I did not get to start my install thread because last night was a late night. So my first post begins on Day 2. I would like to format my thread/log by giving daily work hours totals, grand total hours spent, tasks completed and commentary along the way, specifically with surprises (good or bad) encountered. So here goes:
Day 1 hours: 3
Day 2 hours: 3
Total build hours: 6
Sadly, I do not have any photographs yet. But so far all I have done is essentially remove the interior.
Tasks completed today:
1. Remove rear seat back rest.
2. Remove rear seat cushions (see story below)
3. Remove rear wall factory carpeted wall.
4. Remove center seat, seatbelt tower (I will not be re-installing this).
5. Remove tire changing tool set.
6. Remove OEM subwoofer enclosure.
7. Remove both C-Pillars.
8. Made chip board template of area/geometry of what my amp mounting board will look like. This may have to be altered, once it is installed, if I want it perfect.
Surprises along the way today:
1. Removing the rear backrest. Accomplishing this task was so difficult, yet so easy (when I figured out how to do it). So much that I have written my own article on it, which can be found here: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...08-my-way.html
2. I was surprised at how many pieces, parts, plus, screws, wires, etc. had to be removed just to get clean and clear access to the rear wall. So in 6 hours, I managed to get a chipboard template, so I can now go cut my MDF board. LOL.
3. There was one bolt at the far rear passenger side corner, that held the rear seat frame down. This thing was a BEAR. IN the end, we realized that of the four bolts/nuts that hold this frame down, only this one was different. All were nuts, this one was a bolt. It has a nut which can be accessed UNDER the truck chassis. This particular bolt was the last one to be removed. The first three were a breeze. We did not realize it was different at the time, so we just kept turning it..and turning it. We looked under the chassis, but did not see the nut (at first). We finally assumed we were damaging it. So we took out the rear seat cushions....the hard way. After the seats were out, but the metal frame remained...I finally realized the nut at the end of the fourth bolt was indeed accessible. So we finally got it out.
Definitely more work than what is necessary....but we live and learn.
Next task:
I am going to make a mock up of the amp board using 3/4" rigid insulation (blue board). This is not typically necessary, but the F150 rear backrest is VERY close to the rear wall. My intent is to mock up EVERYTHING in rudimentary form, in this insulation. Including the amps, etc. Then mount it on the wall and put the seats back (not bolted in) and sit down on the backrest. Since I have three amps, fuse blocks, distribution blocks, sound processor, etc to mount in a very tight area, this is a step I do not want to skip. The objective is to see where the amps have too little room, by virtue of any dents, impressions or crushing of the blue board. If any of this occurs, I will need to tweak the layout. Plus this blue board gives me true 3d dimensions of the design, versus some paper thing chip board. I will take pictures of this, so you can see what I am talking about.
Sounds like a good plan. To ensure your amps have enough space, try to mount them as low as possible.
How about a list of equipment that you have going in?
Good idea! I have posted this in several places around this forum over the last few weeks, so I just wanted to make sure I didn't annoy others. But this is a good location for the image. Here is the equipment diagram.
The only thing not shown, and I am not sure about, is a center channel speaker which I would like to install in the overhead rail area. My hearing is not great, so I think my cell phone calls would be easier on me with a center channel speaker (right above my right ear). I wish there was a way to have this center channel ONLY work for the phone calls.....AND at the same time have the system mute all other speakers when a call comes in on the phone. I cannot find a way to do this with my equipment. The closets I can come to figuring it out is that the AVIC-D3 allows you to isolate cell phone conversations to the right channel. So instead of the "center" speaker being on a center channel, I can tap into the HU speaker level wires and just run it off the HU amp. However, some (more experienced) SQ guys are telling me that might make fine tuning the sound (for SQ) a bit more difficult. This is over my head at the moment. I guess I can always install the speaker and if I dont like it...remove it.
No real work done today besides shopping. Here is the list of things done:
1. Purchased 1/2" thick blue board rigid insulation (to make mock up of my amp board)
2. Purchased twelve feet of caraflex 3/4" liquid tight conduit (for powerwire routing from battery to rear wall. I forgot to get the rubber dipped clamps!
3. Purchased 1" dia. drill bit for metal surfaces. (to gain access to rear wall area with the caraflex conduit).
4. Purchased center channel speakers for cellphone conversation. I chose Infinity Kappa 32.9cf 3-1/2" 2-way Car Speakers. Remember, these will be toggled off during all listening, EXCEPT cell phone calls.
5. Purchased speaker cabinet carpet (black) to cover my rear wall mounting board (MDF).
6. Purchased 1/2" split techflex (50') , heat shrink (box of mixed colors and sizes 3M brand) and two sizes of wire loom all from Parts Express.
7. Purchased bushings and wire terminals in 1 ga. and 4 ga. for my Big Four wiring upgrades. Purchased from knukonceptz.
Surprises along the way:
1. Not really a lot today. Mostly just in how much money I am spending. But I am 3/4 pregnant now...too late to turn back now.
Next Task
1. Pretty much the same as yesterday. Do the rear wall mock up.
2. Start power wiring from the battery and under belly of truck.
3. Start sound deadening.
Well my build came crashing down today....in a big way. I did a foam mock up of the rear wall space in the F150 as well as foam mocks up of each amp I intend on installing. The available space behind the backrest in the F150 is crazy small. But I have been reading for months now about how a lot of F150 owners have successfully installed high end audio systems in the exact same truck. Multiple amps, crossovers, wiring, fuse blocks....etc. This also includes the OEM equipment which resides on the rear wall (rear window motor and door security module).
Here is the mock up on my conference room table. Note the foam mock ups of the amps are sitting on a chipboard template of the rear wall, which shows all the OEM equipment sketched on it in red ink. The foam template of the rear wall is sitting behind it on the table.
It is pretty obvious in the photo that the amp sizes are large and the available space is small. Keep in mind the Bit One processor is not shown here. I also have three distribution blocks and three fuse blocks. All not shown here. The OEM window motor and security module, which shown on the template are not in the photo. Oh and one more thing. The OEM center seat, seatbelt tower, is not shown. I am THINKING about eliminating this tower. Not sure I can. I need the space for the equipment.
Once I finished modeling the pieces, I quickly realized things were going down hill. The foam rear wall template is 1/2" thick mocking the 1/2" MDF I intend to use. I want to put this in the truck so I can get a feel for how tight it will be for final install. The purpose of using foam is to put the rear seat back in and see where the set up crushes the foam. Thus telling me where things are not working out. Tweak and repeat.
So I put the mock up in the truck....and quickly saw a major issue. Make that major issue's. The first issue is the aluminum bar at the bottom of the seat. The bar I took into consideration....the struts located in four places (that hold the latches/release clips) I did NOT think about when laying this out in my head and when laying out the amps on my table inside.
They majorly restrict the available room for amps along the bottom of the rear wall...which is also the deepest dimension available in the entire vehicle.
Then comes more bad news.
My rear seat has a center armrest. This seat design at the backrest, results in two large metal struts in the middle of the backrest that I did not see before. This is bad news because it basically restricts the available amps ORIENTATION to vertical with no hope for horizontal placement.
Due to this...it is painfully obvious that my largest and most favorite amp, the McIntosh MC431 (100x4) with those gorgeous blue meters.....will NOT be able to fit in the rear..under any seat....anywhere.
Then I place the DLS A6 vertical and the McIntosh MCC204 vertical in the ONLY two places they will possibly go. They fit.....but ONLY with the 1/2" rear wall "MDF" board completely gone. That 1/2" thickness is desperately needed.
So now I am down to two amps (have to totally rethink power, speakers..channels etc now), no MDF board to mount stuff on...and I am even afraid that the (yet to be installed) damplifer pro will cause clearance issues if it is too thick when applied.
I drove home tonight...in complete disappointment and I am very discouraged. I had such good plans for all this equipment (I have literally spent about $8k now....and this does not include the install).
It was so bad that I am thinking of trading my truck for a F250 (been wanting to do this for a while) or even a Denali.
I am off to post my amps for sale and to look for new amps....
Hmm. It apears that you are going with a single 10" driver, placed under the driver's side rear seat with the q-logic enclosure.
If you can get 2 amps on the backwall passenger side and the processor driver's side, then put the 3rd amp under the rear passenger side seat, wouldn't that work?
My truck does not have that center armrest you speak of, which is weird. However, im pretty sure that the crappy power Acoustik mono block i USED to have back there (before i got the Cadence) was taller than any of your amps. it was nearly 3" tall, and i had it mounted on 3/4 MDF and it STILL fit fine. It was mounted horizontally.
I dunno man, it just seem weird. When i see guys doing THIS...
...I feel like getting your stuff back there shouldn't be as difficult as you make it sound...but then again, I'm not there in person.
Ya know....maybe I am getting down too early and fast. Your photos just gave me a lift. Let me study them and look again.
I forgot to mention in the thread above (as if it was not long enough already..) that one of the main issues was my amp height.
They are all 2.5" to 2 3/4" tall.
Man I dont see how you did that. Let me go look...I am excited to see your photos.
Oh and by the way...one amp will fit under the rear passenger seat, with some of it slightly forward of the seat lip....which is OK...just not preferred.
I know I have options...but I wanted this to be a certain way...and I get frustrated when it tailspins. I will figure it out...but your held is greatly needed and appreciated.
So did you eliminate the rear window motor? Where is the power door security module. You can see on my chipboard template, where they fall on the rear wall. The module is easy to move. The motor I dont mind eliminating (I never use it)....but it was a last resort. I see you still have the seat belt tower. I have no idea how you got all that stuff in there. Your amps may be less deep (in height dimension) than mine, but as you have stated, yours is on 3/4" MDF! I eventually took my 1/2" thick foam rear wall panel template OUT of the truck because it was adding too much thickness.
Lets say your amps were 1 1/2" tall.....add 3/4" and you are at 2 1/4". Hmm.... Do you have any idea how tall your amps are? I may try to look up the model numbers of yours and specs...just to see.
The above pictures are not MSall150's truck. That install belongs to another member over on F150online.com. I can't remember his screen name though. If you look closely you'll see that his truck doesn't have the sliding rear window, so he doesn't have to deal with the window motor. If I remember correctly he is a glass installer, so he removed his whole rear window and replaced it with the non sliding version so he could remove the motor assembly.
Also the security module can be moved to behind the drivers side C-pillar, which clears some space for you. Take a look back at some of those pictures I sent you. I've seen a guy over on F150online who has three Zapco Competition Amps mounted back there.
Also I think I sent you the pic of it, but there is a simply fix to your depth problem. You need to fashion a set of spacers for the top of your seat. I'll try to find the pic where another guy did his. Good Luck and don't get discouraged, you just have to get a litte creative, which looking at your install so far I don't see being a problem for you!
I am heavy into this "issue" right now. I will refer back to your photos. I have been between the computer and the truck all day trying to be "creative". I have decided that I need to sell the McIntosh amps so I posted them for sale here. I also posted my focal Utpoias for sale (due to having to reconfigure my amp set up)
Sorry for the confusion ARC. That setup belongs to F150truckin.
These pictures are of my setup as of November when i was installing the passives components i used for a bit (i havent taken recent pictures of my progress towards an active setup). I did not elminate the rear window motor, i just tucked the cord into that slit to make my mounting board as large as possible:
As you can see, i relocated the remote unlock module to one of my mounting boards:
That amp on the far side was friggin tall. Almost 3". I didn't need any spacers.
I dont know if Ford made the designs for the back seat different on the Supercrew and Supercab, because I have a Supercab.
I realized the truck was not yours after the post. At first I thought you had altered your design (you had said you were increasing your output).
I think I (again) have some ideas to chew on tonight. Very frustrating vehicle for sure.
My best friend (doing a simultaneous install) has a SuperCab. So I will get a direct comparison tomorrow or this weekend. I will post any differences here. He has only one amp, a RF Punch 1000, which is 23" wide and 2 5/8" tall. He called me tonight to let me know his amp will not work either....and he has no where near the stuff on the rear wall that I do....no SP, no multiple distribution blocks...etc.
I have an 06 Scab with sliding rear window and the middle seatbelt contraption. I relocated the window motor, removed the seatbelt contraption, removed that bar at the bottom that holds the kiddy seat straps, and then I ditched my MDF mounting boards to give me some more area to mount the amps. Getting rid of the MDF boards allows me to install an MCC toward the bottom of the wall, due to the seat angle. I could probably cram 4 amps back there now, easily 3. Yes there is probably a better way to do it, but I'm not getting rid of my 4X4.
I have an 06 Scab with sliding rear window and the middle seatbelt contraption. I relocated the window motor, removed the seatbelt contraption, removed that bar at the bottom that holds the kiddy seat straps, and then I ditched my MDF mounting boards to give me some more area to mount the amps. Getting rid of the MDF boards allows me to install an MCC toward the bottom of the wall, due to the seat angle. I could probably cram 4 amps back there now, easily 3. Yes there is probably a better way to do it, but I'm not getting rid of my 4X4.
I have two MACS, one of which is square in geometry (top view) and would benefit from the method you describe and would fit near the bottom. That is the MCC204. However, my "critical" amp at this point is my MC431M, and the one I love the most. It is a monster in size compared to most amps. Right now, I do not think this amp will fit even with the removal of the MDF. If I turn it horizontal in the wall, it takes up the space of two amps (bascially takes ALL of the space from the window motor toward the passenger side C pillar. If I turn it vertical, I will definitely have to either remove the MDF or add a top of back rest spacer.
On a side note....I ordered a new amp last night. An Audison Lrx 4.300. It will replace the MC431M should I not find a way to mount it. I have both McIntosh amps now for sale on the classified forum.
However you do make an interesting statement. You say you removed the entire bar that hold the kiddy seats straps? How did you do that? It is welded to each of the four (or is it five) clamps/posts (not sure what to call them) so you must have had a lot of cutting to do. I would love to see a photo of that set up.
Oh and by the way....I was joking about getting rid of my truck. My truck is pure luxury. The only way I would get rid of it, would be to buy another.
I have two MACS, one of which is square in geometry (top view) and would benefit from the method you describe and would fit near the bottom. That is the MCC204. However, my "critical" amp at this point is my MC431M, and the one I love the most. It is a monster in size compared to most amps. Right now, I do not think this amp will fit even with the removal of the MDF. If I turn it horizontal in the wall, it takes up the space of two amps (bascially takes ALL of the space from the window motor toward the passenger side C pillar. If I turn it vertical, I will definitely have to either remove the MDF or add a top of back rest spacer.
On a side note....I ordered a new amp last night. An Audison Lrx 4.300. It will replace the MC431M should I not find a way to mount it. I have both McIntosh amps now for sale on the classified forum.
However you do make an interesting statement. You say you removed the entire bar that hold the kiddy seats straps? How did you do that? It is welded to each of the four (or is it five) clamps/posts (not sure what to call them) so you must have had a lot of cutting to do. I would love to see a photo of that set up.
Oh and by the way....I was joking about getting rid of my truck. My truck is pure luxury. The only way I would get rid of it, would be to buy another.
I'll try to run out and snap some photos during my break, or better yet I'll take some when there is daylight so you can see. The "kiddy bar" is actually just bolted down, but yes you will need to cut it because it holds the seatback. I took the whole thing out when I dynamatted the rear wall, and noticed that most of the structure is used for kid seats.
I probably weakened the design, but if you have ever looked at the frame inside the seatback it is way overkill. Basically, just picture the 2 outside "clamps / posts" with nothing in between. It was just 2 cuts with a carbide skill saw blade, takes 20 seconds. Its thick so watch out for burrs, and a table vise will come in handy. I know all this is kind of pointless without pics, but I'm lucky to be working 85 hours a week, and I plan on showing you what I came up with.
Nice amps BTW, I also run a 3 way and settled on the Zapcos. Tweet / Mid on my dash with 8s in the doors, sounds like a concert. I have pics in another F150 thread.
Jason
Thanks Jason. I asked because I was thinking the four posts connected with the kiddie bar would have no lateral/horizontal support, if the bar were to be removed. I think I have seen your posts before....are you the one with the mids/tweets that reside in the very corners of your windshield?
1. It has been very slow going. I am really wanting to get my Damplyfier Pro installed. But I have been having amazing problems with Second Skin Audio, who has in turn, been having problems with UPS. They delivered 1 of 2 boxes 2 weeks ago and SS and UPS have been trying to track the second box. Unfortunately, it was the box with the mat in it! I really dont think SS has done a good job of customer service. Sure, they tell me they will get right on it...but a week later, they have done nothing. When I talk to them again, the have to re-ask all the questions....who are you....what is the issue..... And then they go through all the solutions again....only to arrive at..."we will get right on it!!". Three days later...nothing. It has been 21 days since I ordered the product....nothing! They claim I will get the product tomorrow. I am betting against it. So in short, this snafu has really held me up. I have been trying to run a few wires, get my amp board figured out..etc. But I cannot fully complete my amp board without my sound mat.
2. I spent literally 3 hours on JUST running my one and only 1/0 ga. powerwire today. At first it was really easy...went smooth as butter! If you follow my post, you will know that I am locating the powerwire outside my truck in liquid tight caraflex. My friend Grady and I went at it easily. Then came getting the caraflex conduit and busing to penetrate the rear floor behind the seat. It took us about one and a half hours to get that bushing installed. The problem was (I will post photos tomorrow) that the best location for this was in a narrow spot beside the cab mount bolt (the fourth bolt holding the rear seat support down). It was tight, tight, tight! But we managed to get it in. It did not help that when I calculated the final length of the caraflex.......it was literally to the 1/8" the exact length. Great for aesthetics but bad for when you need a little slack in the line to help with install. I THOUGHT I calculated some slack...but it did not turn out that way.
3. Before the day started I went to Lowes and purchased some zip ties, self tapping metal sheet metal screws and 3/4" aluminum conduit clamps. I could not find the rubber dipped conduit clamps. I am not sure they are necessary, since the caraflex is very thick walled rubber.
4. Purchased (yet even more) bushings and 1 ga. screw type wire terminals in 1 ga. from knukonceptz.
Thats it for today....not a lot...but it took a lot of effort.
Surprises along the way:
1. Not really a lot today. I would say the surprise of the day is how difficult it is to drill a self tapping sheet metal screw (16/10/1/4") into the underside of the floor pan. In fact, I was unable to actually do it. Then I tried to drill a pilot hole in the floor pan.....still no juice. I gave up and looked for a different way.
Next Task
1. Start sound deadening.
2. Possibly work on my center channel. Since this will tap in to the high level speaker connections from the HU, I could possible complete this task without dependency on other parts of the install.
3. Purchase a very small amount of black speaker cloth, toggle switch and a small metal strap for mounting the 3 1/2" centrer channel speaker.
Hey ARC... I followed you and Sall over from the F150 forum.
What is that chileshouse in your sig?
Good luck with the install - I'm trying to learn as much as possible before I begin purchasing equipment. Back in the early 90's, I built a box with 4 6X9's that hit pretty hard and sounded clear, but things seem to have changed a bit. Anyways, I hope you figure out the space issues...
I had a chance to take the quick photos, pardon the mess:
Here is one of those pain in the ass bolts. I will probably cut it off too.
I don't know what I was measuring. Top of amp to seat? This shows the motor relocated at the bottom.
You can install some stuff up high if it is shallow.
I took off that hook so I dont scratch the hell out of my seat.
It's about 2 1/2" to the bolt, that is, all the way down at the bottom.
Who needs seatbelts anyways.
I've put a Mac back there no problem, but it was not as wide as the 431, same height though. I think you could make it fit by getting rid of those angled clamps / posts, then put it right above the PITA bolts that hold the cab.
Patent Pending: Windshield Speaker.
Last edited by 2f150; 01-28-2009 at 08:29 PM..
Reason: Clarity
Wow you are really nice to take the time to post these pics to assist me, especially with the tape measure. It is very clear what you did on your install. So much so I think I will go study them more!
Wow you are really nice to take the time to post these pics to assist me, especially with the tape measure. It is very clear what you did on your install. So much so I think I will go study them more!
My 2008 F150 SuperCrew install
Linear Mode
