Alpine SWR-823D / 843D 8" Subwoofers - Page 4 - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum

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Old 04-12-2011   #76
 
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Default Re: Alpine SWR-823D / 843D 8" Subwoofers

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Awesome!

What kind of power are you looking at for them? Try 200-400 each and if you can match my test boxes (.3 net after woofer) you'll be a very happy basshead.
m12 or sundown sax 1200d. Whichever has better clearance under the seat wins
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Old 04-12-2011   #77
 
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Originally Posted by eggyhustles View Post
m12 or sundown sax 1200d. Whichever has better clearance under the seat wins
Sounds good. I hate to be a speculator (being an enginerd, I like to test before I comment), but I'd imagine the M12 to be quite an upgrade as far as control and SQ go ... especially noticeable on a sealed 8" system. Fingers crossed hoping the M12 fits!

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Old 04-12-2011   #78
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Default Re: Alpine SWR-823D / 843D 8" Subwoofers

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Originally Posted by jim walter View Post
Sounds good. I hate to be a speculator (being an enginerd, I like to test before I comment), but I'd imagine the M12 to be quite an upgrade as far as control and SQ go ... especially noticeable on a sealed 8" system. Fingers crossed hoping the M12 fits!
REALLY....... Interesting..... I was not a fan of the original PDX's but the new ones do seem pretty great? I have unfortunately not had the chance to play with them....I think since I am such a recovering alpine (I wouldnt say hater) illiterate customer for the last decade......You should send me a 910, h800, pdx's, and some 8's I am super happy with my SPZ's but if I could fit the pro 5.25's on my dash with tweets in the a-pillars I would put 8s in my doors and 12 in the center console......Just so you can get a fair report from an unbiased source

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I like my local dealers though they have always been good to me so I like to be honorable to them!
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Old 04-13-2011   #79
 
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Default Re: Alpine SWR-823D / 843D 8" Subwoofers

What was the Xsus or Xmech figure? Did the TSP's in listed on page one come from manufacturer or a reliable source?
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Old 04-13-2011   #80
 
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Originally Posted by AudioPhill View Post
What was the Xsus or Xmech figure? Did the TSP's in listed on page one come from manufacturer or a reliable source?
The mechanical clearance is 26.34mm (spider to top plate) and 27.32mm (VC to backplate). The suspension is pretty much full lock at 25mm (>8x rest compliance) and the coil is fully out of the gap at that point. You can input a 1390W 30Hz tone and reach the mechanical clearance if you want...but it's pretty damn tough to bottom it. (Tried this myself as we were making the mech clearance needs for the upcoming grill for it)

TSP's came from the manufacturer (me), and were measured on an industry standard measurement device (used here on DIYMA as well), the KDA .... And are listed as measured. The only thing rounded up is the Xmax, listed at 14mm while the D2 measures 13.4 and the D4 measures 13.6 as the coil windings are a bit different between the two.

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Old 04-13-2011   #81
 
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Default Re: Alpine SWR-823D / 843D 8" Subwoofers

Using the TSP's posted I get 82.54 as sens that's what throws me off, I'd cover shipping to and from to get some hands on with one for testing.
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Old 04-13-2011   #82
 
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Default Re: Alpine SWR-823D / 843D 8" Subwoofers

Weird the D4 is a longer ww, usually a D2 coil is a longer ww I thought?

edit, eyes crossed
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Old 04-13-2011   #83
 
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Default Re: Alpine SWR-823D / 843D 8" Subwoofers

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Originally Posted by AudioPhill View Post
Weird the D4 is a longer ww, usually a D2 coil is a longer ww I thought?

edit, eyes crossed
The Qts listed is a tad high. A broken in 823 will have a qts closer to 0.475 rather than 0.50 (Vas will be ~1L larger too once broken in).

Here are two samples from our first lot we shipped out that I did a quick check on. Post break-in the Fs on both will drop, along with the Qts while the Vas rises. The SPL will remain as is.

D2 is usually larger OD (WW and layer count is generally fixed, you'll always have a larger cross section of wire for less resistance).
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Old 04-13-2011   #84
 
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Default Re: Alpine SWR-823D / 843D 8" Subwoofers

So the sens from the first list was a pre-break-in sens but the other parameters were post break in?

What should we expect fully broken in (rest) Fs and Qts to be? Sens cant reman, the affect of the drop in Fs should be more than the affect of the drop in Qes and raise in Vas. Once enclosed if box is built pre-break-in spec it would give you a larger spike around tuning.

I know it sounds like I'm trying to pick a fight, but in my 18 years at this, Only large changes in Qes and Vas without a very large shift in Fs allowed the driver to become more sensitive after break in. I have an Archive over 400 drivers deep of Klippel accurate tsp's and maybe 5 became more sensitive.
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Old 04-13-2011   #85
 
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Default Re: Alpine SWR-823D / 843D 8" Subwoofers

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Originally Posted by AudioPhill View Post
So the sens from the first list was a pre-break-in sens but the other parameters were post break in?

What should we expect fully broken in (rest) Fs and Qts to be? Sens cant reman, the affect of the drop in Fs should be more than the affect of the drop in Qes and raise in Vas. Once enclosed if box is built pre-break-in spec it would give you a larger spike around tuning.

I know it sounds like I'm trying to pick a fight, but in my 18 years at this, Only large changes in Qes and Vas without a very large shift in Fs allowed the driver to become more sensitive after break in. I have an Archive over 400 drivers deep of Klippel accurate tsp's and maybe 5 became more sensitive.
Doesn't sound like you're trying to pick a fight .. just being a geek

Post break in, Fs shall be between 39-41Hz, Qes ~.55-.60, Qts ~.50-.55

Here is an 823D from the QA-lot that was broken in.
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Old 04-13-2011   #86
 
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Default Re: Alpine SWR-823D / 843D 8" Subwoofers

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Originally Posted by jim walter View Post
Doesn't sound like you're trying to pick a fight .. just being a geek

Post break in, Fs shall be between 39-41Hz, Qes ~.55-.60, Qts ~.50-.55

Here is an 823D from the QA-lot that was broken in.
Am i going crazy, isn't that the same TSP's on the right in the previos image posted? Wording there made me think them to be bnib random sample pull as drivers went out for shipping?
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Old 04-13-2011   #87
 
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Page 1 are OM spec (and have an issue with Fs a bit low on the D2 it appears)

First post of klippel specs were out of the box fist mp lot

Last post was broken for 2Hrs 15Hz free air at 350w.

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Old 04-13-2011   #88
 
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Default Re: Alpine SWR-823D / 843D 8" Subwoofers

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Page 1 are OM spec (and have an issue with Fs a bit low on the D2 it appears)

First post of klippel specs were out of the box fist mp lot

Last post was broken for 2Hrs 15Hz free air at 350w.
Theres some details this geek can groove on lol. Cool.
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Old 04-13-2011   #89
 
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Default Re: Alpine SWR-823D / 843D 8" Subwoofers

Has there been any more news/work on using these as Mid Bass drivers in the doors?

I'm starting to think that an excellent affordable All Alpine system would be a pair of these in the doors, 5.75" Type R components on the dash for a 3 way front stage and 2 more of these in the back playing sub duty. Obviously it would all be tuned with an H800! Powered by 2 PDX-5's. 4CH's for Mid/Tweet. 4CH's for Mid Bass. Both Ch5's for Subs!

Come to think of it... Jim, you should have this on your website as one of the recommended builds!
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Old 04-13-2011   #90
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Default Re: Alpine SWR-823D / 843D 8" Subwoofers

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Originally Posted by AudioPhill View Post
Using the TSP's posted I get 82.54 as sens that's what throws me off, I'd cover shipping to and from to get some hands on with one for testing.
I feel that for car audio, sensitivity is not a spec that is too important.
A higher efficiency driver will need a bigger box than a lower efficiency one. Just physics.
In home audio, space is not as important as in car audio.

So I don't really look at sensitivity when choosing a subwoofer - midbass is another story.

My understanding is that sensitivity and efficiency is 2 different things...

Better understanding and explanation here

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I'll repeat it for the miliionth time : All amps do NOT sound the same ... It's astonishing to me that nobody understands this
Who knows, some might understand now
and here's another one and another <-- click on the links
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Old 04-13-2011   #91
 
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Default Re: Alpine SWR-823D / 843D 8" Subwoofers

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I feel that for car audio, sensitivity is not a spec that is too important.
A higher efficiency driver will need a bigger box than a lower efficiency one. Just physics.
In home audio, space is not as important as in car audio.

So I don't really look at sensitivity when choosing a subwoofer - midbass is another story.

My understanding is that sensitivity and efficiency is 2 different things...

Better understanding and explanation here

Kelvin
lol, When they said sens is not important, that was a companies way of selling you something fraudulently lol. As for box size, Qts and Vas determins proper enclosure volume, High Qts also indicates large box requirements and is attributed to low sensitivity. So trying to sum it up as simply as High Sens = Large enclosures, thats not always true. You can use sens to predict a drivers output, but only till the driver leaves it's 100% BL Xmax so if a driver reaches linear BL Xmax at 300 watts and isn't into a state of power compression then its simply sens + gain form power. After linearity ceases, linear gain is no longer a factor so past that point sensitivity isnt as important, but, if you plan to use a driver within its designed capabilities, sens is all thats important to know how loud a driver will get. Thats also not quite that simple, you have to figure in transfer function of its location and enclosure gains/losses, but sens is always the place to start.
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Old 04-13-2011   #92
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Default Re: Alpine SWR-823D / 843D 8" Subwoofers

Try to model a Sundown E8 v.2 D4 (calculated 81.52dB). <-- will want an enclosure as small as 0.25cuft to have a flat freq resp. in a car.
Now try to model an Helix P8 (calculated 88.74dB).
FS is pretty much the same: 44.7Hz for the Sundown and 41.6Hz for the Helix

try to get the same Fb figure for both (sealed)... Which one will want the smaller enclosure?

In a car enclosure size is important. If you don't mind fitting a coffin in your trunk, then good for you but I'd rather fit a pack of beer in mine

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I'll repeat it for the miliionth time : All amps do NOT sound the same ... It's astonishing to me that nobody understands this
Who knows, some might understand now
and here's another one and another <-- click on the links
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Old 04-13-2011   #93
 
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Default Re: Alpine SWR-823D / 843D 8" Subwoofers

Fs means lil as to a subs extension, Q will alter a subs F3 more than Fs
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Old 04-13-2011   #94
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Default Re: Alpine SWR-823D / 843D 8" Subwoofers

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Fs means lil as to a subs extension, Q will alter a subs F3 more than Fs
I know that. I put FS numbers so that you can see how the sensitivity plays regarding box size...
However you didn't answer the little question I asked you...
Quote:
Which one will want the smaller enclosure?
^ fb has to be the same

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Quote:
I'll repeat it for the miliionth time : All amps do NOT sound the same ... It's astonishing to me that nobody understands this
Who knows, some might understand now
and here's another one and another <-- click on the links
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Default Re: Alpine SWR-823D / 843D 8" Subwoofers

I currently have two of the 1023d's behind the seat of my truck in smallish sealed boxes (.4cu ea or so) but really considering these eights. The idea is two in (~.5cu) ported boxes. Do you think I will be able to get louder with these eights ported vs tens sealed? I am running about 600wrms for both subs now and will probably run the same amp. I also am unsatisfied with my low end extension in the small sealed boxes, what sort of frequency response in comparison will i be able to achieve with these bad boys.

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Old 04-13-2011   #96
 
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Default Re: Alpine SWR-823D / 843D 8" Subwoofers

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I currently have two of the 1023d's behind the seat of my truck in smallish sealed boxes (.4cu ea or so) but really considering these eights. The idea is two in (~.5cu) ported boxes. Do you think I will be able to get louder with these eights ported vs tens sealed? I am running about 600wrms for both subs now and will probably run the same amp. I also am unsatisfied with my low end extension in the small sealed boxes, what sort of frequency response in comparison will i be able to achieve with these bad boys.
I'll try it tomorrow if I can grab some free time. I know I have 1 .45 box (~0.40 with the woofer in it) ... I'll see if I can round up another. Otherwise, it'll be sealed 10 vs. ported 8 .. either way, I'll let you know.

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Default Re: Alpine SWR-823D / 843D 8" Subwoofers

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I'll try it tomorrow if I can grab some free time. I know I have 1 .45 box (~0.40 with the woofer in it) ... I'll see if I can round up another. Otherwise, it'll be sealed 10 vs. ported 8 .. either way, I'll let you know.

Jim
Jim

Could you model a pair of the D4's in .50 cubic feet ported. I would need to have the port outside the enclosure. It would have to be round but I would need to know the diameter and length. Thanks in advance
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Default Re: Alpine SWR-823D / 843D 8" Subwoofers

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Sounds good. I hate to be a speculator (being an enginerd, I like to test before I comment), but I'd imagine the M12 to be quite an upgrade as far as control and SQ go ... especially noticeable on a sealed 8" system. Fingers crossed hoping the M12 fits!
The alpine fits, so the alpine wins
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Old 04-14-2011   #99
 
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Jim

Could you model a pair of the D4's in .50 cubic feet ported. I would need to have the port outside the enclosure. It would have to be round but I would need to know the diameter and length. Thanks in advance
2.5" ID @15-17" depending on how low you'd like it to play. My test boxes are ~.55 net w a 15.5" long port. As you lose that extra .05 cubes, you'll need to up it to 16-17". The good thing with external ports is that they are easy to trim/add length to suit your tastes.

if you do this. it'll help you. some sunny day ...
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Old 04-14-2011   #100
 
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Jim

Could you model a pair of the D4's in .50 cubic feet ported. I would need to have the port outside the enclosure. It would have to be round but I would need to know the diameter and length. Thanks in advance
Wait. A pair in 0.5 shared total?

if you do this. it'll help you. some sunny day ...
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