2001 Sonoma Crew Cab - pure SQ setup

[lightspeed]

Finally(!) I am getting some install happenin'. :)

I spent forever learning everything there is to know about car audio. My last system was an Alpine deck in my CRX, two blaupunkt 6.5 coax in the back and two 4" Sony in the front doors, and a Sony XM4040 with one 8" sub in a sealed box. It actually sounded pretty damn good, anyone withh a CRX will tell you it's a sweet car for installs.

But that was then (college, no money) and this is now (married, workin full time white collar cash comin out my . .OK, maybe not). I have a decent system at home (NAD, PSB) and wanted to try to get similar in the car. So what we have is NO SPACE to put anything, and these ingredients:

-Illusion ND 10 sub in .7cuft box.
-(2) Eu-700's in a 1cuft. box each.
(I will try both of these an pick which one sounds best.)

RS180 for kickbass
HiVi B3n for mids
Dayton ND20 for highs.

This assumes a 3-way. I also have a set of RS28's for a 2-way which is looking more likely. Once again, I'd like to try both and pick which sounds best. I planned this as a 3-way and needed 7 full channels. I also planned to use my stock HU and no outboard crossovers. It wasn't easy to figure that out, but I think i have it done. The biggest hurdle was the amps, 7 channels with bandpassable crossovers, and amps had to fit that TINY space. Looks like Helix fits the bill. Updates later.

First off, ran the 4 guage through the firewall and up to the batt with a Stinger fusebox, and nice gold terminal.

http://mypage.iu.edu/~jewgreen/install1.jpg
Then I started doing the Raammat. Got the driver's door mostly done, I will add the Ensolite tonight. Then onto the passenger dooor for the same thing.

http://mypage.iu.edu/~jewgreen/install2.jpg

I will also put in a couple Deflex pads behind the RS180's, and need to build a couple mdf rings for mounting. Here's a pic of the two sub boxes I built. Convoluted and a major PITA, but it was worth it get the maximum amount of box space behind the back seat. The ND10 will fire towards thhe back wall with about 1" of space. The two Eu's will fire off to each side, right about the edge of the back seat. The ND10 only gets about .7cuft, and it likes more. The Eu's each get 1 cuft which is considered big for those. Which will sound better? I dunno! All boxes are stuffed with polyfill.

http://mypage.iu.edu/~jewgreen/subs.jpg

Whelp, that's it for now. I'll try to keep it going as i finish.

Jeff!

[niceguy]

Question for you: How does firing the sub toward the rear of the truck cabin sound compared w/firing it toward the front?

I love the way that sub looks...

[lightspeed]

You know, I have no idea. I have heard LOTS of conflicting ideas/advice/comments. Some people have subs firing directly into the seat. i have read that even though the subs frequencies are not directional, they are still coupled with the cabins airspace. So it doies make sense that you would get different sound from one that is firing into the cabin air vs. one that is firing directly into a seatback.

On the ND10 I made sure to give it at least a 1" airspace, and the back wall kind oif tapers backwards so it will actually have closer to 2" for much of the cone. But the Eu's will fire directly out the sides of the back seatbench. I don't have any of it hooked up yet, and it will certainly be a totally subjective call when I hear them both. Plus, they are completely different kinds of subs. I was just trying to fit ANYTHING I could in that space.

Personally, I hope the ND10 sounds best. I have heard so many great things about it and have high hopes for it. Remember I am going for sound quality, seamless blending with the music at listenable levels vs. SPL and booming. I'll post my observations here.

[jtholley03]

My buddy did something like this and the airspace ended up acting like a large slotted port giving the sub a one note sound.

Hope it works better for you. Let us know how it sounds.

[lightspeed]

My buddy did something like this and the airspace ended up acting like a large slotted port giving the sub a one note sound.

Hope it works better for you. Let us know how it sounds.

Interesting. I had never even considered that. It should have a decent 2" or so and about 12" in hieght. Plus it's open on both sides . . . so let's hope that helps. Otherwise I have the other one!

[lightspeed]

I realize that my install is pretty basic, but if it helps anyone out - EXCELLENT.

Spent the weekend, ripping off trim, passenger door panel, pulling carpet, taking out back bench, etc. Pulled the 4 channel RCA (NOT easy!) under the carpet. Pulled the 4 front stage wires (16 gauge) under the carpet, pulled the two kickbass (14 gauge), and the turn on wire and ran the 4 gauge power cable.

http://mypage.iu.edu/~jewgreen/install4.jpg

Then I finished the Raamat and the Ensolite on the drivers door and test fit the panel back on. It'll need a little trimming around the edges for a good fit. Then i Raamatted the whole floor from the front seat edge up the firewall. I had also removbed the center console and did everything under that as well. Then Ensolite over all of that. Sorry i didn't get pics of that stage, i was trying to beat the rain and was crankin away on it.

http://mypage.iu.edu/~jewgreen/install3.jpg

Carpet is all down now and even without thhe passenger door being done, there is a HUGE reduction in over all road noise. :D

more soon.

[Dangerranger]

I imagine the Illusion ND10 will be the better sub of that comparison. Excellent SQ subs as well as giving you outstanding transition with midbass drivers.

[niceguy]

Keep the pics and updates coming....my bro in law and I started on his '94 Ranger regular cab yesterday but it's not going to be easy as I'd hoped...we're shooting for 2 AA Assassin 10s sealed behind the seats. There is no room back there and he's 6'1" and 250lbs so moving his seat up for space is not an option.....

Did I mention how great that ND 10 looks?!? :D


Jeremy

[jtholley03]

niceguy - go IB!

Infinite baffle that is!

[lightspeed]

Keep the pics and updates coming....my bro in law and I started on his '94 Ranger regular cab yesterday but it's not going to be easy as I'd hoped...we're shooting for 2 AA Assassin 10s sealed behind the seats. There is no room back there and he's 6'1" and 250lbs so moving his seat up for space is not an option.....

Did I mention how great that ND 10 looks?!? :D


The ND10 in person is just shocking. Tooo bad it has to be mounted so you can't see the back of the cage. It's just awesome.

You know, the Ranger is notorious for being a bitch of an install. The Sonoma Crew Cab has very similar space restrictions behind the back bench seat. VERY tiny. I looked at just about every sub in the world, had an Earthquake SWS10 in my hands to check fit, and really you have a couple choices. The Eu-700's firing sideways as i have done, the ND10 and the Phase Linear Aliante. I have no idea how you will fit two Assaasins back there. Don't forget that if it is a high excursion driver you need space for that thing to move. That's why the Earthquake was ruled out.

If you look for an Illusion sub, make sure it is an older one made in the US (Arizona). When they were bought out, they started making stuff in India and quality went way down.

I'll get my amps today and will be resuming install in the next few days, and this weekend. I'm still letting my back rest after last weekends session.
***
Sidenote: Yesterday I was so damn happy thhat i got the truck at least finished enough that i could drive it to work. What I forgot was that I was picking the boys (5 and 3) up from preschool. When I got there i realized that I still didn't have carseats back in, OR a rear bench! I had to fly home and swap cars.

[lightspeed]

The amps are in! wOOt!

I'll try to get as much finished as is possible this Saturday.
Here they are in their two proposed locations, depending on which sub/box is used. (the top on is the ND box, the bottom is the Eu box)Now you can see why SPACE was such an issue. But these little babies will give me 8 full channels WITH BANDPASSABLE CROSSOVERS. Each on is about 1.5" thick and slightly smaller than a regular sheet of paper. Bitchin. :cool:

http://mypage.iu.edu/~jewgreen/helix.jpg
http://mypage.iu.edu/~jewgreen/helix3.jpg

[niceguy]

Wow...nice but too rich for my blood :)

Don't know much about them but that brand means $$ IIRC...

What's your max bottom depth on both enclosures? We only have like 9" external BD on the passenger side and a little less on the driver side of the Ranger....

BTW, what's the extended portion of the ND 10" box for? Looks like a single sheet of wood...just for amp mounting or something?

Jeremy

[lightspeed]

These are NOS, and only about $175 a pop. Good luck finding more of those new though! I really lucked out. Brand new equivalents run around $600.

Iff you mean the depth at the bottom of the box . . .Look at the top pic of the ND10 box. That drop down goes in the jackwell area, and was only 7.5"! Further along to the right where it raises up out of the jackwell is only about 6".

The extended portion I left on probably for amp mounting. I didn't want to cut it off and the regret that later. Plus, it kind of balances the whole unit out by adding some weight to that side. i won't have to bolt it in, and make it that much easier for a thief to just walk away with thhe whole unit! I may have to rethink that . . .

If you have a full 9" of bottom depth, then you should seriously take a look at this book about speaker building. I will try to find the title for you. I got it from our library, anbd it had a bunch of DIY sub box ideas. one was a downfiring box for a situation just like yours. i think he had 2 8" subs in there firing down, with about a 2-3" gap at the bottom. I considered that, but just could not make it work, even with the Eu700's. But I like this side firing design i did.

[niceguy]

If it's the Speaker Builder's Cookbook or something like that I have it...glossy cover w/black and white pics inside,etc?? Picked one up off ebay a few years back...

I just didn't realize that ND was that shallow...the Assassin subs are about 5.5" deep but my bro-in-law has to recline the seat back against the wall so we lose too much depth....I told him to call Chad and see if they could do some kind of swap for 8s or something...I can build him a box for the 2 10s that will work, but he insists on having one behind his back so he can feel it.

If he can't swap the subs, I'm going to go ahead and build the box I know will work. BTW, he's already been running 2 8" subs in small sealed prefab boxes...one Memphis MClass 8 and a RF punch 8...that Memphis KILLS the RF.

Jeremy

[lightspeed]

Awright. I have really been negligent on the pics, but I have been going super fast and not much to show really.

I finally have the amps in, everything wired and working, with some fine tuning on crossovers and levels. One thing I can tell you at least as a preliminary judgement: The Eu's smoke the ND10 in THIS application. Remember that the ND needs at least 1 cu.ft. minimum and I only gave it about .65 with some added stuffing. The Eu's are getting what they consider a BIG box and just play WAY lower than the ND can. The ND sounds OK, but has a peak that is higher in frequency and then when you roll the xover down it just kind of peters out. The Eu's sound warmer, and go way lower. Not sure about overall levels and how hard either hits. I will try the ND one more time to make sure, but it's pretty obvious.

Without any TA, phase checking, driver adjustment, or even driver mounting (they are all just set in place, or popped in with 2 screws) it sounds AMAZING. Really shocking. I am super glad I wired the RCA's to be able to fade the subs from the deck.

I am using the stock Delco HU, which some may know does NOT have a remote turn on wire. PITA. Well, I figured out that one of the wires (purple-white stripe) is from the tach for the speed controlled volume (which i hate). I am 90% of that, not positive. But i pulled it out of the harness with the little connector, metered the empty spots in the harness and found one that was SWITCHED 12V (wOOt!) and soldered the connector on the remote turn on to the amps and BINGO! it snapped right in and is now part of the harness. Works like a charm and I was so damn proud of myself.

At one point I had amp #1 dying on me, crackling in the speaker and the speaker protection light coming on. Totally confused. Happened again and again, checked all the wires. Then amp#1 wouldn't even power. Damn. Fried amp? before I switched the amps to trouble shoot amp #2 started doing the same. Damn! Then, weird sounds from the starter, finally power locks wouldn't work. Aha! i am killing the battery! Charged it up, jumped the car, BINGO! Can't sit and run the amps unless the truck is on. Maybe a better battery will help. Anyone? i also thought that since my remote wire was initially hooked into the ignition wire that maybe it was bleeding some juice constantly? Anyway, it's all good now.

Funniest thing is, as far as the drivers, the most impressive in the order of least expense. ND20's sound amazing, for $5 you CANNOT beat them. The HiVi B3's sound totally killer, esp at $10 ea. The Eu's are shocking at $50 ea. The RS180's sound really good, but I don't have them properly mounted yet.

Don't get me started on the Helix, SOOOOO perfect for me. Imagine my surprize when I powered them up. They light up like Xmas trees! I think there may be 10-15 lights in each one. :o

[niceguy]

Sounds fun.....I had the same battery experience as you at least 3 times the other day! While in the driver's seat, I used one leg to roll the car out of the garage next to the work van and jump it off...pulled back in and 3 mins later - same thing! Cruddy autozone batteries!!

Those ND20s are the cheap Dayton tweets I've seen in the catalogs right?

Was that the round or squared one? How are yours mounted? I wanted to try a pair but didn't want to cut any holes in the panels for a press fit. However, I may try them or the Dayton Ref tweets in my van's dash if I can't get these Peerless tweets to do what I want...Like you said, $5....

Glad you like the EUs too, though I'm kindof surprised at the results...

Oh and....PICS!!!! :D

Jeremy

[lightspeed]

Those ND20s are the cheap Dayton tweets I've seen in the catalogs right?
They are the tiny little $5 Daytons. Sound really really nice. I don't think i would use them for a 2-way (i actually have some rs28's i haven't fired up yet), but for a 3-way they are perfect. Really crisp and clean but silky. Not harsh.


Was that the round or squared one? How are yours mounted? I wanted to try a pair but didn't want to cut any holes in the panels for a press fit. However, I may try them or the Dayton Ref tweets in my van's dash if I can't get these Peerless tweets to do what I want...Like you said, $5....
The HiVi's are the round ones. B3N, and they were $10 each. The bad thing was debucking them. Not too easy, but it was worth it. I'd like to try out the Trius just for the hell of it, but I can't imagine anything sounding THAT much better. They are very very nice.

Glad you like the EUs too, though I'm kindof surprised at the results...
I was too a little. I thought it would probably be much closer, or the sound quality would be very different. The sound is very similar, but the Eu's just go lower and smoother. The ND seems to have a strong peak, too high in the spectrum. But I had been warned that it likes a bigger box.

Don't get me wrong though, the Eu's don't slam like a 12". I am not looking for slamming anyway, just filling out the bottom. I will try the ND again this weekend just to make sure before I get rid of it.

I'll try to get some pics up soon as well, although not much to show. Amps are just laying on the back floor, wiring all over the place, tweets velcro'd on the pillars and the 3" sitting in the dash spots with cloth wrapped around them to tighten them up. Once I get it where i want it I'll work on a final installl for each driver, wrap the sub box in carpet, mount the amps, do the final wiring hookups, etc.

[lightspeed]

MINOR UPDATE

Before I ebay'd the Illusion sub off, I thought i had better give it another A/B with the Eu's. I have been driving around for quite awhile now getting everything tuned and finding the frontstage locations etc etc.
BOY AM I GLAD I DID! It was night and day. I almost think that I had the polarity messed up on the subs originally or something. Probably just the initial crossover point, not sure. All I know is the Illusion is just slamming now. It seems far lower and tighter than the Eu's. So, it stays.

Also, the HiVi B3n's are temporarily mounted inside some PVC and angled towards the domelight. Tweets are just outside of them aimed a little more straight ahead. Right now it's very clean and balanced, sounds unreal with classical and jazz. Very transparent without too much of an edge. Depends on the recording. I think i would prefer something a tad warmer for lots of rock and saturated guitars (which I do a lot). I may try out some Vifa, or???

Jeff

[niceguy]

PICS!! :D

Glad the ND turned out to be the winner....such a cool sub.....So how about a little more info on how the ND10 sounds firing toward the back cabin wall. And how much room is between it and the sub? Still about 1-2"?? I'm still debating on how to fire the subs into the back seats?(Going to install 1 or 2 AA Assassin 10s into a reg cab Ranger)

I've picked up the BG Neos and a pair of NorthCreek D25s lately but haven't had time to tune the NorthCreeks yet...boy are they HUGE!!! Almost fill my 5.25" dash speaker opening....!

BTW, PICS!! :D

Jeremy

[lightspeed]

ya i need pics . . hehe i am negligent. The ND is firing directly into the back wall, and there is VERY little space. maybe 3/4". It's just fine, but it has really brought out the rattles. I need to do some isolating and suppression.

If you put 2 10" into a Ranger cab you better watch out for your back molars man. good god, the ND just about makes you sick. My weakest link has now beccome the amps. They are doing just fine right now, but without fans, the little airspace and the draw of the ND . . it can get hot if i'm slammin for too long. I don't bump like that so I'll be fine.

i am really happy with the frontstage but may look for something a tad warmer for the mids. No biggie to swap them out at this stage. i haven't even begun any kind of permanent mounting. My friends call it a ghetto stereo causse it's looks horrible. but wow, it sounds sweet.

I think the worst part about having a system like this is thhat every single CD has a different mix that realkly stands out and bad recordings really really suck. A cheap stereo and it all sounds the same , no probs. MP3's don't work here. MP4 is not bad . . .

[slow2.2sonoma]

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