2004 Grand Prix GTP -- Rookie Install

[I800C0LLECT]

This was my first install ever and it was quite a project. I spent about 16 months researching and pecking this forum for information all along the way. The goal was cheap SQ. I can't say I'm happy with the end result but I'm not depressed either

The 9887 seems to have a high noise floor. The biggest problem I had was tracking down ground loop noise. I'm not sure if my head unit was damaged by the previous user or it was an issue with the RCA cables. However, I was never able to reproduce the ground loop noise with anything except the 9887.

Install took about 2 1/2 weeks total working 2-3 hours every other day or so. At least a week of that was trouble shooting ground noise.


Source & EQ:
CDA-9887
Audiocontrol DQS

Speakers:
a/d/s/ 346is
DIYMA R12

Amps :
SAX-100.4
Cadence TXA-3002

In addition, most of the project was piece mealed together based on pricing. I'm not a fan of the cap but the guy letting me use his garage was all about throwing the cap in...so whatever, it doesn't do anything anyways.

In the future I'd like to add in a hafler network and band pass some rear speakers for "fill" application. Currently I'm utilizing the passive cross overs but in a few days I might bypass those and go full active since I don't have the a/d/s/ 325is installed for the "fill" application.

I'm very impressed with the R12 and I'm glad I have the EQ. They have helped the passive setup a lot with the off axis response.

EDIT: Sorry about the final photos. I somewhat finished the install and didn't clean up too well. Cadence covers are loose and the amp rack along with trunk are pretty dirty. Amps and hardware haven't been wiped down either.

[I800C0LLECT]

I failed to mention....my goals were to keep the spare and attempt to establish a rack I could place a false floor over...

I'll probably have to revamp the setup But still, get the gear in and listen. Make changes, finalize locations/install then allow it to grow and mature.

Eventually I'd like to add clay around the speaker door pods(if I decide to keep stock locations/install) and throw in some Second Skin on the door panels as well as the trunk. So far, vibrations haven't been terrible but they're definitely hurting the quality of sound in some frequencies. Therefore, I've crossed the R12 pretty low to help keep the mid bass off the door panels for the time being.

[I800C0LLECT]

Last few photos.

Here's a copy of the build log if people are interested...

http://www.gpona.com/forums/car-audi...ll-t14470.html

[Shelbrain]

Very nice equipment and a nice install as well. I havent tried active yet but most say it is a night and day difference once you do it.

[captainobvious]

Looks good, especially for a rookie install. Panel vibration/resonance is one of the big detractors from a really nice sounding system. It can really muddle everything up. Thats what I would combat next, so that it wont hinder you going further. Use some closed cell foam on the doors between the plastic door panel and the metal to help decouple them. Also wrap any loose wires and wire bundles in some foam as well. Its a long process to figure out where the various resonances are and fixing them, but it makes a world of difference.

Im surprised by how clean your install is. You've done very well for a first timer. Keep up the good work and enjoy!



Open/Closed cell foam can be found for cheap here:
http://www.thefoamfactory.com

Closed cell- use the neoprene. It compresses and will decouple as well as be a sound blocker for exterior vehicle noise. 3/8" works well for me. The Volara is a stiffer, less pliable material and doesnt compress as much.

[I800C0LLECT]

I appreciate the comments. I like to go head first with everything I do. I refuse to accept mediocrity for the sake of less work. But I will shoot for best price/performance.

I was actually surprised that I didn't have as much vibration as I thought I would. But as I said earlier, I LP'd the R12 at 160hz/12db to help get some of the mid bass off the 346's. This helped a lot. It changed the dynamics of the sound but it wasn't a change for the bad by any means.

Wow! Great link! I really appreciate that. That's a tremendous help.

I'm still curious where the noise floor is coming from. Either the sundown or 9887 are my suspicions. It's actually not bad, I just hear it at much higher volumes. Somebody mentioned that our base will have a sound comp. this month of August so now I'm being overly critical of everything. I hope it's not dominated by the BB perspective. I have 600watts thrown at the R12 in 1.05 cubic feet I believe? I had planned for a two chambered box and 300 watts per R12 but I haven't been able to acquire the amp I'd like as of yet. Right now I believe the Qtc is around .53. Either way, the R12 is leaps and bounds above everybody elses sub I've heard as of late.

[I800C0LLECT]

Anybody have ideas about lowering the noise floor on the 9887? What if I keep the outputs low and utilize the built in line driver of the DQS to max out voltage?

[I800C0LLECT]

Now onto the next big hurdle. TUNING!! I've been trying to tune the passive setup but I have this nagging thought that if I can get rid of the passive crossovers and use all 4 channels(it would get rid of future "fill") then I could cross the tweets lower and maybe it would help with stage placement on my dash?

Anyways...It's a little disheartening to lean down forward and hear such good on-axis response only to lean back and know something isn't quite right with off axis. I've printed this:

Interactive Frequency Chart - Independent Recording Network


It has already helped tremendously but I definitely need some experience. Tightening up the sub freq's were easy. Apparently my vehicle has an issue with 47hz gains(-3db plz).

[I800C0LLECT]

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...sy-cmusic.html


That tuning method is a God send. I've been pillaging ideas and thoughts on how to tune for days. I sat around chasing sounds for way too long today then remembered the sticky for this.

It has been a tremendous help thus far. I can't wait to see what happens with the AF Base "competition". I'm hoping there's no standard for CD selection since it's not very organized. I guess I better pray it's based on SQ too. #9 on Focal CD #3 is amazing on the system. The stage and tonality are developing really well.

[I800C0LLECT]

I think I'm still up in the air with the 9887. If the opportunity comes around for a 9855 or 9835 I think I'll be sold.

[Jim85IROC]

Now that you've had the system together for a little while, do you care to comment on soundstage and imaging, and the overall quality of the sound coming from the front speakers? I'm looking into upgrading my 05 Comp G and what's bugging me the most is the lousy location of the factory speakers in the doors, especially with the tweeters aimed at the dash! I'm conflicted... I don't want to get involved to the point of changing or significantly modifying the factory locations, but I just don't know if the stock location is going to give me good results. Care to comment?

[I800C0LLECT]

Hrmmm. Currently I'm still tuning the system. I believe I reversed the polarity of one of the mids thus far. In addition, I flipped a switch on the passive crossover for on axis response from the right speaker and left the driver's side components switched to off axis response. Tweeters are both set at -3db. I'm still having issues with some frequencies carrying the stage left. However, I have not yet even touched any EQ adjustments.

The DIYMA R12 helps significantly with mid-bass however I am able to locate the sounds with a 125hz x-over point due to vibration. The slight cue pulls the stage a bit. Honestly, it's something I notice but nobody else does. I have not added any matting to panels. I attempted playing the mids as low as 63hz but my door panels will sometimes rattle at higher volumes. In addition, I'm a bigger fan of the mid-bass from the R12 than the 346is.

I attempted active since I haven't installed any rear fill and I couldn't tame the tweeters at all. It was pretty aggrivating but I was dealing with a few too many problems at once so I decided to back to passive for less of a learning curve. However, starting over with that is what really opened up my sound. I began to go through with a thorough method and I've only changed one or two items every few days. Now, every time somebody rides in the car they can immediately tell the difference.

The installation has already surpassed the expectations of my friends and family who know nothing about car audio. The stage is still sitting pretty close to my seated position and I wish I had kick panels. Leaning forward just a bit reveals a much better sound on-axis with these speakers. But again, I should be able to reproduce that with some EQ work to the off-axis response I'm receiving.

In the end, I'm very happy thus far...still not what I want though and I have yet to use the Audiocontrol to help with the imaging or sound.

Focal discs sound amazing and Alpine's Speed of Sound is great too.

[KARPE]

just wondering why use the 9887 AND the AudioControl?

[I800C0LLECT]

Originally Posted by KARPE

just wondering why use the 9887 AND the AudioControl?

The audiocontrol is a 31 band EQ. It doesn't contain cross overs at all. Some people presume that a good installation will rid yourself the need of an EQ, let alone 31 bands + 2 parametric. However, I don't have the tools or experience so I'm attempting to make up for my lack of quality installation w/ processing.

The 9887 maintains cross over capability + T/A. The original thought was that if I matched it with the DQS then I'd get the most out of budget equipment without the headache of creating custom panels, kicks, etc. So I can retain stock locations for my equipment.

If you research through the forums you'll find that you can do a lot with an EQ. i.e. move the stage even.

[brandont]

Great Job

Very neat and clean

[Born2Rock]

Great install. I wish I could hear it.

[I800C0LLECT]

I appreciate the responses. I'm actually kind of embarrassed when compared to other installs but it does sound pretty good thus far.

[I800C0LLECT]

Update!


I went active over the holiday weekend The mid-range was playing pretty low and you could tell. Now I'm crossing at 2.5khz w/24db slopes. The mids are bandpassed with an HP@200hz w/12db slope. It has opened up the speakers much more in their stock locations and the sound is airy as opposed to muffle due to the location of the mid. The R12 really helps to keep the mid-bass up front but vibrations in my vehicle still help you localize. I crossed the mids that way to keep vibrations off the doors. Later down the road when I add dampening this will probably change. I'm going to add polyfill behind the mids and deaden the door panels + add foam.

So this helps in a big way....

I can remove the passives, get rid of the Cap, and a SAZ-1000(getting rid of the TXA-3002) should maintain a footprint that allows me to move everything to the wheel well to create the false floor I had wanted. Moving to a Class D should also improve on power requirements.

I'm also looking into fiberglassing the subs into the rear corners of the trunk behind the tail lights.

Moving to a SAZ-1000 will allow me to run 2 woofers in a different box I have ready to go that will take my Qtc from .53 to .7 However, I am worried about running 2ohm vs. 4ohm in regards to SQ. Maybe I should just make a new box and keep the TXA-3002?

[I800C0LLECT]

*************UPDATE************

After LOTS of equipment changes I've never really talked about I kind of settled on a few things. I went active for a bit but found the 6db LP slope in the passives sounds really good with the a-pillar tweeter install.

[I800C0LLECT]

Here's the last four. I swapped from a Sundown Audio SAX-100.4D The mid-range is fuller now and the sound seems a bit smoother. Otherwise, nothing has really changed with speakers. I tried passive and active on the SAX with VERY good results. I've only tried the Leviathan w/passive cross overs at this point.

The Leviathan is definitely something I wish I had started with. In addition to great sound it's a smaller foot print for sure and really simplified my install. I've kind of figured out the issue with my staging in this vehicle.

Pontiac did something weird with "on center" driving yadda yadda yadda. Essentially, the driver's seat is somewhat angled(I think, never cared to look into what they did) and instead of perceiving the middle of the road with the middle of the car...the middle of the road is dead in front of you, mismatching what you see ON the road. So it might look like you're 3 feet from the center line but you're actually dead middle of the lane. It's a weird concept and most friends who drive take a second to get used to it. I really like it. But that whole concept effs up the staging. The console of the Grand Prix is therefore somewhat angled and the reflections off that pull the stage to the right due to the off axis constraints of the left Mid. I'm sure foam or something rather would help fix that issue. But I thought I'd point it out for any grand prix owners looking at this thread. I'm not really concerned with fixing it. I noticed that if I angle my body a bit the stage moves RIGHT in front of me and everything is perfect. Maybe I just sit in a weird position relative to the console? blah.












I'm thinking about adding a face plate to the amp rack with flush mount cut outs for the Leviathan and cross overs. In this picture I don't have the covers on the x-overs due to testing/mounting. I don't like the that they used a thin aluminum top with mounting feet in the original a/d/s/ design. It bends with very little pressure. Therefore, I drilled mounting locations underneath the PCB instead.


Now I have a blue glow...it blinks with the subwoofer, don't know if that's a good thing. Not sure if I like the 'free' lighting either.







What I like most is that unless you somewhat climb into the trunk and look up, you don't see my amp setup.

[schmiddr2]

Way to make that trunk useful again. Fiberglass is great. Good work.

Is that the grill from PE?

[I800C0LLECT]

Thanks. I guess I just really needed some time/tools and a garage to make it happen. Pretty simple for the most part. It took me a span of about two days to complete. The fiberglass finished drying through out the week while waiting on the amp. The grill is from parts express...I think $25 shipped or something rather for 2 of them? I don't recall. I plan on getting it powder coated so it doesn't scratch up so easily

[Motown]

Great install! I have an '04 GTP and I'm looking to do an upgrade soon.

How did the tweeters sound when you put them in the factory location? And I assume they were off-axis?

[I800C0LLECT]

Factory locations off axis with my tweeters wasn't all that great :/ I never got anything that sounded great while the tweeters were mounted there. There was such a difference in sound moving a few inches forward or backward. It really wasn't pretty at all.

I tried a few different placements before ending with them in the pillars angled with the glass. I can definitely handle that over the other locations. Mids do ok down there but if you want mid-bass expect some rattle unless you do a real good job with door preparation.

[eviling]

wow, great build for a "rookie" shit thats better work than i do and i dont consider my self a rookie :\


anyways, why did you reinvorce the ground like that on your rca's of your deck??