SQ really is subjective. - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-03-2013   #1
DIYMA 500 Club
 
DIYMA Enthusiast
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Norwalk, CA
Posts: 1,680

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 122 qwertydude will become famous soon enoughqwertydude will become famous soon enoughqwertydude will become famous soon enoughqwertydude will become famous soon enoughqwertydude will become famous soon enoughqwertydude will become famous soon enoughqwertydude will become famous soon enoughqwertydude will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (0)



Default SQ really is subjective.

I think just like all the hifi nonsense like line conditioners, speaker wire elevators, and green marker on CD rims can't stand up to real double blind tests, it seems musical instruments suffer from the same biases.

Double-Blind Violin Test: Can You Pick The Strad? : Deceptive Cadence : NPR

I picked the right one but have to say it sounded close but I remember hearing recordings of Stradivarii violin solos compared to other ones and distinctly remember that they have more muted lows so to me I could tell. But only just so.
qwertydude is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-03-2013   #2
 
DIYMA Novice
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: St. Joe, MI
Posts: 279

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 133 SHOToonz is a name known to allSHOToonz is a name known to allSHOToonz is a name known to allSHOToonz is a name known to allSHOToonz is a name known to allSHOToonz is a name known to allSHOToonz is a name known to allSHOToonz is a name known to allSHOToonz is a name known to allSHOToonz is a name known to allSHOToonz is a name known to all

Send a message via AIM to SHOToonz

iTrader: (1)



Default Re: SQ really is subjective.

I agree, inasmuch as not everyone's hearing is the same. Take me for example. I have significant hearing loss in both ears thanks to repeated exposure to guns, cannons and explosives. To compound that, my right ear's more gone than my left. Therefore a system set flat sounds like a dog fart to me. Therefore I set up a system that sounds good to me, despite having the loudness on and the EQ on my head unit heavily tweaked.

But that's just me...
SHOToonz is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-04-2013   #3
Upgrade Your Membership!
 
Chief of Information
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 4,233

12V Company:
Audiofrog Inc.
Position:
President

Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Rep Power: 553 Andy Wehmeyer has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Wehmeyer has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Wehmeyer has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Wehmeyer has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Wehmeyer has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Wehmeyer has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Wehmeyer has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Wehmeyer has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Wehmeyer has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Wehmeyer has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Wehmeyer has a reputation beyond repute


iTrader: (0)



Default Re: SQ really is subjective.

Google Sean Olive at Harman and check out his blog for more scientific information regarding listener preference. The gist is that the preferences of beginning listeners are all over the map, but as listeners become more experienced, their preferences tend to converge on a very specific set of criteria that confirms the science of making greta sounding speakers and refutes the suggestion that all listeners prefer something different and that speakers are like musical instruments.

Making music is art. Reproducing it is science.

However...some recordings suck and the quality of the listening experience can be dramatically enhanced by some significant coloration in the playback system (this is my postulate, but I'm not a scientist).
Andy Wehmeyer is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-04-2013   #4
DIYMA 500 Club
 
quietfly's Avatar
 
DIYMA Enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Mahwah NJ
Posts: 1,300

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 91 quietfly will become famous soon enoughquietfly will become famous soon enoughquietfly will become famous soon enoughquietfly will become famous soon enoughquietfly will become famous soon enoughquietfly will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (4)



Default Re: SQ really is subjective.

I find Loudness also can greatly affect the perception of SQ. A car is such a poor vehicle (pun intended) for critical listening.
quietfly is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-04-2013   #5
DIYMA 500 Club
 
Hillbilly SQ's Avatar
 
Blue Collar Audiophile
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Arkansas
Age: 34
Posts: 8,077

12V Company:
Complacent Audio
Position:
Incoherent rambler

Thanks: 2
Thanked 50 Times in 43 Posts
Rep Power: 251 Hillbilly SQ has a reputation beyond reputeHillbilly SQ has a reputation beyond reputeHillbilly SQ has a reputation beyond reputeHillbilly SQ has a reputation beyond reputeHillbilly SQ has a reputation beyond reputeHillbilly SQ has a reputation beyond reputeHillbilly SQ has a reputation beyond reputeHillbilly SQ has a reputation beyond reputeHillbilly SQ has a reputation beyond reputeHillbilly SQ has a reputation beyond reputeHillbilly SQ has a reputation beyond repute


iTrader: (16)



Default Re: SQ really is subjective.

When I dail a system in it's catered for my hearing loss and my right ear is a lot weaker than my left. It's your typical equal loudness curve with a little more bite on the tippy top than a lot of people usually prefer. To be honest a good sounding automobile system is made by making the best out of a bad situation. Combine a bunch of highly reflective surfaces in close proximity with each other with locations that will always be a compromise in one way or another and you have a situation where a speaker is only as good as the room you put it in. NPDang couldn't have said it better.

'14 Grand Cherokee Limited, OEM U-Connect 8.4a, JL Fix 82, c-dsp 6x8, Arc xdi1200.6v2, Soundstream tn1.1200d, stock rears controlled properly by minidsp 2x4 with rear fill plug-in, ID15v3, SB Acoustics SB17NRXC35-4, Seas Neo Aluminum...Rearfill done properly is a helluva drug!
Hillbilly SQ is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-04-2013   #6
 
pjhabit's Avatar
 
DIYMA freshman
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: in my tree
Posts: 249

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 112 pjhabit will become famous soon enoughpjhabit will become famous soon enoughpjhabit will become famous soon enoughpjhabit will become famous soon enoughpjhabit will become famous soon enoughpjhabit will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (2)



Default Re: SQ really is subjective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Wehmeyer View Post
Google Sean Olive at Harman and check out his blog for more scientific information regarding listener preference. The gist is that the preferences of beginning listeners are all over the map, but as listeners become more experienced, their preferences tend to converge on a very specific set of criteria that confirms the science of making greta sounding speakers and refutes the suggestion that all listeners prefer something different and that speakers are like musical instruments.

Making music is art. Reproducing it is science.

However...some recordings suck and the quality of the listening experience can be dramatically enhanced by some significant coloration in the playback system (this is my postulate, but I'm not a scientist).
That reminds me of THIS article that suggests it's a learned behavior....well, that or it affirms that youth is wasted on the young


//Alpine 9887 ¤ CDT BCK-26A tweets ¤ CDT ES-6 mids ¤ JL 450/4v2 ¤ JL 500/1v2 ¤ JL 12W6v2
pjhabit is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-04-2013   #7
DIYMA 500 Club
 
DIYMA Enthusiast
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Norwalk, CA
Posts: 1,680

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 122 qwertydude will become famous soon enoughqwertydude will become famous soon enoughqwertydude will become famous soon enoughqwertydude will become famous soon enoughqwertydude will become famous soon enoughqwertydude will become famous soon enoughqwertydude will become famous soon enoughqwertydude will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (0)



Default Re: SQ really is subjective.

That article already confirms what I knew people's preference is entirely psychological.

Since I learned early on what dynamic range, frequency response, and what real instruments sound like I knew what to tune for.

And real instruments sound nothing like what vinyl sounds like or what compressed MP3 sounds like. Try listening to classical on vinyl and all the hiss clicks and pops are just too much a distraction during the quieter lulls. That's why I hold disdain equally for vinyl and tube amp adherents when they claim that those technologies were real "sound quality"

I much prefer CD quality or high bit rate MP3 which is for all intents and purposes indistinguishable. I could also say FLAC but it's of such limited use, mainly for archiving, because for mp3 players it just takes up too much space.

My own version of sound quality is the ability to reproduce the sound exactly as it's heard when listening live. So even then it's hard to say because this rules out any amplified music such as electric guitars or microphones because then they'll have coloration from the speakers or amps they're using.
qwertydude is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-04-2013   #8
DIYMA 500 Club
 
brett's Avatar
 
DIYMA Regular
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: phoenix, az
Posts: 755

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 157 brett will become famous soon enoughbrett will become famous soon enoughbrett will become famous soon enoughbrett will become famous soon enoughbrett will become famous soon enoughbrett will become famous soon enough

Send a message via AIM to brett

iTrader: (12)



Default Re: SQ really is subjective.

i've found something similar to what andy said for myself. my sq tastes haven't changed, so much as they've evolved. my journey started as a young dude back in the 80's listening to classic vinyl on my dad's home system through altec lansing stonehenge speakers. i always thought it sounded great but my ears were always wanting a little brighter sound. then in my teens i got my first home stereo consisting of mtx 4way tower speakers. even then i wanted to turn the highs up though it had horns. then in high school i got into car audio. i, again, loaded the car up with drivers and at one point had at least 3 sets of tweeters in one car! so time went by, more installs came and went. i also became a musician and learned to play guitar and drums. in this time playing insanely loud music, loud intruments and going to many loud shows, im sure my hearing got damaged. with my current system i find myself dialing the highs down a little bit, but probably not as much as i know they should be. at this point, with my experience listening and reading and more listening, i know i should have less but i think im just compensating for potential hearing loss.

this is just my personal story, but im sure others have their own. but like andy said, in the last few years i've had more of an understanding of what things should sound like and i think the best way to find that audible least common denominator is to just be patient. listen, listen, listen to as many cars and systems as possible. expand your understanding of what sq could mean to you because for me it has definitely evolved.

hope that helps

changes coming....
brett is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-04-2013   #9
 
RNBRAD's Avatar
 
DIYMA Regular
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Age: 45
Posts: 895

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 66 RNBRAD will become famous soon enoughRNBRAD will become famous soon enoughRNBRAD will become famous soon enoughRNBRAD will become famous soon enoughRNBRAD will become famous soon enoughRNBRAD will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (0)



Default Re: SQ really is subjective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by qwertydude View Post
That article already confirms what I knew people's preference is entirely psychological.

Since I learned early on what dynamic range, frequency response, and what real instruments sound like I knew what to tune for.

And real instruments sound nothing like what vinyl sounds like or what compressed MP3 sounds like. Try listening to classical on vinyl and all the hiss clicks and pops are just too much a distraction during the quieter lulls. That's why I hold disdain equally for vinyl and tube amp adherents when they claim that those technologies were real "sound quality"

I much prefer CD quality or high bit rate MP3 which is for all intents and purposes indistinguishable. I could also say FLAC but it's of such limited use, mainly for archiving, because for mp3 players it just takes up too much space.

My own version of sound quality is the ability to reproduce the sound exactly as it's heard when listening live. So even then it's hard to say because this rules out any amplified music such as electric guitars or microphones because then they'll have coloration from the speakers or amps they're using.
Exactly what is is, personal preference, just like anything else. The music we like and how we like it is a part of our socialization as well as genetics. So sound quality to you and SQ to me is an entirely different definition. That's why we argue so much about it and always will.

As far as vinyl goes, it's like anything else. Use good vinyl from good manufacturers that's not recycled and company's that use better release agents that don't adhere as much to the new vinyl. Also keep it clean and handle with rubber gloves, buy a box (50ct 5 dollars) use one each time, dont need both, prevents prints and static. No I'm not kidding!! Your vinyl will sound much better, pops clicks gone. Oh and invest in a Rockport, preferably a Sirius System III, IV, or V. The price we pay for SQ, and whatever that term means to you.

You say you like it live? What venue? Outdoor (bandshell or stand), Opera/concert hall (numerous sizes, stadium (open or closed dome?)club, dance hall, studio, they all sound different, so saying I like it live brings on a whole different level of sound characteristics. Depends where your playing, and btw which venue has the best SQ? I'm sure we could devote not just a thread but an entire site on that one.

System 1 of 3: Amptech Alt, Stealth reg, Alpine IVA-C800, DVA-5205, CHA-S604, MB-Quart Premium-316, Mcintosh MCC443m, MCC427, Audio Control DQXS, Epi, ESP-2, Kicker XPL 12's.
RNBRAD is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-04-2013   #10
DIYMA 500 Club
 
Hillbilly SQ's Avatar
 
Blue Collar Audiophile
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Arkansas
Age: 34
Posts: 8,077

12V Company:
Complacent Audio
Position:
Incoherent rambler

Thanks: 2
Thanked 50 Times in 43 Posts
Rep Power: 251 Hillbilly SQ has a reputation beyond reputeHillbilly SQ has a reputation beyond reputeHillbilly SQ has a reputation beyond reputeHillbilly SQ has a reputation beyond reputeHillbilly SQ has a reputation beyond reputeHillbilly SQ has a reputation beyond reputeHillbilly SQ has a reputation beyond reputeHillbilly SQ has a reputation beyond reputeHillbilly SQ has a reputation beyond reputeHillbilly SQ has a reputation beyond reputeHillbilly SQ has a reputation beyond repute


iTrader: (16)



Default Re: SQ really is subjective.

LOL I personally HATE live recordings for the most part. There are a couple exceptions but that's it. Guess all the clapping and other crap annoys me too much.

'14 Grand Cherokee Limited, OEM U-Connect 8.4a, JL Fix 82, c-dsp 6x8, Arc xdi1200.6v2, Soundstream tn1.1200d, stock rears controlled properly by minidsp 2x4 with rear fill plug-in, ID15v3, SB Acoustics SB17NRXC35-4, Seas Neo Aluminum...Rearfill done properly is a helluva drug!
Hillbilly SQ is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to Hillbilly SQ For This Useful Post:
MrGreen83 (5 Days Ago)
Old 01-04-2013   #11
DIYMA 500 Club
 
MarkZ's Avatar
 
DIYMA Addict
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ..........................................
Posts: 6,850

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 216 MarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really niceMarkZ is just really nice


iTrader: (4)



Default Re: SQ really is subjective.

Some live recordings are done directly through the board though.

btw I'm not totally convinced that the convergence Sean Olive is talking about is entirely learned. Our sensory systems develop according to the environment. If you alter what "natural stimuli" are, you also alter sensory perception and performance later in life. There's clinical evidence of this, and also these experiments have been done in animal models too (one group won a Nobel Prize for this in the 80s). We all experience more or less the same sensory stimuli during development, which explains why certain things work the way they do in all of us. So, the whole idea that the preferred spectral content of music, for example, is similar among people may be due (at least in part) to how well music with those properties mimic natural stimuli, rather than our overt attempt to try to conform to some standard that we're taught.

Quote:
Originally Posted by subwoofery
What I wanted to say is that amps ... sound the same.
MarkZ is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-05-2013   #12
 
DIYMA freshman
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Philippines
Posts: 226

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 99 co_leonard will become famous soon enoughco_leonard will become famous soon enoughco_leonard will become famous soon enoughco_leonard will become famous soon enoughco_leonard will become famous soon enoughco_leonard will become famous soon enough

Send a message via Yahoo to co_leonard

iTrader: (0)



Default Re: SQ really is subjective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cajunner View Post
might as well put the link up for Andy, who may not be able to do so on account of some policy or whatnot at Harman...

Audio Musings by Sean Olive: Part 1- Do Untrained Listeners Prefer the Same Loudspeakers as Trained Listeners?


maybe this one is better:

Audio Musings by Sean Olive: Part 3 - Relationship between Loudspeaker Measurements and Listener Preferences
Here's the actual article: http://www.aes.org/tmpFiles/elib/20130105/12206.pdf

Very good read!

2007 Honda Civic / Pioneer DEX-P99RS / Seas Excel Millenium T25CF002 Tweeters / Seas Excel W12CY001 Midrange / Dominations CFS4 midbass / Sundown Z15 sub / Sands M475 front-stage amps / Sands M1000 subwoofer amp / Tchernov Original Balanced RCA cables / Team DSD
co_leonard is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-05-2013   #13
Upgrade Your Membership!
 
Chief of Information
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 4,233

12V Company:
Audiofrog Inc.
Position:
President

Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Rep Power: 553 Andy Wehmeyer has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Wehmeyer has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Wehmeyer has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Wehmeyer has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Wehmeyer has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Wehmeyer has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Wehmeyer has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Wehmeyer has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Wehmeyer has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Wehmeyer has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Wehmeyer has a reputation beyond repute


iTrader: (0)



Default Re: SQ really is subjective.

My experiiences in doing demonstration of great sounding audio for lots of different people--experienced critical listeners and neophytes is that there is a certain sound that gets a "Wow, that's awesome" from nearly everyone. Some deviations from that certain sound are more objectionable than others and sometimes people prefer some of the deviations. More or less bass is one of them. More or less high frequency is another. However, the overall shape of the response, has to be maintained within some limits in order to get the "wow". I've posted that response here many times.

My method in arriving at this wasn't the same kind of science that Sean does--it wasn't a controlled experiment, it's been 30 years of building systems and products and listening carefully to what people say. In my experience, the difference between a "trained" and "untrained" listener has nothing to do with hearing acuity or even an understanding of system building, woofers, tweeters, crossovers, equalization or what have you. The "training" is in being able to explain to the person doing the survey WHAT you don't like. It's the job of the salesperson or installer to be the translator and a good one listens to what you mean and not necessarily what you say.

Years ago when I was an installer, we had a customer who came in for a pretty good system. I think we installed a couple of amplifiers, a sub and 4 speakers. He loved it. He left. A week later he came back and said it wasn't loud enough. We added amplifiers and another sub. He loved it again. He came back a week later and said, "It still isn't loud enough". We doubled the speakers in the front, doubled the power again, added two more subs. He loved it a third time. He came back a week later and said, it's better but still not quite loud enough. We were out of space in the car to add more and the thing was ridiculously loud.

My boss (really smart guy who is now no longer in the industry because he teaches music at a local university) went out to the the car and asked the guy to play something at the level he usually listens. The volume control was 1/4 of the way up. Normal listening level. Hmmm...WTF? I go out to the car and jump in the back seat. My boss asks the guy to play a song that he thinks is a good example of what's missing. He puts on some vocal track and says, "See, whe she sings that note, it isn't loud enough and when the bass player plays that part of the music, it isn't loud enough."

We took out half the power in the car and traded in the amplifiers for a pair of Audio Control EQTs and spent the rest the day in the car with an RTA. The next day, the guy came to pick up the car, listened and said, "That's exactly what I wanted".

This taught me to listen MUCH more carefully to what people MEAN and to do some additional investigation when necessary. The disconnect was that the customer's ability to articulate his desires using words we understood wasn't well developed--he didn't speak audiophile--but it had nothing to do with his ears. My job as a product manager is to TRANSLATE, which means I have to be the expert. The job of a salesman or an installer is also to TRANSLATE.

What Sean does is another kind of translation. He performs carefully controlled experiments in order to be able to express the results in another language--the language of science, which has its own rules and constraints--the most important being repeatability. Sometimes that means limiting the words people use to describe the experience and for that, training is required. You can read about the listener training program at Harman online. I don't know where it is, but just Google "Harman Listener Training".
Andy Wehmeyer is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-05-2013   #14
 
RNBRAD's Avatar
 
DIYMA Regular
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Age: 45
Posts: 895

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 66 RNBRAD will become famous soon enoughRNBRAD will become famous soon enoughRNBRAD will become famous soon enoughRNBRAD will become famous soon enoughRNBRAD will become famous soon enoughRNBRAD will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (0)



Default Re: SQ really is subjective.

I think a taught standard should conform to our natural experiences (in a perfect world of course). Seems like it did pretty good tho comparing trained to untrained listeners in Part 1. I think once we understand there is a slight difference in all of us, were better to understand other points of view. Even identical siamese twins, the closest production of the same individual that we know, still experience things differently and have different personality & tastes. Anyone ever thought about why that is? Usually the argument is nature versus nurture. Nature and nurture for siamese twins is about as close as it can get.

System 1 of 3: Amptech Alt, Stealth reg, Alpine IVA-C800, DVA-5205, CHA-S604, MB-Quart Premium-316, Mcintosh MCC443m, MCC427, Audio Control DQXS, Epi, ESP-2, Kicker XPL 12's.
RNBRAD is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-31-2013   #15
 
fhlh002's Avatar
 
DIYMA freshman
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Houston
Age: 45
Posts: 26

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 79 fhlh002 will become famous soon enoughfhlh002 will become famous soon enoughfhlh002 will become famous soon enoughfhlh002 will become famous soon enoughfhlh002 will become famous soon enoughfhlh002 will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (3)



Default Re: SQ really is subjective.

and all this time I thought SQ was about the brands you used....

Truck-'00 Dodge Ram CTD 4x4 -DEH80PRS - HiFonics ZXi60.4 + 1K - TS-D1720C -RE SRX12(some changes coming real soon)
Daily- '14 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit EcoDiesel - Factory H/K
fhlh002 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-29-2013   #16
 
DIYMA freshman
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: el paso
Posts: 178

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 55 file audio will become famous soon enoughfile audio will become famous soon enoughfile audio will become famous soon enoughfile audio will become famous soon enoughfile audio will become famous soon enoughfile audio will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (0)



Default Re: SQ really is subjective.

SO what are the must do things to get sq.? turn off head unit loudness function ,, whats more?,,, Im trying to get quality but I WANT TO learn new things about sq.

Focal KRX3, Helix amp on stand by, mcIntosh mc440 & jl audio 750 hd amps helix p dsp. Idmax12 sealed. sony avx601bt double din.excuse my english its not my native lenguaje
file audio is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-29-2013   #17
 
DIYMA freshman
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Arlington heights, il
Posts: 117

Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 80 TheScottishBear will become famous soon enoughTheScottishBear will become famous soon enoughTheScottishBear will become famous soon enoughTheScottishBear will become famous soon enoughTheScottishBear will become famous soon enoughTheScottishBear will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (1)



Default Re: SQ really is subjective.

It's an interesting subject. I was never compelled to pursue anything sq with my system's prior iterations. Then I picked up a pair of ID horns. Right after installing them with minimal eq (7 band) I could see something was different. After getting a 30 band eq and tuning them towards my own personal preferences I was picking up massive amounts of detail on very familiar passages. The dynamics of some live music brought a huge smile to my face when I leaned back and closed my eyes. I think that was the time when I attempted to listen critically to my stereo. As I did I could see flaws that were either ignored or didn't notice until now. I cursed myself at the realization. lol Ignorance really is bliss. My time as a bass head was over. It is taking a fair amount of my will not to rip my wall out immediately and go to an IB setup. I swore to keep it in until the demo/show season is over this fall but every tweak I make weakens my resolve.
The most interesting thing is that I have found some serious flaws with my stereo and that awareness leads to a near state of panic. I have this weird sense of abominable will that is driving me to make my stereo better now. I've never felt such drive with a hobby before...like ever.
The only thing I am saving in the rebuild is the horns, 30 band eq and my batteries. Amps, subs, midbass, HU; are all getting replaced. It feels like the best way to go forward is to start back at the beginning. This is just some ramblings of a 35 yr. old bass head turned sq convert. I still would like to try 2 21" IB so maybe it's not completely out of my system yet. lol

2009 BMW 550i
P99rs/iPad mini
ES mini horns/12" midbass 18" Peavey Subs/Ampere Audio
TheScottishBear is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-29-2013   #18
 
DIYMA freshman
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: el paso
Posts: 178

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 55 file audio will become famous soon enoughfile audio will become famous soon enoughfile audio will become famous soon enoughfile audio will become famous soon enoughfile audio will become famous soon enoughfile audio will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (0)



Default Re: SQ really is subjective.

[QUOTE=TheScottishBear;1854098]It's an interesting subject. I was never compelled to pursue anything sq with my system's prior iterations. Then I picked up a pair of ID horns. Right after installing them with minimal eq (7 band) I could see something was different. After getting a 30 band eq and tuning them towards my own personal preferences I was picking up massive amounts of detail on very familiar passages. The dynamics of some live music brought a huge smile to my face when I leaned back and closed my eyes. I think that was the time when I attempted to listen critically to my stereo. As I did I could see flaws that were either ignored or didn't notice until now. I cursed myself at the realization. lol Ignorance really is bliss. My time as a bass head was over. It is taking a fair amount of my will not to rip my wall out immediately and go to an IB setup. I swore to keep it in until the demo/show season is over this fall but every tweak I make weakens my resolve.
The most interesting thing is that I have found some serious flaws with my stereo and that awareness leads to a near state of panic. I have this weird sense of abominable will that is driving me to make my stereo better now. I've never felt such drive with a hobby before...like ever.
The only thing I am saving in the rebuild is the horns, 30 band eq and my batteries. Amps, subs, midbass, HU; are all getting replaced. It feels like the best way to go forward is to start back at the beginning. This is just some ramblings of a 35 yr. old bass head.

3xcuse me what is the meaning of "IB ser up"? Your pos5 has poetry sad at times , hopefull at the end, wise and smart, I understand what you are saying cause that smile that fullfill your face was SOmetimes 3 times in my life, a mix of satisfaction and surprise , the moment of glory had arrived("perfect" SQ ) but you know inside you , here you go again looking for ssom3thing more...

Focal KRX3, Helix amp on stand by, mcIntosh mc440 & jl audio 750 hd amps helix p dsp. Idmax12 sealed. sony avx601bt double din.excuse my english its not my native lenguaje
file audio is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-30-2013   #19
 
DIYMA freshman
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Arlington heights, il
Posts: 117

Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 80 TheScottishBear will become famous soon enoughTheScottishBear will become famous soon enoughTheScottishBear will become famous soon enoughTheScottishBear will become famous soon enoughTheScottishBear will become famous soon enoughTheScottishBear will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (1)



Default Re: SQ really is subjective.

[QUOTE=file audio;1854113]
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheScottishBear View Post
It's an interesting subject. I was never compelled to pursue anything sq with my system's prior iterations. Then I picked up a pair of ID horns. Right after installing them with minimal eq (7 band) I could see something was different. After getting a 30 band eq and tuning them towards my own personal preferences I was picking up massive amounts of detail on very familiar passages. The dynamics of some live music brought a huge smile to my face when I leaned back and closed my eyes. I think that was the time when I attempted to listen critically to my stereo. As I did I could see flaws that were either ignored or didn't notice until now. I cursed myself at the realization. lol Ignorance really is bliss. My time as a bass head was over. It is taking a fair amount of my will not to rip my wall out immediately and go to an IB setup. I swore to keep it in until the demo/show season is over this fall but every tweak I make weakens my resolve.
The most interesting thing is that I have found some serious flaws with my stereo and that awareness leads to a near state of panic. I have this weird sense of abominable will that is driving me to make my stereo better now. I've never felt such drive with a hobby before...like ever.
The only thing I am saving in the rebuild is the horns, 30 band eq and my batteries. Amps, subs, midbass, HU; are all getting replaced. It feels like the best way to go forward is to start back at the beginning. This is just some ramblings of a 35 yr. old bass head.

3xcuse me what is the meaning of "IB ser up"? Your pos5 has poetry sad at times , hopefull at the end, wise and smart, I understand what you are saying cause that smile that fullfill your face was SOmetimes 3 times in my life, a mix of satisfaction and surprise , the moment of glory had arrived("perfect" SQ ) but you know inside you , here you go again looking for ssom3thing more...
IB is infinite baffle. Do a quick search on the site and a ton of information will come up

2009 BMW 550i
P99rs/iPad mini
ES mini horns/12" midbass 18" Peavey Subs/Ampere Audio
TheScottishBear is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-30-2013   #20
DIYMA 500 Club
 
goodstuff's Avatar
 
OP
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Island of Ice
Posts: 2,957

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 146 goodstuff will become famous soon enoughgoodstuff will become famous soon enoughgoodstuff will become famous soon enoughgoodstuff will become famous soon enoughgoodstuff will become famous soon enoughgoodstuff will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (59)



Default Re: SQ really is subjective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheScottishBear View Post
I think that was the time when I attempted to listen critically to my stereo. As I did I could see flaws that were either ignored or didn't notice until now. I cursed myself at the realization. lol Ignorance really is bliss. My time as a bass head was over. It is taking a fair amount of my will not to rip my wall out immediately and go to an IB setup. I swore to keep it in until the demo/show season is over this fall but every tweak I make weakens my resolve.
The most interesting thing is that I have found some serious flaws with my stereo and that awareness leads to a near state of panic. I have this weird sense of abominable will that is driving me to make my stereo better now. I've never felt such drive with a hobby before...like ever.
You've got....."the fever". Welcome to hell. LoL.
goodstuff is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-30-2013   #21
DIYMA 500 Club
 
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Up to 11 different dimensions
Posts: 12,569

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0 Oliver will become famous soon enoughOliver will become famous soon enoughOliver will become famous soon enoughOliver will become famous soon enoughOliver will become famous soon enoughOliver will become famous soon enoughOliver will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (19)



Default Re: SQ really is subjective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by file audio View Post
SO what are the must do things to get sq.? turn off head unit loudness function ,, whats more?,,, Im trying to get quality but I WANT TO learn new things about sq.
Signal control - EQ's, DSP
Oliver is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-31-2013   #22
 
DIYMA freshman
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: el paso
Posts: 178

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 55 file audio will become famous soon enoughfile audio will become famous soon enoughfile audio will become famous soon enoughfile audio will become famous soon enoughfile audio will become famous soon enoughfile audio will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (0)



Default Re: SQ really is subjective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
Signal control - EQ's, DSP
Need an eq and dsp? Canyou be more specific .. hehe tnx in advnce

Focal KRX3, Helix amp on stand by, mcIntosh mc440 & jl audio 750 hd amps helix p dsp. Idmax12 sealed. sony avx601bt double din.excuse my english its not my native lenguaje
file audio is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-31-2013   #23
DIYMA 500 Club
 
PPI_GUY's Avatar
 
DIYMA Enthusiast
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: KY
Posts: 1,613

Thanks: 5
Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts
Rep Power: 133 PPI_GUY will become famous soon enoughPPI_GUY will become famous soon enoughPPI_GUY will become famous soon enoughPPI_GUY will become famous soon enoughPPI_GUY will become famous soon enoughPPI_GUY will become famous soon enough


iTrader: (7)



Default Re: SQ really is subjective.

If all our brains were wired exactly the same and our perception of sound was identical then, I think we could argue SQ isn't subjective. There are other variables but, the differing construction of our auditory receptors is the primary roadblock.

Absolutely State Of The Art!
PPI_GUY is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-01-2013   #24
DIYMA 500 Club
 
DIYMA Regular
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Bombingham, AL
Posts: 816

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 121 Catman is on a distinguished roadCatman is on a distinguished roadCatman is on a distinguished roadCatman is on a distinguished roadCatman is on a distinguished road


iTrader: (5)



Default Re: SQ really is subjective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hillbilly SQ View Post
LOL I personally HATE live recordings for the most part. There are a couple exceptions but that's it. Guess all the clapping and other crap annoys me too much.
I agree totally. Live recordings are barely tolerable for background music. If I am listening for the enjoyment of the music it won't be a live recording. FWIW ...most studio recordings are not good enough for critical listening. This is why most of my CDs are either TELARC or Mobile Fidelity. It is getting harder and harder to find quality recordings these days.

With a good recording you should be able to tell if the piano is a Steinway / Baldwin / Yamaha or if the organ is a Hammond B3 or a synthesizer. If the drummer is using a Remo or a Ludwig bottom snare head ...or Paiste / Zildjian cymbals or even wood/nylon tipped sticks. Or if the vocals are through a Shure or a Sennheiser microphone. Or if the bass player is using flat or round wound strings.


>^..^<

If money is the root of all evil, why do churches beg for it?
Give me liberty ...or I'll get up and get it myself.
An armed man is a citizen ...an unarmed man is a subject.






Last edited by Catman; 04-01-2013 at 03:55 AM..
Catman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-01-2013   #25
DIYMA 500 Club
 
DIYMA Regular
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Bombingham, AL
Posts: 816

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 121 Catman is on a distinguished roadCatman is on a distinguished roadCatman is on a distinguished roadCatman is on a distinguished roadCatman is on a distinguished road


iTrader: (5)



Default Re: SQ really is subjective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by file audio View Post
Need an eq and dsp? Canyou be more specific .. hehe tnx in advnce
EQ / DSP are 'band aids' for those who do not know how to design and install a system.


>^..^<

If money is the root of all evil, why do churches beg for it?
Give me liberty ...or I'll get up and get it myself.
An armed man is a citizen ...an unarmed man is a subject.





Catman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Location
Where you live
First name
Last name
Do you work in the 12 Volt industry?
Do you work in the 12 Volt industry?
Youtube Channel
Enter Your Youtube Username, And It will Be Linked To In Your Posts!
12V Industry - Company Name
Your company name.
12V Industry - Your Position
Your position in your company.

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Ad Management by RedTyger

Home | User CP | Members List | New Posts | ITrader | Faq | Post Spy