Anyone want to critique some recordings I made? - Page 2 - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 5 Days Ago   #26
DIYMA 500 Club
 
DIYMA Enthusiast
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,139

Thanks: 40
Thanked 26 Times in 21 Posts
Rep Power: 168 bbfoto is a jewel in the roughbbfoto is a jewel in the roughbbfoto is a jewel in the roughbbfoto is a jewel in the roughbbfoto is a jewel in the roughbbfoto is a jewel in the roughbbfoto is a jewel in the roughbbfoto is a jewel in the roughbbfoto is a jewel in the roughbbfoto is a jewel in the roughbbfoto is a jewel in the rough


iTrader: (19)



Default Re: Anyone want to critique some recordings I made?

Thought you might be interested in this. Korneel Bernolet, a harpsichordist and engineer from Belgium that I've corresponded with regarding the Josephson C617SET Omni microphones posted this video of himself and a good friend who is a Cellist.

This recording of Harpsichord and Cello is done with just the 2 Josephson C617SET Omni microphones seen in the video. The location is in the description of the video but you can get a fairly good idea of the space that it is in.

The Oktava MK012 microphone that is between the two Josephson mics was not used in the audio you hear in this video (Korneel initially thought that the Octava might add some definition to the Cello, but said it sounded horrible, LOL).

He mentioned that the microphones sounded truest to reality by being placed in the position you see them in. He initially had them pointed more towards the instruments but there was just too much detail of each and not a balanced sound. He described it as "too much HF detail (bow-string sounds, harpsichord gling-gling), and the overall sound was less pleasing."

I'm considering these microphones for my own use. They don't extend quite as high or low in Frequency as your Earthworks QTC30 Omni's (the C617's are spec'd at 10Hz-20kHz, +/- 1dB, though the microphone body electronics are capable out to 80kHz). But they are also rated to 146dB Max SPL and have ~6dB Lower Self-Noise compared to the QTC30.

Josephson C617SET Data Sheet

They also have optional, precision machined 40mm Spherical Baffles available for the mics... Josephson SPB40A | ZenPro Audio

^This web site also have what they call the "Clipilator", where you can listen to and compare a multitude of microphones, mic preamps, AD converters, etc. as heard on the same exact source and the same recording "take".

Other than using the C617's on sources such as Acoustic Guitar, as seen in one of the previous YouTube videos that I posted above, these are the microphones that I thought I might also be able to use effectively in a DIY Crown SASS Array setup like yours or with a Jecklin Disc.

Let me know if you have any thoughts for or against using these in a SASS Array?

Unfortunately the link to the original files is broken, so you'll have to listen to them via YouTube with its obvious compression, but make sure you watch/listen in HD for the best audio Quality! I especially like the piece that starts @ 3:50

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.



Another FANTASTIC recording by Korneel! The C617's are up in the "Tree".

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.



I've also seen and heard some very impressive recordings of Classical Piano and Harp using the C617's. You can find a few of these on YouTube as well if interested.

Some other videos discussing these microphones by the creator...

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.



Justin, Josephson Engineering is located in Santa Cruz, so it might be worth your time to stop by. Perhaps if you share your recordings and what you are trying to achieve they might loan you a pair of C617's.

.

Last edited by bbfoto; 5 Days Ago at 02:48 AM..
bbfoto is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 4 Days Ago   #27
DIYMA 500 Club
Upgrade Your Membership!
 
Jazzi's Avatar
 
Acoustical Mad Scientist
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 1,781

Thanks: 2
Thanked 25 Times in 17 Posts
Rep Power: 81 Jazzi has a spectacular aura aboutJazzi has a spectacular aura aboutJazzi has a spectacular aura aboutJazzi has a spectacular aura aboutJazzi has a spectacular aura aboutJazzi has a spectacular aura aboutJazzi has a spectacular aura aboutJazzi has a spectacular aura aboutJazzi has a spectacular aura aboutJazzi has a spectacular aura about


iTrader: (4)



Default Re: Anyone want to critique some recordings I made?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbfoto View Post
I'm considering these microphones for my own use. They don't extend quite as high or low in Frequency as your Earthworks QTC30 Omni's (the C617's are spec'd at 10Hz-20kHz, +/- 1dB, though the microphone body electronics are capable out to 80kHz). But they are also rated to 146dB Max SPL and have ~6dB Lower Self-Noise compared to the QTC30.

......

Other than using the C617's on sources such as Acoustic Guitar, as seen in one of the previous YouTube videos that I posted above, these are the microphones that I thought I might also be able to use effectively in a DIY Crown SASS Array setup like yours or with a Jecklin Disc.

Let me know if you have any thoughts for or against using these in a SASS Array?

.........

Justin, Josephson Engineering is located in Santa Cruz, so it might be worth your time to stop by. Perhaps if you share your recordings and what you are trying to achieve they might loan you a pair of C617's.
It seems like the only qualification for a microphone to use in a Jeklin Disc or a something like the SASS array is that the microphone should be omnidirectional. I don't see any reason why the C617's would not work in such a thing. They are really expensive though so you might consider renting a pair (or asking for a demo set from the manufacturer) if that is an option before you purchase them? You will also want to pay careful attention to the equipment you connect them to so you can make sure they are not crippled by a noisy pre-amp etc.

Something that might not be obvious is using an array like a Jelkin or an SASS will introduce significant frequency response changes that are different based on the angle of the incoming sound. For example the change in treble from on-axis will be different from the change in treble off-axis. This is an intentional part of the array construction, but I found it useful to measure this transfer function from various angles and then apply a global EQ to my recordings to correct for the average of these anomalies. In my case, the corrections were significant and changed the character of the recordings in an obvious and pleasant way.

I prefer something like the QTC30 because of the flat frequency response well beyond the bandwidth I intend to use since the phase response of the microphone will remain much more flat in the audio range of 20-20khz. This is because the phase response will begin to change significantly as the frequency response starts to change even a small amount. For me, I view these microphones as a recording device but also as a very precise measurement tool for science and learning, so the performance "on paper" is important for my uses even if I can never hear what 6hz or 35khz sounds like.

I did not know that Josephson was based in Santa Cruz, that's neat. I might have to visit them sometime

Measure with mics, mark with chalk, cut with torch, grind to fit, sand to finish, paint to match.
-My 2002 VW Golf stealth SQ build (an engineering student's perspective)
-Jazzi's tuning companion for Room EQ Wizard
Jazzi is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 4 Days Ago   #28
DIYMA 500 Club
 
DIYMA Enthusiast
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,139

Thanks: 40
Thanked 26 Times in 21 Posts
Rep Power: 168 bbfoto is a jewel in the roughbbfoto is a jewel in the roughbbfoto is a jewel in the roughbbfoto is a jewel in the roughbbfoto is a jewel in the roughbbfoto is a jewel in the roughbbfoto is a jewel in the roughbbfoto is a jewel in the roughbbfoto is a jewel in the roughbbfoto is a jewel in the roughbbfoto is a jewel in the rough


iTrader: (19)



Default Re: Anyone want to critique some recordings I made?

^Cool. Thanks for the information. It makes sense about the extended FR with regards to phase. And yeah, there are several places I can source the C617 mics from that will allow me to demo at home before committing to a purchase. I did find the FR effects and necessary post-correction interesting in researching the SASS Array and Jecklin Disc setups. Sounds to me like it's worth the trouble though according to what I hear in your recordings!

Regarding the microphone preamps, yes, that is really important, too, as is the quality of the A/D conversion. For the moment I'm using the Millennia HV-3D-8 preamps, and while not being the absolute best available, they are very well-respected as being clean, transparent, low-noise, and fairly neutral. They just aren't really feasible for use in a highly-portable location rig!

I'm also looking into better A/D than I currently have. I'd love to have one of the Prism Sound ADA-8XR or Merging Technologies Horus or Hapi 8-channel units, but they are serious $$$ and I'm still a hobbyist for the most part. There is an RME 2-Channel unit that is also a dual Hi-End Headphone amp that is highly rated... ADI 2 Pro. It's supposedly excellent for use in a measurement rig as well. It's just $$$...that I don't have.

Curious as to what mics and other gear you'd want to invest in if money was no object, haha? It seems as if the Earthworks QTC30's are fairly capable as it is, though!

Thanks again for all of the info and keep us posted if you make any more cool recordings!
bbfoto is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 4 Days Ago   #29
DIYMA 500 Club
Upgrade Your Membership!
 
Jazzi's Avatar
 
Acoustical Mad Scientist
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 1,781

Thanks: 2
Thanked 25 Times in 17 Posts
Rep Power: 81 Jazzi has a spectacular aura aboutJazzi has a spectacular aura aboutJazzi has a spectacular aura aboutJazzi has a spectacular aura aboutJazzi has a spectacular aura aboutJazzi has a spectacular aura aboutJazzi has a spectacular aura aboutJazzi has a spectacular aura aboutJazzi has a spectacular aura aboutJazzi has a spectacular aura about


iTrader: (4)



Default Re: Anyone want to critique some recordings I made?

I'm not sure why you are unhappy with the Millennia HV-3D-8. What do you not like about it? Or is it a grass-is-greener-on-the-other-side kind of thing?

For portability, I use a pure sine wave 12v inverter to Power the Tascam UH-7000 mic interface running off a small sealed lead acid battery (5Ah or so?). It can run the mic preamp for hours by itself, or recharge my laptop for a little while too. The whole kit fits in a medium size backpack and lasts about 1.5-2 hours which is limited by my laptop battery.

If money were no object, I would be happy with the gear I have. The QTC30's and the Tascam are my end-game gear for measurements and stereo recordings. I want to experiment with mid-side technique and would want to get a nice matched pair of directional microphones and a stand to do that with. I might want a wireless headphone setup for recording music so my performers can listen without me dragging wires all over the place, but I would be equally happy with some simple headphone extension cables.

I might want to get some fancy software to explore and training to go with it though.

Measure with mics, mark with chalk, cut with torch, grind to fit, sand to finish, paint to match.
-My 2002 VW Golf stealth SQ build (an engineering student's perspective)
-Jazzi's tuning companion for Room EQ Wizard
Jazzi is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 4 Days Ago   #30
DIYMA 500 Club
 
DIYMA Enthusiast
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,139

Thanks: 40
Thanked 26 Times in 21 Posts
Rep Power: 168 bbfoto is a jewel in the roughbbfoto is a jewel in the roughbbfoto is a jewel in the roughbbfoto is a jewel in the roughbbfoto is a jewel in the roughbbfoto is a jewel in the roughbbfoto is a jewel in the roughbbfoto is a jewel in the roughbbfoto is a jewel in the roughbbfoto is a jewel in the roughbbfoto is a jewel in the rough


iTrader: (19)



Default Re: Anyone want to critique some recordings I made?

Oh no, I'm completely thrilled with the Millennia Pre's!!! It's just that the HV-3D-8 alone without any other gear is a heavy, 2U rack piece of gear that isn't particularly made for run & gun portability.

For location recording I'd probably want to go with something like the new ZOOM F8 or a 2- or 4-channel Sound Devices or Zaxcom unit. ...Or a smaller/lighter USB Interface. I've used my Audient iD22 on location off of battery Power as well and it really does work great, and I really like its software, but the mic Pre's aren't quite as clean, silent, and pure as the Millennia's that I've been spoilt with. It's hard to go backwards I guess. I'll take another look at your Tascam UH-7000.

I can send you one of my Samar VL37A ribbon mics (figure of 8 polar pattern) and a Lewitt LCT-550 LDC Cardioid + one of the CAD E100S LDC Cardioid mics if you want to play with them in a M/S setup and test them in general for a few weeks. I'm going to be working out of town on a photo shoot for about 2.5 weeks starting Friday so I wouldn't be able to make use of them during that time anyway. LMK.

Thanks again for your thoughts on this stuff!

Last edited by bbfoto; 4 Days Ago at 11:05 PM..
bbfoto is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 3 Days Ago   #31
DIYMA 500 Club
Upgrade Your Membership!
 
Jazzi's Avatar
 
Acoustical Mad Scientist
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 1,781

Thanks: 2
Thanked 25 Times in 17 Posts
Rep Power: 81 Jazzi has a spectacular aura aboutJazzi has a spectacular aura aboutJazzi has a spectacular aura aboutJazzi has a spectacular aura aboutJazzi has a spectacular aura aboutJazzi has a spectacular aura aboutJazzi has a spectacular aura aboutJazzi has a spectacular aura aboutJazzi has a spectacular aura aboutJazzi has a spectacular aura about


iTrader: (4)



Default Re: Anyone want to critique some recordings I made?

Oh I see. Yeah rackmount gear is certainly not portable-friendly. The Tascam UH-7000 (and Power inverter and battery) isn't designed to be portable either, but I wasn't considering that when purchasing it and just wanted to get the best (affordable) mic pre-amp I could get. It still works out though.

I'm thrilled you are willing to let me borrow your gear and I will certainly keep that in mind. I do not have any recording lined up but if that changes I'll come find you.

Measure with mics, mark with chalk, cut with torch, grind to fit, sand to finish, paint to match.
-My 2002 VW Golf stealth SQ build (an engineering student's perspective)
-Jazzi's tuning companion for Room EQ Wizard
Jazzi is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Location
Where you live
First name
Last name
Do you work in the 12 Volt industry?
Do you work in the 12 Volt industry?
Youtube Channel
Enter Your Youtube Username, And It will Be Linked To In Your Posts!
12V Industry - Company Name
Your company name.
12V Industry - Your Position
Your position in your company.

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Ad Management by RedTyger

Home | User CP | Members List | New Posts | ITrader | Faq | Post Spy