Um, I don't think so. I've seen more than one report of the years of persons testing out horn loaded systems in a vehicle and not getting the gain they expected to see.
I suspect a lot of this is likely due to the horn playing the part of a transformer, the output being very dependent on the loading at the mouth. The closed environment of a car's cabin is VERY different to that of a room, hall or open air environment where you are more likely to see horns used.
Brian I think you are agreeing in one way with me and misapplying the term in another way.
Your completely correct about horn in car location and response variations. I posted a bit about that myself. But cabin gain is independent of the source. It is a function of the cabin's interior dimensions when excited by a pressure wave. No matter what kind of a box produces that wave you will get the attendant gain. I think you agree on that point. I only factor that part of the response in when I can measure the car and the person wants a really flat system. And that "flat" response is out the window as soon as there is any road noise. Cars are a pain in the butt.
Jasun: Sometimes it helps to add the details sometimes it is an exercise in boredom.
Originally Posted by mwmkravchenko
Put the same driver in a horn and what happens. Plus 9 db from the get go. So you start off with 93 db/watt. How much to get to 110db? 200/2=100 watts 3db less 100/2=50 watts 3db less 50/2=25 watts the last 3 db difference. So in a horn the same driver gets you the same SPL at 25 watts. Now were cooking with gas! Your amp has huge amounts of headroom. The driver has not been sucking in wattage that will warm it up changing it's resistance and causing power compression.
That's actually one good argument for horns, but unfortunately it's not enough IMO for car audio environment.
Not good enough for who? You maybe.
But please leave the thinking to the people reading this thread. The reasoning in the posts I made is based on sound logic and experience. Out of your own accord you have said that you have not built a horn nor listened to one in a car. When you have tried it and not liked it then you can knock it. Until then it is but an unsubstantiated opinion.
And I mean no disrespect in the comment about you not having heard a horn in a car. Some of these horns are pretty damn small as you know from my thread in diyaudio and from Patricks thread there and here. These boxes pump out sound at volumes you could never achieve with a box the same size using any other means. Some horns are monsters that would make anyone with an ounce of sanity say no way man not in my car! The trick is in getting the most for the least. That is where the real engineering comes into play. I enjoy the learning curve and the pay-off when I get to listen to the results. I share the results because I enjoy them so much myself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwmkravchenko
The greater efficiency means that for a given SPL the driver is moving forward and backward less. Much less. So you again get less distortion.
This is not exactly true. Like all other alignments, it depends on the implementation. If you don't do it right, you can end up with horrible excursion control at the lower end of the horn's passband. And this can be a BIG problem if you select too high a cutoff for your horn, assuming that the car's "cabin gain" will fill in the rest.
Man I think you like to disagree just to get me up on my little soap box.
How about this line of reasoning:
If a driver has a greater mechanical efficiency because it is in an acoustical transformer ( horn ) it has less excursion than the same driver in a vented or sealed enclosure. So it therefore has to move less in a horn to develop a given SPL than in a conventional box.
A properly constructed horn that has been measured and presented in this thread is here for the discussion. It works as specified. Any box can be fubarred into not working. And almost any alignment for a given loudspeaker can be built by most people if they put their mind to it. And if attention to detail is given it will work as planned, modeled and tested. A horn has particular needs. A high pass filter if plan on going loud and proud is a needed item. Trying to drive a horn below it's passband will quickly kill as both of us know Brian
And to be very fair to your comment a well designed horn is not as easy as it may appear. There is a lot of tweaking that has to be done to get them to work as optimally as can be achieved.
Your website is a testament to that concept right? A good box design is presented and there for all to see admire and build. You are an experienced person when it comes to sound reproduction to be sure.
So I'm quite sure that at some point you will take some of your well thought out horn designs that you have presented and build one. Remember I have offered to make up a fold for you if so choose. So I'm throwing down the gauntlet.
You post the design and I will post a fold for you. If you are to collaborate on the design I'm guessing that Patrick may want to take a kick at this to. Maybe between the three of us there is a full brain!
May I suggest a four driver horn ala Patrick Bateman concept using the well thought of MCM 8" driver. Four of these puppies will get you an ability to absorb 800 watts without a hickup. The ultimate SPL capability is through the roof. The box size will be dictated by the desired low end response. And if you want louder and prouder you can switch out the MCM drivers and insert the TRIO8's or the ID 8's. Options my good man are always a good thing.
The only pain in the butt is that it is not so easy to model in Hornresp. But it can be done now that you can bounce the box design in Hornresp to a design to look at in Akabak with relative ease.
Mark