I have been spending all of my online forum time the past three years on SoundDomain. I stop by here from time to time, usually browsing the classifieds section. I'd like to spend some more time here when i'm overflowing with free time (*chuckle*).
Anyway, i've been heavily involved with car audio since 1993. I learned the hard way, mostly watching friends fawk things up. I started simple, selling home audio (which i was active with since i was 13) in order to bankroll a system. I always put an emphasis on music and speakers, not just subs. Every vehicle I have gets a system, and they always get progressively more complex. However, I was usually limited in what i would do based on previous experience. not having formal training meant i had to teach everything to myself, and i was always more qualified than the people i know. living in the midwest, there weren't many shows around here, but i did build relationships with local shops. One in particular was very helpful, and the sales guy i talked to the most was an IASCA competitor in the late 90's and early 2000's. He ran a late 80's Monte Carlo with Oz Audio, Alpine, and PG. He even made a few mags with his ride and took home some firsts.
Ever since, i've always wanted to build a 3-way active front stage. Now, i'm doing it.
The car is a 2001 Honda Accord EX V6. It is stock other than my sound system and alarm. I'm not a ricer, and not racing this. I want the end result to look mostly factory, no bulbous enclosures that are plainly visible from outside the car.
I've taken hundreds of pictures of this car over the past four years. i'm going to keep this relevant to the new build, with fewer pictures. you can see the previous work and all pics at Sound Domain.
I love my job; I'm an Acoustics Engineer using my Electrical Engineering degree - it's awesome stuff. My 2001 Accord Build Log
I'll start in the trunk with the amp racks. My previous system used a pair of Xtant 403A amplifiers in the driver's side storage area. They sit pretty flush with the trunk opening.
i added a fan behind my amp rack that blows out behind the rear bumper. i had previously removed the plastic vent and installed deadener over the opening. that vent is important, but i didn't want stuff coming into the trunk. the fan solves that problem and provides additional general cooling.
i made a quick baffle and sealed it with a couple coats of paint. then used silicone to adhere it to the deadener. if i need to remove it i can just pry it apart. i used bolts to hold the fan in place so that it could also be removed when it fails.
i went through my amp rack, strengthened the build and added steel behind the amps to help increase strength. construction grade screws and Titebond III help keep it solid. Amps utilize T-nuts for mounting. really, i should just rebuild the whole thing from MDF but i will save that for a later project.
i then covered it in carpet, something i hadn't done before but wished i had.
some pics of it fitting in with the other pieces. ignore the random wiring. it's not connected yet.
I love my job; I'm an Acoustics Engineer using my Electrical Engineering degree - it's awesome stuff. My 2001 Accord Build Log
I decided on the spare tire well due to it's size and ease. also, it will keep the gear and wiring short and hidden. the signal paths are at the rear of the car, far from anything that can produce noise.
i built the framework and amp rack out of 1/2" MDF. i used PL200 and construction grade screws (no drywall screws here) to secure the rack. I used T-nuts and bolts to secure the gear.
end result:
framework in place
framework underneath - yes i meant for the screw tips to stick out. the heads are countersunk.
i also got my ground worked out. this took about 2-3 hours one night including two hours of brainstorming of how to make this work best. in the end it looks simple, but it's location is perfect to keep all amp grounds short and also let me bolt the ground safely. 1/0 ground to a distro block, 4awg ground to each amp.
as good as it gets - sanded and bolted
bolt head and washer - this will be coated over later
i didn't want four more holes in the trunk, so i used silicone to adhere the ground block. it isn't going anywhere.
total assembly
I love my job; I'm an Acoustics Engineer using my Electrical Engineering degree - it's awesome stuff. My 2001 Accord Build Log
i should note that i will be running the tweeters on Front 1 output, the midbass on Front 2 output, and the midrange on the Rear outputs. that will give me an independent 20Hz-20kHz 1/3rd octave eq for each midrange driver (thanks Andy!).
the two xtant 403a amps will be located in the same place. i need to figure out where the xtant 3300x is going.
these are the front stage drivers (ran active)
sub is still up for debate - i plan on testing a few different types and configurations. so the trunk will need to remain both functional and flexible. i do not want to take up any more spaced that i previously did.
I love my job; I'm an Acoustics Engineer using my Electrical Engineering degree - it's awesome stuff. My 2001 Accord Build Log
Re-did my kicks this weekend. fixed my midrange mount. Andy pointed out that right angles aren't ideal for midrange speakers. he is totally right. so i remade my mounts
speaker gasketing foam on basket
t-nuts as usual. notice the cut out for the mounting tabs.
one 3/4" layer and one 1/2" layer of MDF
made the opening on the base larger. it used to be a square. so it's not a perfect circle - neither is the opening in the metal. i prefer non-symmetry for speaker enclosures anyway.
t-nuts on the base - the speaker baffle attaches to the base with 1/4-20 T-nuts and bolts. i will seal up the base to the car with a combination of silicone, foam, modeling clay, and deadener. then my baffle will be removable. that way i can easily swap out midrange drivers in the future.
new result is free from unnecessary edges and angles
I love my job; I'm an Acoustics Engineer using my Electrical Engineering degree - it's awesome stuff. My 2001 Accord Build Log
I love modeling clay. Thanks Team Sound Domain for your recommendations and build logs, i wouldn't have used it without them.
Screws hold the panels down, PL adhesive is used to secure the midbass baffle to the floor, and modeling clay ensures the midrange cavity is smooth and well sealed. I painted the baffles with several coats of primer and paint to help with water resistance. The bolts holding the removable midrange baffle utilize T-nuts in the vehicle baffle. I used the last of my deadener to cover the modeling clay and some select areas. everything is now sealed. I will need to get some Second Skin to cover the whole car eventually.
Passenger side
Here you can see the relocated computer, mounted to the bottom of the passenger side A/C area. there is a lot of crap here.
i will be covering these with some thin closed cell foam to smooth out the edges and bolt heads. Then I need to make grills and covers for them.
Driver's Side
i wanted to do this when i could let the car sit for more than a day, letting the adhesives cure. Those bolts are a bit temporary. i needed 1/4-20 bolts that were long enough, but i intend on countersunk bolts for a flush appearance.
next i need to figure out how i want to route the speaker wires. silly me, i could have just routed them BEFORE i sealed them up. now it will be a bit more involved, but i'll get it taken care of soon.
I love my job; I'm an Acoustics Engineer using my Electrical Engineering degree - it's awesome stuff. My 2001 Accord Build Log
Last edited by keep_hope_alive; 09-26-2009 at 04:28 PM..
I would like to apologize for the cheapest deadener available being in these pics. i deadened this a few years ago and still had enough left to seal things up. i've been trying to bankroll a few shop packs of Damplifier Pro. Some day i'll go back over everything and do it right. For now, just forgive the "thinmat" deadener.
I love my job; I'm an Acoustics Engineer using my Electrical Engineering degree - it's awesome stuff. My 2001 Accord Build Log
Midbass drivers are vented to the exterior. Luckily the accord had a nice cavity i was able to exploit. hopefully a 2" vent will be sufficient. if not, i'll have to get creative.
driver side
driver side
passenger side
passenger side
driver side
driver side
I love my job; I'm an Acoustics Engineer using my Electrical Engineering degree - it's awesome stuff. My 2001 Accord Build Log
The midrange drivers are vented into the lower a-pillar cavity. the details of how all of these cuts were made are on SoundDomain. I had to relocate a factory "computer" and the hood latch. not a big deal, no wires were cut to relocate.
the RUX-C701 is mounted in my sunglasses holder. the controller cable is routed along the roof to the C-pillar.
and I think i'm putting the CHA-S624 in the glove box. i'll make a flush panel, trim everything in vinyl or carpet, and even add a pocket above the changer for either CD cases or vehicle documents.
power wires are protected with tech flex. i have two different colors for powerwire - clear and red. ground wires are brown or black. i wanted different color power wires so i always knew which was which.
all processor and signal cables go high, same as before. all wires are in split loom except one Ai-Net cable has tech flex. the RUX-C701 control cable travels up the C-pillar.
more aluminum foil tape to secure the wires. this stuff really works great.
speaker wires come in low, same as before. what i did improve on was the wires' proximity to factory side panels. i had an issue with my two rear sill panels due to the excessive wiring. that problem is solved now.
we split the wires to clear the factory mounts and bolts.
they route on the floor (rear passenger side still needs deadening, i'll just do that when i do my second skin install
for now, the wire is coiled up. the lengths are perfect and the routing is away from the center console (which solves some previous problems. the path is where the factory air duct used to be, so i know there is ample space
the only critique i have right now is that i didn't label the outside of the loom. i may go back and do that if it is in the rulebook. i have labels, i just wasn't thinking. i also plan on adding sound absorbing material to the floor - i will cut it to fit between the wires so, in the end, the loom + material is even. if i just put carpet on now you may be able to tell where the wire is.
I love my job; I'm an Acoustics Engineer using my Electrical Engineering degree - it's awesome stuff. My 2001 Accord Build Log
sub was IB/Aperiodic. the grille in the trunk was on both sides of the rear enclosure, and sandwiched acousti-stuff. i could vary the density pretty easy. the rear board had a hole cut that lined up with the rear grille so the sub could play through the aperiodic stuffing and a layer of carpet.
this time around, i won't have a need for processors and a changer on either side. so i have the entire width and height for a sub enclosure. the sub is still undecided. for now, i'm running the same setup, it is out of the way and i only lost 9" of trunk depth. i would like the new install to be no deeper than this.
I love my job; I'm an Acoustics Engineer using my Electrical Engineering degree - it's awesome stuff. My 2001 Accord Build Log
The CDA-7930 will be my HU most likely. Until i find a DVA-7996 or DVA-9851.
i have a sheet of ABS waiting to modify the double din opening to neatly flush up a single din radio. i may include digital gauges, i may not.
front doors with factory grills reinstalled (i removed them previously). the stock locations are not used. i currently have a set of Massive Audio components in there to get me by while i'm building this.
still don't have carpet or lower trim back in. you may notice i've painted the factory trim silver. i like it a lot better.
previously, the Alpine SPX-177R tweeters were located in the apillars
I don't know where the OZ tweeters will live this time. i'd like to get them down by the midbass and midrange, for obvious reasons. but i've been told a second set running above 8kHz located up high (apillar or dash) will help raise my sound stage. i'll start with the OZ tweeters low, and i have some other tweeters laying around i can test with for secondary locations.
I love my job; I'm an Acoustics Engineer using my Electrical Engineering degree - it's awesome stuff. My 2001 Accord Build Log
i will not have rear speakers in this install. i won't have door speakers either.
i was previously very happy with my SPX-177R comp set up front and the Type-R sub in the rear running off two Xtant amps and controlled by a CDA-7930 and ERA-G320. i didn't miss rear speakers then, i won't miss them now.
90% of the car is covered in one layer of "thinmat". as previously mentioned, my goal is two layers of Damplifier Pro. When I have $600 sitting around, i'll buy it. until then, the "thinmat" is better than factory (nothing) and is fine for sealing up openings and such and since i had it sitting around, i used it. i'll never buy that stuff again, not worth using 3-4 layers to get the same performance of one layer of the good stuff.
i have an Autopage C3-RS900-LCD alarm with bypass waiting to be installed. I'll be doing that myself in the next couple weeks.
I have some older JL subs sitting around. I have some even older Hollywood Sound Labs (JLW4 replicas) sitting around, some free-air Pioneer's, an Image Dynamics ID10D4, and the Alpine SWR-1242. My preference, if money was no object, would be Imcriminator Audio Flatlyne, but i would bankroll deadner before a $700 sub. I'd like an Oz Audio sub, but it would have to be a used Matrix Elite. Most likely, i'll end up buying an Ultra LV10 or LV12 pair.
I love my job; I'm an Acoustics Engineer using my Electrical Engineering degree - it's awesome stuff. My 2001 Accord Build Log
I'm looking for input on my mibass and midrange aiming. and for a tweeter location. i've seen this setup done plenty of times before in successful systems, so i know it can work. i have enough tuning capability with the H701, but almost too much.
i'll start tuning with an RTA, do each driver separate and then combined. i want something that images from both seats. i don't plan on competing, mostly because there aren't shows near me and my schedule doesn't allow much travel outside of work.
suggestions on where to place and how to aim the tweeters are appreciated. i'll do my own testing, but i'd like some locations to try first.
i've been trying to find a place to put a 10" up front under the dash. i'd have to sacrifice the heat/air vents to do that. not realistic right now. there is one spot under the driver's side dash that is almost big enough for a 10, the enclosure would extend up under the factory tweeter. for now, i'm going to work on a rear sub install. comments or suggestions on a box that is 33" wide, 16" tall, and less than 9" deep are welcome. i was going to build a couple different boxes, and have Bass Box Pro 6 to assist with the design.
I love my job; I'm an Acoustics Engineer using my Electrical Engineering degree - it's awesome stuff. My 2001 Accord Build Log
What freq range are your midbass playing? IMHO midbass direction doesn't matter much if they aren't playing too high (<200Hz or so with 24dB slope).
I have a cousin to the Accord, an Acura TSX, and have built MDF/fiberglass midbass kickpod enclosures which are around 0.2 cubes sealed. Have you had a chance to listen to your midbass with the exterior vent setup and how do you like them?
For the midranges, since I used up all my kickpanel space for the midbass, I ended up doing midranges in the stock door locations, but angled up and back a bit. I still had some issues with off-axis rolloff of the driver's side mid above 1kHz which I'd imagine you may also have to contend with. This is one huge advantage of going active on the front stage...you can EQ the upper freqencies of the mid driver without affecting the tweeter's response.
I ended up mounting tweeters right at the corners of the dash, on the A-pillars. The tweeters are angled up and across, aiming at the roof above the opposite person's head. I found this location and aiming to be the one that worked best for me, probably 30 degrees off axis on the near side and 15 degrees off axis on the far side. After comparing a few tweeters I ended up going with these tweets for their off-axis capability, sparkle up top, and cheap cost: Vifa DQ25SC16-04 1" titanium Dome Tweeter from Madisound
For the sub, I did some experiments with sub placement in an Accord (my wife's car - http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...ion-trunk.html ). If you do a rear sub, you might want to try placing the box close to the rear bumper and firing the sub toward the back of the car.
Quote:
Originally Posted by keep_hope_alive
Why i posted it here:
I'm looking for input on my mibass and midrange aiming. and for a tweeter location. i've seen this setup done plenty of times before in successful systems, so i know it can work. i have enough tuning capability with the H701, but almost too much.
i'll start tuning with an RTA, do each driver separate and then combined. i want something that images from both seats. i don't plan on competing, mostly because there aren't shows near me and my schedule doesn't allow much travel outside of work.
suggestions on where to place and how to aim the tweeters are appreciated. i'll do my own testing, but i'd like some locations to try first.
i've been trying to find a place to put a 10" up front under the dash. i'd have to sacrifice the heat/air vents to do that. not realistic right now. there is one spot under the driver's side dash that is almost big enough for a 10, the enclosure would extend up under the factory tweeter. for now, i'm going to work on a rear sub install. comments or suggestions on a box that is 33" wide, 16" tall, and less than 9" deep are welcome. i was going to build a couple different boxes, and have Bass Box Pro 6 to assist with the design.
2009 USACi finals: 2nd place basic consumer SQ. Build log. Car audio is just a game of physics.
The midbass questions - i haven't installed them yet, those picks of the installed baffles are a week old. i need to route speaker wires, and get the trunk wired up before i'll install the midbass. i haven't heard it yet. i figure i can play with different materials inside the cavity, sealed and not, after everything is wired up correctly. my wiring is 50% complete, some of it is routed well, some has yet to be routed in a final location. i have spent a great deal of time on the wiring so far, and i'll spend many more hours getting the routing just right.
crossover settings - we'll see. due to the location of the midbass being pretty optimal, i have no problem playing it higher than 200Hz, but i don't like crossovers in the vocal range either. so we'll see. i may end up not needing the midrange at all, we'll see. i figured it best to build it with both now, then i can spend the next few years tuning. the midrange baffle has two layers so i can remove the outer one and make replacements to accept different midrange drivers. i wanted flexibility. the midbass location could also accept and 8" if i ever wanted, i would just need to increase the opening size and make a second layer. future expansion capabilities was another system requirement.
i've been playing with the OZ tweeter and i'm very happy. i've wanted OZ speakers since the late 90's but couldn't afford them then. if i get a second set of tweeters, they will be identical to my current set.
A new Question:
when running a second set of tweeters to increase stage height (one in the kick, one above the dash) should i have separate tuning for them? separate T/A? separate eq? right now, i could run them in parallel with the kick tweeters but i don't have extra channels to power and control them separately. is this just a bad idea overall? i've never ran two tweeter pairs up front before. i guess i'll just experiment with the single set for now.
I love my job; I'm an Acoustics Engineer using my Electrical Engineering degree - it's awesome stuff. My 2001 Accord Build Log
I thought you were trying to copy Andy-Mutha-F-in-Jones!
Lets fix your tweeter placement, those xt19's hate to be positioned like that, I have the same car and had those tweeters at one point too. You dont think they disperse a little too narrow?
of note: neither of the baffles extend past factory panels or carpet. the midbass baffle is flush with the factory deadening. the midrange baffle is the same depth as the factory computer it replaces, so the factory kickpanels could cover it up. so nothing i've done in the kick takes up any more space than factory panels and carpet - that was one design goal.
i don't want to put grilles in the factory plastic panels because i don't want to hurt the already off-axis response of the midrange. i want as much off-axis response as i can get.
for starters, i'll use a fiberglass mold to smooth out everything and prevent sharp angles from causing unwanted refraction.
then i'll make a wire frame and grill cloth cover for starters. something that is as acoustically transparent as possible. that way i can get the drivers installed and operational.
then i'll work on something with an integral grille like Scott's 240z install.
I love my job; I'm an Acoustics Engineer using my Electrical Engineering degree - it's awesome stuff. My 2001 Accord Build Log
I thought you were trying to copy Andy-Mutha-F-in-Jones!
Lets fix your tweeter placement, those xt19's hate to be positioned like that, I have the same car and had those tweeters at one point too. You dont think they disperse a little too narrow?
AFMJ also has a similar install, as have lots of previous competitors. i figure, if it's good enough for world finals, it's good enough for my car.
totally ignore the Alpine XT19's - they are sold and long gone. i wasn't happy with that location either. now I have a Oz Audio CS100 and CS180 set for my 3-way. the Oz tweeters will require their own testing to determine a good location and aiming.
I love my job; I'm an Acoustics Engineer using my Electrical Engineering degree - it's awesome stuff. My 2001 Accord Build Log
2001 Honda Accord DIY SQ
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