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Old 02-12-2017   #326
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Default Re: 12 fit SQ 2 seat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elgrosso View Post
You got clipping alert in dirac? That must be high

Yeah definitely! Figured it out , the class AB amp doesn't like to be bridged or I have a dud channel ... I switched it back to two channel and it works just fine
no clipping. I think I fried another diaphragm.

Something funky going on with that amp channel

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI
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Old 02-14-2017   #327
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Default Re: 12 fit SQ 2 seat

Got the materials to start my kicks.

Steve your inspiration is about to make form.

I can't frikkin wait . I'm going to try to get a 8 down there

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI
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Old 02-14-2017   #328
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Default Re: 12 fit SQ 2 seat

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Originally Posted by oabeieo View Post
Got the materials to start my kicks.

Steve your inspiration is about to make form.

I can't frikkin wait . I'm going to try to get a 8 down there
Yeah!
Will you cut metal?

Horny Froggy...
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Old 02-15-2017   #329
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Default Re: 12 fit SQ 2 seat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elgrosso View Post
Yeah!
Will you cut metal?
If I have to....

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI
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Old 02-16-2017   #330
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Default Re: 12 fit SQ 2 seat

I got the B&C 10NW64-4 woofers installed.

Wowzers that is a amazing midbass.
If you like the warm midbass like a dyn has this speaker makes tons and tons of it.

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI
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Old 02-16-2017   #331
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Default Re: 12 fit SQ 2 seat

Well,
I got off my butt and did it..
A solid pre-tune had to gain my horns up a lot. I added the sub into measurement..
I FINALLY got a good tune! NO i mean zero clipping at a pretty loud measurement
measured at -26db and mik gain 0

Fort some reason everything came together , I need to finish my custom work and show this thing. Geesh its pretty frikkin bad frikkin ass now...

But for some reason I have a bit of pre ring now....I cant hear it, its coming from my !/2 order filter (3db octave) high pass on mid-range that's causing it. I have 50hz too high and its a linear phase filter....easy fix but its inaudible. If the mid-range could be heard at 50hz than i would have issues but the mic picks it up...








image hosting over 10mb



Im stoked! I DO NOT want to mess with it for at least two three weeks and enjoy this tune a bit

I have a tiny spot at 8khz that it goes farther than +/_ 10db So the correction has virtually no clipping now....

OH my sub sounds so so so good now...AHHHHHHHH its the shit!

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI
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Old 02-16-2017   #332
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Default Re: 12 fit SQ 2 seat

Dirac really truly is the best thing since sliced bread.
I have no clue why anyone wouldn't seriously consider adding one.
No processor that I know of can give such a good sounding tune that I know of minus maybe APL1 or a 2x4HDs with hundreds of hours learning how to fix an impulse response and than applying it. This thing does it right now. And does it good and does it correctly.

This ain't no ms8 auto tune. Nothing like it. Not even in the same league, this device really truly does an amazing job. It's truly amazing , this technology really should be in everything it's that good.

I've been tuning systems for some time now, I know a good tuner can think. And how egos can get in the way. And that's what it is. This device takes away the DIY spirit of tuning but fuck me who cares! Do you want a car that sound good or do you want mediocrity.


Okay enough bragging I'm just rubbin it in now. (Kidding)
It really is pretty dam good.

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI
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Old 02-16-2017   #333
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Default Re: 12 fit SQ 2 seat

Sweet!
Is this with the new 10" then? Where do you cross everything?
I'm surprised by your target (dirac's?) I thought you were a bass head
And the horns that push up to 18khz! Mine drop at 16.
But big L/R variations on horns, is it the updash mount?
And how is the noise floor?

It's cool that an experienced tuner confirms Dirac is a great piece for cars too.
I had no doubt since it's better than everything I had, but I don't have much experience listening to top score cars to compare.

Horny Froggy...
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Old 02-16-2017   #334
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Default Re: 12 fit SQ 2 seat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elgrosso View Post
Sweet!
Is this with the new 10" then? Where do you cross everything?
I'm surprised by your target (dirac's?) I thought you were a bass head
And the horns that push up to 18khz! Mine drop at 16.
But big L/R variations on horns, is it the updash mount?
And how is the noise floor?

It's cool that an experienced tuner confirms Dirac is a great piece for cars too.
I had no doubt since it's better than everything I had, but I don't have much experience listening to top score cars to compare.


I haven't heard that many top score cars.
I've heard 2 of Wayne Watkins cars which were no joke bad to the bone and couldn't have been done better and I heard a local guy that won iasca finals Matt somethingrather he had an Audi with driveracks and arc amps and it was good....
And years ago I heard multiple vendor demo cars that were just ok but nothing to write home about. And a whole lotta amateur competitors and it was mixed....

I was the guy that never competed but brought my car and let folks listen....I have only had two other cars that made it to a complete install before I sold them . Both horn cars ...

But man, linear phase is a whole different ball game. It really really steps things up and with this kind of dsp power tuning is finally not a process that takes weeks and weeks or months sometimes. You know right away if there's a install issue....

What's also cool is I know for certain you car sounds probably the same as mine in many ways. Yeah difffrent equipment and locations but overall sq you car has got to be the frikkin shit. That's how confident I know this processor works.


Crossovers , 1.2k on Stevens audio compneo CD with minihorns on dash 20db per oactave
6ND430s on dash 1.2kLP 20db per oactave and 200hz 3db per oactave HP
10NW64 30hz high pass at 9db per oactaveHP and 200hz 99db per oactaveLP
Sa15d2-X2 no subsonic and 50hz 9db per oactave LP

All crossover LR alignment (6db down at crossover) and linear phase. minus the 20hz overlap on sub to midbass.

I'm not a huge bass head but I do not want to miss out on the 10hz-30hz response. That's why I like 2-15s and my measurements are with bass knob about 1/3 way up. That way I can give the song that need some bass love a bit more. And with a shallow filter on sub it blends up to 120hz so the more I move bass up all it does is make a gradual incline on FR. no sharp cutoffs . Ick .

The bass is by far the best thing. I have never ever heard bass in a car like this.
It hits all the notes with transients and is so smooth it's crazy. The phase correction from sub to midbass makes the system...
And having perfect filters for L/R makes the psychoacoustic stuff the best. Canter isn't some mono flat sounding singer that was forced by Time alignment and screwed up combfiltering combo it's outside the car sounding and dead center.

I need to get my kicks done. Although I have enough gain at300hz because of Iraq the acoustical cancellation makes 300hz sound soggy. Luckily it's the only thing soggy. That's from mids firing at each other. I shouldn't have done that but that's how I wanted the dash to look.....so I'll do kicks. But for now....


Not Iraq,, Dirac silly phone text

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI

Last edited by oabeieo; 02-16-2017 at 11:30 PM..
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Old 02-16-2017   #335
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Default Re: 12 fit SQ 2 seat

But dood I get responce to 20k.
I don't know why Dirac only shows to 16. RTA shows 20k.
I think Dirac shows that because the last measurement point (the one you can't get rid of) won't let you drag it to 20....so I think it's a Dirac graph error.

On rew it plays past 20, I'm at 48k rew 64bit fft so I can see to 22k with a rectangle window.

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI
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Old 02-16-2017   #336
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Default Re: 12 fit SQ 2 seat

I don't think is a good idea to have Dirac add the heavy heavy bass in a correction as part of the correction. Get the phase right for a flat level with Dirac and use bass knob to boost bass to what sounds good in car. It's all minimum phase anyway so amplitude will move phase with it. Like perfectly also in minimum phase. So why not save the output in Dirac and just use a bass knob.

Plus a boss knob does not act like a IIR filter so it won't have any time stretches in it.


And during my pretune i moved the mic all over from box corners to corners in the square I do measurements...

I knocked down only peaks that both left and right have together... the rest of the peaks that were not shared and independent to one channel I left alone. And it barley got me to the 20db (10db+/-) threshold. I wanted to avoid a whole bunch of twisting frequencies around and to be sure nothing will be moved twice .... works good. I'll stay with this method.

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI

Last edited by oabeieo; 02-16-2017 at 11:52 PM..
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Old 02-17-2017   #337
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Default Re: 12 fit SQ 2 seat

Very cool.
I completely forgot about the bass knob, I think I have the HD one but never used it!


Quote:
But dood I get responce to 20k.
I don't know why Dirac only shows to 16. RTA shows 20k.
I think Dirac shows that because the last measurement point (the one you can't get rid of) won't let you drag it to 20....so I think it's a Dirac graph error.

On rew it plays past 20, I'm at 48k rew 64bit fft so I can see to 22k with a rectangle window.
Well REW or Dirac I go up to 16khz then drop fast, 18kHz is like -10/-15db already.
No big deal for 18K I don't hear this, except super loud.
But 16/17 I would want more.


Quote:
I don't think is a good idea to have Dirac add the heavy heavy bass in a correction as part of the correction. Get the phase right for a flat level with Dirac and use bass knob to boost bass to what sounds good in car. It's all minimum phase anyway so amplitude will move phase with it. Like perfectly also in minimum phase. So why not save the output in Dirac and just use a bass knob.

Plus a boss knob does not act like a IIR filter so it won't have any time stretches in it.


And during my pretune i moved the mic all over from box corners to corners in the square I do measurements...

I knocked down only peaks that both left and right have together... the rest of the peaks that were not shared and independent to one channel I left alone. And it barley got me to the 20db (10db+/-) threshold. I wanted to avoid a whole bunch of twisting frequencies around and to be sure nothing will be moved twice .... works good. I'll stay with this method.
Makes a lot of sense, I'll try that, moving the mic or using more than 8 sweeps for pre-tuning.
And the focus on what's common in L/R.

Horny Froggy...
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Old 02-17-2017   #338
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Default Re: 12 fit SQ 2 seat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elgrosso View Post
Very cool.
I completely forgot about the bass knob, I think I have the HD one but never used it!




Well REW or Dirac I go up to 16khz then drop fast, 18kHz is like -10/-15db already.
No big deal for 18K I don't hear this, except super loud.
But 16/17 I would want more.




Makes a lot of sense, I'll try that, moving the mic or using more than 8 sweeps for pre-tuning.
And the focus on what's common in L/R.

I'm going to have to validate my post tune high frequency roll off ......

But yeah if you're doing sweeps for pre-tuning instead of RTA I would just copy cat your exact Durack measurement points and do three averages of each point a total of 27 measurements if I remember correctly

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI
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Old 02-17-2017   #339
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Default Re: 12 fit SQ 2 seat

Yeah I used to do 8 sweeps in REW like Dirac. But I want to try more, non averaged 16 or + to get a precise picture. In fact I want to find out where the summing at XO starts to get real messy and where itís good enough. Just to see if thereís a specific point that I should/could avoid.
In Dirac we have 3 sweeps per position, but I think the first one is only used for time reference not for the final filter (other wise it would put too much weight on the selected side)

Horny Froggy...
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Old 02-17-2017   #340
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Default Re: 12 fit SQ 2 seat

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Originally Posted by Elgrosso View Post
Yeah I used to do 8 sweeps in REW like Dirac. But I want to try more, non averaged 16 or + to get a precise picture. In fact I want to find out where the summing at XO starts to get real messy and where itís good enough. Just to see if thereís a specific point that I should/could avoid.
In Dirac we have 3 sweeps per position, but I think the first one is only used for time reference not for the final filter (other wise it would put too much weight on the selected side)
If it was for timing reference there would be 4 a ttiming reference for left and right .... because it only does one extra sweep The distance from the other side would be wrong then . I'm just playing devils advocate let's find out I'm going to ask the question on the other forms ...

But yeah I will do a minimum of 3 to 4 measurements per mic location
And then average all of them together into one. So 68 measurements if did 4 sweeps per location.... that way you know you get a really good average .

I was thinking about making some sort of jig that I could use to hold the mic and set it in the seat that is set up for all of the locations

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI
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Old 02-17-2017   #341
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Default Re: 12 fit SQ 2 seat

My jig would look like this

img host

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI
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Old 02-17-2017   #342
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Default Re: 12 fit SQ 2 seat

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Originally Posted by oabeieo View Post
My jig would look like this

img host



Horny Froggy...
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Old 02-17-2017   #343
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Default Re: 12 fit SQ 2 seat

Maybe it works like REW, when you define a reference Left or right, to measure Left or right, except here it measures both in the same time.
I don;t see any other use of this first sweep, since itís always the same side.
If not then it's even better, because we could use this sweep to move and add another point.

Something cool would be 2,3 or + mics on a jig to increase the points!

Horny Froggy...
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Old 02-17-2017   #344
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Default Re: 12 fit SQ 2 seat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elgrosso View Post
Maybe it works like REW, when you define a reference Left or right, to measure Left or right, except here it measures both in the same time.
I don;t see any other use of this first sweep, since itís always the same side.
If not then it's even better, because we could use this sweep to move and add another point.

Something cool would be 2,3 or + mics on a jig to increase the points!

I've never noticed it does both at the same time .... I thought it did left right left , something to discover for sure

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI
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Old 02-17-2017   #345
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Default Re: 12 fit SQ 2 seat

Youíre right not in the same time but I meant left/right/left. I canít check right now but I think thereís a way to do right/left/right... the recording channel maybe?

Horny Froggy...
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Old 02-18-2017   #346
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Default Re: 12 fit SQ 2 seat

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Originally Posted by Elgrosso View Post
Youíre right not in the same time but I meant left/right/left. I canít check right now but I think thereís a way to do right/left/right... the recording channel maybe?
The recording channel is the USB input for the Mic...


I've got some questions out on other forms will see what pops up

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI
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Old 02-20-2017   #347
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Default Re: 12 fit SQ 2 seat

Put the big horns up top.
Eric Stevens drivers. That shit sounds good. And really powerful. Some serious clean clean energy happenin

I also ordered a TRu line amp. That should be good. I'm 99%sure helix uses a line amp as part of the board. Minidsp doesn't so this will be a extrernal one. No big.
But excited still. This will be a once and for all final fix to the gay ass -10db situation.
out of the mini thenoise floor raises about 10db also, but at 120db 110 is still quite acceptable. So should be moot

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

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Old 02-20-2017   #348
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Default Re: 12 fit SQ 2 seat

Was so excited did a sofa type tune, images good both sides

Just a small post Dirac eq trick to take take some of the frequencies that are at the peak of the 1st comb and sounds good! Both sides strong center. Decently wide.
Widthis limited but not totally collapsed ...

But still have a 300hz problem. Must do kicks. But for what it is. Dam.

Got the 10s playing to 300 now with a 48db filter. As good as it gets for sound behind me.
Dirac does a beautiful job at making them disappear. The phase alignment is measured that's why. So of course it would.

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI
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Old 02-21-2017   #349
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Default Re: 12 fit SQ 2 seat

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Originally Posted by oabeieo View Post
Was so excited did a sofa type tune, images good both sides

Just a small post Dirac eq trick to take take some of the frequencies that are at the peak of the 1st comb and sounds good! Both sides strong center. Decently wide.
Widthis limited but not totally collapsed ...

But still have a 300hz problem. Must do kicks. But for what it is. Dam.

Got the 10s playing to 300 now with a 48db filter. As good as it gets for sound behind me.
Dirac does a beautiful job at making them disappear. The phase alignment is measured that's why. So of course it would.
So you think thereís a different algorithm treatment between sofa/chair? I tried sofa at the beginning but kept it a too short time to notice anything.

Whatís your issue at 300Hz, is it just audible or does it appear on measurements?

Horny Froggy...
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Old 02-21-2017   #350
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Default Re: 12 fit SQ 2 seat

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Originally Posted by Elgrosso View Post
So you think thereís a different algorithm treatment between sofa/chair? I tried sofa at the beginning but kept it a too short time to notice anything.

Whatís your issue at 300Hz, is it just audible or does it appear on measurements?
Yes diffrent algo ....

1st measurement goes in middle of car. And treat seats as sofa....works very decent .....need PLds Low tho for it to work. I don't think a door speaker crossed higher than about 300hz will work. Left and right midbass need to be within 90 acoustical degrees..... the passenger will be the inverse of driver so if driver is 90 deg pass will be 270deg. Once past the Schroeder than it becomes eq trickery and Low low low PLD is a must....so for me I have 4" PLD on horns you have probably 12-15" so it works on mine .....I wouldn't even waste my time with yours it won't work right....

Well I take that back ,, you could pull the right HF curtain all way over to your crossover point between doers and horns , don't use a mid , and have a phase rotation from doors , it would have small imaging problem around 400-800hz but you could cross your horns lower to like 630hz and probably get away with a fair to fair sound stage for both sides that way..... if you mid had a low PLD like less than about 6" it could work decent.....Basicly let the horns do there thing as low as possible as they were designed for, than a small phase turn on one of doors ...Dirac would do that but Dirac ups also screw up horn dispersion patterns, so curtain them and do self eq .


My mids PLD is 6" and 4" on horns, but my car is only 3.5' wide also....
Your is more like 4.25-5' wide.... still narrow compared to a truck but makes it to where you have to use kicks....and or flooor firing forward midbass like under brake pedal and passenger footwell ....that would get PLds down....

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

https://youtu.be/VgU6LXY-AjI
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