Awg ampere/watt conflict with Amp Rec. - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum

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Old 1 Week Ago   #1
 
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Default Awg ampere/watt conflict with Amp Rec.

I tried searching, nothing popped up with specific answer. Disclaimer, Pretty new to car audio

So i just bought 2 RF p3d4 and a RF Prime 1200.1D. The subs are wired down to 1 ohm (amp stable at 1 ohm at 1200 watts RMS) the amp suggest 4 awg power and ground, and despite what specs sayin that it accepts 1/0 gauge wire, it looks, and other people say, its already hard enough to fit 4 awg. Whats kinda the paradox is that at 1200 watt 1 ohm, and a power wire running about 13 ft (ford focus '09) the amp should be pulling well over 120 ampere. Somewhere around 170 if im actually pluggin in the right equation. Isnt 4 awg really only do about 1000 watts and /or 120 ampere?

So i guess my question is, at 1200 watt rms, would i be starving/clipping my amp with 4 awg wire? Keep in mind though, i will buy RF 4 awg OFC wiring, so i know the ofc will make it more efficient. Also, what kind of inline fuse would i want to put in? The RF 4 awg power kit comes with a 100a fuse, is that good enough to protect amp?

Thanks !!
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Default Re: Awg ampere/watt conflict with Amp Rec.

For power cables, I'll look at KnuKonceptz first, cheaper and better than what RF offers.
When you wire the amp for 1ohm operation, most of the power are turned to heat rather than power to the sub, if you check out the RF amp's spec, 1ohm always having the lowest efficiency compare to 2 or 4ohm.

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Default Re: Awg ampere/watt conflict with Amp Rec.

It looks like the 2011 year model suggests a 100A fuse and the 2013 year model suggests a 150A fuse, based on the two different user manuals on the RF website.

Either way, a single 4awg cable should be just fine to power that amplifier by itself. You can use either fuse but if it were my setup, I would err slightly on the cautious side and use the 100A one.

Just keep in mind you will never actually be producing 1,200w of power continuously when playing music, so you will very likely not melt a 100A fuse by playing music. The 100A fuse is adequate to protect both the 4awg wire and the amplifier too, so it's a good choice.

If for whatever reason you blow the 100A fuse, you can always try a 150A fuse later. Just keep in mind you'll have less safety factor in protecting the *wire* if you do that.

You might consider electrical system upgrades for your car since it seems like you will be using all three amplifiers in your car. You will also want to run additional power wire(s) for the other two amplifiers since the single 4awg you've mentioned will be pretty saturated just by the subwoofer amplifier alone.

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Yea i found my manual, no onboard fuses, but it calls for 150a fuse. Thanks for the Knukonceptz suggestion. I think im gunna go with there kolosul 4ga ofc. It comes with a inline holster that can hold up to 150a, but comes with a 120a fuse, probably just run that, and if pop, replace with a 150a fuse.

Funny, the kit recomended (of course it would be RF) is a RFk4, which the inline holster it comes with only goes up to 100a XD. Why recomend that when your own product calls for 150a...

Thanks again guys
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Default Re: Awg ampere/watt conflict with Amp Rec.

Because fusing lower is always safer. Using a 100 amp fuse means that the wire will be protected. You would have to be pushing that amp to it's absolute limit to pull 150 amps. Their product doesn't really "call for 150a." Lower is always acceptable.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gijoe View Post
Because fusing lower is always safer. Using a 100 amp fuse means that the wire will be protected. You would have to be pushing that amp to it's absolute limit to pull 150 amps. Their product doesn't really "call for 150a." Lower is always acceptable.
Would 120 be a good middle ground then? Still low enough to protect wire, but less likely to be burnin through fuses
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Default Re: Awg ampere/watt conflict with Amp Rec.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paintballas3ko View Post
Would 120 be a good middle ground then? Still low enough to protect wire, but less likely to be burnin through fuses
Good resource here LINK

4 Gauge wire @ 10' - 13' is rated 85 to 150amps but not all wire is that good so I would say max 100-125, keep it at 100a fuse. Your probably going to be fine with 4 gauge, I'm running 2000w total (4000 with 50% efficiency) uses max 285 amps. Class D amps are considered more efficient (use less amperage) but there are no official numbers published so I assume 50%.

Use this calculator LINK
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Default Re: Awg ampere/watt conflict with Amp Rec.

Quote:
Originally Posted by billj214 View Post
Good resource here LINK

4 Gauge wire @ 10' - 13' is rated 85 to 150amps but not all wire is that good so I would say max 100-125, keep it at 100a fuse. Your probably going to be fine with 4 gauge, I'm running 2000w total (4000 with 50% efficiency) uses max 285 amps. Class D amps are considered more efficient (use less amperage) but there are no official numbers published so I assume 50%.

Use this calculator LINK
While billj214's advice is good, the chart on that Crutchfield page seems terribly optimistic. I've never seen any source recommend running 300 amps through a 4awg wire in all of my research, and since that chart recommends it, I would assume the entire thing is not to be trusted.

I like that they have wire length along with current when determining the wire gauge because most charts are ignorant wire length, but you can only use a smaller wire when the run is super short up to a point. Beyond some amount of current, a smaller wire is not going to be as safe as it should be, no matter how short it is.

My best effort at making a wire/fuse chart is on the last sheet of my excel-based tool linked in my signature and I'm pretty confident with the results after much digging, many equations, and lots of consulting. I'm happy to explain how I arrived at these numbers, if anyone is interested.

So yes Paintballas3ko you can use a 100a or 120a fuse if you like. I would be shocked it you managed to melt even an 80A fuse though since music is highly dynamic and you'll only ever be using all 1,200w of power for brief instants with lots of time before the next burst of energy, so your overall power requirement will be much lower than it seems.

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Default Re: Awg ampere/watt conflict with Amp Rec.

Always understand what is maximum current draw and typical current draw.
I always fuse my amp's power cable using typical current draw's rating.
Typical current draw most of the time will be 1/3 from the amp's rated fuse.

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Default Re: Awg ampere/watt conflict with Amp Rec.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyheng View Post
Always understand what is maximum current draw and typical current draw.
I always fuse my amp's power cable using typical current draw's rating.
Typical current draw most of the time will be 1/3 from the amp's rated fuse.
Just to piggyback, Kyheng's comment is important to consider. Typical draw is MUCH less than maximum. Considering you need twice the power for only a 3db gain, running your amp 3db below it's maximum (still really loud) is going to pull half the current (on paper). I think people would be surprised at how conservatively they can fuse without popping fuses.

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Default Re: Awg ampere/watt conflict with Amp Rec.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gijoe View Post
Just to piggyback, Kyheng's comment is important to consider. Typical draw is MUCH less than maximum. Considering you need twice the power for only a 3db gain, running your amp 3db below it's maximum (still really loud) is going to pull half the current (on paper). I think people would be surprised at how conservatively they can fuse without popping fuses.
Well, to be on the safe side, blowing the fuse on the power cable is still better than blowing the fuse at the amp.
Main reason I prefer this way is I've blow the amp's fuse due to wrong wiring and it do cause some damage on the power supply circuit when I was in to the DIY world.

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Default Re: Awg ampere/watt conflict with Amp Rec.

Also, if you are concerned. Run 1/0 gauge from battery to amp rack. Step down to 4 gauge to go into the amp. Plenty of room to upgrade in the future.
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Default Re: Awg ampere/watt conflict with Amp Rec.

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Originally Posted by kyheng View Post
Well, to be on the safe side, blowing the fuse on the power cable is still better than blowing the fuse at the amp.
Main reason I prefer this way is I've blow the amp's fuse due to wrong wiring and it do cause some damage on the power supply circuit when I was in to the DIY world.

Oh, absolutely. The fuse at the battery is to protect the wire. That fuse must be rated to blow before the wire reaches it's max current draw.

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Thank you to all who have responded! I feel like i have a much greater grasp on this whole fuse and ampere idea.

One more question, i know its pretty basic, but i think i am going to go with the RF 4awg ofc cuz it comes with ring terminals (for battery and chasis bolt) and inline fuse already crimped, as i do not have crimpers or solder this seems like a good option. Thing is though, on the cable kit, the ground and power wires do not have ring/fork terminals on the opposite end( only one end has ring term), for amp use. Is it okay to just stick the wire straight into the amp? (I know its not as clean looking) I heard if you do this, you should completley fork the wire into a 'Y' then secure it. So the wire would just be on the sides on the screw? No wire completley under it?

Btw, i had some old 4gauge ring and fork terms layin around, tried and seen they dont even fit inside the amp terminal, the ring and fork was to big.

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Default Re: Awg ampere/watt conflict with Amp Rec.

Just strip back the shield enough to expose the wire, plug it in, and tighten the set screw.

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Quote:
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Just strip back the shield enough to expose the wire, plug it in, and tighten the set screw.
Thank you sir, you hve been much helpful!
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Default Re: Awg ampere/watt conflict with Amp Rec.

Crimping will not be a big problem for you. Any cable shop or car service centers near your place should able do it for you with minor cost.
I never look at RF as they are way over price and $/performance are not there at any 1 time.

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