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Old 08-09-2010   #1
 
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Default JBL-MS8 connections

I'm trying to route my RCA's prior to having the MS-8 deleivered, and I've read through the manual a few times, and it seems that JBL only wants ONE pair of RCA, ran as an input?? whats the point of all the other RCA input channels? In the intructions, it show that if you have a head unit with rear, and sub outputs that you shouldnt be using them? Most head units with a sub out , have a level control buklt in also, so wouldnt this be a nice clean way to control the sub level if i decide to hide the MS-8 display once the intial set up is done?

Also....how are ppl using the MS-8 connecting a sub amp that is bridged? My amp can accept a left and right sub signal and then the amp bridges that signal to run mono....should I run a left right out of the MS-8 to the amp? Or just run it mono out of the MS-8?
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Old 08-09-2010   #2
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Default Re: JBL-MS8 connections

The MS8 uses the inputs to signal sum if necessary. If you have one set of full range RCA's, you don't need to signal sum. Unfortunately you lose your deck sub level control.
There's no reason to use two MS8 outs for your sub signal, just run it mono.
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Old 08-09-2010   #3
 
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Default Re: JBL-MS8 connections

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Originally Posted by rommelrommel View Post
The MS8 uses the inputs to signal sum if necessary. If you have one set of full range RCA's, you don't need to signal sum. Unfortunately you lose your deck sub level control.
There's no reason to use two MS8 outs for your sub signal, just run it mono.

ok , cool,, makes sense about the mono sub output!

But why would JBL take up so much room on the RCA input side of the unit with 8 RCA input channels, but then only tell you to use 2 of the channels only? Technically they should only have installed 2 sets of RCA inputs then? One for Aux, and one for a Main line input?
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Old 08-09-2010   #4
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Default Re: JBL-MS8 connections

I guess for the uncommon case in which you might need to sum multiple RCA inputs? Andy may chime in on this at some point.
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Old 08-09-2010   #5
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Default Re: JBL-MS8 connections

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Originally Posted by Timelessr1 View Post
ok , cool,, makes sense about the mono sub output!

But why would JBL take up so much room on the RCA input side of the unit with 8 RCA input channels, but then only tell you to use 2 of the channels only? Technically they should only have installed 2 sets of RCA inputs then? One for Aux, and one for a Main line input?
For high end cars that have actively filtered multichannel systems. Front 3 way and rear stereo subs maybe. They tell you to use two inputs only off the assumption that your system has a typical front and rear setup only where both the front and back have similar frequency ranges. IOW you don't double up on the same output type into the MS-8, you use as many left and right channels to make a full range stereo signal.
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Old 08-09-2010   #6
 
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Default Re: JBL-MS8 connections

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Originally Posted by t3sn4f2 View Post
For high end cars that have actively filtered multichannel systems. Front 3 way and rear stereo subs maybe. They tell you to use two inputs only off the assumption that your system has a typical front and rear setup only where both the front and back have similar frequency ranges. IOW you don't double up on the same output type into the MS-8, you use as many left and right channels to make a full range stereo signal.

This is what i thought also...until i read through the instructions that are supplied with the MS-8. They seem to be VERY specific about only connecting 1 pair of Inputs, no matter what out put set up you are going to be running. I will be running a full 3 way active front set up along with a mono sub amp that accepts a stereo signal.

http://www.jbl.com/resources/Brands/...al/MS-8_OM.pdf

Page 8 shows how specific JBL is to only set up one set of RCA inputs....and i'm not complaining about that, b/c its easier and cheaper to only run one set of RAC's to the unit, my question is...why design and Build a uint with basically 6 extra RCA inputs that are not "suppose to be used" and "if" they can be use din a higher end system, it might be a good idea to update the manual to show this.
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Old 08-09-2010   #7
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Default Re: JBL-MS8 connections

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Originally Posted by Timelessr1 View Post
This is what i thought also...until i read through the instructions that are supplied with the MS-8. They seem to be VERY specific about only connecting 1 pair of Inputs, no matter what out put set up you are going to be running. I will be running a full 3 way active front set up along with a mono sub amp that accepts a stereo signal.

http://www.jbl.com/resources/Brands/...al/MS-8_OM.pdf

Page 8 shows how specific JBL is to only set up one set of RCA inputs....and i'm not complaining about that, b/c its easier and cheaper to only run one set of RAC's to the unit, my question is...why design and Build a uint with basically 6 extra RCA inputs that are not "suppose to be used" and "if" they can be use din a higher end system, it might be a good idea to update the manual to show this.
Page 8 is for aftermarket head units. The extra RCA inputs are for OEM systems with multiple actively crossed over low level outputs. For instance an OEM head unit that has balanced outputs that are too weak to go into the high level (ie Speaker level) diif balanced inputs. In that case you connect them into the low level (ie RCA inputs) diff bal. inputs. Again like the high level example in page 9, with the necessary amounts to complete the full range. At least that is how I understand it, I could be wrong though.
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Old 08-09-2010   #8
 
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Default Re: JBL-MS8 connections

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Originally Posted by t3sn4f2 View Post
Page 8 is for aftermarket head units. The extra RCA inputs are for OEM systems with multiple actively crossed over low level outputs. For instance an OEM head unit that has balanced outputs that are too weak to go into the high level (ie Speaker level) diif balanced inputs. In that case you connect them into the low level (ie RCA inputs) diff bal. inputs. Again like the high level example in page 9, with the necessary amounts to complete the full range. At least that is how I understand it, I could be wrong though.
That does make sense...I just have never seen an OEM head unit running RCA outs, or low level outs...maybe a txt output, but not low level. But hypothetically even if an OEM unit ran low level outputs, and you were able to derive an RCA pair...then according to JBL, thats all you need...just hook it up to channel 1 and 2 input....

It jsut seems to me that if you want to still use your Aftermarket radio fader and sub level control , that you'd want to use those outputs , and connect them to the multiple Ms-8 inputs. which would just mean that the Manual is what is a little "off" which is understandable
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Old 08-09-2010   #9
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Default Re: JBL-MS8 connections

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Originally Posted by Timelessr1 View Post
That does make sense...I just have never seen an OEM head unit running RCA outs, or low level outs...maybe a txt output, but not low level. But hypothetically even if an OEM unit ran low level outputs, and you were able to derive an RCA pair...then according to JBL, thats all you need...just hook it up to channel 1 and 2 input....

It jsut seems to me that if you want to still use your Aftermarket radio fader and sub level control , that you'd want to use those outputs , and connect them to the multiple Ms-8 inputs. which would just mean that the Manual is what is a little "off" which is understandable
Many OEM heads have low level outputs, its just not advertised as that or anything really. It would be the output that goes from the head unit to the OEM amplifier. Honda and Toyota have these type of outputs, only difference is that they are balanced outputs. Which can be sent into devices that have Differential-Balanced inputs.

The reason you would not want to use the EQ or tone controls from the oem head is that it sucks compared to the MS-8 and it would trow off the calibration. The OEM sub control would not be useful since all inputs need to be combined for the final calibration. I guess they could but then the unique bass management that the MS-8 employs would not be able to function. It adjust the midbass highpass Q when ever you raise or lower the sub out on it in order to maintain the same crossover frequency between the sub and the mid bass. If you raise the sub output you move the ACOUSTIC crossover frequency of the sub and midbass higher up into the midbass. This is another reason why the OEM sub would not work even if you wanted to use it after the input summation. It would still throw off the crossover frequency.



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Old 08-10-2010   #10
 
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Default Re: JBL-MS8 connections

That makes sense!! I know toyota labels their signal from their OEM headunits as a +tx and -tx...is this the low level signal you are talking about?
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Old 08-10-2010   #11
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Default Re: JBL-MS8 connections



Quote:
Originally Posted by Timelessr1 View Post
That makes sense!! I know toyota labels their signal from their OEM headunits as a +tx and -tx...is this the low level signal you are talking about?
I just checked the newer Camry's upgraded audio wiring diagram and it doesn't look like TX is audio since it does not have a shield around those wires. There is a L+/- and R+/- with a shield though, so that looks like the low level balanced stereo out signal from the head unit to the factory amp that we're talking about.

One thing with Toyota is that they don't do volume control on that signal leaving the head unit, they do it at the OEM amp through command signals. So if you are going to bypass the OEM amp to feed a processor, you'll need to do master volume control right before the processor input, at the processor, after the processor, or in the amps (JL Audio HD-RLC).
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