Audison Bit One (Hi-res: 56k, Go make some coffee and take a nap)

[quality_sound]

Isn't the processing on the DC Refs and the DSP-6 the exact same? Same slopes, number of bands, etc?

[St. Dark]

A couple of things no-one has touched on: firmware updates CAN lock up (which just means you have to power down and start over) a Bit One if you try do it on the bench without going through the initial input configuration and feeding it a signal on at least a pair of RCA / high level inputs. It's suggested you do this, THEN update the firmware (this info directly from Larry Frederick).
Another important item is that the ones EM-USA is sending out to dealers, are from the same shipment batch that the ones currently in the field are from.

[t3sn4f2]

Originally Posted by quality_sound

Isn't the processing on the DC Refs and the DSP-6 the exact same? Same slopes, number of bands, etc?

10 from the DSP6 out to 10 from the DC = 20

24dB slope from the DSP6 cascaded onto 24db slope from the DC's (at the same xover frequency) = 48dB slope.

[quality_sound]

Originally Posted by t3sn4f2

10 from the DSP6 out to 10 from the DC = 20

Gotcha

24dB slope from the DSP6 cascaded onto 24db slope from the DC's (at the same xover frequency) = 48dB slope.

The DC manual shows -48dB slopes on the example screen.

[t3sn4f2]

Originally Posted by quality_sound

Gotcha



The DC manual shows -48dB slopes on the example screen.

Oh man, 96dB slopes!!

Software only goes to 24db though

[ARCuhTEK]

Originally Posted by pyropoptrt

Personally, it looks like I'll be waiting until March to order my Bit One when they will (supposedly) release that big firmware update.

Do you care to share your source for that information (March big firmware update)?

On another question....for current Bit One owners:

How do you find out what firmware version your Bit One has installed? Is that via the software program included? I still do not have mine in hand, but will want to check the firmware version as soon as I get it.

Thanks,

[quality_sound]

Originally Posted by t3sn4f2

Oh man, 96dB slopes!!

Software only goes to 24db though

And that's fine with me but it makes me wonder why the screen showed 48dB...weird.

[ARCuhTEK]

No that anyone cares.....but:

I just spoke with my Audison supplier. My Bit One was supposed to be in his hands today. There is a two week delay from EM. So including shipping to him from EM, it will not be in until 3 weeks from today at best.

I also ask him to confirm he was an authorized dealer. He confirmed and also stated my unit will be fully warrantied.

Just sayin...

[denali804]

Originally Posted by ARCuhTEK

Do you care to share your source for that information (March big firmware update)?

On another question....for current Bit One owners:

How do you find out what firmware version your Bit One has installed? Is that via the software program included? I still do not have mine in hand, but will want to check the firmware version as soon as I get it. Verified today that mine will be back tomorrow.

Thanks,

When the bitone links up to your computer the screen on computer will show its current firmware. Upper right hand corner. Also you might want to get in contact with elletromedia(sp) and make sure that the company that is selling the unit are authorized dealer so that you can make sure you have warranty through audison.

[ARCuhTEK]

Originally Posted by denali804

When the bitone links up to your computer the screen on computer will show its current firmware. Upper right hand corner. Also you might want to get in contact with elletromedia(sp) and make sure that the company that is selling the unit are authorized dealer so that you can make sure you have warranty through audison.

Good idea. I did a google search for a website AND a phone number. No juice. I am using this as the keywords:

Elletromedia USA
Electromedia USA

Anyone have their website or contact info? Much appreciated.

Never mind....I just found this:

For more information about Elettromedia-USA and their product lines, AUDISON/HERTZ/CONNECTION - just call 877-567-3030 and ask for Ken or Larry

[Insane01VWPassat]

Ding Ding Ding.... the Black Sheep is here....


Ive been watching this post long enough to realistically believe I should of had several stiff drinks, some coffee and passed thru a long boring movie with some of the comments made on here. At this point its not even a matter of who's right and who's wrong as I see a lot of wrongs on this post from both sides of the argument and yet another reason why this industry is going downhill.

For some its no secret of the underlying issues that are within the foundation of the bitone technology. I have had one in my car for several weeks now and I was one of the ones who had issues with the processor (confirmed issues) at this years CES show in LAS Vegas. I think I need to remind some of you that this is new application for this technology in this market and there will be a learning curve for everybody including the manufacture. EXPECT ISSUES!!! When a manufacture with a new product starts having any issues of any kind or size they have 2 options-

1)Turn your head and neither deny or admit to the problem and act like it doesnt exist.

2) Deal with the problem head on and fix it!

In this case EM took option 2 and not only are they taking back all 40 units that were shipped here in the US they also as a group (Ken, Matt and Larry P) called each and every one of ther customers they shipped units to and explained the possible concern wether there is a problem or not, and is shipping new units to their "AUTHORIZED" dealers only! They also took the time to apologize for any inconvience this may of caused and also discussed the process for the new software and the inhouse firmware updates they are making. This isnt jsut for units that have been confirmed with issues, its for all of the units sold. THIS IS CUSTOMER SERVICE. Note if you purchased your processor via this forum or another online source... well... you better hope your online salesman can take care of this since EM is holding a very strong and strick "authorized dealer only" policy regarding firmware updates and warranty. For me that was the best part.... NO SIDEWAYS BULLSHIT! hooray!!

Ive watched from forum to forum worldwide people get into childish pissing matches about if there is and was a problem with the bitone. Open your eyes.... there was!!! BUT NOT WITH ALL UNITS!! First off just becasue one unit has a problem doesnt mean the next will have issues as well. Yes there was and is multiple units out there that have shown these issues but then again there is also multiple that have shown no issues as well. Either way EM is still doing what I consider a admirable effort.Props to the crew at EM for taking care of their customers.

Now back to some stupidity on this forum.....

To the people who have been bashing the piece due to the issues-

USE YOUR HEAD!!! its a new product... a new design.... and its not a $20 chinese prefab design thats off the shelf and available to the world. If you are that persistant to go into a frenzy to make sure you are the first one on the block to have something that has ZERO field time and has not been proved in quantaties and multiple applications be a runner..... EXPECT TO HAVE ISSUES!!! it's part of the game....In the end they will get worked out and the problems resolved.

To the people who were arguing the other side of the effort-

Just becuase you are in a different country or have used one that did work that you close your mind to the possibility that there could be a problem with units other than your's. Think about it. And for the Austrailian distributor on this forum I wouldd be making some phone calls to EM USA and take a few notes from these guys about "Taking precautions" before it comes back to bite you in the ass..

Now on to other things.........


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Here is a review I posted on another forum about my first impressions of the Bitone-


Well I spent a good deal of time yesterday installing and redoing the trim work etc where the bitone now calls home. I have gotten a bunch of emails and calls in the past 24 hours so here is my first impressions of what I think of the piece....


Installation -


The small package size and presentation of the bitone makes installation very easy. Size in almost identical to that of the the brain of the PHA-H701. wiring interface, depending on the installation and features that you wish to use could create some issues to pre existing installations where wiring has apready been completed at exact lengths and secured.

For standard aftermarket installations wiring will require access to 3 sides of the units (1 side for output RCA's, another side is home for power, ground and remote, and turn on, and the other side is home for the Coaxial, Toslink and RCA input. One annoyance I found was that the unit has a ton of "Extra" connections in the power plugs and recepticals like the one labeled "MEM" ..... in the instructions it tells you that it is optional, but it is for when you turn the unit off, if hooked up it will auto save each time you turn your system off.... but it doesnt tell you what kind of connection it is or what to hook it up to... no + or _ or anything.... there is several issues like this with the manual....


Software installation -

The software installatoin is easy however the update process for the new versions of software is just time consuming... rather than having update feature for the software you must use your computers control panel and uninstall the software and reinstall the new sofware to complete this procedure.

after installing the software it searches for the bit one but it will then require to install the BLL USB driver files for the interface... if you have the disk this will be as easy as clicking a button... if you have lost the disk or retrieved the file from the internet you will have to manualy place the file in the depths of your computer.

After it completed the connection it then forces you to complete the automatic configuration utility. during this procedure you will need to install the provided disk into your source unit and then play track one at the highest unclipped volume setting you have while the bit one automatically sets the input levels. (This function requires you to have Low Level or Hi LEvel inputs hooked up to the processor)... then it has you select your speaker configuration, channel selections, passive or no passive configurations etc... after about a 10 minute setup you then finally get to the main screen.

From there it is recommended that you update the firmware..... for this you then must disconnect all connections to the bit one main unit with the exception of the usb, power ground and ignition. Yesterday Larry had me update to version 1071 new release as of christmas ...... the first attempt at loading the firmware was very frusterating as there is a portion of the process where the task bar locks up (typical and expected as per the instructions) but in this case it took over 45 minutes...

I ended up calling Larry and we took a chance and disconnected and restarted the process... (Please note it is not recommended as during the lock and freeze time this is when the computer is writing flash bios operations to the Bitones main chip ... if this procedure is interrupted or not completed it can potentially leave the bitone rendered useless and you will have to send it back to Audison).

After over 2 1/2 hours with Larry and one of their engineer's we finally got thru the problems with the firmware and now working correctly the process takes all of about 6 minutes to make the update. (NOTE THE BITONE IS EXTREMELY SENSITIVE TO VOLTAGE FLUXUATIONS EVEN AS LITTLE AS .01 VOLTS AND CAN CAUSE LOCK UP ISSUES DURING THE UPDATE) Final note is once all of the bugs are worked out and everything goes smoothly it is a easy and simple procedure.

after the firmware is updated the system reconnects and then asks you to complete the configuration usility once again (Yes this was frusterating and makes no sense to me why I have to redo it over and over)


User Interface and software utility -

After the whole ordeal and a good part of the afternoon wasted on setup I finally had sound passing thru the bitone and had a chance to start using the software....

First off.... From a general standpoint... whomever designed this user interface did their homework.... Without reading a single instruction I was able to cruise thru the features and completley understand almost every feature and option of the software... the organization and feature utilities are very clearly layed out and identified...... The first thing I did was set all of my crossovers... First thing was to establish linked channels between all of the common drivers which is complete witha simple click and the bitone completes the rest as you already identified the channel assignements during the configuration. Then giving you the options for almost any kind of crossover you could ever want.

One note on this althought the crossover selection is almost idiot proof I found that my only complaint with the process so far was when I went to unlink the channels I got an warning message telling me that if I unlink the Channels it will rest all of my other selections to default (Equalizer, phase etc) ... basically as of now until they correct the software you can tune this thing by eitehr individual channels or as linked pairs of channels.... but you cannot change from one to another during the process.... BIG DOWNFALL IMO.....Also when in Bandapass mode it does not give you the option to select crossover slopes for the HP section... only lowpass. So it forces you to have mathing slopes on both ends...

The individual channel Equalizer operation is a beautiful thing.... I would recommend using a mouse on your computer rather than the track pad.... but you can simply click on the selected frequency and then using the scrolling wheel move the slider up and down.... and there is no lag time for the change to take effect.. it is real time!!! For the love of God their engineers obviously never tuned a car in a car becuase who has a mouse in a car.. one flaw I found was that on the EQ you could click on the frequency you desire but you eitehr have to hold the selection button on the touch pad and then draw it up or down becuase their engineers didnt link up the arrow keys to the software.... so much for ltuning with your ears..

In the equalizer panel you can link selected frequencies together allowing for overall leveling of harmonics etc... however one of my dissapointements to this piece was to find that the current software does not allow for a global EQ linking for that final critical tuning... Also for you parametric lovers out there... sorry.... the Bitone is strictly 31 band....

There is a ton of things I could go into as this unit has more features in it that I have time to type about them... (My son is going to be waking up from his nap here in a bit..) ...

*****Addition since original post***** ---- Time alignment.... There is notihng basic aobut this. Unlike the 701 which is set the times by ear and your good to go. Their software requires you to set and input the length from the listening position to each speaker before you can effectively start using the actual time selection portion....


NOW on to how it sounds.....

Based on my configurartion and application....

This thing sounds AWESOME!!! Understanding the technology and design of this piece led me going into this with highe expectations..... I had several hours of time to demo different music selections..... THANKS STEVE HEAD!!!

OK for you alpine lovers this unit replace my modified 701.... compared to a stock 701 it does sound 10000% better!!.... and for you 701 lovers.... NO ZIPPER NOISE!!!! Both 701 and Bitone had their own special properties and features tonally.... but the Bitone did sound better overal..!!!!

My only concern on the current version is in the digital domain portion of the bitone while using a toslink or coaxial input. The ************************************************** ************************************************** **********************************edited and removed from a public forum out of courtesey to EM as this post was originally posted on a industry only forum********************************************* **************************************** of the firmware for the processor....


Final Thoughts.......

The bitone is a exceptional piece of electronic design. The use of newly revisited technology that was once outcasted because of the high cost is a breath of fresh air. No longer is the issue of high quality vs. size an issue as the bitone offers a more than acceptable footprint for most any installtion. Once you go thru the three ring circus of updating the firmware and making sure you in fact have the current version of both the software and firmware the Bitone is a very simple and easy to use all in one processor that is priced a very reasonable and affordable price point.

Compared to the other units that are diminishing in avaibility the Bitone is definately a piece to be sought for ... however based on the current details in the current software and firmware and some of the fine tuning limitations between channels and about a half dozen other little tuning issues, I would personally wait another month to purchase one pending Audison working the bugs out of the software and the interface. IMO it seems like it was rushed out the door a little to ealry and needs a bit more testing time to make it right...

At a normal consumer level the Bitone will be a solid performer and till some competition comes out it will most certainly fly off the shelves as a perfect fit for about 95% of the industry's installed audio systems.... As far as for the critical listener, competitor, or hard core music tweeker... it has a bit more R+D in the future in regards to the software and firmware to make this something that most of us competitors and music enthusiest would be willing to go in search of. It defiantely has the dynamic, sonic and tonal qualities. Once that happens I Personally think that it has the ability to replace many of the favorite processors many of us has spent thousands of dollars on for the past many years...

In the end... I would wait..... just a few more months before running out and making that purchase... based on conversations with techs at Audison sounds like the software and firmware updates they are working on currently and scheduling for release sometime in march should solve almost all of the issues.... and bring in the last of the features needed to make this an overal great piece....

For now... ill deal with the obsticales an continue to offer my personal opinion on this piece as the new updates are released.... I think it is definately on the right path to making a statement in this industry..

For the high to mid level consumer... definately a must buy...

For the competitor or music enthusitest.. ... needs a few software and user interface updates... then this thing will be a must buy till the next newest and greatest thing comes out...



================================================== ====


One last thing.... some of you earlier in the post were bitching about the use of the JRC output devices.... well what do you expect for a $800 processor.... If its 100% audiophile you are looking for then wait till they release the higher version of the Bitone in their Theises line when they impliment other cool features and high quality audiophile grade components to another layout and version of this technology. If you choose to venture into making your own modifications... well all I can say is do so at your own risk. As Ive alredy got my warning about no warranty with the plans and parts I plan on putting in for the updated version of the unit given all of the issues are resolved.

Ill have my updated version of the board, software, and firmware tomorrow and ill put it in this weekend so Ill let all of you know if everything is good to go...... I have totaly confiedence that my system will be silent and ready for some real down to earth tuning starting this weekend... To bad it goes to the detailers for color sanding and buffing on Monday..



The black sheep has spoken.... Bash away....

[quality_sound]

Where are my velcro gloves at???

[ARCuhTEK]

Personally I enjoyed reading your review. I have neither bashed the Bit One, nor been in denial about owning a unit that has no issues.(I have yet to get it in my hands).

I was warned by a fellow forum member, when discussing the Bit One, that it WOULD have issues. So I am going into it with that mindset. For me, its just hard to read posts where people discuss issues, but really dont quote a source or link to a web page, periodical article, etc. That is not to say that their word is not credible, it is just to say that once I hear something, I like to look further into it, read about it and just learn. Okay fine....all the boys at CES had issues....where can I learn more?

For now, I see that most of the issues have been spelled out (at least to my satisfaction). Having to deal with those software issues would drive me crazy too.

As you state in your post, 95% of the installs will do just fine without all the OCD tweaking frills worked out. I would be in that 95 percentile.

You did raise one point that will affect my install.

Mine will be behind a very difficult to remove rear seat. I have one other (much more) accesible location to possibly consider for the Bit One. If, during firmware upgrades, one must disconnect all connections except USB, AND there are known issues that will likely mean more firmware updates in the near future.....I think I will choose the more accessible mounting location for now.

I had hoped that with the ability to connect to the Bit One, via laptop, that once I had the connections correct and secure, it would be a "set it and forget it" setup. Simply sit in the drivers seat with the laptop and tweak away. Maybe not so much.....

Thank you again.

[t3sn4f2]

_____________

[bikinpunk]

Fred, you weren't kidding, that was a novel!

Thanks for your input.

[Autiophile]

Isn't this sort of thing the reason companies use beta testers, to identify and resolve issues with the current implementation of a product prior to general release to consumers? Rushing to market with a product that isn't quite ready has the potential to harm the public perception of the company and that sort of damage is not easily repaired.

Glad to hear they are doing the right thing at this point, but it seems the situation could have been largely avoided by putting the unit in the hands of some qualified testers under a non-disclosure agreement to get the bugs worked out without all the issues spilling out onto the forums. Hope all works out well for the end users.

[St. Dark]

They did do some level of beta testing...probably could have stood a tad more but beta testing was done.

Keep in mind that a lot of the things that people will like or dislike are having to do with functionality: what it will do and how you go about making it do it. There will always be those of us that tune a specific way and "really wish it did THIS" versus another guy who loves how it does something. There are a few things that people have suggested (such as ability to select/deselect outputs at will for group EQ and time delay adjustment) that I think will be implemented at some point.
That's the beauty of the USB jack and the ability to upload firmware through it. Since it's a largely software driven piece, it CAN be "upgraded" after it's been sold and is in the field. Meridian and other home audio companies have done this; it's nice to see a car audio company approach things this way. And, as Larry Penn told me, chuckling, "I don't think Bit One will ever be 'done'." This being in reference to it's ability to have the software engine tailored and modified.

[BenVollmer]

Originally Posted by Autiophile

Isn't this sort of thing the reason companies use beta testers, to identify and resolve issues with the current implementation of a product prior to general release to consumers? Rushing to market with a product that isn't quite ready has the potential to harm the public perception of the company and that sort of damage is not easily repaired.

Glad to hear they are doing the right thing at this point, but it seems the situation could have been largely avoided by putting the unit in the hands of some qualified testers under a non-disclosure agreement to get the bugs worked out without all the issues spilling out onto the forums. Hope all works out well for the end users.

They actually had several units out to beta testers for a number of months. So they did... But the bugs I have seen or heard about are bugs that only affect 1% of the users...

[bikinpunk]

Originally Posted by St. Dark

That's the beauty of the USB jack and the ability to upload firmware through it. Since it's a largely software driven piece, it CAN be "upgraded" after it's been sold and is in the field. Meridian and other home audio companies have done this; it's nice to see a car audio company approach things this way. And, as Larry Penn told me, chuckling, "I don't think Bit One will ever be 'done'." This being in reference to it's ability to have the software engine tailored and modified.

That’s one thing I really like about this unit. The ability to do future updates is awesome. I just hope that there isn’t a fee associated with every update, and if there are fees at all, they’re not astronomical.


As for the complaints; I don’t really have any. If it weren’t for the horrible alt whine issues I had, I would have zero complaints.

[chad]

"New application for this technology........"

Do elaborate......

[chad]

Dupe Wipe

[Autiophile]

Originally Posted by BenVollmer

They actually had several units out to beta testers for a number of months. So they did... But the bugs I have seen or heard about are bugs that only affect 1% of the users...

I was under the impression they were recalling the units. It seems unlikely a company would recall all units if problems were limited to 1% of the users. I thought I had read higher numbers of problems but I really haven't been following this saga very closely.

[Autiophile]

Originally Posted by St. Dark

That's the beauty of the USB jack and the ability to upload firmware through it. Since it's a largely software driven piece, it CAN be "upgraded" after it's been sold and is in the field. Meridian and other home audio companies have done this; it's nice to see a car audio company approach things this way. And, as Larry Penn told me, chuckling, "I don't think Bit One will ever be 'done'." This being in reference to it's ability to have the software engine tailored and modified.

This is a nice feature for a mobile unit.

As you mentioned, nearly any reasonable home AVR, digital source, tv, etc. anymore has the ability to undergo firmware upgrades to expand feature sets, assuming the requisite hardware is in place upon initial release.

[ARCuhTEK]

I think the Bit One will be "done" one day whether it has realized the full potential of software programming or not. No company will issue a device that is the end of all ends, because it would mean their demise. Audison will probably support the Bit One with firmware/software updates for 5 years max is my guess. Actually, even that is a long time.

Take pioneer and the AVIC D3. Just purchased it two years ago....its already wiped off the shelves, no firmware upgrades are available...zelch. I went on their website three days ago just to check it out....I had to dig for a while to find anything about it.

I am not saying all companies are created equal.

[quality_sound]

What did you need for the D3? I never found a need for a firmware update on it.