is my understanding that the L3's shine their best playing free air/IB. I'm going in the kicks with them but vented with plenty of airspace. When I'm finished I'll post back with my thoughts on them.

[DigitalBoomer]

I find all of this discussion quite interesting. I have recently purchased a set of the Legatia's and am in the process of rebuilding my front soundstage. It is my understanding that the L3's shine their best playing free air/IB. I'm going in the kicks with them but vented with plenty of airspace. When I'm finished I'll post back with my thoughts on them.

I picked up my car from Jeff Smith early Saturday morning (3:30 AM!!) and carried it to the IASCA show in Dawsonville, GA. We only had time to set the time alignment and crossover points and did almost zero tuning. I was pleasantly surprised at how detailed and smooth these drivers are. I had a number of people listen to my car and everybody thought the speakers sounded excellent. They were mounted off-axis in the kicks (vented through the frame rail) and crossed from 200hz to 7khz. The drivers exhibited no audiable linear distortion even when played above 90db. The soundstage was wide and spacious with great imaging.

The was a small amount of sibilance in the mid-frequency vocals but that was easily corrected with a little EQ adjustment at the show. I was surprised that with almost no tuning I scored a 26/30 on the RTA (this was the very first time an RTA was run on this set-up). A lot of attention was paid to getting these drivers in the correct enclosure and mounting configuration. The tweeters (Legatia L1's) were mounted half-way up the A-pillar firing off-axis almost at the windshield and crossed from 7khz and up. Mid-bass was being handled by a set of MB Quart 6.5" QSD's mounted IB in the doors crossed from 50hz to 200hz and the sub-bass utilized was a pair of ID 12" drivers in a 2 cu' ft' sealed enclosure firing up from the trunk floor of a 2004 Cavalier. Amplifiers used are a Zapco DC650.4 for the front stage, and a Zapco DC750.2 for the subwoofers. This week the subwoofers are being replaced by a set of IDQ's.

The only problem I experienced was with some door panel resonance from the QSD's on tracks with dynamic mid-bass passages and the sibilance I mentioned above. We're pulling the door panels for some extra deadening with Dynaflex mats and a little more Extreme Dynamat.

All in all I'm extremely pleased with the performance of these drivers. With a little more tweaking and tuning I'm sure they will only get better. Any of you who are attending IASCA finals next weekend are welcome to come to the SQ area and I will gladly provide you with a demo.

Are they the greatest speakers ever?? I wouldn't say that, but they are the best sounding speakers I've had in my car. I've run Diamond Hex's, Focal Polyk2's, Focal Utopias, and Rockford FNQ's and these sound just as good as any of them if not slightly better. The key to getting these drivers sounding great comes down to how you utilize them in your install. My set-up is in a small 2dr coupe and they are only getting 75W RMS per driver. In a larger vehicle you may need to go with a driver with more cone area and more power to achieve the same dynamics.

[FoxPro5]

Question for the Legatia owners. How long (hours) do you feel like it took for the drivers to break in??

[DigitalBoomer]

Question for the Legatia owners. How long (hours) do you feel like it took for the drivers to break in??

We played pink noise on them for 25 hours as the manual recommended.

[FoxPro5]

We played pink noise on them for 25 hours as the manual recommended.

Was that continuously in-car?

[DigitalBoomer]

Was that continuously in-car?

[no] We played the pink noise on them free air before they were used in the car to test proper placement. It wasn't done continuously, it was done over a couple of weeks in intervals while other parts of the install were in progress. Was it necessary? I don't know the answer to that question. All I know is that is what Hybrid Audio recommended so that is what we did. Jeff Smith did the install and he's a widely respected installer. He's worked with them before and thought it was the proper thing to do and I agreed.

The install isn't complete yet. We still have some finish work to do in the trunk and some extra deadening to do in the door panels. Once that is complete we will get them completely dialed in before finals. I'll also post some pics here if any of you are interested.

[Finleyville]

I'll also post some pics here if any of you are interested.

Yes, please do. In the install section, of course. :)

[FoxPro5]

[no] We played the pink noise on them free air before they were used in the car to test proper placement. It wasn't done continuously, it was done over a couple of weeks in intervals while other parts of the install were in progress. Was it necessary? I don't know the answer to that question. All I know is that is what Hybrid Audio recommended so that is what we did. Jeff Smith did the install and he's a widely respected installer. He's worked with them before and thought it was the proper thing to do and I agreed.

The install isn't complete yet. We still have some finish work to do in the trunk and some extra deadening to do in the door panels. Once that is complete we will get them completely dialed in before finals. I'll also post some pics here if any of you are interested.

Ok, thanks. Yes pics!! :)