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Old 01-08-2017   #1376
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Default Re: Helix DSP Pro - Who has info?

You need a sound card with at least 2 inputs to do loop back. I have always used an ASIO sound card. Running a Tascam 1608 currently but that's overkill for most people. I don't use REW anymore. Using SysTune and Smaart because they are more powerful and faster than REW, but you can still do this process in REW.


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Old 01-08-2017   #1377
 
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Default Re: Helix DSP Pro - Who has info?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackHHR View Post
For those that are updating the software from 3.40* to the new 4.06* with a director, we have pinned down the correct steps to make this an easy transition.



(1) Download the director software 1.60* ( delete old drivers when prompted)

(2) Download the processor software 4.06*

(3) Unplug the 8 pin director cable from the processor

(4) Update processor FRIST and save/load file via the usb at the processor

(5) Shut down system

(6) Plug director cable back into processor

(7) Power system back up

(8) Connect at the director with laptop and connect.

(9) Load/save file to processor

(10) Check the I/O Martix for channel assignment.

Thanks for the tip, I'm gonna add one more from my experience:

When I ran the update as prescribed above, it went off without a hitch. Everything was as it should be after the upgrade.

So, I turned my Car off. When I came back, the Director told me "No DSP OS loaded!" No audio.

So, I unplugged the Director, and hooked up the computer directly to the DSP.

The software got as far as the profile selection. After that, it switched between "Starting Communications" and "Switching Setup" continuously.

The red light on the DSP was blinking angrily.

So my DSP wasn't completely bricked.

I had the thought of trying the old version: 3.40a, in my case.

3.40a was able to communicate, and downgrade the firmware.

After doing that, I re-upgraded to the new release, and it worked over a few Power cycles. Encouraged, I plugged in the director again.

It seems full functionality is restored.

So the lesson learned: keep the old version of the software handy.



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Old 01-08-2017   #1378
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Default Re: Helix DSP Pro - Who has info?

Bump this back to the end of the thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackHHR View Post
For those that are updating the software from 3.40* to the new 4.06* with a director, we have pinned down the correct steps to make this an easy transition.

(1) Download the director software 1.60* ( delete old drivers when prompted)
(2) Download the processor software 4.06*
(3) Unplug the 8 pin director cable from the processor
(4) Update processor FRIST and save/load file via the usb at the processor
(5) Shut down system
(6) Plug director cable back into processor
(7) Power system back up
(8) Connect at the director with laptop and connect.
(9) Load/save file to processor
(10) Check the I/O Martix for channel assignment.

My personal experience was the I/O Matrix did NOT transfer correctly from the file we had configured for the DSP PRO MKI to the DSP PRO MKII. Same holds true for the DSP PRO MKI when upgrading to the 4.06* software.
The above is being researched and will be corrected on the back end.
Everything else transferred correctly from the old software to the new software in the new DSP PRO MKII and the DSP PRO MKI
If you guys have any questions please call us .

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Old 01-08-2017   #1379
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Default Re: Helix DSP Pro - Who has info?

I downloaded the software correctly, I followed the steps above to install the new software to the DSP without issue. Cycled system off / on. The Director shows the following message (see pic) and no way to get to the menu to upload the Director software.

Any tips to get past this?


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Old 01-08-2017   #1380
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Default Re: Helix DSP Pro - Who has info?

Do I now have to go back to installing the old version of the DSP software (so I can get into the menu of the Director), then update the Director software, then reset the DSP and reinstall the DSP software?

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Default Re: Helix DSP Pro - Who has info?

Thanks subterFUSE for the detailed guide!

Will give it a run!

Quote:
Originally Posted by subterFUSE View Post
This is how I would set up a factory source with a Helix Pro or Pro 2 DSP, and REW as my measurement software:


Step 1: Wire up your factory high level outputs into the DSP like normal.

.........

And I promise you that the auto EQ correction feature in the Audison Bit One is not doing anything CLOSE to a perfect job of leveling the signal. It does almost nothing. A manual parametric EQ like Helix has is light years beyond what Audison does.
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Old 01-11-2017   #1382
 
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Default Helix DSP Pro - Who has info?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bertholomey View Post
I downloaded the software correctly, I followed the steps above to install the new software to the DSP without issue. Cycled system off / on. The Director shows the following message (see pic) and no way to get to the menu to upload the Director software.

Any tips to get past this?
1st question: Which version of the Director firmware is currently installed? It's always good to know where you're starting from. I'd hope it's at 1.5.0, but you never know...

2nd: Did you try to run the update for the director to 1.6.0? I had some message that came up briefly as I was loading the Director Updater software. I didn't get a chance to read it as the updated software had just loaded and the Director's screen changed to its update screen.

Worst case: I've downgraded the DSP Pro firmware already (look up a few posts), and it's pretty painless. You're going to have to re-transfer your profiles anyway with the upgrade, so you've really lost nothing but time by downgrading & upgrading again.

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Old 01-11-2017   #1383
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Default Re: Helix DSP Pro - Who has info?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pariah Zero View Post
1st question: Which version of the Director firmware is currently installed? It's always good to know where you're starting from. I'd hope it's at 1.5.0, but you never know...

2nd: Did you try to run the update for the director to 1.6.0? I had some message that came up briefly as I was loading the Director Updater software. I didn't get a chance to read it as the updated software had just loaded and the Director's screen changed to its update screen.

Worst case: I've downgraded the DSP Pro firmware already (look up a few posts), and it's pretty painless. You're going to have to re-transfer your profiles anyway with the upgrade, so you've really lost nothing but time by downgrading & upgrading again.

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Thank you for the response! I spoke to Greg via telephone, but I'd like to take the opportunity to respond here to possibly get further clarification.

1) I believe I have version 1.50 on the Director firmware currently (I'm in Orlando all week, so I can't jump in and verify).

2) I downloaded the 4.06a software on to the DSP first.......when I did that, I got the error message on the Director screen that I posted....therefore, I wasn't able to download the Director software.

One of the things that Greg stated was that the old drivers that were previously downloaded to run 1.50 would not work with 1.60........when I downloaded 1.60, I was instructed initially to 'uncheck' the boxes so the new drivers would not download - causing conflicts. I deleted the director download and re-downloaded it with the accompanying drivers.

At this point, when I get home - I still don't have the option to go into the menu of the Director to choose to update it......so I'm thinking that I'll need to reset the DSP, re-install the 3.40a to be able to get to the Director menu, then do the Director update, then do the DSP update to 4.07a.

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Old 01-12-2017   #1384
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Default Re: Helix DSP Pro - Who has info?

^I had similar issues. What a flustercuck, I feel your pain.

I realize that these are very complicated electronic devices, and boutique/niche devices at that, but it sure would be nice if the entire update process was a bit more integrated and simplified, because otherwise these are spectacular units! I love my Helix DSP PRO's, but so far I can't say that I've been a fan of the Director remote.

Got to pay to play, I suppose.
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Old 01-12-2017   #1385
 
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Default Re: Helix DSP Pro - Who has info?

This may have been answered before, but the thread is up to almost 1400 replies now from start to end.

But does the Helix accept a volume controlled/attenuated optical/digital signal?

So that you for instance could use like a Clarion NX706 or Sony RSX-GS9 head unit and control the volume from the H/U? Or do you have to use the Director to control the volume in such a setup?
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Old 01-12-2017   #1386
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Default Re: Helix DSP Pro - Who has info?

The Helix will accept a variable digital input, like you see from a mobridge DA1 preamp. In this case you can use the optical input and control volume on the source device.

However, to correct your post above, the Sony RSXGS9 does not have a variable optical digital output. The level of the Sony digital out is fixed and very loud. You must have a DSP volume controller like the Director, UR or a custom potentiometer to control the volume at the DSP if you want to use the Sony GS9.

Also, if you do have a Sony GS9, the preferred method of connection is analog. It has spectacular DA converters in it and the analog quality is superb. Plus, you can't play DSD hi res files over the optical output at native resolution.


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Old 01-12-2017   #1387
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Default Re: Helix DSP Pro - Who has info?

Quote:
Originally Posted by subterFUSE View Post
The Helix will accept a variable digital input, like you see from a mobridge DA1 preamp. In this case you can use the optical input and control volume on the source device.

However, to correct your post above, the Sony RSXGS9 does not have a variable optical digital output. The level of the Sony digital out is fixed and very loud. You must have a DSP volume controller like the Director, UR or a custom potentiometer to control the volume at the DSP if you want to use the Sony GS9.

Also, if you do have a Sony GS9, the preferred method of connection is analog. It has spectacular DA converters in it and the analog quality is superb. Plus, you can't play DSD hi res files over the optical output at native resolution.


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Old 01-12-2017   #1388
 
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Default Re: Helix DSP Pro - Who has info?

Ah, thanks for a great and informative answer

Did not know that about the Sony, my current setup is a Pioneer 80PRS, using a single (L+R) RCA cable to a P SIX DSP amp. But the DSP and input sections has so much in common with the DSP Pro that I might just as well ask in this thread.

Not to many current H/U with optical digital out these days. The Sony and Clarion mentioned, and also a couple of Alpine 2DINs. Not sure if the digital output is fixed on the Clarion and Alpines though?

I'm guessing the Clarion can output both hires/dsd audio through the digital out since its the front end of the all digital (as they say) Clarion system. And possibly also control the volume on the digital out?
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Old 01-12-2017   #1389
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Default Re: Helix DSP Pro - Who has info?

Most optical digital outputs are fixed.


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Old 01-12-2017   #1390
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Default Re: Helix DSP Pro - Who has info?

Quote:
Originally Posted by t3sn4f2 View Post
__x2
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I've had a couple people tell me the Sony has variable optical output which isn't true. Not sure who started that rumor.

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Old 01-12-2017   #1391
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Default Re: Helix DSP Pro - Who has info?

Quote:
Originally Posted by haakono View Post
Not sure if the digital output is fixed on the Clarion and Alpines though?
If you're talking about the Alpine 957HD unit I can tell you it is fixed optical output. Once you 'engage' the Optical output through the settings the unit's volume buttons no longer work. Meaning, you can push the volume buttons on the unit or the remote and nothing will happen.

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Default Re: Helix DSP Pro - Who has info?

Thanks guys

Also, very likely that the Clarion is the same, I see now that the full digital system has its own "director-like" control unit with volume control:
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Default Re: Helix DSP Pro - Who has info?

The clarion is variable. So with that unit (nx706) you can control digital volume at the headunit.

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Old 01-12-2017   #1394
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Default Re: Helix DSP Pro - Who has info?

Quote:
Originally Posted by haakono View Post
....

Not to many current H/U with optical digital out these days. The Sony and Clarion mentioned, and also a couple of Alpine 2DINs. Not sure if the digital output is fixed on the Clarion and Alpines though?

I'm guessing the Clarion can output both hires/dsd audio through the digital out since its the front end of the all digital (as they say) Clarion system. And possibly also control the volume on the digital out?
As Erin stated, the digital Toslink Optical output of the Clarion NX706 and the new NX807 (basically a NX706 with the addition of Apple's CarPlay) can be switched in the Menu to either Fixed or Variable digital output.

The Clarions will only play up to 24 Bit/96kHz files in PCM formats, not native DSD. DSD files would have to be converted to PCM WAV or FLAC in order to be played. AFAIK, the Clarions will not play DoP on the fly...

Some Hi-Res players can play DSD, but not natively, meaning not without internal conversion. This is called "DoP" (DSD over PCM) and these units convert the DSD 1-bit data stream to multi-bit PCM internally "on the fly" as the file is being played. Hi-Res players such as the Sony RSX-G9 will play DSD files "natively", meaning that the DSD 1-bit data stream is not converted to PCM before the DAC, but the special DAC does the conversion directly from 1-bit DSD to Analog. If you have spent extra money to purchase DSD files rather than Hi-Res 24- or 32-bit PCM WAV or FLAC files, it is preferable to use a player that plays "native DSD", not DoP, otherwise you have lost any advantage of using DSD.

The Sony RSX-GS9 has a Fixed, full level Toslink Optical Output. It will play native DSD but only via its built-in DAC using the Analog outputs. The Toslink Optical will only output digitally in PCM format.

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Old 01-15-2017   #1395
 
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Default Re: Helix DSP Pro - Who has info?

Can I check if I understand the URC-2A feature correctly. If I configure one of the vol knob to subwoofer vol. It basically allows me to vary any output that has been configured as subwoofer on the helix? So the knob being in the middle at 12 o'clock is parity and what has been set in the helix. And moving it clockwise will increase the volume/gain of just the subwoofer channels?
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Default Re: Helix DSP Pro - Who has info?

Quote:
Originally Posted by subterFUSE View Post
The Helix will accept a variable digital input, like you see from a mobridge DA1 preamp. In this case you can use the optical input and control volume on the source device.

However, to correct your post above, the Sony RSXGS9 does not have a variable optical digital output. The level of the Sony digital out is fixed and very loud. You must have a DSP volume controller like the Director, UR or a custom potentiometer to control the volume at the DSP if you want to use the Sony GS9.

Also, if you do have a Sony GS9, the preferred method of connection is analog. It has spectacular DA converters in it and the analog quality is superb. Plus, you can't play DSD hi res files over the optical output at native resolution.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbfoto View Post
As Erin stated, the digital Toslink Optical output of the Clarion NX706 and the new NX807 (basically a NX706 with the addition of Apple's CarPlay) can be switched in the Menu to either Fixed or Variable digital output.

The Clarions will only play up to 24 Bit/96kHz files in PCM formats, not native DSD. DSD files would have to be converted to PCM WAV or FLAC in order to be played. AFAIK, the Clarions will not play DoP on the fly...

Some Hi-Res players can play DSD, but not natively, meaning not without internal conversion. This is called "DoP" (DSD over PCM) and these units convert the DSD 1-bit data stream to multi-bit PCM internally "on the fly" as the file is being played. Hi-Res players such as the Sony RSX-G9 will play DSD files "natively", meaning that the DSD 1-bit data stream is not converted to PCM before the DAC, but the special DAC does the conversion directly from 1-bit DSD to Analog. If you have spent extra money to purchase DSD files rather than Hi-Res 24- or 32-bit PCM WAV or FLAC files, it is preferable to use a player that plays "native DSD", not DoP, otherwise you have lost any advantage of using DSD.

The Sony RSX-GS9 has a Fixed, full level Toslink Optical Output. It will play native DSD but only via its built-in DAC using the Analog outputs. The Toslink Optical will only output digitally in PCM format.

I wonder which one have the better quality analog circuit (output),
the Sony RSX-GS9 or the Helix DSP Pro?
Because the Helix DSP Pro for sure have more processing Power (DSP) than the Sony but in the end, it still have to be converted to analog output to feed the Power amp...
and if the Helix DSP Pro have less quality analog circuit (output) compare to the Sony then the Analog sound quality will degrade...
Is this assumption correct?
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Old 01-18-2017   #1397
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Default Helix DSP Pro - Who has info?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW Alpina View Post
I wonder which one have the better quality analog circuit (output),
the Sony RSX-GS9 or the Helix DSP Pro?
Because the Helix DSP Pro for sure have more processing Power (DSP) than the Sony but in the end, it still have to be converted to analog output to feed the Power amp...
and if the Helix DSP Pro have less quality analog circuit (output) compare to the Sony then the Analog sound quality will degrade...
Is this assumption correct?


No. It's an incorrect assumption.

In all likelihood, a digital to digital transfer would degrade more due to jitter. Plus, optical digital cables are very flaky. They are considered the worst type of digital connection. Home audiophiles rarely use optical. Coax digital is greatly preferred.

The DAC on both devices are very, very good. The Sony DAC is probably better, but the difference would be marginal.

A number of top competitors on the SQ Competition circuit will all agree. Analog is the way to use the Sony GS9. It just sounds better. Talk to the people running that deck. Trust me, the majority of them (if not all) will be going analog.

This idea that digital is always best is simply not true and needs to be questioned.

Perfect example, look at the Audison Bit One and the amps with the AV Bit Input. So many fanboys are convinced that because the signal stays digital all the way to the amp that this will magically make the sound better. But the truth is those amps don't sound as good compared to other amps with analog inputs. Audison also ran into problems with jitter on the optical input of the Bit One and they had to release a Sample Frequency Converter device to go in front of the DSP to solve the problem.

Bottom line, there are factors that are so much more critical than avoiding an extra DAC/ADC cycle.

If sound quality is REALLY important to you, then get the op amps upgraded on the DSP and your amps. Upgrade the rail caps and get the bias adjusted. These upgrades make noticeable improvements that far outweigh DAC use.

If you still can't bring yourself to shake the "digital is always best" mentality, then I would suggest waiting for the new HEC USB sound card module for the Helix Pro and Pro MK2. It will feature an asynchronous sound card that will prevent jitter. This would be a huge savings over the Sony GS9 (which quite frankly is a waste of money if going digital).

The HEC module would be all digital, direct from the media player over USB, with an asynchronous DAC inside the DSP. No optical cable. No chain of digital devices converting sample rates or causing jitter.

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Last edited by subterFUSE; 01-18-2017 at 04:02 AM..
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Default Re: Helix DSP Pro - Who has info?

Quote:
Originally Posted by subterFUSE View Post
No. It's an incorrect assumption.

In all likelihood, a digital to digital transfer would degrade more due to jitter. Plus, optical digital cables are very flaky. They are considered the worst type of digital connection. Home audiophiles rarely use optical. Coax digital is greatly preferred.

The DAC on both devices are very, very good. The Sony DAC is probably better, but the difference would be marginal.

A number of top competitors on the SQ Competition circuit will all agree. Analog is the way to use the Sony GS9. It just sounds better. Talk to the people running that deck. Trust me, the majority of them (if not all) will be going analog.

This idea that digital is always best is simply not true and needs to be questioned.

Perfect example, look at the Audison Bit One and the amps with the AV Bit Input. So many fanboys are convinced that because the signal stays digital all the way to the amp that this will magically make the sound better. But the truth is those amps don't sound as good compared to other amps with analog inputs. Audison also ran into problems with jitter on the optical input of the Bit One and they had to release a Sample Frequency Converter device to go in front of the DSP to solve the problem.

Bottom line, there are factors that are so much more critical than avoiding an extra DAC/ADC cycle.

If sound quality is REALLY important to you, then get the op amps upgraded on the DSP and your amps. Upgrade the rail caps and get the bias adjusted. These upgrades make noticeable improvements that far outweigh DAC use.

If you still can't bring yourself to shake the "digital is always best" mentality, then I would suggest waiting for the new HEC USB sound card module for the Helix Pro and Pro MK2. It will feature an asynchronous sound card that will prevent jitter. This would be a huge savings over the Sony GS9 (which quite frankly is a waste of money if going digital).

The HEC module would be all digital, direct from the media player over USB, with an asynchronous DAC inside the DSP. No optical cable. No chain of digital devices converting sample rates or causing jitter.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Actually I also will use the analog output of the Sony RSX-GS9 to feed an analog Zapco Crossover for my 2 way front active system...

and not using any DSP... at least for now

because eventhough it might not sound as "accurate" as a system that use DSP, but I think it will sound more natural and more "analog"...

My Sony RSX-GS9 suppose to arrive to my home in few hours, I am so excited
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Default Re: Helix DSP Pro - Who has info?

Quick question about the HEC BT....

Do you have to switch between sources if using the HEC BT and a separate analog signal? Or does the BT signal take precedence like the optical signal does (if using optical).

Because if the BT signal takes precedence like the optical signal does, then one shouldn't need a remote to switch between sources. Just simply turn off the BT and the head unit would be back as the source.

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Default Re: Helix DSP Pro - Who has info?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brumledb View Post
Quick question about the HEC BT....

Do you have to switch between sources if using the HEC BT and a separate analog signal? Or does the BT signal take precedence like the optical signal does (if using optical).

Because if the BT signal takes precedence like the optical signal does, then one shouldn't need a remote to switch between sources. Just simply turn off the BT and the head unit would be back as the source.
Seems you answered your own question. Set BT to have priority .

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