HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH - Page 26 - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-08-2014   #626
DIYMA 500 Club
Upgrade Your Membership!
 
Victor_inox's Avatar
 
Victory Sonics
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 8,504

12V Company:
Victory Sonics
Position:
Owner

Thanks: 137
Thanked 96 Times in 84 Posts
Rep Power: 155 Victor_inox is a jewel in the roughVictor_inox is a jewel in the roughVictor_inox is a jewel in the roughVictor_inox is a jewel in the roughVictor_inox is a jewel in the roughVictor_inox is a jewel in the roughVictor_inox is a jewel in the roughVictor_inox is a jewel in the roughVictor_inox is a jewel in the roughVictor_inox is a jewel in the roughVictor_inox is a jewel in the rough


iTrader: (105)



Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

Quote:
Originally Posted by KENNEY View Post
Talk to some sound engineers, I am sure they would be more than happy to debate that with you.
Most people will agree with him, not many people knows how music suppose to sound. knowing what listen for gathered by years of experience and knowledgeable mentor.
It`s killing me to hear how some people saying that this amp is 100 time better than other. how absolute terms can be applied to subjective matter is beyond me. Manufacturers driven by profit, they make way more making cheapo crap for average user. most users driven by marketing.
expensive amps , engineered better, assembled better and use better parts to acomplish the same thing. Some manufacturers prefer to drop a line of less profitable products that to adjust to competition lower prices by moving production to cheaper places and use cheap parts. Some still adjust in hope to sell by their established reputation. Highest quality stuff from 30years before and now still cost a fortune. best 2" multitracker was 1/4 of a million dollars 30 years ago, they have on of the best digital system now and owned by Harman Studer [Homepage]

It seems like most people don't care to actually understand reality.
Victor_inox is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 04-08-2014   #627
DIYMA 500 Club
 
DIYMA Addict
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sweden
Age: 30
Posts: 4,701

Thanks: 0
Thanked 18 Times in 9 Posts
Rep Power: 298 Hanatsu has a reputation beyond reputeHanatsu has a reputation beyond reputeHanatsu has a reputation beyond reputeHanatsu has a reputation beyond reputeHanatsu has a reputation beyond reputeHanatsu has a reputation beyond reputeHanatsu has a reputation beyond reputeHanatsu has a reputation beyond reputeHanatsu has a reputation beyond reputeHanatsu has a reputation beyond reputeHanatsu has a reputation beyond repute


iTrader: (0)



Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

Another good read:

24/192 Music Downloads are Very Silly Indeed

# In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act # (George Orwell)

- Build Thread 1, Mercedes-Benz E 320T (2000) -

- Build Thread 2, VW Passat 1.8T (2000) -
Hanatsu is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-08-2014   #628
DIYMA 500 Club
 
DIYMA Regular
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: IN
Posts: 669

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 162 squeak9798 is a jewel in the roughsqueak9798 is a jewel in the roughsqueak9798 is a jewel in the roughsqueak9798 is a jewel in the roughsqueak9798 is a jewel in the roughsqueak9798 is a jewel in the roughsqueak9798 is a jewel in the roughsqueak9798 is a jewel in the roughsqueak9798 is a jewel in the roughsqueak9798 is a jewel in the roughsqueak9798 is a jewel in the rough


iTrader: (12)



Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

Quote:
Originally Posted by KENNEY View Post
Talk to some sound engineers, I am sure they would be more than happy to debate that with you.
And many electrical and acoustic engineers that agree with him. What's your point ?
squeak9798 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-08-2014   #629
DIYMA 500 Club
 
WestCo's Avatar
 
DIYMA Enthusiast
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 1,317


Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 74 WestCo will become famous soon enoughWestCo will become famous soon enoughWestCo will become famous soon enoughWestCo will become famous soon enoughWestCo will become famous soon enoughWestCo will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (25)



Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

Quote:
Originally Posted by cleansoundz View Post
I have used several amps over the past 6 years ranging from RF, LP, McIntosh, MTX, PPI, ARC AUDIO, POLK AUDIO, JBL, ZED, LANZAR OPTI, JL AUDIO, KICKER, ECLIPSE, Etc, Etc. While some amps did have a sound that was pleasing to the ear, I noticed that amps with higher power ratings set to a decent pair of speakers whether they were separates or coaxials sounded just as good as the so called higher end amps. My point is an 100 watt x 4 channel of a good brand sounded just as clean, crisp and clear as the so called higher end brands such as Brax, McIntosh, etc. The same applied to bass as well. I swapped out several good brand of amps with higher end amps to notice very little difference in sound quality using a sealed enclosure. If this is the case, why spend so much money on the so-called higher end brands?
RF- Never ran
LP - Never ran
Mcintosh- MCC404m and 320- good amps but excessively warm sounding, but pleasant to the ear, with a top end roll off
Arc Audio (SE series) - very good, better than the Mac's a bit on the dry side but still very good
MTX- never ran
PPI - very good amps for the price, not in the same league as ARC Se's but still very good.
Polk - never ran
JBL - similar to Mac, too warm but good, no top end roll off
Lanzar Opti - probably the best bang for the buck you can get next to the ppi
balanced overall and a great mix of detail and warmth.
JL audio - way to dry sounding, but very detailed
Kicker - I wouldn't put that in my car maybe a warhorse
Eclipse - ran a budget eclipse it was ok
Stock Zapco - I didn't care for, too dry (Z400.2) the only zapco's I really like are modded by matt R, otherwise I wouldn't run them. Maybe OS Zapco, but even those are too warm sounding.

Hope this helps

I speak the truth because I care...
Pioneer ODR RS-D7xIII / RS-P90X; Modded Zapco C2k 4.0; Stock C2k 6.0; 2 - ID12; Illusion Audio C8; Scanspeak 2904-6000
WestCo is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-08-2014   #630
DIYMA 500 Club
 
WestCo's Avatar
 
DIYMA Enthusiast
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 1,317


Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 74 WestCo will become famous soon enoughWestCo will become famous soon enoughWestCo will become famous soon enoughWestCo will become famous soon enoughWestCo will become famous soon enoughWestCo will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (25)



Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

Zed leviathan V3 is also a winner overall. Clean and balanced but there is some symbalance.

I speak the truth because I care...
Pioneer ODR RS-D7xIII / RS-P90X; Modded Zapco C2k 4.0; Stock C2k 6.0; 2 - ID12; Illusion Audio C8; Scanspeak 2904-6000
WestCo is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-08-2014   #631
DIYMA 500 Club
 
Golden Ear's Avatar
 
DIYMA Enthusiast
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Monterey
Age: 35
Posts: 2,152

Thanks: 1
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 81 Golden Ear will become famous soon enoughGolden Ear will become famous soon enoughGolden Ear will become famous soon enoughGolden Ear will become famous soon enoughGolden Ear will become famous soon enoughGolden Ear will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (15)



Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCo View Post
RF- Never ran
LP - Never ran
Mcintosh- MCC404m and 320- good amps but excessively warm sounding, but pleasant to the ear, with a top end roll off
Arc Audio (SE series) - very good, better than the Mac's a bit on the dry side but still very good
MTX- never ran
PPI - very good amps for the price, not in the same league as ARC Se's but still very good.
Polk - never ran
JBL - similar to Mac, too warm but good, no top end roll off
Lanzar Opti - probably the best bang for the buck you can get next to the ppi
balanced overall and a great mix of detail and warmth.
JL audio - way to dry sounding, but very detailed
Kicker - I wouldn't put that in my car maybe a warhorse
Eclipse - ran a budget eclipse it was ok
Stock Zapco - I didn't care for, too dry (Z400.2) the only zapco's I really like are modded by matt R, otherwise I wouldn't run them. Maybe OS Zapco, but even those are too warm sounding.

Hope this helps
What does a "dry" amp sound like? I have the JL HDs and that description would never have crossed my mind. Actually, I can't tell the amps apart from the PDXs I have in another vehicle.

Golden Ear is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-08-2014   #632
DIYMA 500 Club
 
WestCo's Avatar
 
DIYMA Enthusiast
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 1,317


Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 74 WestCo will become famous soon enoughWestCo will become famous soon enoughWestCo will become famous soon enoughWestCo will become famous soon enoughWestCo will become famous soon enoughWestCo will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (25)



Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Ear View Post
What does a "dry" amp sound like? I have the JL HDs and that description would never have crossed my mind. Actually, I can't tell the amps apart from the PDXs I have in another vehicle.
Basically the sound from the amps doesn't sound analog. To my ears the music sounds a bit stifled.

I ran the pdx-5 amp from alpine it was ok for the money. It was not a night and day difference "upgrading" to the McIntosh amps, but there was a noticeable change in the mids and highs.

Was the Mac worth the 950$ I paid? Well it looked stunning and was enjoyable to listen to. But at the end of the day no, it was not worth the money.

I think the better deal for me was the Matt R modded class A biased C2k 4.0; I picked up from SoundJunkie on here. That thing smoked everything else I had ran in the past. The drivers do not sound stressed at high volumes, and the amp has the best mix of clarity and warmth I have found. The total cost was 1,100$ but it was significantly better than anything else I have ran in the past. The Lanzar Opti comes the closest, but even my Lanzar has about 200$ in mods.

I speak the truth because I care...
Pioneer ODR RS-D7xIII / RS-P90X; Modded Zapco C2k 4.0; Stock C2k 6.0; 2 - ID12; Illusion Audio C8; Scanspeak 2904-6000
WestCo is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-08-2014   #633
 
DIYMA Regular
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: South
Posts: 894

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 67 SilkySlim will become famous soon enoughSilkySlim will become famous soon enoughSilkySlim will become famous soon enoughSilkySlim will become famous soon enoughSilkySlim will become famous soon enoughSilkySlim will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (3)



Default

West co I'll be sending you a few more recommended mods for the Opti they really sound good!! I wish I could have known which ones to do on yours. They really open up the top and mid and tighten bass up. Not that it's bad to begin with but I just didn't want you to be a guinea pig. Yea wow impressive mods my wife just listened to the car tonight and said how much better it sounds. She said wow I haven't noticed that much detail on the strings in the cello and the plucking on the bass. (Former bad player in a band of course she would notice) I digress. It sounds incredible. Effortless. I love it when equipment disappears.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk
SilkySlim is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-08-2014   #634
DIYMA 500 Club
 
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,622

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0 Ultimateherts will become famous soon enoughUltimateherts will become famous soon enoughUltimateherts will become famous soon enoughUltimateherts will become famous soon enoughUltimateherts will become famous soon enoughUltimateherts will become famous soon enoughUltimateherts will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (10)



Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCo View Post
Basically the sound from the amps doesn't sound analog. To my ears the music sounds a bit stifled.

I ran the pdx-5 amp from alpine it was ok for the money. It was not a night and day difference "upgrading" to the McIntosh amps, but there was a noticeable change in the mids and highs.

To me the Arc Audio XXD amps sounded like this...
Ultimateherts is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-08-2014   #635
DIYMA 500 Club
 
cubdenno's Avatar
 
DIYMA Steel manipulator
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Illinois
Age: 46
Posts: 2,450

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 144 cubdenno will become famous soon enoughcubdenno will become famous soon enoughcubdenno will become famous soon enoughcubdenno will become famous soon enoughcubdenno will become famous soon enoughcubdenno will become famous soon enoughcubdenno will become famous soon enough

Send a message via ICQ to cubdenno

iTrader: (3)



Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

Quote:
Originally Posted by KENNEY View Post
Talk to some sound engineers, I am sure they would be more than happy to debate that with you.
Live about 10 miles from one. His advice to me early steered me away from high dollar brands because there was zero measurable benefit except the lightening of my wallet. Since then, I have spoken with enough other experts and their advice has pretty much matched the early advice from the member here.

Oh sure there are always going to be people who buy into marketing as gospel. People who want to believe that the money they just spent is justifiable. That is totally fine. No matter the evidence to the contrary, they won't believe it. It's their money. Theirs to spend.

I recognize that no amount of threads from people on here will ever convince everybody that amps are basically indistinguishable in blind testing. We all want to believe that we can hear things between the designs. Truth of the matter is, the speaker you choose has exponentially greater chances of altering the sound than an amp.

I really miss the days this site dealt within the realm of science more than belief in marketing.

It is very easy to conflate cause and effect that are unrelated in audio design. In fact, the entire audiophile industry is based upon this ease of fallacy.

"Heck yeah you can spend more to get the same sound."
cubdenno is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-08-2014   #636
DIYMA 500 Club
 
DIYMA Loyalist
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: CA
Posts: 2,787

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 117 TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to all


iTrader: (1)



Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

^ same here. In talking to Gary Summers, someone asked him why he chose the pdx's. He said he couldn't here a difference between the pdx's and any other high end amp. He said he didn't know the engineering behind them, but audibly there wasn't anything there to pick them apart.

98 Dodge Neon Meca Extreme Class Build
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...-timer-sq.html
TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-08-2014   #637
DIYMA 500 Club
 
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: LA
Posts: 2,828

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 0 cajunner has a reputation beyond reputecajunner has a reputation beyond reputecajunner has a reputation beyond reputecajunner has a reputation beyond reputecajunner has a reputation beyond reputecajunner has a reputation beyond reputecajunner has a reputation beyond reputecajunner has a reputation beyond reputecajunner has a reputation beyond reputecajunner has a reputation beyond reputecajunner has a reputation beyond repute


iTrader: (3)



Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

so a valid question, is whether Gary Summers has tin ears, or you have an ability that 99.99% of the general public doesn't?

which is more true, haha...
cajunner is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-08-2014   #638
DIYMA 500 Club
 
papasin's Avatar
 
Richard
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
Posts: 2,964

Thanks: 13
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 112 papasin has a spectacular aura aboutpapasin has a spectacular aura aboutpapasin has a spectacular aura aboutpapasin has a spectacular aura aboutpapasin has a spectacular aura aboutpapasin has a spectacular aura aboutpapasin has a spectacular aura aboutpapasin has a spectacular aura aboutpapasin has a spectacular aura about


iTrader: (39)



Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

Quote:
Originally Posted by cajunner View Post
so a valid question, is whether Gary Summers has tin ears, or you have an ability that 99.99% of the general public doesn't?

which is more true, haha...
Just for reference to those who may not know Gary... (pretty modest guy)

Gary Summers - IMDb

papasin is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-08-2014   #639
DIYMA 500 Club
Upgrade Your Membership!
 
Victor_inox's Avatar
 
Victory Sonics
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 8,504

12V Company:
Victory Sonics
Position:
Owner

Thanks: 137
Thanked 96 Times in 84 Posts
Rep Power: 155 Victor_inox is a jewel in the roughVictor_inox is a jewel in the roughVictor_inox is a jewel in the roughVictor_inox is a jewel in the roughVictor_inox is a jewel in the roughVictor_inox is a jewel in the roughVictor_inox is a jewel in the roughVictor_inox is a jewel in the roughVictor_inox is a jewel in the roughVictor_inox is a jewel in the roughVictor_inox is a jewel in the rough


iTrader: (105)



Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

Quote:
Originally Posted by TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL View Post
^ same here. In talking to Gary Summers, someone asked him why he chose the pdx's. He said he couldn't here a difference between the pdx's and any other high end amp. He said he didn't know the engineering behind them, but audibly there wasn't anything there to pick them apart.
Problem of today`s world, everyone reading too many online reviews instead of experiencing things themselves.

Gary Summers said said PDX sounds the same as what?
I bet in reality he listened to a couple amps with completely different setup and tuning. don`t present anyone experience as your own.
I have few dozens of amps in my shop right now, different models of the same brand sounds different.
You know why some people jumping from one amp to another?
they remember their state of mind and compare it to present state of mind, they don`t remember what they heard 20 seconds ago, ONly their take at the moment of listening. one amp can sound better yesterday than today.
another sounds better today but was lifeless and dry 20 minutes ago.
Only small percentage of trained professionals knows what listen for differences.

It seems like most people don't care to actually understand reality.

Last edited by Victor_inox; 04-08-2014 at 11:49 PM..
Victor_inox is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-08-2014   #640
DIYMA 500 Club
 
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: LA
Posts: 2,828

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 0 cajunner has a reputation beyond reputecajunner has a reputation beyond reputecajunner has a reputation beyond reputecajunner has a reputation beyond reputecajunner has a reputation beyond reputecajunner has a reputation beyond reputecajunner has a reputation beyond reputecajunner has a reputation beyond reputecajunner has a reputation beyond reputecajunner has a reputation beyond reputecajunner has a reputation beyond repute


iTrader: (3)



Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

Quote:
Originally Posted by papasin View Post
Just for reference to those who may not know Gary... (pretty modest guy)

Gary Summers - IMDb
so, not a tin ear then...





I guess that just leaves the possibility that you have a hearing acuity like Babe Ruth had in visual acuity, that you can tell what song is playing when the actual level of the playback is 0 db going up to 5 db crest factor...


that amount of sound is probably hard to hear outside of your own body's digestive and circulatory ambient noise...

I don't believe I can even hear at 10 db, from all the industrial noise hazards I've subjected my body to in my many years of outside labor or shop environments.

In a severely quieted room, wearing very good full cup, closed-back headphones, if someone played me a song at a level amounting to 10 db, I probably wouldn't be able to make it out just from a background of mild tinnitus.

But that doesn't mean I can't do just as well as someone else, on ABX testing of say, 70 db baseline, when examining playback equipment!

I think an obviously challenged maxim of my own making, thus:

as you get older, your hearing becomes more acute, in the range that you can still hear


is probably not easily proved but it helps me believe I'm not handicapped when pitted against a golden ear type. I can easily hear differences in playback from various amplifiers, and it doesn't mean I didn't do a scientifically valid test, either. It means even if it was proved to me that buying anything more expensive than Walmart Dual branded amps is a lesson in vanity, I still wouldn't be running Dual amps because I have a vested interest in supporting my own biased opinions. I cannot accept that over my many years of listening to various amplifiers, the differences are either inaudible or not there at all.

I won't accept it, haha...
cajunner is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-09-2014   #641
DIYMA 500 Club
 
quickaudi07's Avatar
 
DIYMA Loyalist
Join Date: May 2010
Location: IL
Posts: 2,974

Thanks: 23
Thanked 30 Times in 24 Posts
Rep Power: 122 quickaudi07 is a jewel in the roughquickaudi07 is a jewel in the roughquickaudi07 is a jewel in the roughquickaudi07 is a jewel in the roughquickaudi07 is a jewel in the roughquickaudi07 is a jewel in the roughquickaudi07 is a jewel in the roughquickaudi07 is a jewel in the roughquickaudi07 is a jewel in the roughquickaudi07 is a jewel in the roughquickaudi07 is a jewel in the rough


iTrader: (21)



Default

I think at the end of the day people want what's hot out there and what's the best! In reality this car audio hobby isn't cheep as all of you know. When you start building a system you know ur budget will go over very few of us stick to one thing, and one thing only! As far as amps go, can we hear a difference I sure we can. Yes install and other stuff go along with it, but does an amp play a big factor??? He'll yea it does... tell Gary to install some of the cheep amps that we have on the market.... like boss lol says 100 w x4 ch... and than have him switch it to his pdx... I wonder if he could hear the difference. I don't know who Gary is, but I'm not only Gary will be able to tell the difference in sound quality but also the output and speaker control cheep amp vs sq or high end amp. End of story!

Why do we buy Mosconi, JL, Arc audio, PPI, and other great brands????
Simple we are going for quality, power, flexibility, so we could enjoy our music and be passionate about it.
Did I really need Mosconi amp???? Nope jl or alpine would have done the same. Would they do better??? I have no idea... have had any of them yet
It's a lie i had JL slash amps and I really enjoyed the. Why did I switch to Mosconi?? Because I wanted something different!



Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

2013 VW CC and as I said down low!

When You Think Your Done! Reality is..... is just the beginning
quickaudi07 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-09-2014   #642
DIYMA 500 Club
 
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: LA
Posts: 2,828

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 0 cajunner has a reputation beyond reputecajunner has a reputation beyond reputecajunner has a reputation beyond reputecajunner has a reputation beyond reputecajunner has a reputation beyond reputecajunner has a reputation beyond reputecajunner has a reputation beyond reputecajunner has a reputation beyond reputecajunner has a reputation beyond reputecajunner has a reputation beyond reputecajunner has a reputation beyond repute


iTrader: (3)



Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor_inox View Post
Problem of today`s world, everyone reading too many online reviews instead of experiencing things themselves.

Gary Summers said said PDX sounds the same as what?
I bet in reality he listened to a couple amps with completely different setup and tuning. don`t present anyone experience as your own.
I have few dozens of amps in my shop right now, different models of the same brand sounds different.
You know why some people jumping from one amp to another?
they remember their state of mind and compare it to present state of mind, they don`t remember what they heard 20 seconds ago, ONly their take at the moment of listening. one amp can sound better yesterday than today.
another sounds better today but was lifeless and dry 20 minutes ago.
Only small percentage of trained professionals knows what listen for differences.
back when I could hear, it was 1996 and I was a young, gullible person who walked into various shops and listened to many products on the boards there, and I heard many differences.


that's a historical fact.

whether or not those differences were able to pass a smell test, I don't know.


those people who sell product for a living, may have been part of the reason, or perhaps part of the blame.


we didn't have much in the way of measurements, and relied on manufacturer copy to sway us in whatever direction, we didn't have the internet. We had guys like Ken Pohlmann, or Gordon Holt, or Tom Nousaine, to read and what they did in their various test labs, was the best we were allowed.


you know how people griped when they never had a negative review of a product, that sort of thing?


maybe it's because there's not a lot of difference, haha... but no.

I can say that the guy running Pyle subs back in '90, didn't have the same capable system as the guy running Orion...

it was a lot of difference, too.

today, maybe the amps are so refined, it's only when you get a dud that you can single something out, but the history of car audio is that you used to have superlatives, you used to have everything else. Nowadays the industry is reversed, you have everything capable of greatness and the stand-out is the rare dud, it's a great time to be in audio but only if you don't need to prop up a psychological defense of spending too much time and money on a hobby that separates you from other parts of your life.
cajunner is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-09-2014   #643
DIYMA 500 Club
 
quickaudi07's Avatar
 
DIYMA Loyalist
Join Date: May 2010
Location: IL
Posts: 2,974

Thanks: 23
Thanked 30 Times in 24 Posts
Rep Power: 122 quickaudi07 is a jewel in the roughquickaudi07 is a jewel in the roughquickaudi07 is a jewel in the roughquickaudi07 is a jewel in the roughquickaudi07 is a jewel in the roughquickaudi07 is a jewel in the roughquickaudi07 is a jewel in the roughquickaudi07 is a jewel in the roughquickaudi07 is a jewel in the roughquickaudi07 is a jewel in the roughquickaudi07 is a jewel in the rough


iTrader: (21)



Default

^^^^^^^^^^^ I agree 110% some of us do it for living, some as a hobby like me. Life is to short! Enjoy till its fullest

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

2013 VW CC and as I said down low!

When You Think Your Done! Reality is..... is just the beginning
quickaudi07 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-09-2014   #644
DIYMA 500 Club
Upgrade Your Membership!
 
Victor_inox's Avatar
 
Victory Sonics
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 8,504

12V Company:
Victory Sonics
Position:
Owner

Thanks: 137
Thanked 96 Times in 84 Posts
Rep Power: 155 Victor_inox is a jewel in the roughVictor_inox is a jewel in the roughVictor_inox is a jewel in the roughVictor_inox is a jewel in the roughVictor_inox is a jewel in the roughVictor_inox is a jewel in the roughVictor_inox is a jewel in the roughVictor_inox is a jewel in the roughVictor_inox is a jewel in the roughVictor_inox is a jewel in the roughVictor_inox is a jewel in the rough


iTrader: (105)



Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

Quote:
Originally Posted by TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL View Post
^ same here. In talking to Gary Summers, someone asked him why he chose the pdx's. He said he couldn't here a difference between the pdx's and any other high end amp. He said he didn't know the engineering behind them, but audibly there wasn't anything there to pick them apart.
I`d like to see an evidence of this statement. Pro audio guy will never say anything like that unless he is joking. he can`t be deaf by definition.

It seems like most people don't care to actually understand reality.
Victor_inox is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-09-2014   #645
DIYMA 500 Club
Upgrade Your Membership!
 
Victor_inox's Avatar
 
Victory Sonics
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 8,504

12V Company:
Victory Sonics
Position:
Owner

Thanks: 137
Thanked 96 Times in 84 Posts
Rep Power: 155 Victor_inox is a jewel in the roughVictor_inox is a jewel in the roughVictor_inox is a jewel in the roughVictor_inox is a jewel in the roughVictor_inox is a jewel in the roughVictor_inox is a jewel in the roughVictor_inox is a jewel in the roughVictor_inox is a jewel in the roughVictor_inox is a jewel in the roughVictor_inox is a jewel in the roughVictor_inox is a jewel in the rough


iTrader: (105)



Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

Quote:
Originally Posted by quickaudi07 View Post
^^^^^^^^^^^ I agree 110% some of us do it for living, some as a hobby like me. Life is to short! Enjoy till its fullest

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
Enjoy the music not equipment producing it.

I have many friend playing music for living, classical, jazz, etc....
best musicians don`t care what equipment sound engineer use, they like the sound or they don`t.

It seems like most people don't care to actually understand reality.
Victor_inox is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-09-2014   #646
Upgrade Your Membership!
 
jtaudioacc's Avatar
 
jtaudioacc
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Cerritos, Ca.
Age: 48
Posts: 1,873

12V Company:
JT Audio & Accessories
Position:
Owner/Installer/Janitor

Thanks: 2
Thanked 6 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 111 jtaudioacc has a spectacular aura aboutjtaudioacc has a spectacular aura aboutjtaudioacc has a spectacular aura aboutjtaudioacc has a spectacular aura aboutjtaudioacc has a spectacular aura aboutjtaudioacc has a spectacular aura aboutjtaudioacc has a spectacular aura aboutjtaudioacc has a spectacular aura aboutjtaudioacc has a spectacular aura aboutjtaudioacc has a spectacular aura about


iTrader: (28)



Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

I'm pretty sure Gary has said that the new PDX were a good improvement over the old. Both in his own system. I'm not sure that's saying much tho. Isn't a bit accepted that they weren't that great? lol

Oh and he's also said that Skywalker ranch studio B is better than A although they are identical in setup.

I was originally an Orion nutthugger back when I started in the 80's. Orion definitely owned Pyle. LOL

In my current car, I've had Zapco C2K-Tru Billet highly modified-Genesis Series III-now my new Focal/ORCA class Deez Nuts amps. I'm happier than ever with my current amp choice SQ and Performance.

Oh, and my early 90's Jensen amp filled in great as my Tru and Genesis amps were being repaired.

jtaudioacc is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-09-2014   #647
DIYMA 500 Club
 
DIYMA Loyalist
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: CA
Posts: 2,787

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 117 TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to all


iTrader: (1)



Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtaudioacc View Post
I'm pretty sure Gary has said that the new PDX were a good improvement over the old. Both in his own system. I'm not sure that's saying much tho. Isn't a bit accepted that they weren't that great? lol

Oh and he's also said that Skywalker ranch studio B is better than A although they are identical in setup.

I was originally an Orion nutthugger back when I started in the 80's. Orion definitely owned Pyle. LOL

In my current car, I've had Zapco C2K-Tru Billet highly modified-Genesis Series III-now my new Focal/ORCA class Deez Nuts amps. I'm happier than ever with my current amp choice SQ and Performance.

Oh, and my early 90's Jensen amp filled in great as my Tru and Genesis amps were being repaired.
JT, his comments were directed to someone who asked why he didn't use something with a high class a bias, Jon's modified Genesis amps were pointed out as an example. It was at my first gtg. Gary's response was that he had listened to other amps like that before deciding on the PDX's, and he said he couldn't hear a difference between the PDX's and the others he had listed to. His comments on his upgrade to the newer PDX's made it seem like noise floor was what the improvement between the first PDX's and second PDX's was, which is a well known problem for the first gens.

This was in the same conversation that he recommended finding a good set of speakers to get a reference, and was telling use specifically to look for B&W speakers, even if you could find them used, especially if you could find some Diamonds.

98 Dodge Neon Meca Extreme Class Build
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...-timer-sq.html
TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-09-2014   #648
Moderator
 
Bikinpunk
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: North Alabama
Age: 34
Posts: 17,181

Thanks: 64
Thanked 114 Times in 63 Posts
Rep Power: 25982 ErinH has a reputation beyond reputeErinH has a reputation beyond reputeErinH has a reputation beyond reputeErinH has a reputation beyond reputeErinH has a reputation beyond reputeErinH has a reputation beyond reputeErinH has a reputation beyond reputeErinH has a reputation beyond reputeErinH has a reputation beyond reputeErinH has a reputation beyond reputeErinH has a reputation beyond repute

Send a message via AIM to ErinH

iTrader: (94)



Default HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

I'll be honest and this may possibly come off rude but so be it...

I find threads like this, where people are arguing subjective evaluations with no factual proof or discussion in to their evaluation, funny because I see people posting about hearing the differences in this or that. And how component X made their system soooo much better. I'd think they have golden ears.

Then I hear their system. Then I quit paying attention to anything they say.

My advice: research. If you can afford it and it appeals to you then buy it. But don't lose sleep over you possibly not benefiting from an amp because some dude on the internet who you don't know and who no one can provide feedback on told you sounds better than what you have. Your install and tune are more important by and large than sonic differences from modern amps of the same power. At least up front. If you feel you've reached the pinnacle of audio then by all means look in to an amp to help you along the way. I just wouldn't make it my priority starting out.

Of course, I'm just some dude on the net, too. So feel free to ignore me as well.

-- SQ is great, but sometimes nostalgia is greater. --


Follow my blog:
http://medleysmusings.com/

Time Delay Calculator:
http://tracerite.com/calc.html

My 2006 Honda Civic LX Sedan Build Log
ErinH is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-09-2014   #649
DIYMA 500 Club
 
DIYMA Loyalist
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: CA
Posts: 2,787

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 117 TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to allTOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is a name known to all


iTrader: (1)



Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

^ still think this forum needs a like button.

98 Dodge Neon Meca Extreme Class Build
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...-timer-sq.html
TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-09-2014   #650
DIYMA 500 Club
 
DIYMA Regular
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 641

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 118 FG79 will become famous soon enoughFG79 will become famous soon enoughFG79 will become famous soon enoughFG79 will become famous soon enoughFG79 will become famous soon enoughFG79 will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (0)



Default Re: HIGHER END AMP SQ IS A MYTH

Quote:
Originally Posted by bikinpunk View Post
I'll be honest and this may possibly come off rude but so be it...

I find threads like this, where people are arguing subjective evaluations with no factual proof or discussion in to their evaluation, funny because I see people posting about hearing the differences in this or that. And how component X made their system soooo much better. I'd think they have golden ears.

Then I hear their system. Then I quit paying attention to anything they say.

Of course, I'm just some dude on the net, too. So feel free to ignore me as well.
I think the very best advice I can give anyone is to find someone whose taste most resembles yours, and just follow their advice.

I have my crew so I never have to worry about anything. It's a great feeling.

If I had to rely on all the white papers, forum threads in the world I'd be completely lost.

One thing I've found very perplexing is hearing two different people assign opposite objective observations on the same gear. For example back in the day hearing somebody compare a Morel to a Focal. The general gist is/was that Morel was warmer than Focal. Whether you preferred that was irrelevant....the issue should be the actual sound.

Anyways, I'd hear somebody say the exact opposite in a totally different thread and it was very head scratching. I have seen numerous versions of this over the years.

We may never agree on taste, but we should agree on tonal balance observations. Either that or somebody is completely misusing subjective terms.
FG79 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Location
Where you live
First name
Last name
Do you work in the 12 Volt industry?
Do you work in the 12 Volt industry?
Youtube Channel
Enter Your Youtube Username, And It will Be Linked To In Your Posts!
12V Industry - Company Name
Your company name.
12V Industry - Your Position
Your position in your company.

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Ad Management by RedTyger

Home | User CP | Members List | New Posts | ITrader | Faq | Post Spy