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Old 07-05-2008   #1
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Default How to design rings to accomodate a custom grill

I am in the process of making small custom kicks to accomodate a pair of Scanspeak 12m midranges. I want the ring to be barely larger than the speaker AND I want to recess mount them and place a custom grill over them to protect them.

I've seen a few examples of people wrapping ABS plastic around a MDF ring to recess the driver and make cleareance for a grill.

I get the concept but fail to see how you would "fill in" the area outside where the speaker recesses into. Does Bondo / fiberglass resin stick to abs plastic?

What are some alternatives to using abs? I was thinking MDF but fear the difference between I.D. and O.D. of the material would be too small.

Anyone with a useful link to demonstrate this please step in...

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Old 07-05-2008   #2
 
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Default Re: How to design rings to accomodate a custom grill

bondo sticks to textured abs as long as the bondo is mixed well. abs to fiberglass, thats different. i have done it in the past by drilling holes in the abs to allow a sandwich effect of the resin going through the holes and acting like nails. also if you use a staple gun to staple the fiber mat to the abs, but that has only worked on one occasion for me
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Old 07-06-2008   #3
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Default Re: How to design rings to accomodate a custom grill

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bondo sticks to textured abs as long as the bondo is mixed well. abs to fiberglass, thats different. i have done it in the past by drilling holes in the abs to allow a sandwich effect of the resin going through the holes and acting like nails. also if you use a staple gun to staple the fiber mat to the abs, but that has only worked on one occasion for me
Ok, this is along the lines of the advice I am looking for. Thanks. So abs is not much different than other grades of plastic such as Poly Pro, TPO, etc... Alternates to abs for this purpose?

Is it feasible to machine an MDF ring with 1/8" difference between I.D. and O.D.? Using a circular cutting tool that attached to a drill press to cut these rings. They are small enough for the job. The smallest ring I have made out of MDF sofar is 1/4" difference between I.D. and O.D. Seems pretty sturdy until I drill holes in it.

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Old 07-06-2008   #4
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Default Re: How to design rings to accomodate a custom grill

1/8" is too thin for MDF.

I've accidently cut it into thin strip on my table saw just shaving a large piece that I then attempted to wrap around a baffle to get this effect...but it breaks.

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Old 07-06-2008   #5
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Default Re: How to design rings to accomodate a custom grill

The original technique that you're reffering to was introduced by N.A.M.E. which had a fabrication video series in the mid 90's.

They had this stuff called water proof panel board which is a 1/8" sheet of cardboard that has a water proof coating on it.

It's actually too thick and tends to wrinkle when wrapping a smaller radius..around 5" or smaller.

I found what works best are the For Sale or Beware Of Dog signs.

Very thin, wet proof, and don't wrinkle when in tight radiuses.

Use a bead of super glue to seal the area where it meets the baffle.

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Old 07-06-2008   #6
 
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Default Re: How to design rings to accomodate a custom grill

glassman is on a better track. also hit up your local plastics shop. they usually carry plexi and thin plastics as well as resin. DON'T use lexan though
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Old 07-06-2008   #7
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Default Re: How to design rings to accomodate a custom grill

I found ABS too brittle and can crack and split when bending into tight radiuses.

I forgot to mention I double or triple up on the For Sale sign plastic.

Cutting it into straight strips can be tricky.

If you have a paper cutter/guiloteen(sic) that would be PERFECT!

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Old 07-06-2008   #8
 
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Default Re: How to design rings to accomodate a custom grill

More cool ideas.

Geo ,I just finished mine. But i ended up doing a speaker mounting ring. With another larger ring layered on top. To create the recess.
This is all grafted on to my factory [ABS] kick.
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Old 07-06-2008   #9
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Default Re: How to design rings to accomodate a custom grill

The "For Sale" sign is a great idea. Never thought of it before. Alot of you guys are throwing good idea out there. I made my first set of kick pods with what I learned from the N.A.M.E. videos back in about '92 or so. I just built on that knowledge.

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Old 07-06-2008   #10
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Default Re: How to design rings to accomodate a custom grill

Ok everyone.

I like glassman's "beware of dog" sign idea. However, I'm still failing to see how you blend this in to make it look like a finished product.

How do you treat the O.D. surface? I understand the I.D. part where the speaker actually fits into. It's just the O.D. I have problems with. If nothing sticks to plastic how do you glue cloth to it / apply filler to it to blend in the lip?

BTW: a picture is worth a thousand words.

Thanks so much for the help so far. Sorry for the delayed response, but, its my birthday weekend after all!!!

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Old 07-09-2008   #11
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Default Re: How to design rings to accomodate a custom grill

I'm too impatient and did not wait around for answers regarding the "beware of dog" strategy. Summer is half over and I have a lot more fabrication work to do before cold weather sets in.

So, here is what I decided to do but have hit a temporary road block:

Cut 1" strips of abs plastic. Started my wrap with a screw to hold it to the ring:


Slowly apply heat and bend. Heat and bend. Heat and bend. Oh shit, burned my finger! Secure the wrap to the ring with small brad nails spaced about every 2" apart:


Done heating and bending:


Secured the opposite end of the wrap to the ring using a second screw to hold it securely:


Question now. I've successfully bent the abs and have wrapped it around the mdf rings. Now, how to permanently hold it in place? More screws, adhesive? I'll probably use some silicon to seal off the seam between the two if using screws. However, if there is a decent adhesive out there that will hold to abs tight I could secure and seal in one step.

Opinions?

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Old 07-09-2008   #12
 
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Default Re: How to design rings to accomodate a custom grill

You could take a soldering gun with the right tip and melt the seam together and it should stay together.
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Old 07-09-2008   #13
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Default Re: How to design rings to accomodate a custom grill

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Originally Posted by Swampperman View Post
You could take a soldering gun with the right tip and melt the seam together and it should stay together.
Yep, that would work. But, I was able to do that with the heat gun to very satisfactory results. The seam between the ends was not my primary concern though. I'm more interested in ideas behind securing the plastic ring to the mdf. What have others done? I could simply add more wood screws, but is this necessarily the best means?

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Old 07-09-2008   #14
 
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Default Re: How to design rings to accomodate a custom grill

A good epoxy would probably bond them.
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Old 07-10-2008   #15
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Default Re: How to design rings to accomodate a custom grill

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Originally Posted by Swampperman View Post
A good epoxy would probably bond them.
My concern with epoxy is its bond to ABS plastic over time. If the bond weakens and cracks away, the pod may rattle or hum. Thus the reason I'm being so damn anal about this subject. I'm mounting a $600 pair of midranges in it. I want them to perform their best!

Perhaps with the assistance of wood screws to help preserve the bond this would not be an issue?

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Old 07-10-2008   #16
 
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Default Re: How to design rings to accomodate a custom grill

What about adding a mikshake (using resin & filler w/ short hair fiberglass) inside, after stretching fabric and glassing, that would bond the fabric,speaker ring & plastic edging

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Old 07-10-2008   #17
 
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Default Re: How to design rings to accomodate a custom grill

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What about adding a mikshake (using resin & filler w/ short hair fiberglass) inside, after stretching fabric and glassing, that would bond the fabric,speaker ring & plastic edging
fiberglass will not stick to the abs.

just do what glassman said in one of his posts, run a small bead of ca glue (superglue) on the inside seam where the abs meets the mdf and you will be fine (ca glue sticks quite well to both abs and mdf)

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Old 07-10-2008   #18
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Default Re: How to design rings to accomodate a custom grill

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Originally Posted by 96dak View Post
fiberglass will not stick to the abs.

just do what glassman said in one of his posts, run a small bead of ca glue (superglue) on the inside seam where the abs meets the mdf and you will be fine (ca glue sticks quite well to both abs and mdf)
I read glassmans comment but was just a tad bit skeptical. I figured the MDF would just soak up the glue. Maybe not!!!

Thanks,

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Old 07-10-2008   #19
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Default Re: How to design rings to accomodate a custom grill

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2167 View Post
What about adding a mikshake (using resin & filler w/ short hair fiberglass) inside, after stretching fabric and glassing, that would bond the fabric,speaker ring & plastic edging
I will be doing this with the interior seam between the resined t-shirt cloth and the abs standoff. That should beef up this region enough.

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Old 07-10-2008   #20
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Default Re: How to design rings to accomodate a custom grill

I get that with the plastic, you can make a tall, thin, lip, but was wondering why you didn't just cut the lip as a recess directly out of MDF. A little more router work, but it would remain a single piece. If thickness is a concern, stack two layers of MDF together and glue them...

I hope to start building some kicks for the very same midrange drivers in my vehicle and that was what I was planning to do...

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Old 07-10-2008   #21
 
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Default Re: How to design rings to accomodate a custom grill

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Originally Posted by shinjohn View Post
I get that with the plastic, you can make a tall, thin, lip, but was wondering why you didn't just cut the lip as a recess directly out of MDF. A little more router work, but it would remain a single piece. If thickness is a concern, stack two layers of MDF together and glue them...

I hope to start building some kicks for the very same midrange drivers in my vehicle and that was what I was planning to do...
Wouldn't the piece be to brittle at that thickness?
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Old 07-11-2008   #22
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Default Re: How to design rings to accomodate a custom grill

Quote:
Originally Posted by shinjohn View Post
I get that with the plastic, you can make a tall, thin, lip, but was wondering why you didn't just cut the lip as a recess directly out of MDF. A little more router work, but it would remain a single piece. If thickness is a concern, stack two layers of MDF together and glue them...

I hope to start building some kicks for the very same midrange drivers in my vehicle and that was what I was planning to do...
Hey SJ,

Ditching the Horns in favor of a 3-way stage?


Your recommendation is exactly what I originally wanted to do. If the whole thing was mdf I would have ZERO issues with resin or adhesives sticking to it. Adding plastic complicated things.

I cut these rings with a circle cutter that bolts onto a drill press, not a router. Up until a few days ago I did not have a small router (wife bought me one for my birthday). However, I still could not use the brand new router since I don't have a Jasper jig thingamabobby (my wife bought the wrong one). I need to find time to get to the store and exchange it

I could have cut two different rings and glued them together using the circle cutter. However, the top ring, the one that forms the lip, would only be 1/8" thick. Numerous people mentioned it would be nearly impossible to pull this off without the mdf cracking apart so I did not waste the time trying it.

Good luck with your project. Let us know how its going.

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Old 07-11-2008   #23
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Default Re: How to design rings to accomodate a custom grill

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Hey SJ,

Ditching the Horns in favor of a 3-way stage?


Your recommendation is exactly what I originally wanted to do. If the whole thing was mdf I would have ZERO issues with resin or adhesives sticking to it. Adding plastic complicated things.

I cut these rings with a circle cutter that bolts onto a drill press, not a router. Up until a few days ago I did not have a small router (wife bought me one for my birthday). However, I still could not use the brand new router since I don't have a Jasper jig thingamabobby (my wife bought the wrong one). I need to find time to get to the store and exchange it

I could have cut two different rings and glued them together using the circle cutter. However, the top ring, the one that forms the lip, would only be 1/8" thick. Numerous people mentioned it would be nearly impossible to pull this off without the mdf cracking apart so I did not waste the time trying it.

Good luck with your project. Let us know how its going.

Ge0
I've been thinking about making the top ring out of some sort of plastic/acrylic. Than doing the grill from the same thickness and material + grill cloth.
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Old 07-11-2008   #24
 
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Default Re: How to design rings to accomodate a custom grill

just make sure that when you wrap that with cloth that you run a bead of ca glue around where the t-shirt touches the abs. just glue it from the outside after wrapping it

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Old 07-11-2008   #25
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Default Re: How to design rings to accomodate a custom grill

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just make sure that when you wrap that with cloth that you run a bead of ca glue around where the t-shirt touches the abs. just glue it from the outside after wrapping it
Thanks!!! I hadn't thought of that.

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