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Old 03-19-2011   #26
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USS Enterprise View Post
Jim, thanks for being a member here. Your input as an industry professional is much appreciated.

And - you just sold one. I have been looking for a decent 8 for my wife's car. And the specs of this sub seem right up the alley. And the seller was the keyword "IB".
It'll be in the factory rear deck location of her new car, obviously reinforced to take the weight. Any estimated weight on these things, anyway?

If the sub is properly designed be be truly IB-capable, it will be awesome for many of us here in a similar situation.

I will be heading to the local dealer tomorrow and see if he can get me one when they're released.

I've also got this strong vision of 4 of these with 600 per in a low tuned (32hz, give or take) vented enclosure. Would not take up a lot of room.
May be a fun project, the cost is definitely low enough to try out....
As far as IB goes, my testing was done in a 10cube box since my Jeep is obviously not capable of IB. Anyhow, that 20x VAS so in all truth it's IB.

My preferred setup for IB was running only one coil to raise the qts a bit to get the type if car audio bass most of us like. A qts of 0.50 is a little too dry for most peoples tastes.

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Old 03-19-2011   #27
 
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Originally Posted by USS Enterprise View Post
I've also got this strong vision of 4 of these with 600 per in a low tuned (32hz, give or take) vented enclosure. Would not take up a lot of room.
May be a fun project, the cost is definitely low enough to try out....
You mean like this? Try 1.8@35hz

It's painful


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Old 03-19-2011   #28
 
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Missed your weight question earlier, they are ~ 10lbs

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Old 03-19-2011   #29
 
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Default Re: Alpine SWR-823D / 843D 8" Subwoofers

Your timing couldn't have been better. I am abig fan of alpine and used their Headunits in all of my comp vehicles. If I didn't already have a crap load of Mcintosh amps I would run alpine power as well. I am constructing an enclosure in my f-150 that sits between the front seats and the dash. I am guessing I will get between .45 and .50 cubic feet out of it. I don't have he surface area to mount anything bigger than an 8. So my question is will a pair of these work I. This small amoun of space?

Thanks in advance for your help.
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Old 03-19-2011   #30
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Default Re: Alpine SWR-823D / 843D 8" Subwoofers

Any ideas on what a frequency response would look like in that tiny little box?

This looks like it could be an awesome sub for use as an OEM replacement sub, with a bit more power going to it.
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Old 03-19-2011   #31
 
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Default Re: Alpine SWR-823D / 843D 8" Subwoofers

The amp I will be using is an Audison LRx 400.1 which is rated at 900x1 at 1 ohm so I should have enough power for a pair of 8's?
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Old 03-19-2011   #32
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Default Re: Alpine SWR-823D / 843D 8" Subwoofers

I think you would have more than enough.

It's about time Alpine re-released an 8" on NA shores.

Chris
system for sale.
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Old 03-19-2011   #33
 
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Default Re: Alpine SWR-823D / 843D 8" Subwoofers

Nice. Considering running a quad 8 setup sometime... these look great.
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Old 03-20-2011   #34
 
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Default Re: Alpine SWR-823D / 843D 8" Subwoofers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Problemhouston View Post
Your timing couldn't have been better. I am abig fan of alpine and used their Headunits in all of my comp vehicles. If I didn't already have a crap load of Mcintosh amps I would run alpine power as well. I am constructing an enclosure in my f-150 that sits between the front seats and the dash. I am guessing I will get between .45 and .50 cubic feet out of it. I don't have he surface area to mount anything bigger than an 8. So my question is will a pair of these work I. This small amoun of space?

Thanks in advance for your help.
Sealed, no problem. Vented, if you were going to run a "chimney" vent as to not take up any room, it'd be OK, basically sacrificing 2-3dB of efficiency near tuning vs. having them in the 0.5 cubes each they like. Give them at least 5in^2 of port, but I'd prefer 7in^2 each. If this is for upfront bass, go sealed and it'll be just about perfect. (in the Camaro, we ran ~.20 sealed w/ 400W RMS/sub). We paired that with 4 sealed 12s in the rear running 56Hz and down.

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Old 03-20-2011   #35
 
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Default Re: Alpine SWR-823D / 843D 8" Subwoofers

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Originally Posted by Problemhouston View Post
The amp I will be using is an Audison LRx 400.1 which is rated at 900x1 at 1 ohm so I should have enough power for a pair of 8's?
More than enough power ... but why run an amp at 1ohm? Run it at 2Ohm, where it gives enough power still and doubles it control/DF (to 100 at 2Ohms vs. 50 at 1Ohm)

I know this is a topic for a different thread, but I'd sell that and get an amp that can make power while maintaining control (damping) at 4ohms, especially in this case where you are looking to maximize SQ.

There are a few amps on the market that likely have better distortion, S/N, Damping and efficiency ... while making power without sucking gobs of current at 1ohm.

Jim

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Old 03-20-2011   #36
 
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Default Re: Alpine SWR-823D / 843D 8" Subwoofers

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Originally Posted by jim walter View Post
Yessir, no vent in the backplate means the mounting depth of 4.5" is the exact depth of the box, no clearance needed.

PS - This is Alpine, not JL (they make the W0).
This is an awesome feature, very nice for install's when space is nothing.
Sounds like theyre going to be pretty cool.
Idk if you postedbut how high will they play?
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Old 03-20-2011   #37
 
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Default Re: Alpine SWR-823D / 843D 8" Subwoofers

I'll post up the actual chart when I'm at work, but I believe the first breakup mode was well above 500Hz, iirc it was closer to 800Hz

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Old 03-20-2011   #38
 
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Default Re: Alpine SWR-823D / 843D 8" Subwoofers

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Originally Posted by Eastman474 View Post
This is an awesome feature, very nice for install's when space is nothing.
This was a lesson learned from the Thin subs ... tiny boxes and shallow mounting depths don't like to have clearance behind the backplate. Luckily on the Thins they have a 1.25" flared vent so they can be put as close to 1/8" with no compression.

It takes some work to get rid of any noise under the dustcap though, we've got 5 vents in the former and 3 more in the cone.

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Old 03-20-2011   #39
 
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Default Re: Alpine SWR-823D / 843D 8" Subwoofers

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I'll post up the actual chart when I'm at work, but I believe the first breakup mode was well above 500Hz, iirc it was closer to 800Hz
Well that would be awesome to possibly run with horns if they will play that high
Quote:
Originally Posted by jim walter View Post
This was a lesson learned from the Thin subs ... tiny boxes and shallow mounting depths don't like to have clearance behind the backplate. Luckily on the Thins they have a 1.25" flared vent so they can be put as close to 1/8" with no compression.

It takes some work to get rid of any noise under the dustcap though, we've got 5 vents in the former and 3 more in the cone.
Thats awesome, cant wait to get my hands on one to play with
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Old 04-05-2011   #40
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Default Re: Alpine SWR-823D / 843D 8" Subwoofers

Hey Jim, Just curious.

Shallow type R 12 vs (2) 8's?

Say I have 1 cft to work with, and 500-600 RMS. In an application similar to your Jeep, whats going to have better SQ or output?

Don't let my "post-count" fool you.
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Old 04-05-2011   #41
 
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Originally Posted by KENNEY View Post
Hey Jim, Just curious.

Shallow type R 12 vs (2) 8's?

Say I have 1 cft to work with, and 500-600 RMS. In an application similar to your Jeep, whats going to have better SQ or output?
It's a tough call. Having switched from two sealed t12s to 2 ported 8s in about the same overall volume. I like the sound of the sealed 12 better, it's more impactful and powerful. The 8s , even ported can almost keep up with the 12s though. Problem is, the vented box is tuned to 35Hz, way higher than I'd personally ever want ... So I'd need to try it closer to 30Hz to give a true opinion there. Output .... I'd give the nod to the T12 with maybe a sacrifice of some 30-35Hz pressure to the vented 8s, but more detail for sure. Then again... If you have 1.0 cubes ..... That's room enough for 3 sealed 8s!!! I'd go that route, even with limited power.

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Old 04-05-2011   #42
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Default Re: Alpine SWR-823D / 843D 8" Subwoofers

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It's a tough call. Having switched from two sealed t12s to 2 ported 8s in about the same overall volume. I like the sound of the sealed 12 better, it's more impactful and powerful. The 8s , even ported can almost keep up with the 12s though. Problem is, the vented box is tuned to 35Hz, way higher than I'd personally ever want ... So I'd need to try it closer to 30Hz to give a true opinion there. Output .... I'd give the nod to the T12 with maybe a sacrifice of some 30-35Hz pressure to the vented 8s, but more detail for sure. Then again... If you have 1.0 cubes ..... That's room enough for 3 sealed 8s!!! I'd go that route, even with limited power.
Hmmm.. So .33 cube would be enough room per driver? Are we talking sub-bass here?!

Don't let my "post-count" fool you.
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Old 04-05-2011   #43
 
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Default Re: Alpine SWR-823D / 843D 8" Subwoofers

Yes, they work well as subwoofers in tiny boxes ie - 0.25 sealed was my take home test box. You'll probably like to add a bit of boost at 30Hz to bring things up a bit in the low freq region .. but they will have absolutely amazing SQ in this setup. If you want a bit more extension, 0.5 cubes sealed gets a 0.707 QTC (vs. the 0.85 that we at Alpine usually spec at 0.25 cubes). Then you're back to comparing 2 8s vs. 1 T12.

Honestly .. do you have any more space than 1.0 cubes? If you could get that to fit maybe an extra 0.2 to account for a port. 1.1 cubes net w 10in^2 of port at 18" long ... and you'll be VERY happy.

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Old 04-06-2011   #44
 
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Default

You asked me.... So I went to the truck today and tried it.

PDX-M12
A) SWR-T12 in 0.67 sealed
B) 2 x SWR-823D sealed in 0.30 each

Test tracks:
Grove St Party - Waka Flaka
Send Me Someone to Love - Sade
Hot Toddie - Usher

Result:
The 8s dig every bit as low as the 12s with more efficiency and slightly more output for the same input power, however the T12 has more clean output capability given the power to drive it. SQ wise, you can hear the speed and upper end extension of the 8s clearly on Hot Toddie .... And that's saying something compared to a very well controlled underhung 12. I attribute this to the lower moving mass and super low inductance, but more so this test has really given me a new respect for that 12 that it can just about keep up with two 8s.

What would I choose? Ported 8s ... With twice that power! In all honesty, I'd be really happy with either of them. If you need to save the depth, the Thin is the ticket ... If you have the extra inch plus of depth... The 8s may be a way to save some money...or you can just add more of them

The setup


A close up shot of the excursion ... the iPhone doesn't like to take pics of the excursion .. but you can see it in the distortion of the image


Jim

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Old 04-06-2011   #45
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Default Re: Alpine SWR-823D / 843D 8" Subwoofers

Jim,
YOUR KILLING ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am going to have to change my whole setup...I HAVE to play with these..... I have 1.4 to play with in my center console.....could go a few ported or 4 sealed..... Are they shipping yet? I am supposed to get a call from my local dealer when they are in?
The new type R subs are really spectacular....I was playing with a 12" the other day and was truly impressed with output, clarity, just raw balls! WELL DONE! I am quickly coming around to re-hitch my wagon to the Alpine Band
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Old 04-06-2011   #46
 
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Default Re: Alpine SWR-823D / 843D 8" Subwoofers

Woofersetc had them on pre-order a few days ago but NOW THEY ARE IN STOCK!!!

WoofersEtc.com - SWR-823D - Alpine 8" Dual 2-Ohm Type-R Subwoofer

WoofersEtc.com - SWR-843D - Alpine 8" Dual 4-Ohm Type-R Subwoofer

1995 Honda Odyssey --- Alpine 7854 ---> RF P400-4 ---> Pioneer PRS 720 & Pioneer 10" TS-W252R (120rms lol) in .8 sealed.
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Old 04-07-2011   #47
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rexroadj View Post
Jim,
YOUR KILLING ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am going to have to change my whole setup...I HAVE to play with these..... I have 1.4 to play with in my center console.....could go a few ported or 4 sealed..... Are they shipping yet? I am supposed to get a call from my local dealer when they are in?
The new type R subs are really spectacular....I was playing with a 12" the other day and was truly impressed with output, clarity, just raw balls! WELL DONE! I am quickly coming around to re-hitch my wagon to the Alpine Band
Haha. They are officially shipping as of last week, but we are still filling backorder for another month or so.

I would always recommend buying authorized, of course.

I happy and proud to hear the kudos, there are a lot of guys here that worked really hard to overcome a lot of TR bias and pre-conception. We are confident we have made something different this go around ... And it's fun to see dealers and customers re affirm it.

I'd go two ported and and add more woofers as needed. You won't, but if you do... Seal 4 of em and smile for life

if you do this. it'll help you. some sunny day ...
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Old 04-07-2011   #48
 
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Default Re: Alpine SWR-823D / 843D 8" Subwoofers

Nice work Jim. Thanks!
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Old 04-07-2011   #49
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Default Re: Alpine SWR-823D / 843D 8" Subwoofers

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim walter View Post
You asked me.... So I went to the truck today and tried it.

PDX-M12
A) SWR-T12 in 0.67 sealed
B) 2 x SWR-823D sealed in 0.30 each

Test tracks:
Grove St Party - Waka Flaka
Send Me Someone to Love - Sade
Hot Toddie - Usher

Result:
The 8s dig every bit as low as the 12s with more efficiency and slightly more output for the same input power, however the T12 has more clean output capability given the power to drive it. SQ wise, you can hear the speed and upper end extension of the 8s clearly on Hot Toddie .... And that's saying something compared to a very well controlled underhung 12. I attribute this to the lower moving mass and super low inductance, but more so this test has really given me a new respect for that 12 that it can just about keep up with two 8s.

What would I choose? Ported 8s ... With twice that power! In all honesty, I'd be really happy with either of them. If you need to save the depth, the Thin is the ticket ... If you have the extra inch plus of depth... The 8s may be a way to save some money...or you can just add more of them

The setup


A close up shot of the excursion ... the iPhone doesn't like to take pics of the excursion .. but you can see it in the distortion of the image


Jim
WOW, Jim your the man! I really appreciate your time spent doing this. I am shocked that you said the 8's are getting as low as the 12 w/ .30 cf. That is incredible.

Don't let my "post-count" fool you.
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Old 04-07-2011   #50
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Default Re: Alpine SWR-823D / 843D 8" Subwoofers

Jim can you post the T/S parameters please?
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