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Old 03-20-2017   #26
 
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Default Re: audi A4 b8 2011 : werner's hifi

Quote:
Originally Posted by werner sline View Post

It's part of the fun in this hobby : testing, trying different positions and...
I'll say AMEN to that!

I am testing a center channel setup these days using an old Logitec 2.1 satellite speaker (computer speakers) as a donner

Wires are as thin as they can gat, cheap plastic box, some acrylic Scotch tape

And it sounds pretty awesome!

I'll bet those Mylard don't really sound as bad as they seem.


I'll soon replace the center channel with a FaitalPro 3FE22 4 ohm in a 3D printed POD

But I am also going to test a MICCA COVO-S - you should check them out, wonderful set of speakers for about 40USD!!!

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Old 03-20-2017   #27
 
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Default Re: audi A4 b8 2011 : werner's hifi

Quote:
Originally Posted by eddieg View Post
I'll say AMEN to that!

I am testing a center channel setup these days using an old Logitec 2.1 satellite speaker (computer speakers) as a donner

Wires are as thin as they can gat, cheap plastic box, some acrylic Scotch tape

And it sounds pretty awesome!

I'll bet those Mylard don't really sound as bad as they seem.


I'll soon replace the center channel with a FaitalPro 3FE22 4 ohm in a 3D printed POD

But I am also going to test a MICCA COVO-S - you should check them out, wonderful set of speakers for about 40USD!!!
thank you ! it's all about fun and the universal pleasure of listening to your own favorite music !
I hear SO MANY different type of music , no one around me has so many various favorite artists !

I can slip a gangstarr CD then change to simply red , try some german rap from Fettes brot and end with some french De palmas ! Then the next day I will love to hear some robert cray , hoobastank, some good old steel pulse reggae and go nuts with some foo fighters !

hifi in a car is your own personal space to rock to your favourite songs as loud and as long as you want !
Sometimes I put my girlfriend or my father at the wheel to listen to music they like or that we both like. I try to share the unique pleasure of Car hifi this way !

Well, eddieg, just like you I like to try various speakers. Sometimes only for a few hours ! just like those myllard speakers !
then I put them on a shelf and forget about them. Until one day I have evolved enough on my setups and tricks to want to try them again !!

The little micca box could indeed be fun to test, maybe right under the dash board with some separate tweeters. I have some trouble putting box on the dashboard : that's big for me.

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Old 03-20-2017   #28
 
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Default Re: audi A4 b8 2011 : werner's hifi

I am using a 128GB MP3 inventory full of music types from every possible end of the earth I could lay my hands on.

And I am growing out of space looking for a better smartphone - thinking of the Xiaomi MI MIX with 256GB internal storage + a Micro SD along with it

Any ways the MICCAs are source point - they have a tweeter embedded instead of the usual dust cap.

This is why I am testing the FaitalPro in conjunction to the MICCAs

Oh and thanks for the opinion about the Mylars!

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Old 03-20-2017   #29
 
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Default Re: audi A4 b8 2011 : werner's hifi

Quote:
Originally Posted by eddieg View Post
I am using a 128GB MP3 inventory full of music types from every possible end of the earth I could lay my hands on.

And I am growing out of space looking for a better smartphone - thinking of the Xiaomi MI MIX with 256GB internal storage + a Micro SD along with it

Any ways the MICCAs are source point - they have a tweeter embedded instead of the usual dust cap.

This is why I am testing the FaitalPro in conjunction to the MICCAs

Oh and thanks for the opinion about the Mylars!
any pics of your setup ? I didn't know the faitalpro loudspeakers
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Old 03-20-2017   #30
 
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Default Re: audi A4 b8 2011 : werner's hifi

Currently I am using a Logitech temporary center speaker - the FP pod is on its way from printing and the MICCAs are on their way over seas.

Will take a few good weeks until I get to it.

you can see my curent setup (without the center) - here

The Logitech speaker is currently simply taped in the middle of the dash

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Old 03-20-2017   #31
 
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Default Re: audi A4 b8 2011 : werner's hifi

about mids on the dash, here are my FOUNTEK FR88ex

cheap, aluminium cone, large band, small magnet
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Old 03-20-2017   #32
 
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Default Re: audi A4 b8 2011 : werner's hifi

but a tiny bit too big

so well, let's CUT THEM !
it's ok, I bought 4 of those mids if I mess it up !

so it went well, speakers fit perfectly and, man, do they sound well !!

these little thing bring SO MUCH ! I've found my favorite setup to be an awkward filtering :
from 3.5KHz @ 6Db/oct to 6KHz @ 12 Db/oct

why starting so high ? why not a traditionnal 350 - 500 Hz @ 12 Db/oct ?

well midtones ( 500 - 800 Hz ) tend to sound a bit too loud and harsh when playing very loud. maybe because of the dashboard / windshield angle , maybe because of the tiny volume under the speackers...

cutting at a very soft slope like 6Db/oct makes the mids speackers give some soft midtones, yep quite deep in the down mid/low range and that will help the doors up

at man, those mids do bring exactly what's missing between a loudspeaker in the door and the tweeter !
you don't have to cut your tweeter too low and you don't have to expect your speakers in the door to play the upper midrange

plus the FOUNTEK can play very loud and soft !

in fact, I got them in the car since 5 years now and I never wanted to change them !
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Old 03-20-2017   #33
 
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Default Re: audi A4 b8 2011 : werner's hifi

So since 5 years I got 2 things I never changed because I was satisfied:

- the sub box with 2 focal subwoofers
- the midrange speakers in the dashboard

2 years ago I found some satisfying tweeters : Helix C1t

I did some testing : tweeter are easy to test, no need to build a box !

So I compaired with the various tweeters I had
- on one picture you can even see the helix dome midrange... that I didn't like !
- you can see a big VIFA tweeters : impressive one, but too "ssshh" on the voices ( ehm, can somebody help my english ? )

My personnal goal is to be able to listen to rock, hard rock, blues as it should be : LOUD ! but electric guitars should not make my ears bleed !
In my opinion, those are the music where higher notes very important.
I also listened to some music where the sound stage should sound far away )

by the way :Maybe I am too sensitive, but I always turned down the 2 - 3 KHz area. right in the electric guitar range ! ( I don't play any instrument... )

Listening loud is so much enjoyable, it brings a live feeling ! so I do whatever strange filtering it takes to get the best out of the speakers

for example, those C1t tweeters are at their best above 8 Khz @ 12Db / oct !
very high, uh ? In fact they are able to play very low BUT agressively in my opinion. With this setting, they still bring at of frequencies under the cutting point ( with the pioneer P90, you can turn off every speakers and listen to the tweeters alone : weird but very interesting ! )

The helix bring at of details to the light : it's really enjoable to listen to all your favorite tracks again hear NEW sounds or details you didn't notice !

ISN'T THAT WHAT WE ALL LIKE TO DO ??

So I decided to let the mids to 6.3KHz and the tweeters start at 8 KHz
sometimes I try to change this setup but always come back to it !
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Old 03-20-2017   #34
 
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Default Re: audi A4 b8 2011 : werner's hifi

So for the first time in this car, I built a part you can actually see.

I choose the door triangle position to get a wide staging.

I choose to aim the center of the opposite window and started to modify the original plastic triangle : there is not turning back !

I used a focal plastic shell for tweeter and glued it in place. Then, as usually I shaped the final form with black plastic bond used for repairing car bumpers

I spray glued some black fabric to make it very discreet.

I 'm very satisfied with the end results, It's still ok after 2 years in our shiny country
the last picture show the original tweeter triangle, I will post pictures of my finished triangles !
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Old 03-20-2017   #35
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Default Re: audi A4 b8 2011 : werner's hifi

Quote:
Originally Posted by werner sline View Post
So for the first time in this car, I built a part you can actually see.

I choose the door triangle position to get a wide staging.

I choose to aim the center of the opposite window and started to modify the original plastic triangle : there is not turning back !

I used a focal plastic shell for tweeter and glued it in place. Then, as usually I shaped the final form with black plastic bond used for repairing car bumpers
Hi
I spray glued some black fabric to make it very discreet.

I 'm very satisfied with the end results, It's still ok after 2 years in our shiny country
the last picture show the original tweeter triangle, I will post pictures of my finished triangles !
How does it look with the drivers side door closed? At least on the A5 the door sail is pretty close to the dash, I was looking for a way to maybe modify the tweeter position too.

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Old 03-21-2017   #36
 
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Default Re: audi A4 b8 2011 : werner's hifi

Lovely speakers, the Founteks that is.

They are a bit "flat" to the feel, some do call it "soft" as you've mentioned.
For me they are a bit lacking power when compare them to leading Tier 1-3 speakers such as scan speaks, Hybrid audio etc etc

But it isn't a disadvantage, it's a matter of taste and tuning.
To me they were on the neutral side (not natural, neutral) not here not there... simply good speakers especially for what they cost - money well spent!

The Vifa's I guess those are the X25's ? right - ring radiator tweeters.

It is very important to aim right, on axis, most ring radiators I've had sounded a bit sharp and yes with a bit of a hiss to them, turn them a bit sideways off axis and it may give you much better results.

For me, usually the 5Khz is the most problematic area to tune but it depends on so many variables - what I like about this thread is that you do what you like and although you try and test constantly new options - you know very well what to stick to.

And if that is not enough - a wonderful, wonderful car!

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Old 03-22-2017   #37
 
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Default Re: audi A4 b8 2011 : werner's hifi

Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbo6209 View Post
How does it look with the drivers side door closed? At least on the A5 the door sail is pretty close to the dash, I was looking for a way to maybe modify the tweeter position too.
indeed, I will post pictures
that's why I build my tweeters much more higher than the stock ones

check where I drill the hole and how I aimed them
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Old 03-22-2017   #38
 
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Default Re: audi A4 b8 2011 : werner's hifi

Quote:
Originally Posted by eddieg View Post
Lovely speakers, the Founteks that is.

They are a bit "flat" to the feel, some do call it "soft" as you've mentioned.
For me they are a bit lacking power when compare them to leading Tier 1-3 speakers such as scan speaks, Hybrid audio etc etc

But it isn't a disadvantage, it's a matter of taste and tuning.
To me they were on the neutral side (not natural, neutral) not here not there... simply good speakers especially for what they cost - money well spent!

The Vifa's I guess those are the X25's ? right - ring radiator tweeters.

It is very important to aim right, on axis, most ring radiators I've had sounded a bit sharp and yes with a bit of a hiss to them, turn them a bit sideways off axis and it may give you much better results.

For me, usually the 5Khz is the most problematic area to tune but it depends on so many variables - what I like about this thread is that you do what you like and although you try and test constantly new options - you know very well what to stick to.

And if that is not enough - a wonderful, wonderful car!
thank you
good to hear that we both had the same feelings about products we both tested. it is not easy because each person tends to love a different sound and listens in a different car, with different settings and electronics.
What better 8cm could I try ?

actually I may not go in a serious, scientific way of doing things. I even have an ISSUE WITH LOUDSPEAKERS :
let me explain you ; imagine me as a stand up comedian !

" loudspeakers are like women for me ! when I see one, i stare at her, check out how she's made : i'm all in love and full of hope : I want this one all for me !!
I can see myself touching the cones, softly screwing her in , and finally, the moment of extasy ; I hear how she sounds !
Then I get to touch all her buttons, find her best sound, get the best out of our relation to the maximum level !
and well, then I realize we don't fit together : actually, my ears can't stand her anymore from this moment on !
I NEED NEW LOUDSPEAKERS !

well, don't get me wrong : in fact, it's just about loudspeakers ! I got the same woman since 9 years but I went through 50 loudspeakers since 1996 !
I can change loudspeakers all day long without problems. Try that with women, you will have tons of problems !! "

anyway, that my little addiction, nothing major though

so well , how does it show in my car ?
well in the DOORS !

these are the speakers I tested, once, twice and more. And I still got them all ! and will put them in again to see what my experience of setting brings

- focal is200 20cm
- vifa 13cm
- hertz mille 16cm
- dynaudio mgt160 16cm
- jvc 16cm coax
- trump 16cm ( triangle copy )
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Old 03-22-2017   #39
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Default Re: audi A4 b8 2011 : werner's hifi

I see you are running 2 amps... Any idea what the max draw is on the two? I'm debating on my build going with 2 genesis profile 3 amps with a total max draw of just under 140amps, or a single class D (jl hd900/5 or Arc xdi 1200.6) with a draw of around 60amps

Did you do anything to upgrade the cars electrical system ie big 3 bigger alternator etc?

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Old 03-22-2017   #40
 
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Default Re: audi A4 b8 2011 : werner's hifi

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Originally Posted by bilbo6209 View Post
I see you are running 2 amps... Any idea what the max draw is on the two? I'm debating on my build going with 2 genesis profile 3 amps with a total max draw of just under 140amps, or a single class D (jl hd900/5 or Arc xdi 1200.6) with a draw of around 60amps

Did you do anything to upgrade the cars electrical system ie big 3 bigger alternator etc?
I think the max draw is what the amp could POSSIBLY draw : I mean if you put same speakers on 1 or 2 amps, they will still draw the same current because the load stays the same
I didn't modify anything on my car : still got the same battery, the same alternator. At maximum SPL, there is no obvious signs of underpowering

But I run small loudspeakers !
Back in 1996 I ran 2 big 12 inch subwoofer in a small car, for ground shaking bass : the battery was a small 55 amp ! there you could see headlights getting weaker at each bass line !!

And in my opinion, a modified alternator is only for very powerfull sound systems with 2 big battery to charge

and by the way, audi must have a very special alternator because it is also START & STOP ...

what subwoofer will you use and are you a bass freak ?
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Old 03-22-2017   #41
 
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Default Re: audi A4 b8 2011 : werner's hifi

a propos amps,

WHAT ARE THE BEST AMPLIFIERS YOU CAN PUT IN A A4 ?

WELL? A4's from HELIX !!

ok sorry, i didn't choose those for the name only !
I choose those amps because they are... famous and thin, very thin

I use my trunk to put pushbikes, baggages and any material that i buy, so I NEED MY TRUNK !
those amps are 35mm thick, so I just had to put them on a wooden plate. the Q90 processor is sunk in the wood ( it has nice little plates to screw it in place )

those are in the car since end 2012 and provided a great milestones to continue the purchase of the sound of my dream !
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Old 03-22-2017   #42
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Default Re: audi A4 b8 2011 : werner's hifi

Quote:
Originally Posted by werner sline View Post
I think the max draw is what the amp could POSSIBLY draw : I mean if you put same speakers on 1 or 2 amps, they will still draw the same current because the load stays the same


what subwoofer will you use and are you a bass freak ?
Well I am looking at 2 class A/G amps I know they aren't nearly as efficient as class D amps... So yes the speakers will draw the same but if a class D is lets say 80% efficient and a class A/G is 50% efficient the class D will take considerably less power to put out the same RMS. Hence the 2 class A/G amps have a total of 4@30amp fuses vs 1@60amp for the class D amps.

No I'm not a bass head lol I'm running 1 idmax 10.

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Old 03-22-2017   #43
 
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Default Re: audi A4 b8 2011 : werner's hifi

yes you're right about efficiency
a 10 inch sub shouldn't be a problem

you might also consider if you listen to music while driving or parked ?
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Old 03-23-2017   #44
 
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Default Re: audi A4 b8 2011 : werner's hifi

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Originally Posted by werner sline View Post
thank you
good to hear that we both had the same feelings about products we both tested. it is not easy because each person tends to love a different sound and listens in a different car, with different settings and electronics.
What better 8cm could I try ?

actually I may not go in a serious, scientific way of doing things. I even have an ISSUE WITH LOUDSPEAKERS :
let me explain you ; imagine me as a stand up comedian !

" loudspeakers are like women for me ! when I see one, i stare at her, check out how she's made : i'm all in love and full of hope : I want this one all for me !!
I can see myself touching the cones, softly screwing her in , and finally, the moment of extasy ; I hear how she sounds !
Then I get to touch all her buttons, find her best sound, get the best out of our relation to the maximum level !
and well, then I realize we don't fit together : actually, my ears can't stand her anymore from this moment on !
I NEED NEW LOUDSPEAKERS !

well, don't get me wrong : in fact, it's just about loudspeakers ! I got the same woman since 9 years but I went through 50 loudspeakers since 1996 !
I can change loudspeakers all day long without problems. Try that with women, you will have tons of problems !! "

anyway, that my little addiction, nothing major though

so well , how does it show in my car ?
well in the DOORS !

these are the speakers I tested, once, twice and more. And I still got them all ! and will put them in again to see what my experience of setting brings

- focal is200 20cm
- vifa 13cm
- hertz mille 16cm
- dynaudio mgt160 16cm
- jvc 16cm coax
- trump 16cm ( triangle copy )
When you upgrade software "girlfriend 7.0" to be "wife 1.0" yes, you may have a problem after several years

Which other 8cm? - The options of amazing speakers are endless.

I've had the HAT L3SE's and found them to be amazing, with or without a tweeter.

But for me, that taste of old good glass of wine would always be Morel speakers, the CDM midranges for me are "magical" speakers.

I love the way they sound right off the bat!

The way I see it, if you don't have a big budget look for cheap speakers that get great reviews and many of them.

Install them and then tune them like hell!

If you do have a big budget then this is where you buy speakers by the description of how they sound and if they fit the type of sound you are looking for and you then install them and see if with minimum tuning they just sound like what you've hoped for.

This is one of the reasons to buy high end speakers - the vendor put so much R&D and effort to make them sound good right off the shelf (given a good installation and rest of the chain with good equipment too).

Mainly if I buy a high end speaker it is because -

it would sound well on minimum efforts.
it would perform well.

Other wise - I look for a cheap speaker with good reviews and tune tune tune it until it sounds the way I want it to, hopefully - I get there most of the times.

As for which 8 cms I would like to try?

Currently I would love to get my hands on these:

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...midrange-each/

Or the Illusion Audio C3CX's


But I am curious just the same as for the FaitalPro's and the MICCAs


Regarding amplifiers and technologies (not just classes) - Check out the XDI series and the KS mini series, pretty impressive products.

If you want to try different technologies try OEM integrators such as Audison Prima Bit series or solutions from both Helix and Mosconi

Read about Audison's FullDA solutions or Clarion's FDS technology - but these are different game fields in terms of signal handling while we are speaking about speakers and amplifier classes.

Subi Legacy 10: Morel+HAT CDM880&L1v1+HybridOvation 602 Sub Audison TH10 BASSO Audison VOCE AV5.1K FullDA Nexus7+SabreDAC with Audison Bit One running the show
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Old 03-23-2017   #45
 
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Default Re: audi A4 b8 2011 : werner's hifi

man you're seeing the future : my GF will indeed be changed into a wife ! and I might soon have to talk about the famous W.A.F ! wife acceptency factor !! but so far she's ok with all the stupid things I do ( I'm mainly into radio controled buggies lately )

anyway

the midrange you showed me are very tempting ! it makes me want to pull the trigger on one !
plus the midrange are the easiest loudspeakers to change in my car.
I got to keep my mind cool and work on the doors first !

So you like the morel dome midrange ? CDM88 ? funnily, I had a pair too, 10 years ago. But I didn't take the time to get the best out of them. I think i always want to make them play too low. How do you filter them ?

DOME MIDRANGE IN THE A4 : I also tested the expensive HELIX C2M midrange. or should I say "upper midrange". Because, in my opinion, they can't play the range the specs show :

Power handling RMS / max. 40 / 80 Watts
Frequency response 550 Hz - 7,000 Hz
Resonance frequency 520 Hz
Sensitivity 93 dB 1W / 1m
Impedance 4 Ohms
Diameter 54 mm; 2.1"
Installation depth 31 mm / 1.22"
Installation diameter 78 mm; 3.07"
Cone material Silk dome

somehow they also bother me because they sound agressiv ! maybe the famous 2 - 3 KHz range. even after I tried to equalize them...
Interesting thing with those smaller dome : you can put them in various location, no box needed. I tried them on the dashboard and under the dashboard. Even next to the feet, far away under the dash...
maybe I should work on them again... I kept them
Attached Images
File Type: jpg c2m helix.jpg (47.4 KB, 20 views)
File Type: jpg 290720152068.jpg (32.3 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg morel CDM.jpg (12.1 KB, 25 views)

Last edited by werner sline; 03-23-2017 at 02:26 PM..
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Old 03-23-2017   #46
 
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Default Re: audi A4 b8 2011 : werner's hifi

CURRENTLY in my DOORS

ok, don't laugh at me : I bought these old fashioned JVC 16cm speakers a while ago and always wondered what they are able to
I think I was appealed by the " old school sounds better " theory... or maybe because the speakers were looking at me screaming : " save us !! "

I got them in the car since a month now and well, it's very disturbing ; they bring lots of details to life in the upper midrange !
I came to cut them from 50hz @ 12Db/oct to 2Khz @ 12 Db/oct

so I guess their little tweeter doesn't work in this range so it's the main cone that works actually. fact is that I heard dozen of CDs and often heard new things
for example, the BRIAN ADAMS's song "room service" has a nice electric guitar that I never heard so clearly previously !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9-C85muwqo

and DYNAMIC : this things have dynamic too ! at very loud level !
the track gangstarr/the roots "lift your fist" , that already sounds easily very good, sounds brutal with the JVC speakers : The clap is as loud as a man with big hands claping in your ears !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dvkgn6qd9I0

One interesting discovery too is the bass : the JVC are intented for trunk / doors : well in my doors, they got a major bump at 100-150 Hz ! at first I thought the war is over, I can't deal with that. But whatever, lets shave 6db from this area until is it acceptable, and well it works except on some songs: the bass line from some bass guitar is still too loud : should I shave more off ? I'll still working on this aera
but the thing is : the equalizer also affect other loudspeakers in the same frequence range ; for instance, my subwoofer

So I compensated : I took off some deepbass with the equalizer ( from 20 to 63 Hz ) and raised the level of the subwoofer
In MY HIFI world you can cheat : important thing is what you EARS get !

and well, my ears are impressed : the JVC brilliantely complete the subwoofer : Each beat or drum is nicely reproduced and nicely dynamic even if the JVC don't play any bass : they just complete the sub in the right area. Reminder : my subs play up to 100 Hz @ 18Db/oct

I had to listen to ROBYN's " crash and burn "
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE4k1R4m4gY
This is one funny song : the beat is tremendous and wakes up the SPL competitor in you ! It's like chocolate, you want more of it ! and well, I got my dosis : this beat hits in the chest like a crazy ex girlfriend !! You win if you can play this track without hearing anything rattle in your car !

then I wanted to hear ROBERT CRAY's "you move me" : loud as a live club, well almost : What a pleasure ! bassline is a bit too present, I had to tune down the 80Hz a few Db...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81qEmfr43M0

so conclusion : crazy JVC things ! they impressed me with details, sound level. But if I can't get the bass to sound natural on every bass line, I will have to take them off !!

PICTURES : the special ring I built didn't made it : it's too thick, I can't put the stock grill back in ! So I made regular flat MDF rings...

EDIT : I hope you enjoyed the youtube links : It's nice too actually talk about the main subject : MUSIC !
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Image9872.jpg (73.6 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg Image9873.jpg (51.1 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg DSC04524.jpg (66.0 KB, 23 views)
File Type: jpg DSC04525.jpg (52.3 KB, 24 views)

Last edited by werner sline; 03-23-2017 at 03:40 PM..
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Default Re: audi A4 b8 2011 : werner's hifi

TWEETERS : more pics

I mounted both tweeters as high as possible because of the dashboard left

I like to shut off all other loudspeakers and listen to the tweeters alone. I adjust the time alignement, try various cut off

the helix C1t tweeters can play at a very low cut off, like 2 - 3 Khz @ 6Db/oct ; that what some brax/helix lovers do.
But I can't stand this !! put some loud heavy metal and it will rip your head off !
I went to 8Khz @ 12Db/oct : still have lots of details and no more harshness

the little midrange on the dashboard play from 3.15KHz @ 6Db/oct to 6.3KHz @ 12Db/oct
Attached Images
File Type: jpg GOPR0289.jpg (58.2 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg GOPR0290.jpg (58.5 KB, 23 views)
File Type: jpg GOPR0291.jpg (65.0 KB, 29 views)
File Type: jpg GOPR0292.jpg (59.5 KB, 20 views)
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Default Re: audi A4 b8 2011 : werner's hifi

Quote:
Originally Posted by werner sline View Post
TWEETERS : more pics

I mounted both tweeters as high as possible because of the dashboard left

I like to shut off all other loudspeakers and listen to the tweeters alone. I adjust the time alignement, try various cut off

the helix C1t tweeters can play at a very low cut off, like 2 - 3 Khz @ 6Db/oct ; that what some brax/helix lovers do.
But I can't stand this !! put some loud heavy metal and it will rip your head off !
I went to 8Khz @ 12Db/oct : still have lots of details and no more harshness

the little midrange on the dashboard play from 3.15KHz @ 6Db/oct to 6.3KHz @ 12Db/oct
Thank you for the tweeter pics! I like the finished look, I will have to go with something similar.

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Default Re: audi A4 b8 2011 : werner's hifi

you're welcome
I used black loudspeaker fabric. it's elastic so quite easy to fit.

SETUP
here it is how it looks ( ok I changed the doors loudspeakers for the JVCs )

why a different slope at high pass filter at 50hz on the doors between left ( 18Db/oct ) and right ( 12 Db/oct ) ?
well I noticed that even with a time alignement correction, the bass slipes to the left side ; probably because of phase problem

So I tried to raise the slope on the left speaker and it sounded better : the bass ( in this case the range from 63Hz - 80Hz approx ) can be located in the center of the dashboard
A drummer set has to hit nicely in the center of the dashboard, I love that !

so once again, it is a strange solution, but it works for me !
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Default Re: audi A4 b8 2011 : werner's hifi

Happy New Week

Don't worry, once she becomes Wife 1.0 - W.A.F == -1 !

Morel have a very bad tendency to write misleading guides when it comes to xover points and power transfer point.

What ever you will read in their manual about the CDM XOVER settings, reality is a bit different, I'll explain.

Now don't get me wrong, the guides are correct but what most people understand as Xover points and how Morel point of view for xover points may be - are very, VERY, different.

I've had a personal conversation, face to face, not on the phone, with Oren Mordechai which is today's Morel CEO (He is the son of the factory founder), it was done during a tour at their factory at which I was invited in person - you can read about it here - tour at Morel - you would require to google translate the page.

About the CDM drivers (880 or 88 for this reference):

If you'll read the technical specs of the passive xover you will get illogical xover points for the CDM lower end (High pass), in fact for active setup (without a passive xover) Morel recommended to cut them at 450Hz 12db

Working for many years with CDMs - the 54s the 88 and now the 880 I know very well that if I cut them 450hz at 12db - they will go straight to hell withing the first time I'll play them loud enough.

So I figured out what Morel are telling me that at 450Hz they should already be cut down by 12db!!! Meaning at 12db the xover settings should be 900Hz!

So what is happening? why are they doing that?

After a conversation with Morel (Oren) I understood that at their passive Xover they are cutting the CDM at arround 550Hz with a shallow slope (don't recall right now if it is 6 or 12 db) but they also use a compensation circuit to cut down drastically the power under 550Hz

Why do they do that? why not just cut it at 24db hz -

I guess it is both because a 24db passive Xover would be HUGE and Expensive to manufacture and as well a better phase alignment.


For me, I cut the CDM at 650Hz 24db

The woofers (Morel Hybrid 2) are playing well and wide until 700hz so I get a very good connection between the two and a very good stage height.


For me, and for me alone, I'm not saying it's the way to go it's just how I find it to get along at most cases - if you want to get a speaker as low as possible to it FS - Cut it with a steep slope as possible, other wise pick a higher xover point and a shallower slope.

Speaking with Morel engineers they mentioned that as a rule of thumb for tweeters it is recommended to cut them when using a shallow slope - about three times than the FS they are measured with and for a midrange about 1.5 times the FS value and for woofers you can cut them very near to the FS it self - but it is just a rule of thumb so no guaranty hear, I don't want to be blamed about something I may have not understood in full.

Speakers and tuning in general -

I used to like speaker experiments in the past but at a certain point I got tired of it and wanted to stay with a brand that really speaks to me, that brand is Morel mainly.

I just figured out I want to be able to tune each system I have no matter what it is, to my liking.

And it is really hard to do it "blind" without getting some basic knowledge about what your curve is - I use SPL meters and RTA (umik-1 by mdsp and REW) to get a basic starting point and I tune from there by ear.

As for having a bass bias to either left or right - changing an entire speaker slope, might be a very rough, hard action - like using an axe instead of a scalpel, sometimes a small tweak at the EQ may do the trick.

Run an RTA measurement for each midbass (at the same volume level) and compare between the two and you would probably see at which frequency one of them is stronger - focus on that area and see if you can tweak it (if not, you may have a cancellation issue for which changing the install of the mid-bass themselves may solve).

Subi Legacy 10: Morel+HAT CDM880&L1v1+HybridOvation 602 Sub Audison TH10 BASSO Audison VOCE AV5.1K FullDA Nexus7+SabreDAC with Audison Bit One running the show
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