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Old 12-17-2009   #1
 
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Default Sub or Amp Clipping

How can you tell if the sub cant handle what your trying to feed it (volume and frequency) or if the amp is clipping or doesnt have enough power?

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Ive reset all of my gains (xover and amp) and even with the headunit set to a high volume the gains have to be high 50%+ to get decent volume.
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Old 12-17-2009   #2
 
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Default Re: Sub or Amp Clipping

It's kind of a trained thing to listen for, but here is a bit of advice that goes a long ways no matter what.

You are pretty much at the rated Power for that sub, so if you want it louder, you should consider going to 2 subs, or a much louder single and maybe even a bigger amp.

Otherwise turn it down.
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Old 12-17-2009   #3
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Default Re: Sub or Amp Clipping

50% gain is not really high. Remember, the gain control is there to match the output from the head unit to the input of the amp. What is your source?
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Old 12-17-2009   #4
 
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Default Re: Sub or Amp Clipping

Ripped music at 128k+ Whatever the highest quality i could get it to rip at.

im more at like 75% on subs amp and actually have to turn the mids down lower then that. I think im at like 90% on the xover gain with 0 boost and +3bass on the headunit with a +1 to 50htz

I need to play with the xover more and make sure its config'd right

Guess im trying to figure out if the sub sucks or it its the amp.
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Old 12-17-2009   #5
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Default Re: Sub or Amp Clipping

ok,

First 128k is garbage. Yuck!

Second, what is your source? LOL. I meant what are you using for a head unit. I'm trying to determine the strength of the preamp outputs you are using to feed your amplifier. The strength of the preamp outputs is what determines where your gain will have to be set. If the gain is at 90% because you have weak output from the HU and that's what it takes to match the output to the amps input you are fine.

90% on the xover gain? Do you have an external crossover? I'm confused. Could you please tell us what your signal chain consists of?

If you need more output, you may want to consider going ported or adding drivers. 500 watts should be more than sufficient to drive the type-R to satisfactory levels.
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Old 12-17-2009   #6
 
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Default Re: Sub or Amp Clipping

Pioneer Premeir 690ub so should be 4v outs >> to a memphis crossover (model unknown atm) has 2 inputs (fr/rear)3 outputs Sub/mid/high

Sub output from headunit to rear on xover/ front from headunit to front on xover.

Sub on xover to input on amp.
Mid/high to the mids amp.. ran to ppi 6.5 components

Wonder if i just need to bypass the external active xover and use the headunits xover and eq.
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Old 12-17-2009   #7
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Default Re: Sub or Amp Clipping

Yeah, why do you need the crossover? Are you running the PPI's actively?

If all you are doing is highpassing the component set, and low passing the subwoofer. I'd just pull that crossover right out and use the head unit and amplifier crossovers. Chances are that the mono amp does not allow you to run it full range, so if you are sending a low passed signal to the intput of the sub amp, and then low passing it again, possibly at a different frequency, that could possibly account for limited output.

Edit:
Re-reading this it looks like you are running your fronts active.

Here's how I would do it:
1. Run your front channels from your Head Unit into the front inputs on the crossover
2. Run the highs output to your high freq amplifier channels
3. Run the mids output to your mid freq amplifier channels
4. Run your subwoofer outputs from the Head Unit straight to the subwoofer amplifier.

Crossovers
1. Use the highpass crossover in the HU to filter the front channels somewhere at 80hz, 12db/octave
2. Use the memphis crossover to split the frequencies between your mids and highs (3.5-5k?)
3. The subwoofer outputs on the head unit cannot be full range. The highest LPF that you can assign to them is 200 hz at 6db/octave. If the subwoofer crossover is also not defeatable on the amp, which I doubt it is, you will have to tweak them both to get it to sound right. Basically you'll set one of them as high as it will go, and then set the other to the actual freq you want. OR you could set them both to the exact freq you want and have 24db/octave slope. It's just a little trickier if the sub amp crossover is variable. Ultimately you prob want the LPF at 80 too.

That should give you a baseline to make adjustments on

Last edited by DaveRulz; 12-17-2009 at 02:08 PM..
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Old 12-17-2009   #8
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Default Re: Sub or Amp Clipping

128k mp3 is likely introducing artifacts that sounds like clipping.

Anyway, clipping of the amp is more likely, because clipping the sub is first going to sound like a hell of a lot worse, like a "crack", when its bottoming out. You should get Power compression first, I would think...unless your sub box is ported OR just leaky as hell.

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Old 12-17-2009   #9
 
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Default Re: Sub or Amp Clipping

I guess its probably not the best to have an active xover and a passive for the components. Ima scrap the active xover for now and see what i can get done.

I had the sub/low on the headunit set to 50 and high set to 80. I liked the lows but felt there was too much of a gap, i set them both to 63 during lunch and it sounded better. Was loud and had punch but i also wasnt playing anything that had deep lows. Just had to adjust the bass +1-1 as needed.
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Old 12-17-2009   #10
 
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Default Re: Sub or Amp Clipping

Ima follow what you suggested dave.
I have no idea what the slopes are on the xover now without looking. Im stuck at work.
I do know ive got the lpass on the amp on and down to 50. And subsonic filter off.
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Old 12-17-2009   #11
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Default Re: Sub or Amp Clipping

that is your problem right there. Low pass at 50, it's going to sound like you have no bass. Put it up to 80, guarantee it will sound more like what you were expecting.
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Old 12-17-2009   #12
 
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Default Re: Sub or Amp Clipping

At what freq is it considered misbass? I thought i didnt want midbass freq coming from my subs.

Glad this is the supid quest forum, ive got lots of those.
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Old 12-17-2009   #13
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Default Re: Sub or Amp Clipping

I consider midbass freqs between 70 and 200 hz

There is nothing wrong with routing midbass frequencies to your sub if you don't have other speakers in your system that are capable of reproducing them. Most subs are OK pretty well above 100hz, the downside being that they become easily localized as the frequency rises.

You should only have your subs crossed that low if you have something like 8's up front installed in fully built up doors.

Turn that sub crossover up, you'll be a lot happier with the sound.
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Old 12-17-2009   #14
 
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Default Re: Sub or Amp Clipping

I just treated the doors and installed PPI 356CS and did the baffles. Dont think im going to get great midbass but should be decent
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Old 12-17-2009   #15
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Default Re: Sub or Amp Clipping

At least in the 70's, if not 60's, crossed at 12dB/oct. Should be great. When you treated the door, I assume you mean sealed off the open areas and gasketed off the Speaker from the door panel.

If your deadening was done well for the sub area, you should be able to cross around 90-100 without localizing cues. Its those rattles and resonances that we hear most, not the sub itself.

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Old 12-17-2009   #16
 
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Default Re: Sub or Amp Clipping

Yes, and yes i did a 3/4 mdf spacers to cover the 5X7 hole mounted to the door frame.
Id say it was done ok, i covered every hole i could that wasnt needed for door assymble.
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Old 12-17-2009   #17
 
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Default Re: Sub or Amp Clipping

Quote:
Originally Posted by fourthmeal View Post
128k mp3 is likely introducing artifacts that sounds like clipping.
Compression doesn't work that way.

It limits dynamic range and frequency. It doesn't "add" data where data doesn't exist, but it will sound like trash.
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Old 12-17-2009   #18
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Default Re: Sub or Amp Clipping

Quote:
Originally Posted by niko084 View Post
Compression doesn't work that way.

It limits dynamic range and frequency. It doesn't "add" data where data doesn't exist, but it will sound like trash.
Data compression doesn't limit USED dynamic range. It only raises the noise floor a tiny bit. The only way data compression would affect it in that regard is if you were playing music with a huge crest factor where you would need that dynamic range. A typical song with a crest factor of 20dB is well well above the increased noise floor of around -90db to -80dB.

Dynamic compression on the other hand does just what you mentioned. Squashes the peaks which in essence reduces dynamic range.
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Old 12-17-2009   #19
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Default Re: Sub or Amp Clipping

Yes, you were talking about dynamic compression. Compressing the incoming signal via mp3 conversion to 128k is going to add artifacts. To me it always sound like swirling wooshes or a bit of clipping.

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Old 12-17-2009   #20
 
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Default Re: Sub or Amp Clipping

Thats another debate...
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Old 12-17-2009   #21
 
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Default Re: Sub or Amp Clipping

I bypassed my active xover and now i get more sound and lower volume without changing anything. So something must be wrong with it, so its scrapped.

Now even with a cap my headlights and dash lights dim with the sub hitting. Im only pulling 500w with sub amp and 300 with mids amp. 4g to cap to dist blocks to 8g to each amp. Guess its time for a new battery?
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Old 12-17-2009   #22
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Default Re: Sub or Amp Clipping

First check for good grounds (bare metal) and that all connections are clean and tight.
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Old 12-17-2009   #23
 
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Default Re: Sub or Amp Clipping

Only had 1 ground and it went into the rear floorboard near the backwall. wasnt any paint on it. Ill double check to make sure it was tight, decent size self tapping screw, dont think it would come up.
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Old 12-17-2009   #24
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Default Re: Sub or Amp Clipping



Self tappers tend to loosen up in sheet metal, I'd recommend a bolt with a star washer. Also check ALL your Power Wire connections. If it the Power Wire is held in with set screws, take them out, cut the wire, re-strip it and put it back in ensuring the best possible connection possible.
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