Forgot to mention the fit and finish on this car is incredible. You can hide minor imperfections in pictures, but when I spent a few days with the car, I realized how tightly done very aspect of the installation was performed. Great job Bing
Team Zapco
"once you go floor, you'll never go door"
"I can easily make the most expensive car stereo system sound like junk in less than 30 seconds"
Re: My Ultimate Fake Floor Build: Mosconi Focal Illusion - 2012 Genesis Sedan (600 pi
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRed
Forgot to mention the fit and finish on this car is incredible. You can hide minor imperfections in pictures, but when I spent a few days with the car, I realized how tightly done very aspect of the installation was performed. Great job Bing
Thanks for that Jim, and I only had to pay for a BBQ dinner for you give that compliment! Score!
but seriously, thanks, I always say pics dont show the real story, even ifi take em as close up as possible, its easy to make any install look great from a few feet away so i tried to get people to see it in person when possible...so they can duck their heads down into the heart of the build and inspect it for themselves...its not perfect of course, but i tried my best with my limited tools and skillset on this one
Re: My Ultimate Fake Floor Build: Mosconi Focal Illusion - 2012 Genesis Sedan (600 pi
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplicityinsound
Thanks for that Jim, and I only had to pay for a BBQ dinner for you give that compliment! Score!
but seriously, thanks, I always say pics dont show the real story, even ifi take em as close up as possible, its easy to make any install look great from a few feet away so i tried to get people to see it in person when possible...so they can duck their heads down into the heart of the build and inspect it for themselves...its not perfect of course, but i tried my best with my limited tools and skillset on this one
:P
where's the video...you can see how good the fit and finish is, and it's excellent! I bet after the BigRed treatment, it's sounding awesome!
Re: My Ultimate Fake Floor Build: Mosconi Focal Illusion - 2012 Genesis Sedan (600 pi
i also figure i should give my impression of the sound after Jim's tuning....the stuff he did made a world of difference to be honest, even to those who heard it at the meet last month.
Imaging: Center image is very solid and very high, to me its right below the rear view mirror, or behind it rather.
Depth: i would say its above average, its not deep like way out on the hood as some cars i have heard, but its hovering at the windshield or on some songs, beyond it.
Width: a lot of people of asked me how the width is given the placement of the drivers, but i have heard enough in board arrangement cars with awesome width to know this isnt a matter of what you see is what you get. width on this car is easily pillar to pillar, the wide nature of the interior helps also...the passenge side to me is way out there. It is perhaps weird to look at where the tweeter is and hear a high frequency note such as the tinker bells at the intro to Diana Krall's "pick yourself up" well to the left of them, but its undeniable.
Two seat SQ: as mentioned int he build, i tried something different with this car to enable it to be competitive in SQ2. how did that was to put the OEM center channel on a switch, and when you go to do 2 seat listening, you flip the switch to turn it on, and then go into the car's audio menu and turn surround processing on. This car acutally features a Logic 7 surround programming and as such, doent affect the width of the stage w hen you do this. after some tweaking by Jim, we sat in both seats and agreed that the center is pretty good, not as precise as the single seat setting but definetly in the center area and does not wander. everything else remains relatively the same...depth may be slightly better due to the center channel dragging it out a bit.
Subbass: this is where we had an eureka! moment during tuning. when we first started, the OEM signal source seemed to lack low freq response, like a rapid drop off below 35hz. Jim noticed immediately as the footsteps on "grandma's hands" was not audible. this baffled me throughout the first day of tuning as i clearled remember the signal analysis (done off one channel only) was pretty flat all the way down. Then, out of curiosity the second day, i wanted to see how the subs sounded when out of phase, and low and behold, i fliped the polarity on the left channel (was gonna do the right channel to make it out of phase competely) and bingo! all of a sudden all the subbass we were missing came out! so after some more playing around with it, I came to a singular conclusion, during the tapping of the oem sub signal (TWO PAIRS of wires to a single sub so prolly DVC), i either reversed the poliarity on one pair of the wires or the information i got from the info sheet i pulled off the web was wrong (it was for an earlier model year Genesis) on that pair of cables. Either way, this caused cancellation within the signal at the frequencies that were identical to each other before reaching the amp, and thus the ultra low freq was lost.
Once we corrected this error, the subs really really came alive. Both Jim and I were very impressed with just how smooth the subs were, blends in completely with the music, full of impact and extension and just in general among the best subs i have heard. Talking to ORCA after the tune, they suggested that a patented design they use on these subs, which does not allow distortion to rise above 3 percent?(i cant remember the spec exactly) may have something to do with it, along with the super high damping factor (6000?)...either way, they sound SUPERB!
Later on the second day, we did a tune for SPL, and i played my favorite bass track, Toccata from Bass Mekanik. if you are familiar with the song and the track, you know about the three gradually declining (freq wise) "sweeps" that open the song. the first was decent as its mostly in the midbass freq, the second got pretty loud which i think transitioned down into the subbass, the last sweep, blew my mind...i would say it starts at around 40hz and then just the bottom drops out of it...and holy crap this sweep was REALLY REALLY loud, it shook everything in the car wtih a lot of authority, keeping in mind that this is not a hatch or a suv, but a large luxury sedan with a trunk and the bass really only gets into the cabin via a small port placed below the empty oem sub location ont he rear deck. I would say this car is capable of reacing well into the high 130s, perhaps even 140, without too much effort. it also gave me a chance to try out the hyper drive switch on the Zero 1...whihc for short bursts before heat build up, can attain well over 4000 watts as compared to the normal setting which produced around 3000...while of course its not a gigantic increase, it did make the bass, especially the low stuff, even louder. of course, this was all done with the car off a APS55 cascade power supply, so i dont know what voltage drop was like, i would suspect it can get a lil louder with the car running.
but to be honest, its rare we can find a subwoofer with this combination of output, extension AND sound quality. Being this is a new product, i was a bit nervous using htem going into the build, despite repeated assurances by ORCA that they have a great combo of SQ and SPL, but i ahve to say that i am completely won over by them, and I will run them in my own car next time around.
Midbass: this is another arena this car really exceled. Both Jim and I felt this is hte best sounding Focal no.7 midbass we have ever heard. The impact is very strong, and its extension is quite excellent. on the RTA with no high pass engaged, we saw a natural extension down to i think jim said 40hz? we went with a 24 db slope at 60, and as we were listening to various tracks with good bass on them with the subs turned OFF, we both remarked that this car didnt seem to sound subless at all...
two things may have contributed to this (as its my 6th or 7th experience with the no.7), one is that the large sheet of focal blackhole 5 placed on the outter door skin direect behind the midbass driver helped to eliminate backwaves, and the other is once again the very high damping factor of the zero 1.
regardless of what it was, the midbass was very very good as well.
Midrange and highs: before we started tuning, the midrange and highs were slightly on the sharper side, but once Jim played with it, now its completely natural and smooth (as Jim's tune is known for), i listened to a few songs where the female vocals were known to be midrange heavy and can sound a bit blaring, but this time around, very smooth and balanced. the highs also showed a lot of detail yet once again, not sharp at all. Credit here goes to Jim for his awesome tuning
On the DVD changer tune versus the oem signal source, the biggest difference is everything sounded more open, with more resolution. if you go back and forth immedaitely off the same song, the difference is pretty apparent, though for daily listening, the oem signal source does a remarkable job..but the dvd changer will be used for single seat judging at comps.
overall, this could very well be the best sounding car that i have ever done...and i think it will do well in the highly competitive modified class at the comps
Re: My Ultimate Fake Floor Build: Mosconi Focal Illusion - 2012 Genesis Sedan (600 pi
I wanna hear again. Sounds like its a much diff beast.
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplicityinsound
i also figure i should give my impression of the sound after Jim's tuning....the stuff he did made a world of difference to be honest, even to those who heard it at the meet last month.
Imaging: Center image is very solid and very high, to me its right below the rear view mirror, or behind it rather.
Depth: i would say its above average, its not deep like way out on the hood as some cars i have heard, but its hovering at the windshield or on some songs, beyond it.
Width: a lot of people of asked me how the width is given the placement of the drivers, but i have heard enough in board arrangement cars with awesome width to know this isnt a matter of what you see is what you get. width on this car is easily pillar to pillar, the wide nature of the interior helps also...the passenge side to me is way out there. It is perhaps weird to look at where the tweeter is and hear a high frequency note such as the tinker bells at the intro to Diana Krall's "pick yourself up" well to the left of them, but its undeniable.
Two seat SQ: as mentioned int he build, i tried something different with this car to enable it to be competitive in SQ2. how did that was to put the OEM center channel on a switch, and when you go to do 2 seat listening, you flip the switch to turn it on, and then go into the car's audio menu and turn surround processing on. This car acutally features a Logic 7 surround programming and as such, doent affect the width of the stage w hen you do this. after some tweaking by Jim, we sat in both seats and agreed that the center is pretty good, not as precise as the single seat setting but definetly in the center area and does not wander. everything else remains relatively the same...depth may be slightly better due to the center channel dragging it out a bit.
Subbass: this is where we had an eureka! moment during tuning. when we first started, the OEM signal source seemed to lack low freq response, like a rapid drop off below 35hz. Jim noticed immediately as the footsteps on "grandma's hands" was not audible. this baffled me throughout the first day of tuning as i clearled remember the signal analysis (done off one channel only) was pretty flat all the way down. Then, out of curiosity the second day, i wanted to see how the subs sounded when out of phase, and low and behold, i fliped the polarity on the left channel (was gonna do the right channel to make it out of phase competely) and bingo! all of a sudden all the subbass we were missing came out! so after some more playing around with it, I came to a singular conclusion, during the tapping of the oem sub signal (TWO PAIRS of wires to a single sub so prolly DVC), i either reversed the poliarity on one pair of the wires or the information i got from the info sheet i pulled off the web was wrong (it was for an earlier model year Genesis) on that pair of cables. Either way, this caused cancellation within the signal at the frequencies that were identical to each other before reaching the amp, and thus the ultra low freq was lost.
Once we corrected this error, the subs really really came alive. Both Jim and I were very impressed with just how smooth the subs were, blends in completely with the music, full of impact and extension and just in general among the best subs i have heard. Talking to ORCA after the tune, they suggested that a patented design they use on these subs, which does not allow distortion to rise above 3 percent?(i cant remember the spec exactly) may have something to do with it, along with the super high damping factor (6000?)...either way, they sound SUPERB!
Later on the second day, we did a tune for SPL, and i played my favorite bass track, Toccata from Bass Mekanik. if you are familiar with the song and the track, you know about the three gradually declining (freq wise) "sweeps" that open the song. the first was decent as its mostly in the midbass freq, the second got pretty loud which i think transitioned down into the subbass, the last sweep, blew my mind...i would say it starts at around 40hz and then just the bottom drops out of it...and holy crap this sweep was REALLY REALLY loud, it shook everything in the car wtih a lot of authority, keeping in mind that this is not a hatch or a suv, but a large luxury sedan with a trunk and the bass really only gets into the cabin via a small port placed below the empty oem sub location ont he rear deck. I would say this car is capable of reacing well into the high 130s, perhaps even 140, without too much effort. it also gave me a chance to try out the hyper drive switch on the Zero 1...whihc for short bursts before heat build up, can attain well over 4000 watts as compared to the normal setting which produced around 3000...while of course its not a gigantic increase, it did make the bass, especially the low stuff, even louder. of course, this was all done with the car off a APS55 cascade power supply, so i dont know what voltage drop was like, i would suspect it can get a lil louder with the car running.
but to be honest, its rare we can find a subwoofer with this combination of output, extension AND sound quality. Being this is a new product, i was a bit nervous using htem going into the build, despite repeated assurances by ORCA that they have a great combo of SQ and SPL, but i ahve to say that i am completely won over by them, and I will run them in my own car next time around.
Midbass: this is another arena this car really exceled. Both Jim and I felt this is hte best sounding Focal no.7 midbass we have ever heard. The impact is very strong, and its extension is quite excellent. on the RTA with no high pass engaged, we saw a natural extension down to i think jim said 40hz? we went with a 24 db slope at 60, and as we were listening to various tracks with good bass on them with the subs turned OFF, we both remarked that this car didnt seem to sound subless at all...
two things may have contributed to this (as its my 6th or 7th experience with the no.7), one is that the large sheet of focal blackhole 5 placed on the outter door skin direect behind the midbass driver helped to eliminate backwaves, and the other is once again the very high damping factor of the zero 1.
regardless of what it was, the midbass was very very good as well.
Midrange and highs: before we started tuning, the midrange and highs were slightly on the sharper side, but once Jim played with it, now its completely natural and smooth (as Jim's tune is known for), i listened to a few songs where the female vocals were known to be midrange heavy and can sound a bit blaring, but this time around, very smooth and balanced. the highs also showed a lot of detail yet once again, not sharp at all. Credit here goes to Jim for his awesome tuning
On the DVD changer tune versus the oem signal source, the biggest difference is everything sounded more open, with more resolution. if you go back and forth immedaitely off the same song, the difference is pretty apparent, though for daily listening, the oem signal source does a remarkable job..but the dvd changer will be used for single seat judging at comps.
overall, this could very well be the best sounding car that i have ever done...and i think it will do well in the highly competitive modified class at the comps
Re: My Ultimate Fake Floor Build: Mosconi Focal Illusion - 2012 Genesis Sedan (600 pi
Bing -
this is an amazing install! It definatly gives me a few ideas i'm going to be working on for my own install (insert nuts & rear deck vent). I had just posted a question about venting the rear deck and here it is. Thanks again for sharing your insight on the installs for what worked, what didn't and how you take it from concept to reality.
Re: My Ultimate Fake Floor Build: Mosconi Focal Illusion - 2012 Genesis Sedan (600 pi
OCD FTW!
Incredible work, Bing. Would love to hear this car...guess I need to make a drive up the coast sometime soon!
Question: Is this trunk a very dark grey carpet, or black? If dark grey, would you be kind enough to tell me specifically what SEM Dye color you used to match the carpet in the trunk? And also where you sourced the carpet and it's color?
This info would help me out heaps as I just picked up a 2012 Hyundai Santa Fe SE AWD with the dark grey leather/cloth combo interior and am gathering all the supplies I'll need to complete the install in the rear hatch area.
I really appreciate you taking the massive time to document and post your installs! Your builds are always inspiring and give me a jumpstart to get to work on my install.
Re: My Ultimate Fake Floor Build: Mosconi Focal Illusion - 2012 Genesis Sedan (600 pi
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbfoto
OCD FTW!
Incredible work, Bing. Would love to hear this car...guess I need to make a drive up the coast sometime soon!
Question: Is this trunk a very dark grey carpet, or black? If dark grey, would you be kind enough to tell me specifically what SEM Dye color you used to match the carpet in the trunk? And also where you sourced the carpet and it's color?
This info would help me out heaps as I just picked up a 2012 Hyundai Santa Fe SE AWD with the dark grey leather/cloth combo interior and am gathering all the supplies I'll need to complete the install in the rear hatch area.
I really appreciate you taking the massive time to document and post your installs! Your builds are always inspiring and give me a jumpstart to get to work on my install.
black carpet and i used smoke or something. let me look it up on monday if i still have a can left over. i basically bought 5 different cans and did samples of each and used the one that works the best.
Re: My Ultimate Fake Floor Build: Mosconi Focal Illusion - 2012 Genesis Sedan (600 pi
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplicityinsound
black carpet and i used smoke or something. let me look it up on monday if i still have a can left over. i basically bought 5 different cans and did samples of each and used the one that works the best.
b
Thanks Bing! Really appreciate it. The time I have to complete this install is limited, so I'd like to get it right the first time and eliminate any potential re-do's!
Re: My Ultimate Fake Floor Build: Mosconi Focal Illusion - 2012 Genesis Sedan (600 pi
well, remember your dark carpet may be a different shade than mine...i wouldnt trust it. take a piece of your stock carpet and go and find a local store tha carries SEM, then pick a few paint colors that range from very close to the stock carpet color to a few shades lighter, come back and mist it all over black carpet and see what comes closest
Re: My Ultimate Fake Floor Build: Mosconi Focal Illusion - 2012 Genesis Sedan (600 pi
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplicityinsound
well, remember your dark carpet may be a different shade than mine...i wouldnt trust it. take a piece of your stock carpet and go and find a local store tha carries SEM, then pick a few paint colors that range from very close to the stock carpet color to a few shades lighter, come back and mist it all over black carpet and see what comes closest
Re: My Ultimate Fake Floor Build: Mosconi Focal Illusion - 2012 Genesis Sedan (600 pi
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianAbington
This car is gorgeous. I love that it looks so simple but underneath it is actually quite complex.
My question for you is what did you do to the plexi trim pieces to give it that fogged look?
Is this just on the top and bottom of these trim pieces?
Are the edges that the led's are mounted to and shine through polished or are they fogged too?
When you see the ilumination in person does it cast a smooth glow across the whole area or is it pin pointed from each individual led light?
i hit em with 60 grit then 100 grit then 150 grit...all surfaces.
as for dotting or flowing, it depends on the angle you are looking at them...from standing there you see mostly a smooth flow, if you lower yourself down and stare right into the edge or close to it you see the individual LEDs...hard to avoid it unless i have discovered i have more than 3" of plexi for the light to travel through. and most cases, that isnt possible...just takes up way too much space
...that is, my first since I missed listening to it at the gtg.
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Linear Mode
