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Old 12-27-2016   #26
 
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

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Originally Posted by valow View Post
So I think I'm going JL FiX 82 from the H/U, then to a Helix. I like the EQ and tunability of it. Thoughts?

Thanks again!
FiX works great with the Sony Systems. I recommend NOT using the factory subwoofer signal from the Sony amp. They tend to significantly clip at moderate volume and that gets summed into the system and can lead to poor sound quality and potential damaged tweeters. The front doors are full range, so you can get all you need there.

Run the midrange into inputs 1/2, high frequency into 3/4 and call it a day.

You will most likely need the FiX-LSA-4 load sensing adaptors. We have received word from many dealers that the amp displays high frequency noise or muting if it doesn't "detect a factory load". The FiX-LSA-4 tricks it into seeing a factory speaker.

I don't think the output of the head unit is variable and I believe it's all CAN controlled, so you will need to grab your signals after the head unit. If using the OEM steering wheel controls you will be subjected to volume dependent equalization. If you don't want that simply use a DRC-100 to control the output from the FiX, or you can control the output from what ever DSP you are planning on using. A FiX 82 optically into a TwK D8 is a pretty powerful and cost effective integration and system tuning set up!

Let me know if you have any other questions!

Rob

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Old 12-27-2016   #27
 
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

Wow Rob, thanks. It sounds like you have some pretty heavy experience with the Sony set ups. If you're seeing good results with the FiX and TwK combo I'm happy to go that route. One thing I wonder and will research is if the FiX uses a harness to tap in to the headunit or if I'm inserting between the headunit and amp manually?

Thanks again, great idea.
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Old 12-27-2016   #28
 
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

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Wow Rob, thanks. It sounds like you have some pretty heavy experience with the Sony set ups. If you're seeing good results with the FiX and TwK combo I'm happy to go that route. One thing I wonder and will research is if the FiX uses a harness to tap in to the headunit or if I'm inserting between the headunit and amp manually?

Thanks again, great idea.
You would tap into the signal post-amplifier (amp outputs to the speakers). All you need to do is tap into the amplifiers midrange and tweeter outputs for the front stage.

You can find more install info on FiX and TwK in our Help Center:
FiX & TwK Articles

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Old 12-28-2016   #29
 
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

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You would tap into the signal post-amplifier (amp outputs to the speakers). All you need to do is tap into the amplifiers midrange and tweeter outputs for the front stage.

You can find more install info on FiX and TwK in our Help Center:
FiX & TwK Articles
Rob - you just gained a customer. Once my store credit hits I'll purchase what's in the cart. FiX 82, LS4, and TwK D8. Can't wait to hear the difference and play with Tün!
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Old 12-28-2016   #30
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

Please come back with your impressions after it's all installed and setup.
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Old 12-28-2016   #31
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

Regardless of what product you use I would recommend taking advantage of the high level inputs. In your case place the Fix82 as close to the DSP as possible. This limits the length of RCA cables and the ability to pick up noise in the system.

Also if you plan to use the factory remote Wire understand that it is a 5v remote. I had originally installed an audio Control piece and it never worked well with the sensing circuit. I ended up installing a 5v relay that activated a 12v relay. Results were much better IMO. I cant speak for the JL sensing circuit but as far as the Rockford and audio Control it worked much better.
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Old 12-29-2016   #32
 
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

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Regardless of what product you use I would recommend taking advantage of the high level inputs. In your case place the Fix82 as close to the DSP as possible. This limits the length of RCA cables and the ability to pick up noise in the system.

Also if you plan to use the factory remote Wire understand that it is a 5v remote. I had originally installed an audio Control piece and it never worked well with the sensing circuit. I ended up installing a 5v relay that activated a 12v relay. Results were much better IMO. I cant speak for the JL sensing circuit but as far as the Rockford and audio Control it worked much better.
With the FiX 82 and TwK D8 you can go optical using a TOSLINK cable and not even have to worry about unwanted noise entering the system between the two.

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Old 12-29-2016   #33
 
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

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Rob - you just gained a customer. Once my store credit hits I'll purchase what's in the cart. FiX 82, LS4, and TwK D8. Can't wait to hear the difference and play with Tün!
Awesome! Glad I could help!

Make sure to order a TOSLINK cable to connect the FiX 82 and TwK D8. The D8 doesn't have any analog inputs, it's a single Optical input.

I use an inexpensive cable I got off of Amazon in my car.

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Old 12-31-2016   #34
 
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

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Awesome! Glad I could help!

Make sure to order a TOSLINK cable to connect the FiX 82 and TwK D8. The D8 doesn't have any analog inputs, it's a single Optical input.

I use an inexpensive cable I got off of Amazon in my car.
Order is going in on Monday, I just need to call Crutchfield. Any guidance on the remote turn on aspect? Switched or constant? I just got home from vacation and was trying to respond and check in as time permitted.

As I said, you gained a customer - I can't wait to get this rolling.

Thanks!

Edit: I just dug further on the docs you sent (zendesk link, great tool btw) - I'll dig there.

Thanks again

Last edited by valow; 12-31-2016 at 09:02 PM..
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Old 12-31-2016   #35
 
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

I used the remote output from my head unit. The DC offset wasn't really reliable, I guess that the DC voltage doesn't change much in my Honda. I had issues with other components that would not turn on with the DC offset.

The signal sensing also didn't work for me because the out put from the H/U is very low. When the GF would turn down the radio volume to talk on the phone, the system would shut down. But this may work for you because you're tapping into the amp out puts.

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Old 01-01-2017   #36
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

The issue with the Ford Sony system is that the remote is a 5v output unless you have the Raptor model were you can tap into the. Uplifter switches.

All that is required is a 5v relay to signal a 12v relay. Not that big of an issue as long as you tap into the correct wire.

The Sony system and the Honda's are completely different animals.
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Old 01-01-2017   #37
 
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

Ok I'm confused? The FiX remote in is not the Power source for the unit, it's just the signal to "turn on". For me, I used the remote out for the disconnected factory amp and ran a fused constant 12v source right from the distribution block.

Now I need to know why a relay is needed? What did I do wrong?

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Old 01-01-2017   #38
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

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Ok I'm confused? The FiX remote in is not the Power source for the unit, it's just the signal to "turn on". For me, I used the remote out for the disconnected factory amp and ran a fused constant 12v source right from the distribution block.

Now I need to know why a relay is needed? What did I do wrong?
Again, I am speaking to the original posters question about integrating with the Ford Sony system. Remote wires are typically 12v, the Ford Sony system uses a 5v. The Honda system may have a 12v remote. I dont have any experience with it so I cant say. To use the 5v remote supplied by the Ford Sony system you have to use it to trigger a separate remote with a 12v source.

If yours is working then I would say you did it right
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Old 01-02-2017   #39
 
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

Aha, I'm glad a Ford guy helped him. He would have been set back a few weeks listening to me!

Stock HU, JL FiX 82, CDT DRT 26S Twt, CDT ES-02 Wideband for Mid, CDT-ES-06+ Mid Bass, JL HD-600, Hertz HDP4....so far
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Old 01-02-2017   #40
 
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

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Aha, I'm glad a Ford guy helped him. He would have been set back a few weeks listening to me!
Ha! Well, I know my intention is to basically just use an add a circuit and run to the DC switched input on the FiX, then I can remote out to the TwK and be fine. 10A fuses should suffice and there are spares inside the passenger compartment fuse panel. The only confusion I have is the 12v Battery connection this thing also has - I'm not sure if I need both?
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Old 01-02-2017   #41
 
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

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Again, I am speaking to the original posters question about integrating with the Ford Sony system. Remote wires are typically 12v, the Ford Sony system uses a 5v. The Honda system may have a 12v remote. I dont have any experience with it so I cant say. To use the 5v remote supplied by the Ford Sony system you have to use it to trigger a separate remote with a 12v source.

If yours is working then I would say you did it right
To this point, I'll use remote turn on from the fuse box, like I said above. I'm not tapping in to the factory amp to do this. The LSA-4 that I also purchased will prevent anything from muting and make sure it has signal.
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Old 01-02-2017   #42
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

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To this point, I'll use remote turn on from the fuse box, like I said above. I'm not tapping in to the factory amp to do this. The LSA-4 that I also purchased will prevent anything from muting and make sure it has signal.
I am pretty sure the LSA-4 has to be attached to the factory amp outputs. I was just offering an option based on the experience that I have had with my Sony system
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Old 01-02-2017   #43
 
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

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I am pretty sure the LSA-4 has to be attached to the factory amp outputs. I was just offering an option based on the experience that I have had with my Sony system
it does.
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Old 01-02-2017   #44
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

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Ha! Well, I know my intention is to basically just use an add a circuit and run to the DC switched input on the FiX, then I can remote out to the TwK and be fine. 10A fuses should suffice and there are spares inside the passenger compartment fuse panel. The only confusion I have is the 12v Battery connection this thing also has - I'm not sure if I need both?
You have to have the 12v constant to Power the unit. There are three options to turn it on. Per the Owners manual "Preferred is a dedicated remote Wire from the source". There is also a DC offset option that detects the small presence of DC signal in the OEM audio inputs. The final option is Signal Sensing which automatically turns on by detecting full-range OEM audio signals and turns off after signal is removed (varies, depending on input signal levels).

Just for what its worth, I have been messing with this factory system since I bought my truck in January of 2014. I have used several different summing devices and DSP's. Any advice I offer is from experience to help prevent you from going through the same frustration I went through.
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Old 01-02-2017   #45
 
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

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You have to have the 12v constant to Power the unit. There are three options to turn it on. Per the Owners manual "Preferred is a dedicated remote Wire from the source". There is also a DC offset option that detects the small presence of DC signal in the OEM audio inputs. The final option is Signal Sensing which automatically turns on by detecting full-range OEM audio signals and turns off after signal is removed (varies, depending on input signal levels).

Just for what its worth, I have been messing with this factory system since I bought my truck in January of 2014. I have used several different summing devices and DSP's. Any advice I offer is from experience to help prevent you from going through the same frustration I went through.
And I appreciate it! That's the plan. I'll have to run a 12v constant and a 12v ACC to the unit, then I can remote out to the turn on for the TwK. That unit will need a 12v constant too. Using the signal sense should be fine - it will detect a full range signal from the OEM amp as I'll have the Front mids and highs connected. I have plenty of spare 10A fuse slots in my fuse box - just have to run more wire.
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Old 01-05-2017   #46
 
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I got your PM, I got busy with the holidays and forgot to reply. Sorry I didn't reply until you ordered everything.
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Old 01-06-2017   #47
 
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

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I got your PM, I got busy with the holidays and forgot to reply. Sorry I didn't reply until you ordered everything.
All good - install is being done tonight thanks to a garage heater! I'll post some pics after it's all done.
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Old 01-07-2017   #48
 
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

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FiX works great with the Sony Systems. I recommend NOT using the factory subwoofer signal from the Sony amp. They tend to significantly clip at moderate volume and that gets summed into the system and can lead to poor sound quality and potential damaged tweeters. The front doors are full range, so you can get all you need there.

Run the midrange into inputs 1/2, high frequency into 3/4 and call it a day.

You will most likely need the FiX-LSA-4 load sensing adaptors. We have received word from many dealers that the amp displays high frequency noise or muting if it doesn't "detect a factory load". The FiX-LSA-4 tricks it into seeing a factory speaker.

I don't think the output of the head unit is variable and I believe it's all CAN controlled, so you will need to grab your signals after the head unit. If using the OEM steering wheel controls you will be subjected to volume dependent equalization. If you don't want that simply use a DRC-100 to control the output from the FiX, or you can control the output from what ever DSP you are planning on using. A FiX 82 optically into a TwK D8 is a pretty powerful and cost effective integration and system tuning set up!

Let me know if you have any other questions!

Rob
Everything is in and installed, it's super late so I'll have to fiddle more tomorrow. Ran the mids to 1/2, and the tweeters to 3/4, FiX-LSA-4 in the middle. Then TOSlink over to the TwK. Couple of things I noticed first off, the signal on the right side (both front and back doors) is pretty weak. Not sure why, I'll have to look at that tomorrow. Also the subs are pretty weak too, so more fiddling there as well.

I did notice that the FiX displayed amber lights on the left side (both top and bottom) - not sure if that's a FiX-LSA-4 issue or not, but we'll have to see. Also, the TwK JLid and DRC-200 LED are red. So it's clipping somewhere input, but I have no idea where...plenty to do tomorrow.

Once the bugs are worked out, I'll be sure to update you. Then I can start TwK'ing with REW.

Again thanks for your help, and let me know if you have any insight on the issues I'm seeing.

Thanks again!
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Old 01-07-2017   #49
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

Interested to see how all this hooks up with the sony amp and such incase my ms8 ever leaves me. In for pics.

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Old 01-07-2017   #50
 
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

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Interested to see how all this hooks up with the sony amp and such incase my ms8 ever leaves me. In for pics.
I'll be sure to post some pics next weekend. I'm leaving tomorrow and it's below zero here - so that was an after thought. Also, this spring is the big 3 upgrade, plus I'm going 0 and 4 AWG back to a distribution block to clean things up a bit. My neighbor and I are talking about a 3 day venture where we gut it, re-mount and re-run all the cabling to help clean it up. It's been torn apart about 4 times now, so it's not the cleanest but not a disaster.

It's in and working - I'm very happy with it, but also found some learnings that I wanted to share. First, the LSA-4 was NOT necessary. The system doesn't mute, and grabs signal just fine. I ran the mids to 1/2, highs to 3/4 and left the sub out, until...

Worked out the kinks this morning. Had a couple of silly calibration issues which I can only relate to a poorly crimped barrel connector. That resolved it, recalibrated fine. After all was said and done, the subs were WEAK. To the point all the volume or gain in the world wouldn't help them. There are two leads coming off the Sony amp to the factory sub. We pulled the factory sub enclosure apart and sure enough, no amp inside the factory box, just a dual voice coil 8". Hooked a 9v to the leads and it moved. So we took ONE of the factory sub inputs and connected it (mono) to the TwK. All of a sudden, BOOM. Subs are banging now. Naturally, YMMV but this is what I've found so far and had success with. If the sub becomes an issue, disconnecting and recalibrating isn't difficult.

I have a Mini-DSP UMIK1 mic that I used with REW. Naturally, the peaks in my RTA readings didn't fall within the 10 bands given. But, JL was nice enough to allow you to MOVE a band (for example, I can change 250 hz to another setting predefined within the TwK). Moving that, and adjusting the Q seemed to help move the peaks out of the RTA readings. I'll have to play more, and I need to tune the subs still.

That's what I know thus far - I'm happy to answer any questions you might have about what I've found or learned. All in all, great experience thus far and VERY clean quality sound.
Thanks for all of your help and please holler with questions. One item to note - there isn't a lot of info out there on the web due to the products being fairly new so I wanted to at least get something out there to folks using or looking at the FiX and/or TwK.

M

Edit: I used the DRC-200 that came with the TwK, not the DRC-100 for the FiX. OEM features work. Steering wheel, fader, OEM EQ etc. I haven't mounted/installed it yet (too cold) but will. I have it tied up in the back with the volumes maxed so I can adjust using the H/U.
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