Speaker Wire Questions

[MrLister]

Just a few quick things:

1) How much does the quality of speaker wire matter? I read a lot of previous posts but a lot of conflict as I'm sure some replies will be.
2) Is something like Parts-Express.comayton S213-30M 13 AWG 2C Speaker Cable 30m | speaker wire pro speaker wire pro sound speaker cable professional speaker wire suitable for car audio use? Is there a different between car audio use and home use?

Thanks

[captainobvious]

Originally Posted by MrLister

Just a few quick things:

1) How much does the quality of speaker wire matter? I read a lot of previous posts but a lot of conflict as I'm sure some replies will be.
2) Is something like Parts-Express.comayton S213-30M 13 AWG 2C Speaker Cable 30m | speaker wire pro speaker wire pro sound speaker cable professional speaker wire suitable for car audio use? Is there a different between car audio use and home use?

Thanks

Dont buy into the hype of speaker wire. Its nonsense. Get some oxygen free copper at the cheapest price with a suitable jacket.

This is great cable at an excellent price. (Yes, I use it, so I have experience)
Speaker Wire
Get the stuff in the white jacket or the clear, thats cheap. I use 12 guage for subs and 14-16 guage for speakers.

[MrLister]

So there's no difference in car audio speaker wire vs home speaker wire right? (shielding and noise wise)

One of the main reasons I ask this is because in my last install I ran the speaker wire next to the 0ga from the front of the car and I did have extra noise coming out (not engine whine but constant noise). I had to rerun the wire through the headliner to eliminate the noise.

[Austin]

Originally Posted by MrLister

So there's no difference in car audio speaker wire vs home speaker wire right? (shielding and noise wise)

One of the main reasons I ask this is because in my last install I ran the speaker wire next to the 0ga from the front of the car and I did have extra noise coming out (not engine whine but constant noise). I had to rerun the wire through the headliner to eliminate the noise.

not really. wire is wire. its all about how it is shielded but you dont really need to worry about that because its usually only rca's that get induced noise into them. so just get some wire like captianobvious said

ok you edited it so now im going to say that even with shielded wire it is still susceptible to noise. so you just need to run it away from the main power wire. and that goes for any signal/speaker wire

[TJ Mobile Audio]

Originally Posted by MrLister

Just a few quick things:

1) How much does the quality of speaker wire matter? I read a lot of previous posts but a lot of conflict as I'm sure some replies will be.
2) Is something like Parts-Express.comayton S213-30M 13 AWG 2C Speaker Cable 30m | speaker wire pro speaker wire pro sound speaker cable professional speaker wire suitable for car audio use? Is there a different between car audio use and home use?

Thanks

1) It doesn't.

2) You can use just about any wire, even lamp cord. If you run the wire past sources of electrical noise, such as an electric fuel pump, insulation could make a slight difference.

12 AWG is more than adequate for subs, 16-18 AWG is more than adequate for other speakers. Oversized wire will not hurt your installation, but understand it is only for show. If you want to see how little distortion will be caused by the impedance of your speaker wires, check this calculator: http://www.bcae1.com/images/swfs/spe...rassistant.swf

I use 10 or 12 AWG when the wire is visible, because I think it looks cool. There's no other legitimate reason, in my opinion. The gold plated terminals in the picture don't mater either, again, they were just a finishing touch.

[MrLister]

Got it, thanks. Any idea why in my last system my speaker wire was picking up noise until I moved it away from power wire? poor insulation?

[Austin]

Originally Posted by MrLister

Got it, thanks. Any idea why in my last system my speaker wire was picking up noise until I moved it away from power wire? poor insulation?

insulation cant really stop noise. unless its say several inches thick but even then it wouldnt do much. if it wants in it will get in. you just have to keep it away from sources such as a beefy power wire with a lot of amps pulsing through it.

[TJ Mobile Audio]

Originally Posted by MrLister

Got it, thanks. Any idea why in my last system my speaker wire was picking up noise until I moved it away from power wire? poor insulation?

Could be poor insulation. Your power wire carries a current, which creates magnetic flux, which can induce a current into adjacent wires... That's just geek-speak for "picking up noise". This theoretically shouldn't happen with direct current, because the magnetic flux is constant, but the voltage of your car constantly fluctuates because of your alternator, fuel pump, and other electrical loads. This makes your power wire's flux pulsate in a sense, which pulls the electrons in your adjacent wire back and forth... See the picture?

I try to keep my RCAs and speaker wires away from the power wire, and any other wires for that matter. When they have to come close, I make sure they cross perpendicularly (so it only has a short section of wire affected) and put a layer of foam in between and a few plastic wire looms around each wire, this seems to help. Also, adequately grounding your amp and your battery allows current to flow more freely and reduces the fluctuations I mentioned above.

[fastlane]

I agree with everyone else. For the most part speaker wire is speaker wire. Don't buy into the hype that fancy wire sounds better, and even if it did I doubt 99.999% of people would notice anyways. I ran 14ga, only because I had a ton left over from my HT build a couple years ago. Definitely keep power wires separate from speaker wires. If they must come together, cross them at 90 degree angles to minimize interference.

[doitor]

I use 14 guage speaker wire from monoprice.
Have you read the article where someone did an a/b test with high end speaker cable vs coat hangers "wire" and a buch of "audiophiles"?
I tried it but learned two things:

a) it's REALLY hard to techflex coat hangers.
b) Plastic ones dont really work.

LOL.

J.

[dovogod]

I've done side by side comparisons with home audio gear, and compared $100 dollar speaker cable to $350 speaker cable and the difference is actually astounding. It wasn't just me either we tested with strangers who didn't know which cable was better or what we were doing and all of them said the $350 cable was a significant change for the better. Honestly in the car though, there are so many other elements that f*** the setup as it is, chances are you could never hear it.

[fastlane]

Originally Posted by dovogod

I've done side by side comparisons with home audio gear, and compared $100 dollar speaker cable to $350 speaker cable and the difference is actually astounding. It wasn't just me either we tested with strangers who didn't know which cable was better or what we were doing and all of them said the $350 cable was a significant change for the better. Honestly in the car though, there are so many other elements that f*** the setup as it is, chances are you could never hear it.

If this is the case you're not comparing similar wire's. All things being equal, you would have to have K9 type hearing to notice any difference at all between similar gauge wire's. In my home theater setup, I've tried everything from 20 dollar speaker cables to 2500 speaker cables, and myself nor anyone else listening could tell the difference.

[TJ Mobile Audio]

Originally Posted by dovogod

I've done side by side comparisons with home audio gear, and compared $100 dollar speaker cable to $350 speaker cable and the difference is actually astounding. It wasn't just me either we tested with strangers who didn't know which cable was better or what we were doing and all of them said the $350 cable was a significant change for the better. Honestly in the car though, there are so many other elements that f*** the setup as it is, chances are you could never hear it.

Yes, but you knew what you were doing, therefore the test was not double-blind.

Originally Posted by fastlane

If this is the case you're not comparing similar wire's. All things being equal, you would have to have K9 type hearing to notice any difference at all between similar gauge wire's. In my home theater setup, I've tried everything from 20 dollar speaker cables to 2500 speaker cables, and myself nor anyone else listening could tell the difference.

x2, copper is copper. Not much to it.

[dovogod]

I said I wasn't the only one listening, the wire was audioquest type 4s to Audioquest type 8s. We used Focal 908 Profile bookshelves, Cambridge Audio 840 Integrated amp and the 840 cd player. The difference was very apparent to the people who were double blind.

[gijoe]

Originally Posted by dovogod

I said I wasn't the only one listening, the wire was audioquest type 4s to Audioquest type 8s. We used Focal 908 Profile bookshelves, Cambridge Audio 840 Integrated amp and the 840 cd player. The difference was very apparent to the people who were double blind.

Think about what speaker wire does and tell me what differences there can possibly be that would make one wire sound different than another. It's just copper.

If I replace the cord on my iron will my iron get wrinkles out faster?

[Austin]

i guess the only difference i could think of would be the purity of the copper...but does it come in different purity levels? or is copper just one purity no matter what?

[dovogod]

there is geometry of the strands in the cable, sizes of the strands, quality of copper, directionality, polarization of the cable, there are so many aspects that effect cables. good cables use different sizes of wire on the inside of the speaker wire, there is good insulation, the strands are aligned and twisted for proper geometry.

[TJ Mobile Audio]

Originally Posted by dovogod

I said I wasn't the only one listening, the wire was audioquest type 4s to Audioquest type 8s. We used Focal 908 Profile bookshelves, Cambridge Audio 840 Integrated amp and the 840 cd player. The difference was very apparent to the people who were double blind.

Double blind means neither the tester nor the test subjects know the difference between two options. It can be taken one step further, so the test subjects are not even aware that there are two options, e.g. have a computer randomly switch the wires at intervals throughout a movie or a song, and at the end ask the test subjects if they noticed any changes in sound quality.

I would venture that if I gave you two sets of speaker wires, the only difference being the color of the insulation, told you one set was a "premium brand" and then told you to demo the two wires for an audience, you would conclude that they thought the premium wire sounded better. The slightest miswording of a question, or the slightest change in body language, even a smile on your face could completely foil the test results. Were you honestly that scientific in the testing?

Originally Posted by gijoe

Think about what speaker wire does and tell me what differences there can possibly be that would make one wire sound different than another. It's just copper.

If I replace the cord on my iron will my iron get wrinkles out faster?

Depends, does it have an aluminum cord?

Originally Posted by Austin

i guess the only difference i could think of would be the purity of the copper...but does it come in different purity levels? or is copper just one purity no matter what?

The electrons will get around the impurities with no problem at all. Every speaker wire manufacturer that I've ever seen claims to use "99.9%" or "100% oxygen free copper", while neglecting the fact that oxides of copper are still conductive. If they weren't, you'd have to replace your speaker wires every 2-3 years, and my "audiophile" Marantz home speakers have copper wires inside that haven't been replaced in 30 years!

I don't think any two same-gauge pairs of copper speaker wires will make an audible difference, so long as you aren't hooking up 100 foot lengths of small-gauge wires to intentionally exaggerate the difference. If speaker wires were such "magic", then Monster Cable would own the car audio world. BTW, I used Monster Cable wire terminators on my speaker wires. I chose them because the looked pretty.

[MarkZ]

Originally Posted by dovogod

there is geometry of the strands in the cable, sizes of the strands, quality of copper, directionality, polarization of the cable, there are so many aspects that effect cables. good cables use different sizes of wire on the inside of the speaker wire, there is good insulation, the strands are aligned and twisted for proper geometry.

None of the things you mentioned have any effect within 20-20kHz.

[TREETOP]

Originally Posted by dovogod

...directionality, polarization of the cable...

[dovogod]

the other people who were listening had no idea what we were even doing, It was so significant a difference they asked what happened. we never mentioned any differences of wire or anything premium. I was with a colleague and we wanted to see if the wire sounded better, they were just innocent bystanders. I understand the skepticism. I didn't want to believe either.

[MarkZ]

Originally Posted by dovogod

the other people who were listening had no idea what we were even doing, It was so significant a difference they asked what happened. we never mentioned any differences of wire or anything premium. I was with a colleague and we wanted to see if the wire sounded better, they were just innocent bystanders. I understand the skepticism. I didn't want to believe either.

One of the wires may have been broken, causing a sharp increase in its resistance compared to the other. It's hard to break a wire in that way, but it happens.

[TJ Mobile Audio]

Originally Posted by dovogod

there is geometry of the strands in the cable, sizes of the strands, quality of copper, directionality, polarization of the cable, there are so many aspects that effect cables. good cables use different sizes of wire on the inside of the speaker wire, there is good insulation, the strands are aligned and twisted for proper geometry.

With all due respects, Roger Russell, former employee of McIntosh Loudspeaker Division, has some excellent information on these types of claims. I don't have the energy to put it as verbosely as he did: Speaker Wire Perhaps we can conclude from your test that there is such a thing as crappy speaker wire. I've seen $10,000 home theater systems running on lamp cord, and they sounded fine to me. I've done similar tests with my own equipment, and come to the opposite conclusion, but I won't claim to conclude anything scientific.

[dovogod]

it wasn't broken. whatever guy, Im sure you use lamp cord in your home theatre setup.

[jowens500]

Originally Posted by TJ Mobile Audio

With all due respects, Roger Russell, former employee of McIntosh Loudspeaker Division, has some excellent information on these types of claims. I don't have the energy to put it as verbosely as he did: Speaker Wire Perhaps we can conclude from your test that there is such a thing as crappy speaker wire. I've seen $10,000 home theater systems running on lamp cord, and they sounded fine to me. I've done similar tests with my own equipment, and come to the opposite conclusion, but I won't claim to conclude anything scientific.

I haven't seen that article in a long time. Lot of good stuff there. I've always used a pair of 18ga primary twisted together for speaker wire. I always find it funny when someone questions why I do that instead of using "good" wire, or bigger wire. I just say it's got pixie dust in it. Then they think I'm crazy and leave me alone. Oh yea, it ends up about 6 cents a foot.