Power question, what is enough?

[-=Jeff=-]

So I have posted with a couple random questions before regarding 2-way vs 3-way.. I was just going to go 3-way active, but I am still undecided.. anyway

I am trying to decide what is enough power and what is not. My old system was using 2 orion 225 HCCAs, one for woofers, one for the front.. so the front stage got 25x2.

I purchased 2 newer Amps, eD NINe.2x and eD NINe.2 both are nice, the 2x is 200x2 and will handle power for my 2 8" woofers. the NINe.2 was planned for the front stage 2x100 for the 3-way passive..

I had talked to MinivanMan a couple weeks ago about what I was trying to accomplish. Anyway it got me thinking of doing a 2-way active. which would require another amp or replacing one of the eD amps more then likely the NINe.2

So the question is what is a good power level? when I temporarily connected the NINe.2 to my front stage it really made it sound good for what it is.. (front stage is 3-way with some kludged passives) works well all drivers are the same brand/era etc. But I know that an active set-up is much more desirable and you dont' get the loss of power as you might with the passives.

SO.. If I truly decide to go to a active 2 way (with potential for an active 3-way) I was starting to search for an a/d/s ph15 which I think would be enough 50x6 so for a 2 way 100w for each midbass then 40w for the tweeters, what do I need 100w for the midbass? or would 50 be enough?

Another thought was the NINe.4 amp which matches the NINe.2x then have 65x4 which I would hoep would be enough for the front 2-way.

lots of Ideas are swirling in my head, but space is a premium (as mentioned in other posts it is an 89 Vette)

the simple solutions for right now (IMO) would be to use a set of 3-way passive X-overs with my current front stage. On the NINe.2 and call it a day then after using it for a while decide if I want to go Active.

Equipment I have sitting around may come in handy at some point as well.. along with the 2 eD amps, I have a 45x2 alpine (I forget the #) and an a/d/s PS5 (40x2). I also have a Coustic XM3 crossover that could be used

One last thought was to use the NINE.2x for the woofers, then get a a/d/s PQ10 (40x4) and use that with the PS5 for my front stage. in 2 way mode then I would have 80 to the midbass and 40 to the tweeters.

with the smaller foot print of the a/d/s amps they will hide better in some locations I have.

Sorry for the long rambling, it just way too much info here, sometimes it helps, then sometimes it confuses me even more...

[JasonH]

Why not use the 9.2 for midbass and then the alpine and ADS for the mids/highs?

[cvjoint]

you can never have too much power. there

[demon2091tb]

Well first off i'll say this, after a certain point with the power levels the only thing gained is SPL, and really from the get go thats all power gives, SPL.

If you look at a speakers specs it has its SPL of for example, 91db, for every doubling of power thats 3db, so 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, etc. So if you supply 25w to a single driver @ 4ohms, with a spl of 91db @1w, at 2w you have 94, 97, etc up to 25w, so you may be maxing out of clean power at not more than a 100-105db, which is plenty loud.

When you use the passives you talk about your going to be loosing some of that power as heat through the circuit, so 25w could theoretically end up as as little as 10.

Personally the more power the better until a given point when cost becomes a huge factor.

I ahve 160rms on my midbasses, they need a little more imo, midranges 80, perfect, tweets, 80 perfect. sub 500, it needs more imo as well. The more power the more dynamic the driver can or could be.....it may be a result of tuning, but the more power makes it feel more natural, kick drums have that real umpgh to them, and horns seem to covey alot of finess and power.

Anyway.....

[-=Jeff=-]

Originally Posted by JasonH

Why not use the 9.2 for midbass and then the alpine and ADS for the mids/highs?

I thought of that too, after I posted.. LOL

Only reason I thought of something other then the 9.2 was space.. I can fit the 2 eD amps which I may end up doing.

if I go that route, I may just leave the front speakers as they are (although I will swap in my other 3-way passives and see how it sounds) Then if it sounds like crap, I can move to the Active 2-way. I honestly really like the front speakers I have, but they are 13 years old so i am not sure how well they would match to some newer stuff.

the current front stage are speakers from Boston Acoustic 800 series (circa 1992)

[cvjoint]

I've tried 37.5, 150, and 300w on my xls and every time it sounded better even at moderate volumes. Headroom is always nice to have.

I've also noticed that drawing current will be the first obstacle. It's fairly easy to get a 2kw amp nowadays used for almost nothing off ebay, but to actually feed it is harder and more expensive.

I generally like to power my speakers 150% of the rated max rms.

[-=Jeff=-]

Originally Posted by cvjoint

I've tried 37.5, 150, and 300w on my xls and every time it sounded better even at moderate volumes. Headroom is always nice to have.

I've also noticed that drawing current will be the first obstacle. It's fairly easy to get a 2kw amp nowadays used for almost nothing off ebay, but to actually feed it is harder and more expensive.

I generally like to power my speakers 150% of the rated max rms.

Yeah I know about the feeding power, my car used to eat Alternators, but that was due to a bad GM design, I upgraded my Alt to one from a newer model so instead of 100A it is 140a. When I finish the install I will also do the 'big 3' I have read so much about.

As for now, I need to finish getting the rear enclosures sealed and tested before starting on the front.

Thanks for the all the advice so far

[MiniVanMan]

Based on our conversation, I believe you said you had mods done to your Vette which make it a tad louder? That being said, I wouldn't do anything less than 100 watts to a midbass (50 at 8 ohms).

I'd continue to use your original ED amps, and just add a small tweeter amp. I know space is at a premium so that may be problematic. If it's unfeasible, the ADS 6 channel would work great. Bridge to channels for the midbass and then run the tweeters off the last two channels. But, the ADS would not be a really viable solution for a 3 way.

For now, use the ED amps, and the ADS PS5 (for the tweeters). Then run it actively off the Coustic.

I guess what I'm trying to say is save the money for now till you get a better idea of which direction you want to go. I'm willing to bet you'll be happy with a 2 way. If it doesn't cut it, a 3-way can be down the road.

[-=Jeff=-]

Originally Posted by MiniVanMan

Based on our conversation, I believe you said you had mods done to your Vette which make it a tad louder? That being said, I wouldn't do anything less than 100 watts to a midbass (50 at 8 ohms).

I'd continue to use your original ED amps, and just add a small tweeter amp. I know space is at a premium so that may be problematic. If it's unfeasible, the ADS 6 channel would work great. Bridge to channels for the midbass and then run the tweeters off the last two channels. But, the ADS would not be a really viable solution for a 3 way.

For now, use the ED amps, and the ADS PS5 (for the tweeters). Then run it actively off the Coustic.

I guess what I'm trying to say is save the money for now till you get a better idea of which direction you want to go. I'm willing to bet you'll be happy with a 2 way. If it doesn't cut it, a 3-way can be down the road.

SOunds good.. now to pick some speakers.. I really like my PS5 but it will work nice then one channel will have static, then nice again.. not sure what the deal is there

[MiniVanMan]

Sounds like the amp is starting to go. I'm having the same problem with the fosgate running my tweeters. I just picked up an older style, brand new Memphis ST150.2 for my tweeters. There's a nice amp with a really small footprint. But, I digress, would the Alpine work??

[-=Jeff=-]

Originally Posted by MiniVanMan

Sounds like the amp is starting to go. I'm having the same problem with the Fosgate running my tweeters. I just picked up an older style, brand new Memphis ST150.2 for my tweeters. There's a nice amp with a really small footprint. But, I digress, would the Alpine work??

No I found it tonight.. The RCA connector that is soldered ot the PC board is bad, so it seems. if I wiggle it, it distorts, weiggle it again it is fine. I will try to replace it. I really like the small foot print of that PS5