New system for Jaguar XK8 - need help with design!

[Misiek]

Hi,

My name is Michal, I'm new to this forum and seek help in building my system. I need recommendations for components, that I could listen to. I have no experience with Car Audio but I do have some with Home Audio. Anyways my budget is about $1500 that includes installation and following components: Head Unit, 4ch Amplifier, Component speakers for front 5 1/4" and Coaxial or Component 5 1/4" for rear. I have Mono amplifier Alpine MRP-M450 and JL Audio 12W3v2 in a box now, the rest of the system has just failed it was just an stock Jaguar Premium system. I like Alpine CDA-9857 head unit, is it any good?

Thanks,

Misiek

[Whiterabbit]

best bet is to find a shop you trust and let them take care of you.

I'd be asking around for shop recommendations more than anything else.

The big issue is taking gear to a shop and asking them to install it can be a crapshoot that tends to lead to performance problems. Ususally caused by a combination of factors including a lack of understanding on all sides of whether the gear performs well with the rest of the gear combined with a lack of knowledge of the best way to implement it.

The best bet is to find the shop you will have build you car and have them involved in the design portion rather than us. I think there's just too much money in your budget to be fiddling around with installation self education.

[azngotskills]

i would have to agree in this situation....too many time people just recommend things and dont consider the user, vehicle, and budget (i am guilty of this too :()

[MiniVanMan]

I will have to agree as well. While we can offer a good education, and some great tips, I think very, very few, if any at all, have actually worked on that car.

The best suggestion I can give is to find a reputable installer. You may have to drive a bit to find one, but it will be worth it in the long run. Hash out some ideas and take those ideas, and bring them here.

I will say this, don't skimp on the installation. Car audio is 80% installation 20% equipment, while home audio is 20% installation and 80% equipment. That being said, here should be your priorities. Good head unit, then have your doors treated to the gills. Great speakers can sound like crap in a poor installation, crap speakers can sound decent in a great installation. Buy a decent set of components, and don't worry about rear speakers, then a nice 2 channel amp to run the components. That would be the simplest solution.

[3.5max6spd]

Yeah, hard to tell not knowing the car. Wonder if OEM location is forgiving...to at least step it up to 6.5" drivers.

[ArcL100]

Why can't he do the work himself again?

-aaron

[t3sn4f2]

Why can't he do the work himself again?

-aaron


he has "no experiance with car audio" and his budget is for install too, don't think he is interested in installing it himself.

[Misiek]

Well, what I would like to do is to find someone that would install the head unit with correct spacer, run wiring to the trunk and from trunk to the speakers. I have workshop manual for the car just in case of doing it my self. I won't be able to install head unit for sure, I want it to look good :). But the installation of speakers and amplifiers is simple enough that I can't do it wrong.

As far as the 6,5" speakers the factory space doesn't allow to install speaker that size, it's limited access and space.

I don't know any sound shops, I will go to few places and talk to people that are Alpine dealers. I know that Best buy or Circuit City don't want to touch my car, what's wrong with them. it doesn't bite, just something fail very often :).

And it spoused to be simple...

Thanks,

Misiek

[Whiterabbit]

ive tried writing it twice. The first time the server ate it, the second time the server ate IE and my clipboard. I dont know what to do.

[azngotskills]

i wouldnt want CC or BB to touch a car like that...they probably are scared to mess something up and be liable for damages....i suggest you research reputable shop to do your install. If you have funds to afford a Jaguar, i would invest in a quality install. Just try not to get ripped off my labor and equipment prices. We might be able to help you determine the latter though :)

[Whiterabbit]

his thread is gear based with a budget of $1500 and a partial list of gear already aquired. he can afford great stuff.

But asked no questions about physical install or application. his only stated concerns are cost and whether its "good"

[Whiterabbit]

this means that based on recommendations here and no doubt three or four other messageboards hes posted the same question on, he will make a list of gear with no consideration whatsoever to whether itll work well with the rest of the gear on his list.

[Whiterabbit]

The two ways I see this manifested are both a waste of money and extreemly common.

The first is buying a subwoofer or subwoofers to a total load of 2 ohms and buying an amp thats only 4 ohm stable.

The second is buying a tweeter that requires a high crossover cutoff and pairing it with a midrange that requires a low crossover cutoff.

Invariably, threads like this lead to a collection of pisspoorly matched gear. "this is great." "that is great." "this sounds good."

I'll let the other messageboards hes posted on make those uneducated replies. whether or not gear is "good" is a question for a disreputable shop salesman.

[Whiterabbit]

A reputable shop that knows its gear, what will fit a given application and give him the sound he wants (as stated, a speaker in every corner with a 4 channel amp) will be able to take care of him much better if they are in control of the gear list. Otherwise, Misiek will likely walk into the shop with a pair of 8's and 1/2 inch tweeters and hand them to the installer to say "make these sound good in my car"

and the poor installer will likely be held accountable for the impossibility of making it sound good. Leaving the salesman to convince Misiek it sounds good, or convince him we are full of crap and he should have bought something else instead.

[Whiterabbit]

when the stakes are $400, then its only $400 lost when the results arent good, and a great deal of education may come of it. May lead as a gateway into the hobby.

But to go from 0 to $1500 and the willingness to spend that kind of money on gear. If the customer's only consideration is whether or not the gear is "good" is very, very dangerous. Harder to segway into the hobby when they start out with great gear to begin with (though it likely will not work well in the application). The though process becomes "well, I bought all the good stuff and it sounds like crap. car audio must mean definitively lackluster sound" and so forth.

[Whiterabbit]

my god this server is frustrating. Is no one allowed to make a post more than 400 characters long without it getting eaten up by the server?

[MiniVanMan]

Mozilla is your friend. Every since I switched I've had no problems

[Misiek]

Whiterabbit you are so correct :D , I really don't have an idea what I'm doing. It's my first car and my first car audio, I don't have experience but I'm wiling to gain some. heh.. Someone said if you can afford a Jaguar you can spend $1500 on a system. Yes, some people are this way and No I'm not one of them. I really like Audio since I was a kid. Anyways I seek help in matching components, I don't know the brands and what sound good in what configuration. It's annoying that people look at my car and think that I have too much money, especially when I want to buy something for it. Like today I went in couple places and every single sales guy tried to push me some crap for few thousands of $. I don't like that at all, I want to go to a store and listen to speakers, amps and head units and be left alone. So I listened to few speakers and amps, so far I like Alpine Type R but they are 6.5" and won't fit, Type S are OK too. JL Audio ZR 6.5" component are OK, but not for price that sound advice ask. Focal's I think they are polyglass V2 6.5" component, I don't like them at all. I also listened to Pioneer TS 5.25" component and Polk Audio momo 5.25 component butit was in Circuit city ( hard to listen to anything ).I don't really want to spend all the money if I can find something else for less. I'm looking for sound similar to B&W 6 Series S3 with Rotel Amp, that is sound that I admire.


It's so much easier to build system at home than in the car, what makes it harder you can't tell how it will sound until you finish. Yes I have posted one Tread on Polish forum asking for advice, few people recommended Soundstream amps for Focal and MB Quart speakers, but I can't find a place to listen to them.

As faras installation I got my head unit out and it look simple to do except of conversion panel that I need :(.

[tophatjimmy]

Maybe someone said and I didn't see it, but what year XK8 do you have?

At our shop right now we are working on a 2002 XKR, is your XK8 the similar body style? If so, I may be able to help a little bit at least.

Might want to take a look here, it might help:
http://p4-8057.uk2net.com/jag/

From the XKR we have (if yours IS indeed similar) you have a 6" woofer in each door and a 2" tweeter in the dash at the base of each A-pillar. Easy enough to find a nice set of components that will fit.

In the rear (I assume you have a coupe, not a convertible) you should have 6" woofers in each rear seat side panel. You can't fit anything very substantial back there due to limited depth, but a pair of 6" coaxials will fit nicely as long as they are less than 3" deep.

***Note*** Notice I keep saying 6" NOT 6.5". Big difference. Very important

In the rear package tray should be a hole for a subwoofer. You may or may not have a factory sub in there (convertibles obviously don't have this location).
You could replace the factory sub with an appropriate IB capable subwoofer or just remove the factroy sub, leaving a big hole. Put a sub and box of your choice in the trunk and that hole will allow more of the bass into the cabin of the car.

If the dash is similar to the XKR we have, there is no dash kit available for it. So either work around the factory piece or you'll need to have a custom kit fabricated.

If your car is NOT similar to the 2002 XKR we have (which is very similar to the car in the link I provided above) then I just typed a hell of a lot of stuff for no real benefit to anyone.

Good luck.

[bbfoto]

Welcome to DIYMA, Misiek!

Take a look at the Pioneer Premier TS-C720PRS component speaker set. I have never been a fan of Pioneer's speakers, but these seem to be top performers for the money!

These are actually 6" mids and come with a variety of adapter plates so they should fit as long as you have the depth in your stock locations. Check the reviews Here:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7302
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8955

Check with forum member "audionutz" who owns a car audio install shop not too far from you in Ocala, FL. He is much more active on the Elite Car Audio forums (ECA) with the same user name. www.elitecaraudio.com

If he can't help you out I'm sure he can refer you to someone who can! He's VERY experienced and is a great guy who will not try to sell you crap or rip you off. His web site is:

http://www.teamaudionutz.com

Good luck with your 1st car audio install. :)

[ArcL100]

Might want to take a look here, it might help:
http://p4-8057.uk2net.com/jag/

Damn, that's a really nice site/writeup - if only every car had one of those, lol.

-aaron

[Misiek]

tophatjimmy - My XK8 is MY 1998 and it's very similar car to XKR, the difference in Audio system is that from 2000 or 2001 they started to use Alpine components instead Harman / Kardon.

As far as the website that you posted, I know it form Roadfly Jaguar forum. One of the members created it, I have use it for Subwoofer installation. Well I'm getting closer to purchase the components for my new system. But I would like to install everything by my self, I don't think CC or BB can do it better. Unfortunetly most of Custom Audio shops want to rip me off on parts and labor not mentioning components :(. For example the average for head unit mounting kit is 500$ for piece of plastic ?!

What parts I would require in order to install:
- Head unit
- 4 channel Amp
- mono amp
- new speakers (do I have to re wire the car?)

Here's few links to show you how does it look like:

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/d8e799098285c1ab.html

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/f800a74c279ab338.html

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/b6dd9f10dfa4921c.html

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/dd0e209bff997da8.html

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/63bac695a56ca65e.html

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/78b97950dce72a0e.html

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/e393056387e52bf3.html

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/6b82ab9e0284ecba.html

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/0b582a8e3f014763.html

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/d9e16ec617ca052d.html

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/8f09e0a579cca8dc.html

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/e65be1c4a6a570f0.html

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/5fd8e34821200cb5.html

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/77203cbd6790e582.html

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/5ba77d09b729e7d9.html

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/962a4a36b8c2420b.html

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/41186881a3d640e1.html

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/b58431c3cff66944.html

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/a602f0f8e832e1e4.html

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/b0fc7cbfdb5fab73.html

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/b4776608a0c9a6da.html

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/3fe2f69264998f7f.html

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/2b632117f305e1b5.html

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/83551dbf798de2a4.html

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/d731a135e690d0cb.html

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/df3ab4376b1d94a0.html

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/8d7545cfc3010fb5.html

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/a00b757fa3d62728.html

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/0d46b302919d72d4.html

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/3a492a0c3211e33d.html

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/ab862442c86d54a6.html

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/c88eae38343aa68b.html

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/b95a4bc5882f4527.html

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/d9222f0cff1a19d0.html

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/d72f8dd09d308b4a.html

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/51e7ef769562c075.html

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/e636c8c77386eba7.html

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/1561ee3dcc8e3509.html

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/6cceb2dcfbc185ff.html

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/9e5c60a9149deeda.html

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/a877e7769e2ee9fa.html

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/be30eadc8861d166.html

Sorry but the website is in polish ;).

Thanks, for help!

Appreciate it,

Misiek

[Rbsarve]

What parts I would require in order to install:
- Head unit
- 4 channel Amp
- mono amp
- new speakers (do I have to re wire the car?)


You wouldn need a dash kit of course, in the US I belive Metra is a polular choise, over here in europe Autoleads (.co.uk) is usually a good souce, but they appeared to have only the harness adaptor.

Since you will power the new speakers with separate amps, you will have to route new speaker wires. And you will have to route signal cables from the head unit and back.

I would skip the rear speakers, get an Alpine 9855 (it's vastly better then the 9857) and run a pair of good 6" (not 6,5" or 5.25") in the doors with small widbands like the Peerles Vline TG9 or some of Aura Sounds offerings.

Also prepare to add some damping material to the door skin, it usually needs it. :D

[Misiek]

Well I have spend some time with Electrical guide and Alpine Head unit manual, and now I know how to connect my head unit. It's very simple, I need Alpine wiring harness and few connectors. Is it worth re-wiring the speakers? How hard would it bee to run new wires?

Thanks,

Misiek

[Rbsarve]

The only hard parts with changing speaker cables is
A) knowing how to pry away panels so the clips are ok.
B) getting them trough the grommet into the door.

[Misiek]

Yes, the panels and pins. I'm afraid about breaking something; Florida does not treat cars well. Plastic can brake very easy, so I would like to avoid unnecessary installation. I found the way to install RCA Cables for amplifiers inside the trunk, and how to connect head unit with my own wiring harness.

Thanks,

Misiek

[Misiek]

What do you think about this ?

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/0e7ba2dcc3d75f72.html

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/0b50b22a00bf531a.html

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/9d7bc66e1199fe03.html

http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/67bb254b0a5ef671.html

I'm almost done with documentation :).

[Misiek]

Hi,

Thank you all for help with design of my system, you have encouraged me to perform the installation. Also helped me with choosing the components, I will be very pleased if you would like to visit my cardomain.com profile and take look at the installation. Please post your comments, if you have any. I hope that everything I wrote on that website will help people seeking help with their Xk's and guide them through the installation process. Thank you for your help, and time that you spent

Here is the link:

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2378983

Best regards,

Misiek

[Misiek]

Well, It's me again but this time I have different question. My subwoofer which is JL Audio 12W3v2 is just not worth it... It's mounted in QLogic Box, I know it's not properly tuned but that's the way it is. So my plan is to get better subwoofer(s), I thought of 2x JL 12W6v2 in generic box (sealed or bassreflex) or get 10W7 ProWedge. I can't install JL's HO or 12" ProWedge because of height of my trunk. Why Jaguar have to make everything so difficult...

Best,

Misiek

[Rbsarve]

JL knows thier boxes. Get a Pro Wedge and a huge amp to power it with.