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Old 01-26-2017   #3451
 
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Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elektra View Post
Trust me.... I have many $1000's in equipment at home waiting to be installed....

But right now .... I have a std OEM system in my E90 wide band mids in the door bass under your butt rears and no tweeters and my IPhone connected to the BMW AUX and for now it's decent enough to listen to music while I drive

For some reason the E90 sounds a lot better than my F10 OEM system....


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I use to have a 2005 E90 with the second from the base sound system,
it was before the facelift on the E90... no bluetooth too.
it came with sub under the seat, mid in the door and tweeter in the a pillar.
Mine is the RHD version back in my home country...
yours don't have tweeter?
anyway, yes it sound quite good for standard OEM system...
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Old 01-26-2017   #3452
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Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW Alpina View Post
I use to have a 2005 E90 with the second from the base sound system,
it was before the facelift on the E90... no bluetooth too.
it came with sub under the seat, mid in the door and tweeter in the a pillar.
Mine is the RHD version back in my home country...
yours don't have tweeter?
anyway, yes it sound quite good for standard OEM system...


Mine has no tweeter also RHD... pretty decent actually


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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #3453
 
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Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

Interesting, I'm a big Sounstream guy (my handle) and am in the midst of install in my older E39 M5. Had the dsp system with 2 IB 10s. Sounded decent but had to put my old stash to some use. Now running Reference 10Rs and 2 Class A Picasso's


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Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elektra View Post
Trust me.... I have many $1000's in equipment at home waiting to be installed....

But right now .... I have a std OEM system in my E90 wide band mids in the door bass under your butt rears and no tweeters and my IPhone connected to the BMW AUX and for now it's decent enough to listen to music while I drive

For some reason the E90 sounds a lot better than my F10 OEM system....


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E90 is the easiest upgrade EVER. Stock locations are good, depending on HU, signal is flat. Morel is almost a straight swap (need to make thin adapters -- or call Musicar). Even without DSP, these cars are just great for stock location upgrades. woofers under the seats only play 70-200 so no need for upgrade there!!!!!!

BMW >> Mobridge DA3 >> Arc 600/4 to Morel 230 tweets/Morel Hybrid 4" mids and Arc 600/4 to stock Harmon Kardon 8" mid-basses and single 10W3.
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Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbradlawrence View Post
E90 is the easiest upgrade EVER. Stock locations are good, depending on HU, signal is flat. Morel is almost a straight swap (need to make thin adapters -- or call Musicar). Even without DSP, these cars are just great for stock location upgrades. woofers under the seats only play 70-200 so no need for upgrade there!!!!!!


Gonna run a passive system - kit 7 with crossblock and a Sony and a HV Venti for the fronts and Thesis Due for the subs - gonna use either one or 2 Focal 33WX subs


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Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elektra View Post
Gonna run a passive system - kit 7 with crossblock and a Sony and a HV Venti for the fronts and Thesis Due for the subs - gonna use either one or 2 Focal 33WX subs


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Curious, redo door to put 6.5 in? That's way more work than my simple "plug and play" with slim woofers underseats.

BMW >> Mobridge DA3 >> Arc 600/4 to Morel 230 tweets/Morel Hybrid 4" mids and Arc 600/4 to stock Harmon Kardon 8" mid-basses and single 10W3.
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Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbradlawrence View Post
Curious, redo door to put 6.5 in? That's way more work than my simple "plug and play" with slim woofers underseats.


Yeah that's my plan redo the door to fit the midbass drivers - use possibly the stock 4" position for the midrange and sail for the tweeters

Just need to investigate the PLD on the drivers to try get them close to each other on each side

Use the limited Sony DSP and hope for the best - all else fails - Helix DSP PRO MKii will be used


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Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

I come from the speaker home theater world.

Using the same pair of speakers, cables, power brick, and just changing the amp.

Class A 40wpc Single Ended Triode tube amp $6000msrp
vs
Class D 100wpc solid state amp $3000msrp

The tube amp is better at everything. bass is not as flabby, vocals are smoother. and highs are not overly bright and shrieking.
I am not sure why the class A at a lower power rating using 87db/1W efficiency speakers are a lot louder than the class D amp.

Suffice to say I sold the class D and I now love tubes.

I went to a purist meet someone using An Audionote $100,000 tube amp 45wpc, I was jealous of how that sounded. TLDR it is just my opinion that you do hit the glass ceiling, louder is not better, there are huge diminishing returns at some point. but overall I do see higher end amps > an average amp.

One day Ill be on time.
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Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainstar View Post
I come from the speaker home theater world.



Using the same pair of speakers, cables, power brick, and just changing the amp.



Class A 40wpc Single Ended Triode tube amp $6000msrp

vs

Class D 100wpc solid state amp $3000msrp



The tube amp is better at everything. bass is not as flabby, vocals are smoother. and highs are not overly bright and shrieking.

I am not sure why the class A at a lower power rating using 87db/1W efficiency speakers are a lot louder than the class D amp.



Suffice to say I sold the class D and I now love tubes.



I went to a purist meet someone using An Audionote $100,000 tube amp 45wpc, I was jealous of how that sounded. TLDR it is just my opinion that you do hit the glass ceiling, louder is not better, there are huge diminishing returns at some point. but overall I do see higher end amps > an average amp.


I did a test with a HV Venti and a Brax MX2 and if I was put in a room and did a blind test I would not only tell a difference but I'll be able to tell you which amp is being played

Such was the difference between the 2... 2 very different sounding amps both excellent at what they designed to do...


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Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

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Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

What I find absolutely amusing is that all of you praising high end gear getting rid of your high end amplifiers right after such topic pops up on the forum again.

Here is life story for you....

Once upon a time I was a friend with very famous jazz musician.
In his band he has 2 drummers, one old and another young and energetic.
young dude was crazy fast , older dude not as much.
when I asked what is the deal with two drummers, he said:
" young dude still looking for his style, old one already found it."

It seems like most people don't care to actually understand reality.
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In theory, different amps are built with different components, thus offering up different levels of distortion. This can obviously affect the sound signature. In most cases, if one amp has a cleaner sound, and it is audible, it will be due to the distortion percentage of that particular amp being lower than the one it sounds better than.

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Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

not this again, stick meet horse

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Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioHeir View Post
In theory, different amps are built with different components, thus offering up different levels of distortion. This can obviously affect the sound signature. In most cases, if one amp has a cleaner sound, and it is audible, it will be due to the distortion percentage of that particular amp being lower than the one it sounds better than.
You might want to test yourself and see when you can hear distortion.
Also the speakers themselves cover up most of it.
Basic consensus. Nobody is hearing 1% THD, I barely hear 5%
You control the amplifiers distortion level.
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Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elektra View Post
I did a test with a HV Venti and a Brax MX2 and if I was put in a room and did a blind test I would not only tell a difference but I'll be able to tell you which amp is being played

Such was the difference between the 2... 2 very different sounding amps both excellent at what they designed to do...


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Then do it. There are a couple people out there offering large sums of cash to anyone who can reliably do this.

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Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

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Then do it. There are a couple people out there offering large sums of cash to anyone who can reliably do this.
reliably is a key word. Everyone suddenly lost confidence in their abilities. It`s comical really.

It seems like most people don't care to actually understand reality.
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Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

Quote:
Originally Posted by DC/Hertz View Post
You might want to test yourself and see when you can hear distortion.
Also the speakers themselves cover up most of it.
Basic consensus. Nobody is hearing 1% THD, I barely hear 5%
You control the amplifiers distortion level.
I'd say the absolute minimum is more around .3% (-50dB). I can consistently get down to .5%. But your point is still valid though since there isn't an amplifier out there worth its salt that has a sub clipping distortion level over .1%.


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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #3468
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Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor_inox View Post
reliably is a key word. Everyone suddenly lost confidence in their abilities. It`s comical really.
I guess your talking about the infamous Richard Clark $10,000 Amp Challenge. In reality the challenge was just a simple scientific test, a test that was actually testing ones hearing, not the amps. In a scientific test one eliminates all variables except for the one being tested. What was being tested was the listener's ability to hear differences between two amps that were adjusted to perform identically. Clark would tune all the amps, even down to adding filters and eq to the amps, to get them to produce the SAME signal at one volume level below clipping. The amps were adjusted to be identical. Then you had to go through several rounds of testing before he would pay out the money, which statistically cut down the listener's chance of winning the challenge. Every listening test of every round had to be perfectly picked or the challenge was over. I know of two people that actually won the challenge and afterwards Clark retested the amps and found one of them not to be adjusted equally with the other one being tested. He voided the challenge and would not pay out the money.

My opinion is that in the real world where amps are not adjusted to sound the same, amps can and do sound different, and although Clark was controversial and a real big bullsh!tter in the car audio world of the '90s, his technical teachings about car audio are valid.

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Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

Anyone ever thought about having high end amps on display in your ride at a competition just for eye candy but have something inexpensive but effective tucked away in hiding dishing the power? Would be a good way to really mess with people. I'd be willing to bet money that for a lot of people those decoy higher end amps would make the system sound better to people who weren't aware of the smoke and mirrors going on.

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Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hillbilly SQ View Post
Anyone ever thought about having high end amps on display in your ride at a competition just for eye candy but have something inexpensive but effective tucked away in hiding dishing the power? Would be a good way to really mess with people. I'd be willing to bet money that for a lot of people those decoy higher end amps would make the system sound better to people who weren't aware of the smoke and mirrors going on.
I've thought about that scenario as well. Of course it wouldn't take long for the cat to get out of the bag. You might get 4-5 people to audition the system before word would get around the event. That is, IF you came clean with the listeners as to what was really going on.
Would be an interesting experiment nonetheless.

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Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

Im working on scenario like that since no one accepted my challenge yet.

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Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

I have very small amplifiers easy to hide. And very high end amps for looks.

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Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

who cares, this is the stupidest test there ever was. it proves nothing other than to feed ones ego, you have zero to gain except to say "i told u so", i guess that makes one feel accomplished

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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #3474
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Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

I level matched the Brax MX2 and HV Venti exactly and one amp you could hear sibilance and the other you could not...

But hey I must have imagined it....


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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #3475
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Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

Quote:
Originally Posted by Porsche View Post
who cares, this is the stupidest test there ever was. it proves nothing other than to feed ones ego, you have zero to gain except to say "i told u so", i guess that makes one feel accomplished
It shows people to pay attention to what really matters.

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It seems like most people don't care to actually understand reality.
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