two sundown e8's sq box build ported or non ported??

[IrishChamp]

I'm finally getting around to having a box put together for my sundowns that have been sitting in the garage for almost 2 years!

anyway, I'm short on space and I'd like some input on ported vs sealed boxes for these little guys.

I'm shooting for sound quality, I'm paring them up with some polk audio sr speakers in my single cab truck. I have a PA500.4 amp and a JL Audio 300.4 amp to power everything so any advice what amp configuration I should use would be awesome as well.

I previously designed a ported box but I'd really rather do sealed if possible without sacrificing sound quality and frequency range/response. I think I designed the box on bass box pro which I no longer have for some strange reason.

EDIT: my speaker guy wants to do two sealed boxes, about .35 to .4 each built on a amp mounting board.
he said he would do that, build pods for the rear speakers (I currently have two sets of polk sr's up front), rewire the whole truck and make it all look good for $500-$600.
he also said he wants to wire up the two subs in stereo if I stick with the two amps I have now. if I got my hands on a mono amp or a 5 channle amp he would wire them up 2 ohm I think.

[Sarthos]

How short on space are you? Are you short just because of the size of the vehicle, or do you need room to haul stuff inside the truck?
You might be best off with 1 sub in a ported box, depending on your restraints.

[IrishChamp]

I'm not that short on space, I have room for a ported box to hold both of them. I guess my only real question is what is the best setup for dual e8's in a SQ setup. I want to achieve chest punching accurate bass with a nice broad flat range. my last build was utilized a single sr124dvc sub with 800 rms in a sealed box, it was flat down past 20hz. A friend of mine will put together a nice box with space to mount my amps for $150 for sealed and closer to $300 for ported, maybe I'm just trying to convince my self to do a sealed box so I can have him do it (tomorrow) rather than me getting around to it who knows when.

Originally Posted by Sarthos

How short on space are you? Are you short just because of the size of the vehicle, or do you need room to haul stuff inside the truck?
You might be best off with 1 sub in a ported box, depending on your restraints.

[owen19]

i vote for sealed . i've listened to an sa8 on a ported box . its lil peaky on the 38-42ish hz range. well thats an sa8.

[IrishChamp]

On a side note is 5/8" mdf adequate for the e8's? If I go sealed I'm thinking of just buying a couple of wedges off of eBay and mounting them along with my amps on a piece of mdf behind the seats. I think it will look fairly descent if I carpet the whole thing and run the wires behind invisible style.

[IrishChamp]

Bump it up. Anyone have some first hand experience ported vs sealed and 5/8 mdf vs 3/4 mdf?

[XtremeRevolution]

Originally Posted by IrishChamp

Bump it up. Anyone have some first hand experience ported vs sealed and 5/8 mdf vs 3/4 mdf?

I have no experience with them, but you should probably model some enclosures in WinISD Pro (or ask someone like me to do it).

Also, 3/4MDF only. 5/8" is simply not strong enough to keep the walls from flexing or resonating.

[IrishChamp]

I was afraid someone would tell me 5/8 mdf was not adequate that would make this project too easy. I have winISD and I've played with it a bit, thats why I'm hesitant to go sealed, frequency response seemed to drop off too quickly from what I saw.
I previously had a copy of bass box pro 6 on my computer but lost it during a re install, I really liked that program as it seemed to go into more detail about build plans that I could follow simply hand to someone else.

here are the measurements I'm working with:
bottom: 8" EDIT: this is actually more like 8.5 so I'm assuming I'll need to make the box about 7 to 7.5"
heigth: 18.5"EDITED
top: 3.5" EDIT: if I come up 10" there is about 6.5" of clearance, so I'm thinking the box needs to be 5 to 5.5"
length: 56"
NOTE: bottom and top measurements put the box about .5 inches from the seat back, I'm assuming thats not enough space for the woofer to be mounted and excursion.

other items I need to find room for, either above the box, between two boxes or possible below the seat.
Polk Amp: 18"x10.5"x2.5"
JBL Amp: 13.5"x9"x2.5"
Xovers x2: 6.5"x4.75"x1.75"
Destribution Block: 5"x3.5"x2"

I'd like to build the box onto a backing plate thats 17" tall and 56" wide
amps should be mounted on the passenger side or above the box if possible for ease of access to adjustments. I also need to take into account space for wire to exit amps and possibly go behind the backing board but with my depth being so little I don't know if I can spare space for anything other than speaker wires.

if you feel like modeling something taking into account the items listed that would be awesome but if not no worries

Originally Posted by XtremeRevolution

I have no experience with them, but you should probably model some enclosures in WinISD Pro (or ask someone like me to do it).

Also, 3/4MDF only. 5/8" is simply not strong enough to keep the walls from flexing or resonating.

[IrishChamp]

I found my bass box 6 pro copy, from looking over the graphs a sealed box just doesn't seem to have a good curve. A ported enclosure per suncoasts specs has a little peak but seems to have a nice flat response from 27ish to 70ish.
The port data seems strange though, half the time the length it states is crazy long.

[Audiophyle]

I have not played with the Sundown 8's, but I have played with an AP Epic 8 & several of the orphan 8's from SSA's store which are pretty similar.

I prefer ported myself, and have had great results doing so. With a very low tuning freq the FR is pretty smooth & the overall output is mind blowing. Ive only run 1 sub at a time, get way more bass than I need, and people had to see it to believe it was "just an 8". I think 1 ported would yield more output & much lower extension than a pair sealed could offer, but it never hurts to try.

I also use 5/8 mdf on these boxes, because space to me is a premium. The difference in internal volume between 5/8 & 3/4 MDF is worth the little extra bracing you need when space is tight. You have to build smart though, like a double thick baffle face for mounting the subs, and brace faces because they are the most prone to flexing. I have yet to have any issues from using the thinner wood, but then again I have taken several structural design courses (Arch Grad Student) which kinda takes the guess work out. lol
The boxes I end up building are generally 1/3 air chamber & 2/3 porting due to the low tuning & tiny airspace, so most of the largest faces have multiple baffles already bracing them (the port walls), leaving very little left to brace. I am also talking 135+db single sub output, these are not quiet setups.

[IrishChamp]

THANKS! I'd love to see some of your boxes or designs. I think I have a design figured out.
I think I can even get away with 3/4 mdf.
My plan:
width= 36 inches
height= 18.5 inches
bottom depth= 7 inches
top depth= 3.5 inches
port length= 25 inches
port height= 4 inches
port width= 3 inches
I'll use the floor and back wall of the box for two of the port walls so if I use 3/4 mdf and select of 0.375 I think that accounts for the port only having two walls in the box.
Anyway, net area should be 1.255
that also accounts for 32 2"x.75"x.75" braces

I'm way confused though because small changes some times make bass box pro freak out, for example, if I mess with the amount of acoustic material in the box port length triples and doesn't go back to the original # even after changing it back????
I hope I got this right, I'll cross reference it with another calculator to make sure.
now I just need to get my hands on a table saw
that will leave me 20 inches on one side to place one amp and the x overs, the other amp can go under the seat.

Originally Posted by Audiophyle

I have not played with the Sundown 8's, but I have played with an AP Epic 8 & several of the orphan 8's from SSA's store which are pretty similar.

I prefer ported myself, and have had great results doing so. With a very low tuning freq the FR is pretty smooth & the overall output is mind blowing. Ive only run 1 sub at a time, get way more bass than I need, and people had to see it to believe it was "just an 8". I think 1 ported would yield more output & much lower extension than a pair sealed could offer, but it never hurts to try.

I also use 5/8 mdf on these boxes, because space to me is a premium. The difference in internal volume between 5/8 & 3/4 MDF is worth the little extra bracing you need when space is tight. You have to build smart though, like a double thick baffle face for mounting the subs, and brace faces because they are the most prone to flexing. I have yet to have any issues from using the thinner wood, but then again I have taken several structural design courses (Arch Grad Student) which kinda takes the guess work out. lol
The boxes I end up building are generally 1/3 air chamber & 2/3 porting due to the low tuning & tiny airspace, so most of the largest faces have multiple baffles already bracing them (the port walls), leaving very little left to brace. I am also talking 135+db single sub output, these are not quiet setups.

[kkreit01]

I used 1 E8 sealed in the back of my Sport Trac (when I had it). It did very well for an 8. I went sealed due to space, and ease of box build. I later switched to a 12" shallow Earthquake. The Earthquake went deeper and louder, but didn't sound near as musical (tight).

[cubdenno]

My son ran 4 of them in his car. They were installed in a PWK designed enclosure. ported, dual chamber (2 subs in each chamber) tuned to 35 hertz each chamber was 1.6 cube.

Was designed more for audible loudness than sq so in your case tune a bit lower to more closely match your cabin gain slope.

[IrishChamp]

how was the frequency range on the e8 sealed?
how many watts were you putting to it and what size was the enclosure?

Originally Posted by kkreit01

I used 1 E8 sealed in the back of my Sport Trac (when I had it). It did very well for an 8. I went sealed due to space, and ease of box build. I later switched to a 12" shallow Earthquake. The Earthquake went deeper and louder, but didn't sound near as musical (tight).

[IrishChamp]

Well I've made changes again, I think I'm going to go with some sort of aero port. Bass box pro was improperly calculating the net volume somehow and It turns out I just don't have room for a port that takes up .35 cubic ft. Also, the frequency response seems better with the modified design and the f3 is more on target.
Would one 3" wide port be adequate to keep wind noise down for nice sq?
Where does everyone get good quality aero style ports?

[IrishChamp]

Another quick q. Approx how much volume does two e8's take up, I think bass box pro is incorrect here too, it's actually showing a negative very small #, something like -.000002

[UMWDawg92]

V.1s or V.2s? there is a big difference in specs between the two... And either way I'd go ported, v.1s .6 cubes per sub tuned to 30hz and v.2s you have to go pretty large to get a nice flat curve ~1 cube at 30hz sounds awesome and can still handle power well. The V.2s are alot tougher to hurt than v.1s

[IrishChamp]

V1 I believe, I've been using the v1 specs. Their new but a couple years old purchased used... If that makes any sense.

Originally Posted by UMWDawg92

V.1s or V.2s? there is a big difference in specs between the two... And either way I'd go ported, v.1s .6 cubes per sub tuned to 30hz and v.2s you have to go pretty large to get a nice flat curve ~1 cube at 30hz sounds awesome and can still handle power well. The V.2s are alot tougher to hurt than v.1s

[IrishChamp]

is a 3"x19" port going to provide proper port velocity for great SQ?

[newsqguy]

after talking with a friend and sundown seller, he suggested the E8's in sealed enclosure and the Sa8's ported. i'm actually in the same spot you are but i haven't bought subs yet it will either be e8's or sa8s (when they are back in stock) and ported vs sealed.

[UMWDawg92]

Yours are v1s if you've had them for that long. I have a couple of played around with both v1s and v2s and I personally prefer them ported and for a great box design go to RAM Designs - Custom Quote Ryan does awesome work

[IrishChamp]

Hm, interesting. The more I play with bassbox pro the more I like a low tuned ported box. My design is 1.17 net cubic ft tuned to 28.5 hz which achieves an almost perfectly flat FR with the F3 right at 25 where sundown states it should be. It should play down to 20hz before bottoming out although there will be a big loss in db that low and it's flat from 25ish to 100hz I believe. Now this is all on paper but it looks good.
My only task now is finding q flared port port with a 3.5 I'd to get port velocity down closer to 20m/s.

Originally Posted by newsqguy

after talking with a friend and sundown seller, he suggested the E8's in sealed enclosure and the Sa8's ported. i'm actually in the same spot you are but i haven't bought subs yet it will either be e8's or sa8s (when they are back in stock) and ported vs sealed.

[IrishChamp]

Is that quote page to quote a build they would do or just to design a box? If it's just design I have bass box pro for that.

Originally Posted by UMWDawg92

Yours are v1s if you've had them for that long. I have a couple of played around with both v1s and v2s and I personally prefer them ported and for a great box design go to RAM Designs - Custom Quote Ryan does awesome work

[UMWDawg92]

Low tuned ported and those things sound awesome... and that link is for a custom design quote, tell him what you want and give him dimensions you have to work with and he draws up a model, blue prints and a cutlist all that good stuff

[IrishChamp]

Yea, that's what I thought, the price seems reasonable too. If I didn't have bass box pro I'd be all over it. I still might do it if I can't sort out my port issues but as of now I'm going to try to design it my self. I need to find a flared port that has a 3.5" id, if I go to 4" I'll have to put a curve in the port as it needs to be 40" long.




BUMP for advice on port velocity and port size/length for a sq build. What's optimum port velocity for dual 8's in a low tuned ported box?

Originally Posted by UMWDawg92

Low tuned ported and those things sound awesome... and that link is for a custom design quote, tell him what you want and give him dimensions you have to work with and he draws up a model, blue prints and a cutlist all that good stuff