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Old 04-15-2017   #1
 
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Default MLV install question

I am preparing to install MLV in to my 09 silverado I am curious If I can forego the use of CCF and just use the factory padding under the MLV so it would be, metal, some dynamat dampener ive already installed factory carpet pad, MLV, and then the Vinyl floor that my truck has. is this a good plan of attack? other suggestions?.
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Old 04-15-2017   #2
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Default Re: MLV install question

Quote:
Originally Posted by adl2494 View Post
I am preparing to install MLV in to my 09 silverado I am curious If I can forego the use of CCF and just use the factory padding under the MLV so it would be, metal, some dynamat dampener ive already installed factory carpet pad, MLV, and then the Vinyl floor that my truck has. is this a good plan of attack? other suggestions?.
As long as the MLV isn't resting on metal, any padding is sufficient.

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Old 04-15-2017   #3
 
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Default Re: MLV install question

Most folks use MLV on top of the damper then the factory stuff back over that. It's probably easier to install MLV on that rigid surface as opposed to carpet pad. Might not hurt to decouple the MLV from the damper if you go down that road.
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Old 04-15-2017   #4
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Default Re: MLV install question

Without decoupling MLV from both floor and damping, it's a waste of effort. Isolating MLV from the metal floor is vital, as is making the installation continuous (i.e. like you're trying to hold water)

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Old 04-15-2017   #5
 
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Default Re: MLV install question

Quote:
Originally Posted by keep_hope_alive View Post
Without decoupling MLV from both floor and damping, it's a waste of effort. Isolating MLV from the metal floor is vital, as is making the installation continuous (i.e. like you're trying to hold water)

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Right, I am simply wondering if I can use the factory floor pad as opposed to CCF so my install top to bottom would look like this

1) vinyl floor(i have vinyl floors instead of carpet in my truck....easier to keep clean)
2) MLV
3) factory carpet pad
4) dynamat dampener
5) metal floor
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Old 04-15-2017   #6
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Default Re: MLV install question

Quote:
Originally Posted by adl2494 View Post
Right, I am simply wondering if I can use the factory floor pad as opposed to CCF so my install top to bottom would look like this

1) vinyl floor(i have vinyl floors instead of carpet in my truck....easier to keep clean)
2) MLV
3) factory carpet pad
4) dynamat dampener
5) metal floor
Yes, I replied to you first. Any padding is fine.

My second comment was in regards to the idea if MLV on the floor/deadener.

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Old 04-15-2017   #7
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Default Re: MLV install question

Ah, I see you found your way here on your own. Seems you have your answer though.
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Old 04-15-2017   #8
 
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Default Re: MLV install question

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Originally Posted by Weigel21 View Post
Ah, I see you found your way here on your own. Seems you have your answer though.
Ha thanks buddy!
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Old 04-15-2017   #9
 
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Default Re: MLV install question

Quote:
Originally Posted by keep_hope_alive View Post
Yes, I replied to you first. Any padding is fine.

My second comment was in regards to the idea if MLV on the floor/deadener.

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Oh, in response to "rob feature" i got ya, thanks for weighing in I appreciate the help.
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Old 04-16-2017   #10
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Default Re: MLV install question

About that, since I'm also putting some MLV right now: I just noticed that my factory carpets already have some sort of MLV. Not sure but it definitely feels the same. It's foam/mlv/carpet in one piece.
Is this common?
Since it's pre-shaped etc I'll probably just add dampener on the floor, and maybe some more mlv around just to make sure it's well jointed with the rest, but not on the floor itself.

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Old 04-16-2017   #11
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Default Re: MLV install question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elgrosso View Post
... I just noticed that my factory carpets already have some sort of MLV. Not sure but it definitely feels the same. It's foam/mlv/carpet in one piece.
Is this common?....
The body pan in the cargo area/spare tire well of my '14 Escape is lined with a molded thick felt pad topped/bonded with what must be MLV; the piece weighs a ton, much heavier than the typical heavy felt pad.

It doesn't have carpet/any de-coupler on top, not really needed - in most of that area a rigid CCF 'tool tray' sits on it and it's exposed in the tire-well. All this under the finish carpeted cargo-floor. Well, at least the 'tool tray' used to sit there before my subs and amp-platform were installed on top of the felt/MLV pad.

That same cargo area has several large patches of what appear to be 'resonant dampner compound' on the body pan - it's under the paint and looks like it was applied with a slotted trowel. I've applied CLD to that pan already.

Unfortunately I don't detect a similar MLV-like layer in my main cabin carpet so that's on the list of eventual mods.

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Last edited by FordEscape; 04-16-2017 at 12:03 PM..
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Old 04-16-2017   #12
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Default Re: MLV install question

Quote:
Originally Posted by FordEscape View Post
The body pan in the cargo area/spare tire well of my '14 Escape is lined with a molded thick felt pad topped/bonded with what must be MLV; the piece weighs a ton, much heavier than the typical heavy felt pad.

It doesn't have carpet/any de-coupler on top, not really needed - in most of that area a rigid CCF 'tool tray' sits on it and it's exposed in the tire-well. All this under the finish carpeted cargo-floor. Well, at least the 'tool tray' used to sit there before my subs and amp-platform were installed on top of the felt/MLV pad.

That same cargo area has several large patches of what appear to be 'resonant dampner compound' on the body pan - it's under the paint and looks like it was applied with a slotted trowel. I've applied CLD to that pan already.

Unfortunately I don't detect a similar MLV-like layer in my main cabin carpet so that's on the list of eventual mods.
Thanks FordEscape,
Hereís a pic, it really looks and feels like the MLV I have beside, but being 16yrs old, it starts to come off on the sides. 1/8" in the middle and less on corners since itís molded altogether probably. Thereís also a thin layer of fiber, here to hold onto the foam?
Pretty heavy, maybe 5kgs each side. well thatís good news because I couldn't figure how to cover the complex shape and still re-fit everything cleanly.

IMG_0693.jpg

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Old 04-16-2017   #13
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Default Re: MLV install question

^ Cool, my 'cabin carpet' isn't nearly that substantial/layered

The '13-'16 Escape isn't known for it's noise management, that's one thing Ford changed with the '17 update: adding more acoustic materials, even making SoundScreen acoustic glass standard in the front doors (mine only has it in the windshield).

I'm sure that CLD + CCF de-coupler + well-sealed MLV layer in the floor-pan from high on the firewall to the tail would make a noticeable improvement in my car's noise level. Someday I'll tackle that project.

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Old 04-16-2017   #14
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Default Re: MLV install question

Sound proofing any vehicle changes the entire feel of the car. The more you do the better the return. There's tons of materials out there for sure. I am not really even sure what the foam is called that I used. I think it's more of a open cell foam rubber material. All I know is that it does what I hoped for......silence.
Keep hope alive will steer you in the right direction as far as the materials to use. I have seen him use fiber-glass as well in the doors.

I have a diesel pickup and they are much tougher to quiet down because of the engines. But it can be done, Its a bit like the cargo vehicles with that large floor area that just seems to transmit noise straight into the cabin. Good Luck on the project, if you have a dB meter I would take it out and document the sound levels now before you start the project. Then you will be able to appreciate the improvement and know exactly how successful you did.
I wish I did that before I did my truck. I had a dB meter too.....Doh
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Old 04-16-2017   #15
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Default Re: MLV install question

Yes Iím surprised by the improvement. Never used MLV before, but did for the first time 2 weeks ago, on rear.
And even unfinished and unsealed (that I did today), it got much better!
To be more precise, I had a bad diff for months, humming noise and klonk on speed change. Well after CLD+CCF+MLV on the rear only, bench+parcel shelf (itís a 2+2), 90% of the noise was gone! I can still feel it, but barely hear it.
Almost made me re-consider fixing the diff!

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Old 04-16-2017   #16
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Default Re: MLV install question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elgrosso View Post
About that, since I'm also putting some MLV right now: I just noticed that my factory carpets already have some sort of MLV. Not sure but it definitely feels the same. It's foam/mlv/carpet in one piece.
Is this common?
Since it's pre-shaped etc I'll probably just add dampener on the floor, and maybe some more mlv around just to make sure it's well jointed with the rest, but not on the floor itself.
5 series BMWs, starting with the E34 I think, had a thick foam layer followed MLV which is bonded to the carpet. Some of the areas had foam that was several inches thick. They also had a styrofoam core in the foam to stop the foam from compressing completely. The thing that sucked is the MLV layer would crumble and disintegrate over time (at least on the E34). But there was also vinyl bonded to foam under the rear seat. I have seen similar on even old Benz. So it's not unheard of for sure.
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Old 04-16-2017   #17
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Default Re: MLV install question

Quote:
Originally Posted by adl2494 View Post
Right, I am simply wondering if I can use the factory floor pad as opposed to CCF so my install top to bottom would look like this

1) vinyl floor(i have vinyl floors instead of carpet in my truck....easier to keep clean)
2) MLV
3) factory carpet pad
4) dynamat dampener
5) metal floor
It all comes down to acoustic impedance. So I am kinda of curious as to whether the existing vinyl floor can act like MLV. Do you have any idea the lb/sq ft of the existing vinyl?

I don't think the carpet padding does a great job as a decoupler, which is what closed cell foam does. The padding probably absorbs more than it decouples.

So, I think that the better option might be to lay down the dynamat, toss the factory carpet pad, replace it with a good decoupler foam, and not get MLV. But again, that mostly depends on the density of a existing vinyl floors. I don't think you will get much benefit from MLV with the vinyl on top because the materials are essentially identical.

So

1)vinyl floor
2)foam decoupler
3)dynamat
4)metal floor

One way that may get you even better performance is to run two decoupler layers

1)vinyl floor
2)foam decoupler
3)MLV
4) foam decoupler
5)dynamat
6)metal layer

I can't say this will work 100%, but maybe you can follow the logic behind my idea.
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Old 04-16-2017   #18
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Default Re: MLV install question

I wouldn't ditch that thick OEM felt pad for anything - it's there, it's properly molded to all the contours, it adds both acoustic and thermal benefit. All the automotive-specialty acoustic-material vendors explicitly state that 1/8" CCF de-coupler does nothing for acoustic benefit in itself - for all intents it's 'transparent' to sound waves.

IMHO the right answer for the OP was in post #2 - the pad will work just as well as 1/8" CCF compressed in a floor situation for decoupling.

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Old 04-17-2017   #19
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Default Re: MLV install question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orion525iT View Post
It all comes down to acoustic impedance. So I am kinda of curious as to whether the existing vinyl floor can act like MLV. Do you have any idea the lb/sq ft of the existing vinyl?

I don't think the carpet padding does a great job as a decoupler, which is what closed cell foam does. The padding probably absorbs more than it decouples.

So, I think that the better option might be to lay down the dynamat, toss the factory carpet pad, replace it with a good decoupler foam, and not get MLV. But again, that mostly depends on the density of a existing vinyl floors. I don't think you will get much benefit from MLV with the vinyl on top because the materials are essentially identical.

So

1)vinyl floor
2)foam decoupler
3)dynamat
4)metal floor

One way that may get you even better performance is to run two decoupler layers

1)vinyl floor
2)foam decoupler
3)MLV
4) foam decoupler
5)dynamat
6)metal layer

I can't say this will work 100%, but maybe you can follow the logic behind my idea.
I'm with Orian regarding leaving your OEM carpet in. If you can put the vinyl flooring over the top of it. If you are planning to hose it out that idea wont work.
I put a self adhesive foam rubber material that has a aluminum facing to it under the cab of my truck as well. It made a difference for sure, picked it up at McMaster Carr.
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Old 04-19-2017   #20
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Default Re: MLV install question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orion525iT View Post
5 series BMWs, starting with the E34 I think, had a thick foam layer followed MLV which is bonded to the carpet. Some of the areas had foam that was several inches thick. They also had a styrofoam core in the foam to stop the foam from compressing completely. The thing that sucked is the MLV layer would crumble and disintegrate over time (at least on the E34). But there was also vinyl bonded to foam under the rear seat. I have seen similar on even old Benz. So it's not unheard of for sure.
Ok! And now I can confirm mine is MLV, and that once old it disintegrates a bit, I had to cut some parts it was too messy. The foam too, but itís so thick itís ok!

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Default Re: MLV install question

I think you'll find the factory vinyl flooring provides much less mass/area than MLV - both are vinyl but MLV has minerals added to increase density, so not really the same.

I agree that factory carpet padding can be a decoupler, but there is one other consideration when layering, whether the final layer is vinyl or carpet. Fro the factory the sequence was floor -> padding -> vinyl flooring. Adding a layer of MLV between the factory padding and vinyl may change the feel and wear characteristics of the finish material. Probably more of an issue with carpet which feels very different under foot when resting directly on MLV.

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