Why no lead? - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum

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Old 4 Days Ago   #1
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Default Why no lead?

Im spending some time re doing the install on my Buick. I just wasnt happy with my results the first time around. One of the areas i wanted to address was my craptacular sound damping job. It wasnt horrible per se, but GM did nithing from the factory for the trunk, instead relied on sealing it off from the rest of the car. I didnt take that into account when i stuck a couple of 18's where the seat back once was.

Anyway, today i was rebuilding the trunk, and decided to use some lead sheeting on the back wheel wells, along with MLV on the trunk floor. I was floored at how easy it was. I spent more time waiting for the glue to set up sandwiching the lead with ccf than the entire job. It was like 10 minutes getting both sides finished. It molded its self perfectly to the curves, and a kick out on the bottom where it will meet the MLV on the floor. With no relief cuts, gluing this piece to that to bend around curves. Im pissed that i spent like 2 days cutting and cementing the "tub" when i did the interior floor. I could have finished it in a couple of hours using the lead.

Why is no one using the stuff anymore? It cant be the cost. The MLV cost me about $200 shipped to my door from Flaming River on amazon. The same 100sf in 1/64 in lead is $300 shipped from Roto Metals, again, off of amazon. If you are taking out your interior, and putting all this TIME money and effort into the endeavor, a 30% cost difference isnt shit, and the time and aggravation is WELL worth an extra $100. Your CLD and CCF costs are going to be the same. Not to mention its a HELL of a lot easier to move and handle 5 4x4x12in, 20lb boxes than a full roll of the vinyl. That alone makes it worth the extra dough.(keep in mind ive been doing this with a bad shoulder, so the full roll of MLV was a special kind of hell for me)

MLV still makes sense doing doors and large flat or gently curved panels, but i just cant justify using MLV for an entire project anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcbassplay
It's not a party until the bottoms come off.
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Old 4 Days Ago   #2
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Default Re: Why no lead?

Good to know, it saved time and prevented other issues.
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Default Re: Why no lead?

I've been thinking about this same thing: Lead vs MLV. I'm in the process of installing MLV under my door panels and I'm really fight'n with it.

I remember back in the 90s when I did my doors up with Dynaliner Max which was basically CCF/LEAD/CCF composite and it was a hell of a lot easier because it formed so easily. And it worked great, that Car had tremendous midbass using boston pro 6.5s on headunit power. I attributed it to sealing up and sound deadening the doors so well. Some of my friends at the time thought I had subs/amp in the trunk and were surprised to see none existed.

Honestly, without looking into it much I thought all the lead products were no longer available these days because of well, you know, it's considered a hazardous material. I actually work at a secondary lead smelter. Too bad it's not so easy to hide lead sheeting in my lunchbox

Recently I found a similar product to the old Dynaliner Max: Cascade VB3. But it's damn expensive.

I'm going to check out that seller on Amazon. Thanks for posting!

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Old 4 Days Ago   #4
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Default Re: Why no lead?

The difference between $200 and $300 to sound treat a Car is huge for Car audio folks. Consider how many threads there are where people are asking about "budget" sound treatments and using materials they find at their local hardware stores just to save a few bucks. The market for anything other than "dirt cheap" is rough in car audio so something like lead sheeting is hard to sell.

It is also toxic, so there's that too.

But yeah, it sure can be easy to work with.

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Default Re: Why no lead?

I can't help that someone doesn't want to spend an extra $100 after all the effort it takes to gut a Car out. There is a time and place to spend the extra dough. And after all the effort i spent fighting the MLV, I think this is one of those areas. But that is an individual decision. Im just wondering why in every thread MLV comes up, but lead isn't even mentioned.

And u would also like to know how any exposure to toxicity is even close to relevant in a Car audio discussion.

Wear gloves. If your toddler is chewing through your carpet down to the lead, you've got much bigger problems I would think. Everyone I know of who had issues with lead poisoning received their doses at a very high velocity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcbassplay
It's not a party until the bottoms come off.
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Default Re: Why no lead?

Quote:
Originally Posted by truckerfte View Post
. Everyone I know of who had issues with lead poisoning received their doses at a very high velocity.
Haha...

Like you, I will be using sheet lead "encased" in CCF for the floor of my truck as well as high up the firewall as I can reasonably get it. I have bought PSA CCF to adhere to each side of the lead sheet (and will also fold it over the edges), so there will be zero glue up time. Also I am using 1/32" lead rated at 2#/sf as my truck is diesel powered and I can use all the sound deadening I can get within reason. The cost difference is, like you noted, negligible.

All that being said, I am betting that most people use MLV becasue that is ONLY what manufacturers readily provide to sell for sound deadening due to the liability issues of the "safety" of selling lead products.
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Default Re: Why no lead?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzi View Post
The market for anything other than "dirt cheap" is rough in Car audio so something like lead sheeting is hard to sell.
.
Car audio in general, and MLV in particular, is anything BUT dirt cheap.

While obviously there are different levels of financial commitment to this hobby, pretty sure that a $100 difference is not going to break 90% of the people who enjoy the diy process. Leave the toxicity out of it, ( we all mostly take precautions against fiberglass resin fumes/dust don't we) and factor in the ease of use, at least on floor pans, and using lead over MLV it is almost a no brainer IMO.
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Default Re: Why no lead?

The cost difference can be softened even further by mixing it up a little. I don't see the point of using lead in doors, or large flat areas.

Im 50/50 on doing my passport. Large portions of the floor are pretty flat, I would just use lead on tranny tunnel, wheel wells, and seat mount areas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcbassplay
It's not a party until the bottoms come off.
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Default Re: Why no lead?

I like lead

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Default Re: Why no lead?

I sandwiched some 1/64" lead sheet between this affordable Noico CCF which has an extremely strong adhesive layer and was very happy with the results. Along with being easier to handle and form, the CCF actually bonds with other materials unlike MLV.

“The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.” – Benjamin Franklin
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