Great sound deadener install

[jisturm]

I have a Ford Escape and they are loud as hell. On the Escape Central website, I found this sound deadener install.

Very nice work!

http://www.escape-central.com/1forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25839

[Rudeboy]

Very nice. It kind of freaks me out when I read something like that and run into references to Sound Deadener Showdown. Motivates me to get the new version finished :)

[bobditts]

all that work on the doors gone to waste on some oval speakers :( lol looks pretty nice though.

[unpredictableacts]

Raammat FTW!!!!

[89grand]

all that work on the doors gone to waste on some oval speakers :( lol looks pretty nice though.

Well, sound deadening isn't just for speakers, it makes the car a lot quiter too so it wasn't a total waste.

I admit though, I looked at the speakers too and thought WTF?

[bobditts]

I know I know. road noise is a b!tch.

[chad]

all that work on the doors gone to waste on some oval speakers :( lol looks pretty nice though.

What's wrong with oval speakers? KEF used them for a long time (still may) They don't suck.

Chad

[89grand]

What's wrong with oval speakers? KEF used them for a long time (still may) They don't suck.

Chad

I feel the same way, but I don't want to get into that again, I mentioned oval speakers don't necessarily suck in a thread about whether round speakers are better than 6x9's and it turned into a long drawn out affair just recently.

Rick from Raamat went so far as to say I shouldn't post in topics about non round speakers anymore since I apparently don't understand physics.:o

[Whiterabbit]

What's wrong with oval speakers?

I would say that MOST manufacturers dont put as much cone technology into them as other round drivers. Resulting in the most common problem (seen in both 5x7 and 6x9 sizes) of extreeme cone flex/resonantion at bass frequencies. literally being able to see standing waves in the cone.

requiring high cutoff points to compensate for bass distortion. deafeating the purpose of trying to use more cone area in the first place! :o

This is what ive noticed as a general rule with common production 5x7's and 6x9's.

[chad]

But when a reputable driver builder builds an oval speaker it usually works well. We're not talking Kraco, Fryanear, etc. I've REALLY been wanting to try out something like the TB oval drivers, but I seem to have something against TB's low efficiency ratings coupled to lowish power handling.

So yes there are issues with common market CAR DRIVERS geared to be slammed in the rear deck of a 78 Camaro, but lets not overgeneralize and say they ALL are bad since there are some nice igh end oval drive units out there.

Damn and I just said what Whiterabbit said in more words, ahhh, I'm not editing it :)

Chad

[raamaudio]

89, (edited, see following posts;)

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Now to the subject at hand, that was a very serious deadening job but there are a few holes in the execution that could of been better accomplished for those doing it at least as much for the audio as the road noise reduction. It is easy to combine the efforts for the same results:)

1) as noted, ouch! on those speakers but even they would sound better with at least a minimal deadening behind them. A couple of patches of mat and some sort of foam to not reflect the back wave of the driver would be a major improvement.

2) allot of effort went into dealing with panel resonances, less material and time could be used there. Instead of the shotgun approach I prefer to just give the panels a good rap here and there and locate the problem areas and add just enough to deal with them. I like to use a dab of silicone sealer on the door pops, where they attach to the panels and where they pop into the car, and on the backs of removable access panels. This will prevent them from resonating yet they can easily be popped back off if need be.

3) A layer of foam over mat on the inner skin of the doors, with a metal backing over the holes (what my install guide has had for years) between the outer areas of the car and the panels is enough in most cases, fully covering the door panels with more foam is again a bit more than you really need to do.

4) If I have an install in a very loud, high heat, etc floor area, big exhaust, etc, etc. I have a method to deal with that. Not that this install would matter to much but many do. I cover the whole floor with a layer of mat and then foam. I go back and do the thump test, any area still resonate I add more mat right on top of the foam but limit it to just those areas, not going to do any good on an area already non resonate. If there is a heat issue as in many hot rods, kit cars, etc, I also run a strip of the mat, width determined by area effected, etc, of course, along that area. Then I go back and add a second layer of foam over those areas. This could end up being 1/5th, up to 2/3 of the total floor area, depending on the vehicle (Cobra kit car being the extreme). The result from the mat/foam/mat/foam layering is incredible, heat and noise transfer is lowered to such a great deal they are no longer an issue.

5) If you really want to go all out start looking at high grade expanding foam for all the chassis voids(Pillars, sills, roof supports, and a thick layer over the wheel wells) I have done this several times now, time consuming,, messy, expensive, but another way to make a major improvement. Only those that can leave their vehicles apart for at least a few days should consider this.

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I fully support the production and distribution of many types of deadening products, we keep to the basics that will take care of most everyones needs so we can focus on the best support we can provide. Some of our competitors offer great additional products and I am glad they do:)
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Sincerely,
Rick

[89grand]

89, if you want to play that game buddy, I was trying to point out that most oval speaker suck because of their poor designs and that good ones can be built but there are none worth using readily available. I also pointed out that a very good audio manf is coming out with oval speakers and I expect them to be great but they are not out yet. I am not quoting what either of us said here, just the basic content of the message. Your posts were misleading at best and I did not want to see some less experienced individuals go out and waste their money on less than adequate oval speakers when they could do far better on round ones for far less money, pretty simple really. I'm sorry if I offended you, not my intention but if you want to continue this is a public forum well, gloves on or off??? I did publicly appologize and meant it but if you want to continue, well, what have you go to lose, not as much as I do;)



Sincerely,
Rick

No need to fly off the handle. I was making light of it in my post, not trying to start round 2. I haven't changed my opinion on the subject, but I don't feel a need to discuss it any further either.

Lighten up, it's no big deal.

I hope this doesn't mean you won't cut me the same deal on Raamat as you do other forum members when I decide to get some deadener.:)

[raamaudio]

Now you really made me feel like an arse :blush:

I will edit my post and I do appologize, really, I am not comfortable not getting along with everybody I possibly can, that is the real me, the tough guy side is something I do not like to let out of the bag, life is to short and we need to have as much fun as we can.

Of course you get the member prices:)

Rick


No need to fly off the handle. I was making light of it in my post, not trying to start round 2. I haven't changed my opinion on the subject, but I don't feel a need to discuss it any further either.

Lighten up, it's no big deal.

I hope this doesn't mean you won't cut me the same deal on Raamat as you do other forum members when I decide to get some deadener.:)

[89grand]

No problem. We're cool.:)

[t3sn4f2]

Rick or anyone could you give you thoughts on this. I've read that sometimes when you deaden a car it affect the sound in the cabin in an offensive way. Almost like the factory car was tuned to have a pleasant less then optimum interior noise and when you deaden it, it shifts that to a different sound that is not as loud maybe but not tolerable, like a deeper hum maybe?. Is this a common problem that one needs to worry about?

[raamaudio]

What is the case there is you are unmasking noise already present but at a lower db level than what you took care of.

It is more often than not the exhaust and or tires which can be troublesome to deal with as the it can be of high magnitude and permeates the air all around the vehicle and can come in from all over.

A loud exhaust drone can be dealt with by using a resonator, quieter muffler, etc, usually with no loss of performance, just a percieved loss and sometimes a gain.

Loud tires may need to be changed.

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If the noise is from stiff suspension bushings, rod ends, etc, that can be tough to deal with, sometimes you have to compromise a bit here and there to get to your end goal.

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Wind noise can be the most difficult. I have a serious issue with my Forester side windows, I am going to try adding a layer of double sided window glazing foam tape under the rubber moldings. If that is not enough then possible some sort of deflector around the offending areas. I may not be able to fix it to the level I would like to have.

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Rick

[SQ_Bronco]

Wind noise can be the most difficult. I have a serious issue with my Forester side windows, I am going to try adding a layer of double sided window glazing foam tape under the rubber moldings. If that is not enough then possible some sort of deflector around the offending areas. I may not be able to fix it to the level I would like to have.

Wind noise is the biggest issue IMO. I wouldn't say that it is necessarily "more offensive", but it is definitely "different" than you are used to hearing, plus it is usually much higher frequency.

If anyone ever has the chance to ride in an armored car, take it, just to listen to how it sounds. IMO that's the gold standard. When I was in Iraq I was able to drive a toyota SUV a couple of times; it had something like 1/4" steel plates in the doors and floor and 1" thick windows (I posted a picture of them a while back, but have lost it) and it was a dream- 90 mph and no road noise whatsoever. Completely dead. I'd pay a lot of money for a wind-noise-deadening solution that worked as well as that.

[Rudeboy]

I'd pay a lot of money for a wind-noise-deadening solution that worked as well as that.

Yes you would :)

[raamaudio]

Allot of wind noise used to come from around the mirrors but the manf have gotten better over the years.

I have removed mirrors to hear it with them off for a frame of reference, then tried different mirrors to find the quietest ones.

That is not so easy with modern cars but mirrors on them are huge, I have molded in smaller ones before that I found were less noisy, a royal pain in the arse though.

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In pickups and hatches, wagons, SUV, etc, worst usually being a pickup. There are cabin vents in the rear that usually are never noticed. Once you really go all out and deaden a vehicle on some you can really hear how loud they are.

It can blend in a bit with wind noise and make it sound louder.

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Rick

[jisturm]

Rick, I agree with your assessment. I need to dampen my Escape as well. It has probably the worst road noise of any vehicle I have owned aside from my older Jeep Wrangler.

[G Rahn]

Anyone want to make a billion? Get to work on that Active Noise Cancellation HU. :)

And Rick, I'm still going to get @you with an updated list of stuff I need- I made a detailed list a coupla weeks ago and the forum lockup ate it. :(