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Old 10-21-2008   #26
 
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Default Re: Help designing enclosures for rear deck 6x9's.

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Originally Posted by capnxtreme View Post
This thread is hilarious.

Seriously, just take out the "baffles."
I am not going to subject my 6x9s to the free air enviroment of that trunk while the sub is hitting. People don't typically do enclosures for the rear deck speakers but in my opinion, it should be required if you are doing this kind of install.
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Old 10-21-2008   #27
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Default Re: Help designing enclosures for rear deck 6x9's.

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I am not going to subject my 6x9s to the free air enviroment of that trunk while the sub is hitting. People don't typically do enclosures for the rear deck speakers but in my opinion, it should be required if you are doing this kind of install.
what should be required is not doing that kind of install.

You obviously are 100% dead set on keeping the 6x9s and building some sort of enclosure...so do it. We don't have any information to "help" you build an enclosure. Just build it to the specs that infinity gave and and be done with it. There's been all kinds of advice given here and you've basically said everything else is wrong but your idea.

Or maybe you should get weaker subs to decrease the amount of violent bass air that you subject to your 6x9s.

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Old 10-21-2008   #28
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Good point about the violent bass air [LMAO]
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Old 10-21-2008   #29
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Default Re: Help designing enclosures for rear deck 6x9's.

Are you saying in your sig you have one 10" sub? It should not push the 6x9 around at all. The 6x9 have a much higher Fs and way less cone mass/area, they only react to pressure and trunks are not that good at making pressure like a real box can. 6x9 are also made just for this kind of situation, within reason. I don't recall if/what I ran with a box in trunk and 6x9 IB. I did in at least one car with pair of older RF 10" in a ported box on about 300rms. Mostly I run IB subs any time I can.

If you are that worried then yes, just make some boxes for them these guys are correct. I tested with and without many times, many years ago. I determined the 6x9 near always sounded better IB so I would only run enclosures if the 6x9 were moving a lot from bass....but you need a LOT of bass to do that in most cars. My four 12s might since they can shake the roof/rear glass/trunk visibly, but pair or less of 10s very unlikely. Trunks are often vented, certainly not air tight or you could not close them easily. In addition most all the panels flex excepting maybe the floor. They might be more of a balloon to the speakers than a box dependent on car and power used. Of course that can help for IB use. The photo I posted is IIRC an '80 firebird, that trunk is very tiny.

In fact slam your trunk shut and see what the 6x9 do. Take a ported box playing loud and hold your hand on the port, there is little actual force there and much less than the relatively huge trunk lid.

Doors - lot of doors are so weak now you can push the inner panel right in and it moves when you run the power window. It should be strengthened not just deadened. I try to put wood on it inside or out with or in addition to speaker mounting. Sometimes I mount the driver in metal and put wood around it. Over any distance the sheet metal begins to flex. In the end its more a matter of what fits in the particular car. I've even screwed metal bars on to stiffen them up, sometimes lots of deadening is just like mounting the speaker in a thick rubber floor mat if the door is flimsy.
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Old 10-21-2008   #30
 
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Default Re: Help designing enclosures for rear deck 6x9's.

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Are you saying in your sig you have one 10" sub? It should not push the 6x9 around at all.
That sub is not your regular type of sub. It's an SPL sub being pushed by 800-watts RMS. Not a good idea to let the 6x9s get exposed to that.
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Old 10-21-2008   #31
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Default Re: Help designing enclosures for rear deck 6x9's.

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That sub is not your regular type of sub. It's a VBA sub being pushed by 800-watts RMS. Not a good idea to let the 6x9s get exposed to that.
Fair enough.

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Old 10-21-2008   #32
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Default Re: Help designing enclosures for rear deck 6x9's.

Well if you don't want to check them lets assume they are affected. What are you going to make the boxes out of?
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Old 10-21-2008   #33
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Default Re: Help designing enclosures for rear deck 6x9's.

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Originally Posted by tspence73 View Post
That sub is not your regular type of sub. It's an SPL sub being pushed by 800-watts RMS. Not a good idea to let the 6x9s get exposed to that.
Well since this is one of the most profoundly meanest 10" subs ever built, that it will command 2 6"X9" speakers, hanging essentially in free air, to react to "Violent Bass Air..."

Mind telling us what this sub is?

Many, Many, Many people have had rear deck speakers, especially "back in the day" that were subjected to subs in the trunk, lots of them, even pointing AT the rear of the deck speaker's cone. With nary a hint of damage.

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Old 10-21-2008   #34
 
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Default Re: Help designing enclosures for rear deck 6x9's.

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Mind telling us what this sub is?
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/blogs/%user_name%-%user_id%/a-/
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Old 10-21-2008   #35
 
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Default Re: Help designing enclosures for rear deck 6x9's.

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Originally Posted by chad View Post
Well since this is one of the most profoundly meanest 10" subs ever built, that it will command 2 6"X9" speakers, hanging essentially in free air, to react to "Violent Bass Air..."

Mind telling us what this sub is?

Many, Many, Many people have had rear deck speakers, especially "back in the day" that were subjected to subs in the trunk, lots of them, even pointing AT the rear of the deck speaker's cone. With nary a hint of damage.
It's more about trying to preserve sound quality on the rear speakers. If they are pushed around by the sub it's not going to promote quality sound.
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Old 10-21-2008   #36
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Default Re: Help designing enclosures for rear deck 6x9's.

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It's more about trying to preserve sound quality on the rear speakers. If they are pushed around by the sub it's not going to promote quality sound.
What kind of car, and is the trunk sealed, really, the pressure will dissipate rather quickly, hence why those with IB rigs work very hard to seal the trunk off.

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Old 10-21-2008   #37
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Default Re: Help designing enclosures for rear deck 6x9's.

Really the design of the Infinity Reference series is geared more toward efficiency, getting the most out of lower power applications like head units. They can handle more amp power, but they're primarily made for stock upgrade without needing massive power to drive. Only thing is, efficiency, low mass, etc. means the midbass output is going weaker when compared to a less efficient driver. I actually wouldn't be surprised if the Reference 6x9s didn't drop as low as the OEM drivers did IB to IB, while the References would be more efficient and be capable of getting much louder. Small enclosure, efficiency, low bass: You can only have two. In case of the Infinities, no real way around it if you want midbass, they'll need to be put IB or you'll sacrifice low end output. No real way around it. The enclosure required to get said low end would be so large it wouldn't be worth building.

Keep in mind I do agree with what's been stated the above in that your midbass should ideally come from the front drivers, being whatever you have up front whether it's a component set, coaxials, etc.
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Old 10-22-2008   #38
 
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Default Re: Help designing enclosures for rear deck 6x9's.

Tspence, you really need to heed the advise of others. Perhaps your lack of upper bass frequencies is due to your sub. Have you tried other subs?

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Old 10-22-2008   #39
 
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Default Re: Help designing enclosures for rear deck 6x9's.

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Originally Posted by chad View Post
What kind of car, and is the trunk sealed, really, the pressure will dissipate rather quickly, hence why those with IB rigs work very hard to seal the trunk off.
A 2007 Nissan Sentra. The trunk has not been damped yet, but it doesn't rattle yet probably because it's a newer car. My trunk lid flexes at high output, so it must generating some pressure in the trunk.

Last edited by tspence73; 10-22-2008 at 06:54 AM..
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Old 10-22-2008   #40
 
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Default Re: Help designing enclosures for rear deck 6x9's.

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Originally Posted by Dangerranger View Post
Really the design of the Infinity Reference series is geared more toward efficiency, getting the most out of lower power applications like head units. They can handle more amp power, but they're primarily made for stock upgrade without needing massive power to drive. Only thing is, efficiency, low mass, etc. means the midbass output is going weaker when compared to a less efficient driver. I actually wouldn't be surprised if the Reference 6x9s didn't drop as low as the OEM drivers did IB to IB, while the References would be more efficient and be capable of getting much louder. Small enclosure, efficiency, low bass: You can only have two. In case of the Infinities, no real way around it if you want midbass, they'll need to be put IB or you'll sacrifice low end output. No real way around it. The enclosure required to get said low end would be so large it wouldn't be worth building.

Keep in mind I do agree with what's been stated the above in that your midbass should ideally come from the front drivers, being whatever you have up front whether it's a component set, coaxials, etc.
The problem is that I have run 0db test tones of 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100, 110Hz. The results are as follows:

20Hz 110db
30Hz 115db
40Hz 115db
50Hz 115db

Then a weird acoustic anamoly happens. There is a huge acoustical absorption of this next series of frequencies. I have checked the sub amp's crossover setting and confirmed it's not any headunit sub crossover setting or bass boost. I have the same problem with the previous sub amp I used, so it's not anything with the amp. I have chalked it up to an acoustic absorption. I don't know if it's the fabric seats, panel absorbtion, etc, but it's a huge dip of 12db right after 50Hz:

60Hz 103db
70Hz 104db
80Hz 106db
90Hz 106db
100Hz 108db
110Hz 113db

Then of course the comps and 6x9s have well taken over the output and I'm able to reach a very slightly clipped output of 115db from 120Hz - 400Hz, then the rest of the frequencies beyond that are audibly clean to me with no scratchy clipping sounds. I have bought a new amp with plenty of clean output and those 100Hz - 500Hz should be non-clipped and sound clean.

The goal here is to get the 6x9s freed up to help boost that dip in frequency SPL from 60-100Hz.

Last edited by tspence73; 10-22-2008 at 07:01 AM..
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Old 10-22-2008   #41
 
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Default Re: Help designing enclosures for rear deck 6x9's.

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Tspence, you really need to heed the advise of others. Perhaps your lack of upper bass frequencies is due to your sub. Have you tried other subs?
I have scheduled my upgrade over the next year and a subwoofer upgrade is scheduled for springtime of next year. I am planning to get TWO 12" RE SE subs in a 1.2 cu ft sealed box and wiring them to 1-ohm on my A7HC sub amp which will run 700-watts RMS to each. I'm expecting a boost in SPL as well as better accuracy. The boost in SPL should allow me to equalize down the deepest bass frequencies and still have a strong output at the frequencies that are at issue in my car's acoustics.
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Old 10-22-2008   #42
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Default Re: Help designing enclosures for rear deck 6x9's.

make your sub face the rear bumper and slide it backwards and forwards { remove the 6 x 9's for this }. Use your ears or a meter to see where it sounds the loudest to you [ opening your window a little will increase the output slightly ].

You are actually, getting all you can from that sub [ a 12" Digital Designs subwoofer in a vented box will take you up a notch ].
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Old 10-22-2008   #43
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Default Re: Help designing enclosures for rear deck 6x9's.

It's the Violent Bass Air bro, be careful of that. It has been known to rip holes in the space time continuum.

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Old 10-22-2008   #44
 
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Default Re: Help designing enclosures for rear deck 6x9's.

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It's the Violent Bass Air bro, be careful of that. It has been known to rip holes in the space time continuum.
Is that your real team name or did you steal it from me?
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Old 10-22-2008   #45
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Default Re: Help designing enclosures for rear deck 6x9's.

You've never heard of that team? 2005, 2006, and 2007 USUC SPL champs. Vestax is also on the team.

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Old 10-22-2008   #46
 
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Default Re: Help designing enclosures for rear deck 6x9's.

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You've never heard of that team? 2005, 2006, and 2007 USUC SPL champs. Vestax is also on the team.
That's cool. I approve of that name.
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Old 10-22-2008   #47
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Default Re: Help designing enclosures for rear deck 6x9's.

I figured that's where you got the term from in your original post. I didn't know that you weren't aware of the team.

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Old 10-22-2008   #48
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Default Re: Help designing enclosures for rear deck 6x9's.

tspence73,

That sub is doing all it can ! [ to pooped to pop ]
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Default Re: Help designing enclosures for rear deck 6x9's.

Here is some designing fun:



I have measured the limitations underneath the rear deck where the 6x9's are mounted. I came up with a maximum possible scenario and plugged it into that website enclosure program then attached a screen shot of my box design to this post. (The 8" depth is really 7.5 but I put it at 8" to compensate for the added volume of not needing the plank of wood the 6x9 would mount to. The 6x9 mounts to the rear deck itself.)

I will guesstimate a speaker displacement of .025 based on a typical 8" sub with a 4.5 inch mounting depth with a .035 displacement. The 6x9 is 3" so I guess a .025 cuft displacement sounds about right, but due to the rear deck thickness, not all the 6x9 will be in the box, so I made an adjustment to 0.015 displacement to compensate.

So, with an estimated displacement of .015 against a .519 volume, my math tells me the likely volume will end up 5.04 cubic feet of volume. With .5 pound of polyfill I figure I MIGHT get back what I lost on the 6x9 displacement plus a tiny bit more. It all comes down to the polyfill. How much more volume will the polyfill seem to add to the sound of the box?

Last edited by tspence73; 10-22-2008 at 05:46 PM..
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Default Re: Help designing enclosures for rear deck 6x9's.

From my experience, the type of 6x9's you are using NEED an IB environment to perform....



In addition, it's not so bad that they are subjected to subwoofer frequencies....if the 6x9's are seeing power from the amplifier, this will act as a resistance to the pressure from the subwoofers......

the enclosures for your 6x9's will have to be LARGE for you to realize any benefits in the midbass region....I tried making boxes for 6x9's in the past, and was sorely disappointed.....

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