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Old 01-11-2017   #76
 
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

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Christ on a cracker™ one of them better. I will even go the pac route with no dsp if it just functions.
I lol'd
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Old 01-11-2017   #77
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

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Originally Posted by Unsecured_WiFi View Post
Christ on a cracker™ one of them better. I will even go the pac route with no dsp if it just functions.
for the most part, i'd probably use the more simple solution since i'd most likely add a dsp after. the digital out board is a nice thing to have as well.

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Old 01-11-2017   #78
 
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

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Originally Posted by dawaro View Post
You could always try using just the RT/LT and recalibrating and see if that makes a difference.

I have mine torn apart at the moment so if I have time I will try hooking some speakers up to the RT/LT outputs to see if they are in fact full range.
Just curious if you happened to try this? I'm going to Saturday. I'll post pics from REW
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Old 01-12-2017   #79
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

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Just curious if you happened to try this? I'm going to Saturday. I'll post pics from REW
I hope to try it this weekend weather depending. It may not be an overly scientific test being that everything is pulled out at the moment but at the very least I will hook up some full range speakers and test the different outputs.
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Old 01-14-2017   #80
 
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

It's now not too big of a deal to convert the Sony Stereo to variable line level and feed a DSP before the stupid Sony Amp. Requires a $30 ODBII/MS-CAN bus device from Amazon and the free Forscan tool. Chimes and voice don't seem to be a big deal either.

Best thread on the topic I know of here..
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Old 01-14-2017   #81
 
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

Unprocessed Line Level Preamp Output Now Possible from ACM (Factory Radio)
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Old 01-15-2017   #82
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

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Originally Posted by Lexingtonian View Post
It's now not too big of a deal to convert the Sony Stereo to variable line level and feed a DSP before the stupid Sony Amp. Requires a $30 ODBII/MS-CAN bus device from Amazon and the free Forscan tool. Chimes and voice don't seem to be a big deal either.

Best thread on the topic I know of here..
the sweeps the guy did later in the thread don't show a flat signal. the guy never responded after that. hmm.

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Old 01-15-2017   #83
 
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

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the sweeps the guy did later in the thread don't show a flat signal. the guy never responded after that. hmm.
Yeah it kind of became a pissing match of which the FordEscape guy aired out his issue in a ***ty nice way on a different forum.

Unprocessed Line Level Preamp Output Now Possible from ACM (Factory Radio)

Looks like ford could be applying an eq curve based on volume. Put it in perspective though most guys with those vehicles that have aftermarketed their cars have dsp's taking in an utterly clipped high level signal AND any ghetto EQing ford is doing. What a train wreck.

Now we have clean variable line level.

Time to conquer the EQ. A little more info on some of that in this thread..

2017 F150 Sony system delete?
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Old 01-15-2017   #84
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

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I was hoping someone with the same vehicle would chime in! Thanks. So that said, how do you run your subs? I'm going to take the front L/R high levels for the mid and tweet, and will run those to the DSP ONLY. I'll probably go Helix, because I like that product a lot and should be able to "de-EQ" and normalize everything via REW, the DSP RTA and my RTA mic. My only question is how your sub amp is ran - did you just use the factory low level signal directly to your sub and left it off the DSP, or did you sum that with a high level from the fronts and then ran your channels accordingly in the DSP?

Thanks again - this is helpful
On the helix Dsp you simple choose your input signal and send it to all the channels of the Dsp. I did this with helix Dsp in my old Car for two active setup plus sub. I will do this in my Sony system crewcab ford truck 2013 fx4 8 touch screen. So you only need say your front door speakers for high level in and can Power the whole system with them. Sorry if this has been covered I am still reading thread.

But theseee go to 11!!!
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Old 01-15-2017   #85
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

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Originally Posted by Lexingtonian View Post
Yeah it kind of became a pissing match of which the FordEscape guy aired out his issue in a ***ty nice way on a different forum.

Unprocessed Line Level Preamp Output Now Possible from ACM (Factory Radio)

Looks like ford could be applying an eq curve based on volume. Put it in perspective though most guys with those vehicles that have aftermarketed their cars have dsp's taking in an utterly clipped high level signal AND any ghetto EQing ford is doing. What a train wreck.

Now we have clean variable line level.

Time to conquer the EQ. A little more info on some of that in this thread..

2017 F150 Sony system delete?
Just FYI, Alan and I worked with him for several months on this. It only became ***tty as you say when the results didnt match what was promised and Alan was seeking to return the unit.

The signal doesnt clip until a click or two before full volume as long as you dont use the sub channels. With FordEscape's situation his vehicle didnt even have the Sony system.

I have had two different individuals tell me they could provide a variable pre-out on this unit with the TA and roll-off defeated. Once I started asking technical questions and asking for before and after measurements they both stopped answering my emails.

I have even worked with the developers of Forscan about what changes need to be made to the programming to provide a flat output. They disproved the settings the first individual provided.

Unfortunately to the truth of the matter is that with the Sony system the signal comes in as a L/R signal and is processed in the Sony DSP to provide front, rear, center and sub channels. While the audio signal itself may not be controlled by the CAN bus all of the other options are (steering wheel controls, fader, master volume).

So far best option for this system appears to be the soon to be released RF DSR1. I have used the i-Data Maestro products in a couple of BMW's and they worked great. Being that the DSR1 is a collaboration between the two companies I am really looking forward to it.
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Old 01-15-2017   #86
 
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

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Just FYI, Alan and I worked with him for several months on this. It only became ***tty as you say when the results didnt match what was promised and Alan was seeking to return the unit.

The signal doesnt clip until a click or two before full volume as long as you dont use the sub channels. With FordEscape's situation his vehicle didnt even have the Sony system.

I have had two different individuals tell me they could provide a variable pre-out on this unit with the TA and roll-off defeated. Once I started asking technical questions and asking for before and after measurements they both stopped answering my emails.

I have even worked with the developers of Forscan about what changes need to be made to the programming to provide a flat output. They disproved the settings the first individual provided.

Unfortunately to the truth of the matter is that with the Sony system the signal comes in as a L/R signal and is processed in the Sony DSP to provide front, rear, center and sub channels. While the audio signal itself may not be controlled by the CAN bus all of the other options are (steering wheel controls, fader, master volume).

So far best option for this system appears to be the soon to be released RF DSR1. I have used the i-Data Maestro products in a couple of BMW's and they worked great. Being that the DSR1 is a collaboration between the two companies I am really looking forward to it.
Hey thanks for the write up, research and reply. So is it your understanding that the TA is coming from the ACM or the DSP (amp)? It's appears for certain the rolloff is coming from the ACM. Care to share the details from the forscan guys?

Line 80,81 on the ACM tab here shows some EQ settings, get to play with those during your test?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...5730/htmlview#

Last edited by Lexingtonian; 01-15-2017 at 04:38 PM..
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Old 01-15-2017   #87
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

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Originally Posted by Lexingtonian View Post
Hey thanks for the write up, research and reply. So is it your understanding that the TA is coming from the ACM or the DSP (amp)? It's appears for certain the rolloff is coming from the ACM. Care to share the details from the forscan guys?

Line 80,81 on the ACM tab here shows some EQ settings, get to play with those during your test?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...5730/htmlview#
The guys from Forscan didnt offer a lot of details other than the instructions I was given from another member on here were incorrect. At the time they had not done any research on the correct settings.

IMO I would figure the TA would be coming from the DSP module as it doesnt seem to be an issue for folks without the Sony system. The rolloff appears to come from the ACM as it shows up in results for both Sony and Non-Sony systems. I have the schematics for all three but it has been a while since I reviewed them so I cant say for sure. Being that the signal is sent to the CAN bus it could take place in the ACM, ACIM or DSP.

This is why I am so interested in the Rockford/Maestro piece. It is described as being able to intercept the audio signal and re-route it to their piece. I am anxiously waiting for it to be released. All information I have indicates late March, early April.

This whole issue is why my truck is in pieces right now...

I got frustrated over the HU issues and just stopped. Right now I have enough JL, RF, AudioFrog and Sundown equipment to Build two vehicles. I had even more but I sold my ES audio equipment to another member here.

I will try to pull my As-Built data and compare it to the spreadsheet you linked to. Being that my truck is a 2014 I am not sure how the results will compare.
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Old 01-15-2017   #88
 
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

So I'm back with some updates. Got in to the system yesterday and did some fine tuning and tweaking. Good news and odd news, as usual.

I had to fix the physical connections of my mids/highs and then route it properly in the TwK. I had something crossed, so it was working fine but a bit confusing when working in the DSP.

All that settled, I installed the FIX-LSA-4 and wired JUST the mids and highs. I wanted to verify if I was getting a full range signal. Low and behold, I was! So the sub channels are not connected and the sounds is good. Now for the odd. With the LSA connected inline, after a certain amount of time, the system would shut down. As in, head unit was on, FiX would Power off, causing everything else to Power off. Finding that odd I verified that all of the power was good, grounds etc. Moved the grounds to a new point, tried again - same issue. WTF?! Removed the LSA...problem solved. I cannot explain this, but it's what it is.

Now that I have full range signal, the sound is good - I need to massage the mids and highs in the DSP, as they are still pretty bright and can be calmed down a bit. I did get a good curve on the subs too, so I'm happy with that. I do like the 10 band parametric JL offers - actually simplifies the tuning quite a bit. I'll post some REW sweeps tomorrow as I'm going to tune it up a bit.

Next, is a big spring time update. Big 3 upgrade, then I'll be running 0 and 4 AWG to the back and distribute power from a block there. Also, I'll re-run all my Speaker wires and clean that up. The system has been touched so much it needs a good old clean up. Then remounting some stuff and probably a final solution - I've been looking at the PAC audio stuff due out. I don't want to lose my TwK as I like it, but I also am not sure how in love I am with the RF solution after my 3sixty headaches. From what I understand, you can bypass the 3sixty tuning pieces all together and just use the integration piece? I'll do some research on that for sure.

Last piece - I'm currently running 3 amps total, and I'd like to reduce the footprint a bit so I'm considering replacing my RF Punch amps for the components and driving them with a JL 6 channel. Unsure yet. I will be removing the FiX - not for any reason other than I need to tap in pre-amp, and that piece won't be needed once I do that. Great product, if anyone wants to buy it next spring let me know. haha.

Trying to think of what I might have forgotten or left out - happy to answer any questions. I do want to say thank you to EVERYONE for the insight, and great sense of community. This post and forum has been a very enlightening experience. And I didn't get called a dumbass (out loud) by anyone!

I am confused about the LSA piece...it essentially muted it, and then powered off. Really odd.
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Old 01-15-2017   #89
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawaro View Post
So far best option for this system appears to be the soon to be released RF DSR1. I have used the i-Data Maestro products in a couple of BMW's and they worked great. Being that the DSR1 is a collaboration between the two companies I am really looking forward to it.
What do you know about the RF DSR1? Will it work with the 2013/2014 myford touch sony systems? I spoke with idatalink a couple months ago about their maestro system. They told me that the system was far too integrated into the vehicle and their engineers had suspended trying to work with all sync 2 vehicles with mft. It would be an awesome solution, especially the price.
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Old 01-16-2017   #90
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

Quote:
Originally Posted by valow View Post
I had to fix the physical connections of my mids/highs and then route it properly in the TwK. I had something crossed, so it was working fine but a bit confusing when working in the DSP.

All that settled, I installed the FIX-LSA-4 and wired JUST the mids and highs. I wanted to verify if I was getting a full range signal. Low and behold, I was! So the sub channels are not connected and the sounds is good.
Aren't you glad you double checked the wiring?

Quote:
Originally Posted by valow View Post
Now for the odd. With the LSA connected inline, after a certain amount of time, the system would shut down. As in, head unit was on, FiX would Power off, causing everything else to Power off. Finding that odd I verified that all of the power was good, grounds etc. Moved the grounds to a new point, tried again - same issue. WTF?! Removed the LSA...problem solved. I cannot explain this, but it's what it is.
Sounds like the signal sensing turn on is the issue. This is why I recommend using the 5v remote for the Sony amplifier. You can use a 5v relay to trigger a second relay that is connected to a 12v constant source to act as the remote Wire for the Fix.

Could also be that since you have the rear speakers disconnected the amp is shutting down since it expects to see a load on those channels. You could try adding resistors across the rear outputs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by valow View Post
I've been looking at the PAC audio stuff due out. I don't want to lose my TwK as I like it, but I also am not sure how in love I am with the RF solution after my 3sixty headaches. From what I understand, you can bypass the 3sixty tuning pieces all together and just use the integration piece? I'll do some research on that for sure.
There is also a piece coming out from Metra as well but it also includes DSP functions. Since you already have the TwK I would suggest the PAC piece with the optical output. It would simply replace the FiX piece. PAC has the installation manual online now so you can review it and see what options it has.
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Old 01-16-2017   #91
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

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What do you know about the RF DSR1? Will it work with the 2013/2014 myford touch sony systems? I spoke with idatalink a couple months ago about their maestro system. They told me that the system was far too integrated into the vehicle and their engineers had suspended trying to work with all sync 2 vehicles with mft. It would be an awesome solution, especially the price.
Mostly just what was included in the press release. The system was a partnership between ADS and RF and the initial firmware release is supposed to be limited to Ford and Chrysler vehicles. It was designed to work with the MFT systems. Just like the PAC interface it intercepts the audio data on the CAN bus and redirects it to the DSP which is essentially the 3sixty3. Hopefully that means they have also upgraded the software for the 3Sixty3.

When I inquired about the piece with RF they said they could not release any additional information at this time but would have the documentation on the website as it got closer to the expected release date of March/April. I still have some friends that work in the industry and had them try to get information on it for me but they got the same answer I did. Would be nice to know if anyone is beta testing the unit and could share some insight.

I am assuming it would be a solid piece if ADS is willing to put the Maestro name on it. I have used a couple of there interfaces on some BMW's for a friend and they were solid products.
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Old 01-16-2017   #92
 
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

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Sounds like the signal sensing turn on is the issue. This is why I recommend using the 5v remote for the Sony amplifier. You can use a 5v relay to trigger a second relay that is connected to a 12v constant source to act as the remote Wire for the Fix.

Could also be that since you have the rear speakers disconnected the amp is shutting down since it expects to see a load on those channels. You could try adding resistors across the rear outputs.


I believe the Speaker detection can be disabled using Forscan.

See this spreadsheet on the ACM Tab, lines 37-45.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...5730/htmlview#
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Old 01-20-2017   #93
 
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

Going to go tinker a bit, set some gains using a 0db 50 Hz tone for the subs, and play with REW a bit for level matching. Anyone interested in REW sweeps? I'll grab some screens just in case
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Old 01-21-2017   #94
 
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363.3 software will not be upgradable to work similar to dsr1.
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Old 01-21-2017   #95
 
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I've also been considering just using master volume on ROCKFORDFOSGATE 363.3, so that I don't have to deal with Ford volume EQ change. Just dial it in flat, set it, and forget it.
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Old 01-22-2017   #96
 
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

Level matching
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Old 01-22-2017   #97
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

Hmmmmm well it's either highlevel or wait for RF piece

But theseee go to 11!!!
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Old 01-22-2017   #98
 
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

pics of the install - retrofit coming this spring so more pics then.
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File Type: jpg IMG_2944.JPG (115.1 KB, 28 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_2945.JPG (174.2 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_2946.JPG (133.2 KB, 23 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_2947.JPG (141.4 KB, 23 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_2948.JPG (128.7 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_2949.JPG (119.1 KB, 21 views)

Last edited by valow; 01-22-2017 at 12:34 PM..
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Old 01-22-2017   #99
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

Awesome

But theseee go to 11!!!
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Old 01-22-2017   #100
 
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Default Re: 2014 Ford F-150 w/ Sony - OEM integration

file size issues - there you go.

Thanks again fora ll the help and support. I'll be sure to post tons of pics this spring. Even looking at sub upgrades how. Ported enclosures are tough but with my music type I'm better off with one so I'll have to see if I can pull off a 12 or something in there and boost up that bass.
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