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Car PC guys, just wondering.

9K views 84 replies 23 participants last post by  develguy 
#1 ·
I'm wondering what is entailed in a car PC. For example does a screen that fits in a double DIN slot suck? How do you all deal with the keyboard/mouse? What playback software do you use? Do you have, say, WiFi to transfer files from the home storage to the car?

I'm getting sick of burning countless CD's and thinking it would be just grand to have it all there at once.

Do you all find it worth the troubles or is it just a damn fine gizmo that you are proud of and constantly dicking with?

How's the reliability? Any known issues?

Does this give me easy nav? Or is that a PITA (like I need nav in flatland Illinois :rolleyes: )

Is it cool to watch porn in the car, you know you've done it :p

Do you keep RTA/tuning software in said PC?

I think that's about it for round 1 of questions.
 
#4 ·
Muahahaha...welcome to the new revoultion. :)

Hang on Chad I get you links and anser a few questions in a minute. I'm a mini mod over in the car-audio section and you will get stomped all over for asking those questions there.

I have a couple music videos that are risque.;)
 
#8 · (Edited)
I'm wondering what is entailed in a car PC. For example does a screen that fits in a double DIN slot suck?
Depends on the brand and your version of "suck". Is it hard to read thigns ona 7" screen? Yes it makes life difficult for some programs.


How do you all deal with the keyboard/mouse? What playback software do you use?
There are super mini keyboard options or smaller keyboards about the size of a visor or will fit in most gloveboxes. Wireless are ok, except they can eat through batteries and don't work so well during oh **** moments. Find a good "frontend". I like roadrunner. It will make using your touchscreen alot easier.

Do you have, say, WiFi to transfer files from the home storage to the car?
I have wifi but rarely use it. I have used it at places like starbucks. If you want high speed internet while you are driving, get yourself a dataplan through your cell phone carrier and buy a card or access point. That is the super luxury of carpcs I haven;t done and probably won't although it can be good for traffic and gas station POI. I use an removable harddrive that I can dock in my home computer. USB thumb drives are good for quick transfers.

Do you all find it worth the troubles or is it just a damn fine gizmo that you are proud of and constantly dicking with?
There are times I want to freaking hit it with a sledge hammer but most of the time it does what it is supposed to do. It really depends on getting the right combo of hardware. I have not had a regular HU for over 3 years now.

How's the reliability? Any known issues?
I have only had an issue of crappy molex connectors and one harddrive failure as a result of said connectors. Also, the screen is a little slow in the cold, and might want to get a laptop hard drive just because of extreme cold temps will cause issues. THere are a few full size drives that are designed for automotive use, but they 2-3X$$$.

Does this give me easy nav? Or is that a PITA (like I need nav in flatland Illinois :rolleyes: )
Iguidance3.0 UMPC version (nice big buttons and user interface for a small screen), I think Version 4 is rolling out soon. Pretty much smae look as a Tom Tom screen. The other favorite is Microsofts Mappoint. Get yourself a SIrfIII Usb gps antenna. Iguidance sells a bundle for $120-software and GPS receiver, probably the best combo in my book.

Is it cool to watch porn in the car, you know you've done it :p
All your friends will think you are the sh%t!

Do you keep RTA/tuning software in said PC?
I plan to but my mic preamp needs AC juice. :( I need to find a way to wire it into the car without an inverter or buy a Rolls preamp instead.
 
#9 ·
For example does a screen that fits in a double DIN slot suck?
-Most 7" screens will fit the double DIN slot with some modifications to the casing of the screen, the screen itself will fit.

How do you all deal with the keyboard/mouse?
-While you can use the keyboard and mouse through usb connections, the easier way would be using a touchscreen lcd. I never recall needing to use the keyboard (except for setting up programs)

What playback software do you use?
- most supported playback software is probably winamp

Do you have, say, WiFi to transfer files from the home storage to the car?
- if you have a wireless router at home, a $15 wireless card will do the job. I don't need it though. A portable harddrive makes more sense for me.

Do you all find it worth the troubles or is it just a damn fine gizmo that you are proud of and constantly dicking with?
- Once you've done enough trouble shooting and familiarize with all the advance softwares for audio processing, you'll find it all worth it. Forget the DEQX, your cpu and a few programs are much more powerful.

How's the reliability? Any known issues?
- Most people have trouble with the power supply issues, once you get that figured out, you're home. I use dsatx and it serves me real well. Well, there are still a few things I need to adjust though.

Does this give me easy nav? Or is that a PITA (like I need nav in flatland Illinois :rolleyes: )
- Navigation through iGuidance is probably the best in the industry. I really like it. It's fast and accurate.

Is it cool to watch porn in the car, you know you've done it :p
- No porn here. :(

Do you keep RTA/tuning software in said PC?
- Join our discussion on the pc xo thread, I think you'll like it. I'm still in the testing phase, the car isn't done yet. BUt, I'm getting some measurements done and getting some DRC done, it's neat.
 
#10 ·
Chad-so are you computer savvy? It's not required but will help in your patience of dealing with a carpc. Nice thing about car pcs-there are alot of things you can change/upgrade to tailor it specifically for yourself.
 
#11 ·
Yeah I'm computer savvy. it just seems like a good idea. I really need to rethink my install and how much space it will consume. I imagine the planning stage is the longest. It looks really cool and is something I may start learning about very soon.

Chad
 
#12 ·
If you want 2 channel stereo out for music only, save yourself the time, money, and trouble and get an IDA-X001 with an iPod video. I plan on running one mounted in the trunk for short RCA runs to a processor (probably an MS-8) and then integrating its LCD into the factory head unit LCD location. Then tap into the remotes buttons and relocating them on the OEM headunit. Then relocate the faceplate to function as a mounted fully funtioning remote in the cabin for deep menu navigation and just use the standard funtions like track up/down and volume thru the OEM head and steering wheel buttons. Fully stealth high quality music server (that plays DRM tracks:))
 
#13 ·
My carpc is teh coolest thing I've done to the car and always gets wows. it's very easy to use. install was fairly complicated but not overwhelming. Bugs take time to solve but if you're good with pcs, it's no big thing. I use toslink output from my soundcard to the h701 input and control the processer via the c701. Navi is one click away, as well as radio, cd rom (if I had one installed), media, weather (via wireless internet), etc. It's an all around good system to use. touchscreens are very nice.

spacewise, I was able to build a case out of 3/8" ply that takes up a slightly larger space than a 6 disk cd-changer and fit it in the oem cd-changer slot, although it's being moved as I work on my false floor every night.
 
#14 ·
You've already gotten some replies from our resident experts. I'll give you my take...

I'm wondering what is entailed in a car PC. For example does a screen that fits in a double DIN slot suck?
My Xenarc 7" touchscreen is in a double-din slot. But it was slightly taller than the double-din standard, but fortunately my car had a removable trim piece above the radio. If you have some wiggle room, you may want to consider one of the non-double-din units and fabricate a trim ring. A lot of the double-din screens are either expensive or have crappy inputs. IMO, you want VGA.

How do you all deal with the keyboard/mouse?
Touchscreen and the windows built-in on-screen keyboard. Most of my control is via USB remote control though (CompUSA sells a nice credit-card size one).

What playback software do you use?
Winamp! Low overhead, good controls. Has a double-size feature so that it's big enough for a touchscreen, has "global hotkeys" so you can assign remote control functions to do virtually everything, you can control playlist title font size so it's big enough. Also has an EQ so you can do some crude adjustment on a track by track basis.

Do you have, say, WiFi to transfer files from the home storage to the car?
Run a USB hub up to the front of the car somewhere. Then you can plug in whatever USB devices you want (I leave wifi unplugged during regular usage just because it adds to startup time). Thumb drive, Wifi, laptop transfers, etc.

Do you all find it worth the troubles or is it just a damn fine gizmo that you are proud of and constantly dicking with?
I hate dicking with stuff and I still use it, so there's your answer. :D

How's the reliability? Any known issues?
Lots of issues. Extreme cold, the hard drive doesn't want to work. Extreme heat without good heat dissipation (which can be loud if you use lots of fans -- another issue), and you'll get random bluescreens. Interestingly, I ripped out the hard drive that I had been using in the car for over a year and it had zero bad sectors, so it seems that vibration doesn't matter as much as people think. Anyway, I like the Seagate hard drives because they handle cold weather and frost better. With the other hard drives I used, I would run into problems booting below about 17 degrees. It would have to warm up first. With the Seagate, it never had any problems and it got damned cold here this year. Check the drive specs before buying.

Does this give me easy nav? Or is that a PITA (like I need nav in flatland Illinois :rolleyes: )
I think it's a PITA, but that's because I know I'm not using the best equipment to do it. I'm using the Earthmate-Delorme combo which is terribly slow to load and unreliable to find satellites.

Is it cool to watch porn in the car, you know you've done it :p
On the to-do list. Gotta pass an 80yr old couple with it going. Consider it altruism. It may spark something that they haven't felt in 20 years. :D

Do you keep RTA/tuning software in said PC?
I actually use my laptop for my RTAing, but I do have TrueRTA on the car computer to generate the noise for it. It probably wouldn't be difficult to pull off if I chose a soundcard with phantom power.

Word of advice about sound cards. For whatever reason, the digital output on the motherboard's on-board sound sounds AWFUL. I can't understand why, but it's clearly garbled and has all kinds of funny "digital" artifacts like what you hear on a bad mp3. So your best bet may be to use something external via USB or firewire.
 
#16 ·
For me? 15 seconds. By the time I'm backed out of the driveway and moving forward, it's set to go. But that's because I run windows 98! You guys running XP are sca-rewed! :p

The workaround for XP is to have your computer go into hibernation when you turn the key off. Then when you come back out it loads fast. I tried it, but whenever I'd leave the car off for a couple days I'd come out to a dead battery. Some of the newer power supplies though will do a hard shutoff on your PC if your battery voltage gets below 11v (unfortunately for my car, that's too little too late).
 
#17 ·
Right, with XP and hibernation, you can have music going in 5-10 seconds depending on your hardware and software configuration. 256mb is the best amount of ram you have for fast resumes and overall good activity. With the new dc-dc powersupplies with integrated startup-shutdown controllers, no dead batteries even with hibernation.

I have music about 10-15 seconds of hitting the ignition.
 
#18 ·
the downfall to my setup is that I rely on Console. I need to load my settings everytime I want to listen to music. From ignition to playing music, it takes about 1 minute or so. Keep in mind that my windows xp is stock, not skimmed down in any way and running only 512mb. I can skim down windows to run faster and start off from hibernate, but I haven't set that yet. It would be significantly faster.
 
#19 ·
I was just going to ask about that.

So each time you start your computer do you have to load console and your setup file manually, or do you have it automated?

It seems like the way to go if you could get rid of console, or make it more efficient.
 
#22 ·
I'm running a 3.2gig p4 D celeron right now, but I'll be switching to an athlon +4400 for slightly better performance (on the testbench at home). The athlon should consume less power as well.

BTW, if you compete, is a pc allowed? You'll take competition to a whole new level if you get the right softwares.
 
#24 ·
Strip down your XP to the bare essentials and you could probably do it under a minute by using hibernate. But like I said in my last post, the M1-ATX power supply shuts down at 5 minutes at 11v or less. My car won't start at that point. I suppose I could just modify the circuit (probably just a comparator driving a one-shot or something).

Since I run Windows 98, the only feature I don't get is hibernation. Everything else is fast, and that's with only 700MHz and 256MB. And my computer boots faster than some of the XP computers that hibernate. Really, I see no reason to run WinXP on a car PC, unless people are using some sort of software that requires it.
 
#25 ·
You're absolutely correct Mark, it makes sense to run 98 for quick power up/power down. But, once you consider the applications that we need for raw audio processing, xp is required and there's no other ways around to it. The newer hardwares require at least XP as well. Some applications requires directX and .net too, I'm not even sure if 98 support that.

thehatedguy,
if you can get away with hibernation (if the judge don't know about it or if that's not stated in the rules), you sure can get away with 1 min power up/down.
 
#33 · (Edited)
FYI, every person who has ever tried a car PC besides me appears to be RABIDLY IN LOVE with the concept. HOW DARE YOU SUGGEST a car PC isnt a good idea, if you dont think its a good idea. Heres why they are terrible:


I'm wondering what is entailed in a car PC. For example does a screen that fits in a double DIN slot suck?
Needs to be very expensive. Major problems:

Non VGA monitors do not have the resolution needed to read text. It's simply too small.

Cheaper monitors are too dim to read during the day. Lots of development has gone into gamma adjustment to keep from blinding yourself at night but allowing yourself to see whats going on during the day. Because development tends to be from software weenies, it's time based rather than based on a digital input from the headlight switch. Thus, you have to constantly adjust the gamma correction time to compensate for the time of year, daylight savings, etc.

the touchscreen adapter is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY, and that will change the readability as the overlay changes light transmittance, etc.

How do you all deal with the keyboard/mouse?
mouse is usually exchanged for the touchscreen. some folks use mousetrack balls, others use non-pad based alternatives, but they are almost always used in addition to a touchscreen.

I've only used a keyboard to enter in navigation addresses. Again from development, the aesthetic impossibility software geeks have to face when dealing with keyboards have forced them to develop on screen keyboards which now display on a 7 inch screen to type in artist names to sort through 400 gig of music, or try to enter destinations.

thats a safety hazard while driving! But don't tell that to a carPC enthusiast.

Did I mention TERIBBLE feedback when using a touchscreen? requires the user to take your eyes off the road completely to operate the touchscreen.

I hope you dont have fat fingers.

are you considering a carPC? dont you have a civic? I just put up a WTT thread for a keyboard visor. I want your OEM visor, Ill trade you for a laptop keyboard that is flushed into the drivers side visor. done.

What playback software do you use?
plenty of front ends from MP3CAR.com. and they all suck. They are all IPOD control based, meaning if you don tlike the ipod control system, you are OUT OF LUCK. furthermore, all the development is done by software engineers who tend to add WAY TOO MUCH functionality to their car PC, such as burning utilities, internet explorer (HA! software engineers dont use internet explorer, its some bizzare alernative. what a benefit on the highway!), and it goes on, and on. You want JUST music and nav? tough. you have to deal with a whole mess of dead icons for disabled features. not aesthetically pleasing!

Do you have, say, WiFi to transfer files from the home storage to the car?
I used a laptop. This is feasible, and im sure considered necessary for folks who make the permanent PC in the car solution. Probably the #1 driving force for putting internet in the car. yippie.

Do you all find it worth the troubles or is it just a damn fine gizmo that you are proud of and constantly dicking with?
its a nightmare. the control system is a product engineers worst nightmare. Button mapping is horrible, and even when you go into it and try to re-develop your own front end to fix that abortion of over-displayed information and control, the feedback of a touchscreen doesnt exist and the whole use of the system should be considered a safety hazard. car PC's should be banned except the number of users is so small at the moment they cant possibly compete with bigger hitters like drinkers and cellphone users.

How's the reliability? Any known issues?
plenty of known issues. the largest by far are supply voltage issues, timing for startup and the like. VOltage spikes damage long term stability. As does vibrations and temperature transients. Ask mistahsparkles about how temperature can affect hardware reliability.

Does this give me easy nav? Or is that a PITA
All PC nav is designed for use with a 14" screen, not a 7" screen. displayed information is too small, and ALL SORTS of development on MP3car has arisen from the problems of using PC based nav in a car. on screen keyboards to enter destinations, button zoom features to increase button size and icon size. Can't compete with software written for small screens. The terrible in car use hides behind the map feature which is missing from many small screen navigation units, which display a left turn arrow instead of a routemap and car-representative icon. many of the enthusiasts WANT THAT MAP. consider it superior.

This has driven more than one enthusiast to put larger and larger screens in the car whom can get away with it. along with all the associated support equipment.

Is it cool to watch porn in the car, you know you've done it :p
never done it, dunno.

Do you keep RTA/tuning software in said PC?
never. I kept audio in the audio realm, and PC in the PC realm. interface is far too important to have to rely on such unreliable equipment with terrible mapping and feedback to control inferior sources (another can of worms to the PC enthusiast!).

one major reason I gave it all a shot was because my signal processor had rs232 computer control. but every processor that has this feature uses a controlscreen designed for use with a 14" laptop screen (do we see a unifying theme here?). TOTALLY unuseable in the car. I ended up snaking a USB line under the chair and tuning seperately, bypassing the 7" touchscreen.




Still want a car PC? you have a civic? I want your sunvisor. PM me, lets trade.

also expect the next two pages of posts addressing the problems I have addressed one by one to tell me why I am wrong, car PC's are great, etc.
 
#39 ·
also expect the next two pages of posts addressing the problems I have addressed one by one to tell me why I am wrong, car PC's are great, etc.
The reason you would expect that is because you know you're wrong. :p

I use mine strictly for music. I don't use a frontend. I can read every word. And I never have to touch the touchscreen.

Describe a better solution. Who wants to fumble with CDs? I don't. I refuse to use that silly medium at home, in the car, at work, wherever. Who wants to head back to the trunk to adjust the left midrange EQ and tweak the phase by 15 degrees?
 
#35 ·
I think you're quick to jump the gun there buddy!

Although I do agree that the complexity and certain complications due to the hostile environment of the car, it certainly isn't something one can overcome when it comes to installing a pc in the car without being a pc enthusiast (or geek if that's what you're after :p ).

I was thoroughly excited what the PC can do in terms of processing after shinobiwan (from diyaudio.com) started his pc xo thread. IMO, it's much more than just running wireless in the car, viewing videos or playing pc games in the car. It's the processing power that attracted me and of course, the navigation and videos are bonuses. (who wouldn't like some videos on a long roadtrip for the kids?)
 
#38 ·
Maybe this sounds trite, even misguided, but here goes.

For a previous job, I was doing the road warrior thing, driving about 1000 miles a week all around the north east. I had an 86 Bronco, so spare room wasn't an issue. I had a HD mount for my laptop, with a nicely wired power supply (The same arrangement you see in todays police cars). Since I ended up with 2 laptops, I just left the one in the truck. I removed all programs that didn't need to be there, had a friend strip down the OS for faster load times, and kept in my Nav program - Delorme Street Atlas, at the time wired to a receiver on the dash. Nav, MP3's, DVD ability, internet via PCMCIA net card. Through the Northeast winter and summer, hill and dale, on and way the hell off road, truck stops, open windows in the rain - that Dell laptop never skipped a beat, made very little heat, almost no power draw. I had shortcuts on the desktop for 3 gamma settings, basically a day, dusk, night setting. I still have that laptop today, it still works.

I know not of details of such I speak, but - Why not pick up a used 14" laptop from your favorite auction site, strip it down and use that to start? For about $600, you have a starting point. Todays mobile hard drives are punishable, the power supplies from 12V are about the size of a pack of twinkies. Small keyboard, relocatable DVD drives. It even has battery backup. Motherboard goes in the console, run all ports with cables to where ever. The front third of a laptop is usually battery, optical drive space and speakers anyway. Wasted space. Get freaky with a soldering iron and some ribbon cable.

I could see the touchscreen thing being a headache of biblical proportions, so get a presentation pointer, like a mouse on a stick. Bad visual, sorry. Hand held thing that college professors and old school Star Trek wannabe's use.

Dell has some pretty cool docking solutions for big business and educational purposes. Build a vertical dock in your console, setup so that it outputs to a seprate monitor. Close lid, drop in laptop, grab remote. Or fat finger the sketchy touch screen.

I've always had big cars or trucks, never the lunchbox on wheels type. I worked a few years at a body shop and learned - go big and full framed. (For vehicles only, women are a different category). A 10 - 14 inch custom installed screen isn't that far off complication from some of the speaker installs you see here. Air bags, sub-caged dashes, mini cars and stuff cause problems, OK. But back to basics - use laptop stuff - it's built specifically for the abuse and size constraints. Just an idea, throwin it out there, see what comes back.
 
#40 ·
Reason I expect it is because I've been shouted down before when dissenting agasint anything that becomes a big fat forum bandwagon. regardless of the justification.

id say most of the people here have ways to control their signal processor up front.

I prefer CD's over mp3 because its a much easier "filesystem" to deal with from a "road distraction" perspective. so theres one person who wants to fumble with CD's!

ultimately, thats the #1 priority. "industrial design" trumps function and feature.
 
#49 ·
Reason I expect it is because I've been shouted down before when dissenting agasint anything that becomes a big fat forum bandwagon. regardless of the justification.
I wouldn't call it a forum bandwagon when you've only got about a half dozen people using it.

id say most of the people here have ways to control their signal processor up front.
Which processor then? Maybe I'm not up on it, but I can't think of very good in-dash processors that don't cost a fortune. The H701? How do you control it? Or are you talking about these head unit solutions that are limited in their capabilities and number of channels? Trust me, if I could do what I do with a head unit, I'd rather do that. But to my knowledge, that sort of thing doesn't exist.

I prefer CD's over mp3 because its a much easier "filesystem" to deal with from a "road distraction" perspective. so theres one person who wants to fumble with CD's!
Why do you keep assuming it's a road distraction? Because you weren't able to implement it correctly? I don't know why you're messing with typing in stuff. Doesn't make any sense. I press a single button on a remote control (without taking my eyes off the road) to load the directory, and then I single click the album I want and hit the big enter key. Back when I used to use CDs, I'd have to sit there and leaf through a CD book, look through the visor for one, or even reach the floor. Trust me, I'm operating a lot more safely than most people who use CDs.
 
#42 ·
Whiterabbit-

I can tell you tried a carpc a while ago. The advancements have been better. The power supply options were horrible 3-4 years ago. Now there are plenty of options that do not have issues with varying voltages in the car.

As far as the user interface and people doing things in the car they shouldn't be, that is another story. But come on, Alpine, pioneer, etc all have multimedia headunits. Those are just as a distraction as is a normal HU IMO. And yes, you still have to take your eyes off the road to change CD's. I can take my hand off my shifter and change tracks without even taking my eyes off the road via remote (Keyspan). I barely use the touchscreen, and when I need to my passenger does it for me.

If you don;t like that and have steering wheel controls, that can be integrated in a few ways (one includes the PAC SWI-X). There is a company that makes a car2pc adapter that plugs into your cd changer control on your factory HU and you can control via stock controls. I'm actually going one step further and wirining directly to my stock controls via a keyboard controller. Use your imagination, a carpc is not a plug and play for everyone.

Also hows is this touch screen interface for you? It's called Simplistique skin for Roadrunnerbecause it's not clutered full of useless buttons and such. If you can't hit these buttons ona 7" screen you have some serious fat fingers and need to go a on a diet.




Streetdeck has a nice big easy interface too, but the cost is $200 with Mappoint nav software and ~$100 without nav software/

Startup time for me is <30 seconds. I hibernate XP, not suspend to RAM. I use an M2-ATX and just have it turn off after 45secs, screw that low voltage monitor crap.

sqkev-

save your settings in console and then take that file and throw it in your startup folder. Then console will reload on startup I believe.
 
#43 ·
Oh, and don't mind the BMW logo, you can put a Honda Logo or Clock in there instead.

Another good skin for roadrunner I have been watching develop is the FU skin.
 
#44 ·
markZ-

If you like just using Winamp, you can scale it even larger than doublesize if you are using version 5+.

Look under modern skins menu in prefs, then go to the "Scaling" section, click box that says " link all windows in all skins" and then adjust the slider until winamp is as big as you need it.
 
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