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Old 09-11-2008   #1
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Default 03 Saturn Ion build log. Fiberglass Doors from scratch!!!

Comments are welcome! Edit: BTW this is my first full install. Been doing HU/subs for years but this is my first install with FG and all this stuff from scratch. I REAL learning experience. I claim to be no expert for sure!!!

Alright guys, So I've been on Talkaudio for quite a while, finally started coming here and am enjoying it. Done some build logs over there, thought Id share it with you guys who may actually see it one day. System details, although my friends and GF say the car will die before I ever finish the install since it changes way to much....
Currently as follows:

HU: Pie-in-eer Premier DEH-P860MP (have Alpine 7996 waitin to be hooked up to a H700 one day
Front Stage: 3 year old CDT HD62 components, also CDT HD M6+ Midbass
Substage's (plural): For SQ and everyday usage I run a CDT ES 1200SQ (currently a SS "Velvet Hammer" for kicks and giggles. FOr SPL and basshead days I run JBL P1220DII beasts.
Not even touched yet is the trunklid which will have a pair of JBL GTI components for when at shows for display.

Amps:
Front stage: MMats LM2125 for HD62's
Midbass: JBL P600.2
SQ Sub: JBL P600.2 (Bridged)
SPL Subs: JBL GTO1201.1
Trunklid Comps: JBL P300.4

Cables, batts, etc,
Cables:mostly Stinger. Also 50Ft of 1/0 welding cable for battery runs.
Batteries: Currently 1, future 2 Kinetic 2000's for the system. And a Batcap 800 to run the car.
RCA's: Custom made by me.

System Goals: I am an concert audio engineer....hence alot of JBL stuff... but first and foremost...the system must move me. I mean it must absolutely rock...I listen to everything. Metal and hard rock are my first love. I also love rap...hence the big ol JBL subs...I also listen to classical and love Jazz..in a long road trip with me..you will here it all. My system must do it all. 90% of the time the SQ subs can handle it...occasionally I need extra bowl movement help...jk...I turn off the SQ sub and turn on the SPL subs. First my system must move me....after that..but not second in priorities it must be clean...clean...clean...done. After that staging and all that other SQ stuff...check. So on to the pics and descriptions of how I think I am accomplishing this....

First the front stage and most noticeable the doors.



My car comes with no power anything..so to fit the M6+ midbasses I needed to remove the window crank and convert my windows to power windows....



On that note...there are many (read 4) layers of Dynamat and 1 layer of SS Overkill pro on those doors. 1 on the outside panel. 1 on the inside of the inside panel (follow) and 2 in the outside of the inside panel with the SS over that. That is the black foam you see on that above picture. Once that was done. I covered the whole door in painters tape (no pics) then light spray of
3m #77 adhesive and a layer of aly foil. THen a couple of layers of Fiberglass.



Now that pic shows the fiberglass mold of the door once skeleton framing has been added..or the start of the framing. Once I pried off the mold of the door, duh, framing was added. Lots of it. ALot of time was spend on the speaker rings and aiming those with rods and hot glue. As you can see before I got too far I added and resined fleece around the front driver just to make sure it was right. The square in the middle was originally for the JBL GTI comps which were going into the door with the CDT's. CDT's for SQ and JBL's for just rocking. Once I realized the CDT's do a fine job of both...I found the M6+ midbass around the same time and wanted to keep it brand coherent and the little M6+ are so badass. So the GTI crossover was scrapped but the sqaure for it was already there. Plus thats also a bolt point for the door panel. (I think I'll be putting a "tube preamp" in there for a pretty light show.) Anywhoo, as you may or may not be able to see from the picture....the whole door panel is the enclosure for the midbass driver. All of the cross braces that braces both the flat top (front part of the door that faces you) and ties the back panel to the front have holes drilled in them to be open as possible. The enclosure goes from the bottom of the door all the way up to the top of the door, albeit only about 2 inches thick at that point. Once all the bracing was done (and there was alot more than shown in the pictures. Plus many flat peices of MDF to make up the flat portion of the doors (armrest area, bottom back section) Fleece was stretched over the entire skeleton to give the relative shape. Lots of FG etc..Then stupid amounts of body filler and such. Which brings me to this point.




You can see that I used Body filler to make a line that follows the curve right above the driver. This is where the top half of the cabinet which will be leather grained vinyl will be tucked and where the bottom half, paint will start. I needed to make a groove to tuck the vinyl into so it would flow seamlessly to the paint. Hopefully this will work. Fingers crossed.
At the back of the door you can see where the new handle is. I had to make a insert for this since the vinyl will tuck into this pocket, this insert will hold it there and look seamless...this was a bitch to make...



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Last edited by guitarsail; 09-11-2008 at 02:41 PM..
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Old 09-11-2008   #2
 
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Default Re: 03 Saturn Ion build log. Fiberglass Doors from scratch!!!

Looking good, I will follow along to see where this goes.

Tell us what you think of all your different sub-stages.
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Old 09-11-2008   #3
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Default Re: 03 Saturn Ion build log. Fiberglass Doors from scratch!!!

Continuing on, There are some little things here and there in the door. But essentially I found out that the enclosure volume was actually too much for the M6+! Not a bad problem to have, I was hoping it would be enough. SO I had to stuff some high density foam in there to reduce volume. Also there is some dynamat in there to help reduce resonance in key places. Also there is lead shot mixed with resin in places for mass. Before the top was put on (aka fleece stretched over the framing) a plethora of wiring was ran through the door crimped soldered and heat shrinked, because I will never be able to get in there to fix it. there are 12 connections going in and out of this door if that says anything. All of the connection are made via 3, 4 connection spring loaded spring terminals Best I could figure. 7 connections for Power windows (2 for DC in, 2 for Driver motor out, 3 for passenger side control) 2 for M6+, 2 for HD62, (tweets are in the dash) and some extra for any lighting I may add in the future. Those terminals are glassed into the back side of the door. Heres a pic of the wires in the door before getting connected to the panel itself



Not much to look at but there it is.

In all the driver door is pretty close to being done...I can build the structure etc...but I'm not good at the finishing touches of body filler...so its taking longer than expected plus I work on it when I get the urge which hasn't happened in a while. There is about 200 Hours of labor in the driver door alone at this point. Passenger door is to the framing stage. So I have a complete front stage to listen to The rest of the car has maybe taken 30-40 hours. Building the amp rack to hold 3 out of the 5 amps. The 2 other amps will go 1 in each rear door as you can see the oval cutout (rough) in the pictures. There is a thin layer underneat the amp rack which all the RCA's power etc will be routed through seperately. Rack will be wrapped in the same leather grained vinyl. The whole rack is hinged so it can be lifted. The portion that does not move utilizes the rear seat bolts and bolt holes to keep anything from moving Couple of pics before I go on..






So around that amp rack I am going to do a multi piece fiberglass wrap. That will semi- conform to the back of the front seats. It will house crossovers, Power distribution and Such. Kind of like the fiberglass piece in corvettes etc. Make sense? Now in front of the big JBL subs there will be a one piece metal grill (think Pro Audio style) with acoustic foam behind it that will go across the subs from the back dash to the amp rack. So when you look back there it will be relatively inconspicous. Black blank grill and black vinyl wrapped flat panel. Very simply looking. I don't believe I have any pics of the trunk sorry to say. Not much back there. Big ol Kinetic Battery, a 1cuft enclosure for the CDT SQ sub that sits down in the spair wheel well. Its kind of ugly right now. But It will be flushed into the floor. Flat panels on the floor sides and back, so I can still use the trunk. Simple simple everywhere but the doors. The whole car is layered in a 2 layers of Dynamat and Some SS Damp Pro. Also a gallon of sludge went into the front floor/footwells over the 2 layers of Extreme and DampPro. Also I did a false floor in the front. I needed new carpet but since I couldn't get replacement carpet that was nice and home like like I wanted. I made risers that fit into the front floor and made two flat wood cutouts that fit so the floor is raised 1 inch or so. Home carpet put in after that whoohoo. Nice black carpet all around! Plus the floors are all layers in Overkill pro as well. There is also a new junction point on the hump under my seat. Right now its just for the power windows...but alot of the small peripheal stuff will terminate under the seat to relays etc.. pic of the false floor (sort of) and the terminals when the false floor was pulled





SO, thats the car as it stands right now. Lot of stuff in there none of it really looks finished..but maybe one day. Until then It sure as hell sounds good to me!!! Please feel free to post comments questions flames. Feedback is welcome!!!

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Last edited by guitarsail; 09-11-2008 at 12:28 PM..
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Old 09-11-2008   #4
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Default Re: 03 Saturn Ion build log. Fiberglass Doors from scratch!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3NTAL View Post
Looking good, I will follow along to see where this goes.

Tell us what you think of all your different sub-stages.
Well the 2 are used seperately...never at the same time. THe SQ is IMHO amazing. Since that sub is in the trunk behind a large SPL enclosure its location is pretty well masked. And the SPL subs when they get turned on are very locational...but they are for SPL so who cares...I've found since I'm not using the M6+ midbass right now (since only one is in, passenger side isnt done enough for it) I don't really need them. THe HD62's make more than enough bass to blend perfectly with the SQ sub. But when I have used it (just the driver side) it sounds great.

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Last edited by guitarsail; 09-11-2008 at 12:27 PM..
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Old 09-11-2008   #5
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Default Re: 03 Saturn Ion build log. Fiberglass Doors from scratch!!!

very thorough post so let me get to it.

1st question (in no order) you said tweets were in dash. Isn't there a tweet connected to the foremost 6.5"?

2. You're going to put a tube pre in the doors? Please clarify. Wouldn't there be entirely to much vibration for a tube pre? So let me suggest this, to be fun and save some work, build it yourself without putting it into the signal path

We make fun of those that buy the tube buffers taht only have red LED's behind a tube but they're probebly the best sounding ones to have considering they will hurt your sound (depending on who you talk to, I'd love to have it so don't get me wrong).

So make a fake one but if you did it right, it would be pretty cool to look at and wouldn't screw up the sound. You could call it a tribute to audiophiles gone by...

Next, are you saying that you can't get into the door panels at all now?

Over-all, it looks extremely complicated and would be one of those presentations that would take an hour to look at everything going on. I'm impressed with all the labor and most of all the thought into doing it correctly, or at least taking your time to fix it. I am certainly interested in your progress.

So how many times have you wondered how 'Zapco' would look behind the rear-door ovals you have going in there?

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Old 09-11-2008   #6
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Default Re: 03 Saturn Ion build log. Fiberglass Doors from scratch!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWC View Post
very thorough post so let me get to it.

1st question (in no order) you said tweets were in dash. Isn't there a tweet connected to the foremost 6.5"?

2. You're going to put a tube pre in the doors? Please clarify. Wouldn't there be entirely to much vibration for a tube pre? So let me suggest this, to be fun and save some work, build it yourself without putting it into the signal path

We make fun of those that buy the tube buffers taht only have red LED's behind a tube but they're probebly the best sounding ones to have considering they will hurt your sound (depending on who you talk to, I'd love to have it so don't get me wrong).

So make a fake one but if you did it right, it would be pretty cool to look at and wouldn't screw up the sound. You could call it a tribute to audiophiles gone by...

Next, are you saying that you can't get into the door panels at all now?

Over-all, it looks extremely complicated and would be one of those presentations that would take an hour to look at everything going on. I'm impressed with all the labor and most of all the thought into doing it correctly, or at least taking your time to fix it. I am certainly interested in your progress.

So how many times have you wondered how 'Zapco' would look behind the rear-door ovals you have going in there?
Good to see ya here. Haha 1st up. Tweet was mounted braxially...I ditched that (old pic) so Tweets are in the dash now.
No2: "tube preamp" It will be a fake preamp. Small Sylvania radio tubes backlit. A throwback to ol' like ya said. I'll make something fancy looking but it will be fake.
As to getting into the door..I can get into the door, the part that swings...I can't really get into the fiberglass panel I've made. I can only reach so far up in there before running into internal braces. But its just an enclosure anyways..minus the connections to the terminal in there which are VERY secure. So no need to get into the fg panel itself.
Never really thought about different amps. The Mmat amp was a spur of the moment, then holy S!@# that sounds good. Mostly I'm limited by money. I have a house and no roomate...so money is TIGHT. Most of the equipment was bought when I had a roomy. I was lusting for some DLS A3's...but again..money I would love some donations though Mwhahaa....I would love some different amps but again..................don't have much money for that kind of caliber..
Keep the comments and banter coming...you guys are first on this side of the pond to comment besides me few buddies and I need all the advice I can get....Did I mention this is my first build ever...need to edit that in..

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Old 09-11-2008   #7
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Default Re: 03 Saturn Ion build log. Fiberglass Doors from scratch!!!

Quote:
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Good to see ya here. Haha 1st up. Tweet was mounted braxially...I ditched that (old pic) so Tweets are in the dash now.
No2: "tube preamp" It will be a fake preamp. Small Sylvania radio tubes backlit. A throwback to ol' like ya said. I'll make something fancy looking but it will be fake.
As to getting into the door..I can get into the door, the part that swings...I can't really get into the fiberglass panel I've made. I can only reach so far up in there before running into internal braces. But its just an enclosure anyways..minus the connections to the terminal in there which are VERY secure. So no need to get into the fg panel itself.
Never really thought about different amps. The Mmat amp was a spur of the moment, then holy S!@# that sounds good. Mostly I'm limited by money. I have a house and no roomate...so money is TIGHT. Most of the equipment was bought when I had a roomy. I was lusting for some DLS A3's...but again..money I would love some donations though Mwhahaa....I would love some different amps but again............................................. >^^
Keep the comments and banter coming...you guys are first on this side of the pond to comment besides me few buddies and I need all the advice I can get....Did I mention this is my first build ever...need to edit that in..
I'm not sying Zapco's better just oval-ish....

Ok so the foam in the door panel, is that open to leakage or is that in the sealed portion..I think I already know the answer to that, anyway.

Did you say 700? Are you set on a 700 or simply 700/701?

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Old 09-11-2008   #8
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Default Re: 03 Saturn Ion build log. Fiberglass Doors from scratch!!!

Quote:
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I'm not sying Zapco's better just oval-ish....

Ok so the foam in the door panel, is that open to leakage or is that in the sealed portion..I think I already know the answer to that, anyway.

Did you say 700? Are you set on a 700 or simply 700/701?
Gotcha gotcha. Their are a couple of high density foam blocks Placed inside of the enclosure just to take up space. They are in the flat part in the bottom back.

H701...but I need the C700 controller the green one...because I bought the 7996 right before they came out with the damn new generation HU's with the blue...now I can't find the green button controllers anymore...DOH!

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Old 09-11-2008   #9
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Default Re: 03 Saturn Ion build log. Fiberglass Doors from scratch!!!

why don't you just charge for some fab work and buy a 505, to hell with the controller...as I employ and financially destroy you from afar, might as well get the zapcos.

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Old 09-11-2008   #10
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Default Re: 03 Saturn Ion build log. Fiberglass Doors from scratch!!!

The largest reason I want the controller is for the instant access to different settings. AKA Setting 1 is SQ setup, setting 2 is SPL etc etc. One button plus an amp switched on or off and away we go...SO MUST HAVE CONTROLLER!!! Haha. And to the Zapco's....never heard one...heard plenty of good about them...but I'm sure not buying a something that expensive without hearing it...
Besides...that pesky mortgage keeps getting in the way...nobody else wants to comment on the build



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Old 09-12-2008   #11
 
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Default Re: 03 Saturn Ion build log. Fiberglass Doors from scratch!!!

wow, this is a big job for a first time full job... NICE!
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Old 09-12-2008   #12
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Default Re: 03 Saturn Ion build log. Fiberglass Doors from scratch!!!

Quote:
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The largest reason I want the controller is for the instant access to different settings. AKA Setting 1 is SQ setup, setting 2 is SPL etc etc. One button plus an amp switched on or off and away we go...SO MUST HAVE CONTROLLER!!! Haha. And to the Zapco's....never heard one...heard plenty of good about them...but I'm sure not buying a something that expensive without hearing it...
Besides...that pesky mortgage keeps getting in the way...nobody else wants to comment on the build


its not the build, its the forum location. It is in the right place but a lower traffic one. It will get plenty of comment but itll come in slower.

I was jiving on the Zapcos...like I can spend your money for you on stuff that ain't much better.

Good luck on the controller. I have had an extremely hard time finding some stuff and that one is kinda rare also. I'd say put a WTB in the F/S section and see if there is one. Don't TTT it every hour, though, that gets irritating
These guys have a little of everything...

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Old 09-12-2008   #13
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Default Re: 03 Saturn Ion build log. Fiberglass Doors from scratch!!!

Haha..yeah that TTT every hour does get old quick..between the C700 biatch to find..and PG whatever the hell that thing is...the auxilary power center thingy with delays on and off...that was technical..totally drew a blank on the name..TIQ15 sound close...ANYWhOO soon as I get some money I'll throw a WTB thread up

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Old 09-12-2008   #14
 
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Default Re: 03 Saturn Ion build log. Fiberglass Doors from scratch!!!

Dang that sure is a lot of work going into the car. Very good job for sure on your first full project and certainly not holding back. I also just recently started doing fiberglass work and I found it fairly easy, I still can't make things perfect but its easier than I first thought. Looks like yours is coming out quite nicely. Don't be like me and get impatient at the very end though, thats my biggest downfall, bondo looks halfway decent, its good enough lol.

Amp rack and the SPL subs are looking quite nice. How is the amp rack cover going to be finished? I am guessing there will be no back seats when this is all complete, least doesn't look like there will be room.

Do you have any pics of the trunk and the SQ sub setup?

Keep up the good work and keep us posted.

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Old 09-12-2008   #15
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Default Re: 03 Saturn Ion build log. Fiberglass Doors from scratch!!!

Thank you sir! Nope no back seats.. With the back seats in, I couldn't even get my feat into the foot well for the passengers There is literally from where the driver seat sits normal to the front of the back seat about 9 inches to get your feat in there...totally useless! The lid of the amp rack will be covered in Black leather grained vinyl. Thanks again!

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Old 09-15-2008   #16
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Default Re: 03 Saturn Ion build log. Fiberglass Doors from scratch!!!

Bump for 2nd place outta 3 at my first show ever. Modified class. I'm done tooting my own horn now.

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Old 09-15-2008   #17
 
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Default Re: 03 Saturn Ion build log. Fiberglass Doors from scratch!!!

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Bump for 2nd place outta 3 at my first show ever. Modified class. I'm done tooting my own horn now.
Grats, thats pretty sweet. What was the show of? General car show, or an audio competition? Either way getting a trophy is pretty good.

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Old 09-15-2008   #18
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Default Re: 03 Saturn Ion build log. Fiberglass Doors from scratch!!!

MECA audio competition at Sound on Wheels in Huntsville. Modified Class..

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Old 09-15-2008   #19
 
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Default Re: 03 Saturn Ion build log. Fiberglass Doors from scratch!!!

Too bad you've gotta work all day next saturday or you could flex your system again!!! Congrats again!!!
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Old 12-03-2008   #20
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Default Re: 03 Saturn Ion build log. Fiberglass Doors from scratch!!!

So I actually did some work on the car today! Got super motivated and went to town on it. Got the freakin big arse Kinetik Battery moved and mounted and also ran a new ground and new ground point...that was fun. You can see what I did in the picture...some threaded rod 1/2" angle aluminum and walla! Mounted battery. Also drilled a 3/4" whole into the floor and ran some 1/0 through the floor mounted a grounding bracket onto the frame and did all that good stuff. Then Since the battery was out of the way i realized I could keep my spare tire if i Fiberglassed into the tire custom mounted the tire I could lower the CDT sub and make a false floor ...SO I did some fiberglassing today too...yeah that was fun...not...like 3-4 hours bent over in the trunk...my back feels great...anywhoo on with the pics...enjoy..leave some love.












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Old 12-04-2008   #21
 
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Default Re: 03 Saturn Ion build log. Fiberglass Doors from scratch!!!

Wicked install! Massive amounts of work but I'm sure it'll be show-quality when it's done
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Old 12-04-2008   #22
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Default Re: 03 Saturn Ion build log. Fiberglass Doors from scratch!!!

Why thank you sir...now if only I felt the same away about it being show quality...the sound...well its show quality...I'm just not very confident in my abilities to get the fit and finish show quality...but thanks none the less!

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Old 12-04-2008   #23
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Default Re: 03 Saturn Ion build log. Fiberglass Doors from scratch!!!

Hint....... Take the TIRE OUT OF THE CAR!



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Old 12-04-2008   #24
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Default Re: 03 Saturn Ion build log. Fiberglass Doors from scratch!!!

got any more pics of the door panel build? How does it attach to the metal and where are you putting the door opener thingy?
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Old 12-04-2008   #25
 
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Default Re: 03 Saturn Ion build log. Fiberglass Doors from scratch!!!

Lookin good!! Hopefully you'll make it to more shows this year!!
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