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Old 03-18-2017   #1
 
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Default 8 or 10

Is there a 8 or 10 inch pro midbass driver that will work in a very well sealed and dieden door, I don't want to build a box in side the door. It would be replacing JL ZR800. Thanks.
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Old 03-18-2017   #2
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Default Re: 8 or 10

beyma 8ndl51 comes to mind instantly, but before you replace the jl, I'd like to ask why? they are great midbasses, and the only reason I'd replace them personally is if I needed frequency response up higher to meet horns.

"you will need to use all 31 bands on the eq, qualifying a speaker as better cause you feel it needs lesser eq just means you're not listening closely enough."
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Default Re: 8 or 10

Yes I am entertaining the idea of horns. As everyone knows the Jl just don't play high enough.
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Old 03-18-2017   #4
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Default Re: 8 or 10

Beyma 8G40 is what the [person above was suggesting, The B&C 8ndl51 is a good driver also but not available in 4 ohms.

None of the pro audio midbass will play as low as the JL but they will have higher sensitivity and alot higher output above the knee of the roll off on the bottom end. Any decent pro driver can make it strong to the 70 to 80 Hz range so not an issue to get them to blend well with the subs.
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Old 03-19-2017   #5
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Default Re: 8 or 10

good catch! theres another beyma eight that has a bit more excursion at the expense of power handling that I actually meant..but I cant find its model number now.

"you will need to use all 31 bands on the eq, qualifying a speaker as better cause you feel it needs lesser eq just means you're not listening closely enough."
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Old 03-19-2017   #6
 
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Default Re: 8 or 10

How would it work if I went with 12 inch midbass behind the seats? Should I let the zr800 play, or unhook them?
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Old 03-19-2017   #7
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Default Re: 8 or 10

Go big or go home. Put a pair of these in the front doors muhaaa.
Voice Optimized Woofer
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Old 03-19-2017   #8
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Default Re: 8 or 10

I have or have had beyma 8s and 10s
B&C 8s and 10s
And celestion 6-8-10s
And a few audax models and some eminence models

The g40s sound the best IMO in 8"
By far the smoothest vocals I've ever heard in a car
And for a HE woofer they play decently low.

As far as g40s go the 8" sounds better than the 10.
The 10 falls off around 400hz and is more laid back in a sence
I would go for the 8g40. It's extremely hard to de disappointed with that driver

And if you do get it a Sq hint it likes to be gained low. You don't need to dump a ton of power into it although it needs a bit of headroom to sound good (meaning it won't sound good if you crank the gain to force a responce below 125hz ) so no 50w amps plz
Give it 100 true watts and you'll enjoy it a lot

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Old 03-19-2017   #9
 
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Default Re: 8 or 10

What's your pick for best HE 6.5? (Particularly one that will play reasonably low)
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Old 03-19-2017   #10
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Default Re: 8 or 10

Quote:
Originally Posted by GEM592 View Post
What's your pick for best HE 6.5? (Particularly one that will play reasonably low)
6ND430

It's a badass and plays low and can handle a holy crap ton of power

And I've hunted for this kind of speaker for a long time ....this is the one that does it all in 6-1/2.

A close 2nd is the 6NDL38 by B&C however it's 8ohm where the 18sound is 4ohm

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Old 03-19-2017   #11
 
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Default Re: 8 or 10

Quote:
Originally Posted by oabeieo View Post
6ND430

It's a badass and plays low and can handle a holy crap ton of power

And I've hunted for this kind of speaker for a long time ....this is the one that does it all in 6-1/2.

A close 2nd is the 6NDL38 by B&C however it's 8ohm where the 18sound is 4ohm
Thanks much appreciated. I would have never found that.
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Old 03-20-2017   #12
 
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Default Re: 8 or 10

Any experience with JBL 2118h
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Old 03-20-2017   #13
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Default Re: 8 or 10

Quote:
Originally Posted by t-roy View Post
Any experience with JBL 2118h
Yes. Own a set I'm currently doing a full rebuild on with new powder coating
And new OE recones


It's amazing above 300hz but can't get low.

In a enclosure it can play to about 100 but it's mostly the box ringing that makes the output not the radiation.

Mated with a jbl annular ring CD it's the best sound I've ever heard in a car from 630-2k but just lacks down low.

The cones are flimsy thin and has low xmax and wasn't designed to go much lower than about 250-300hz (unless you like distortion)

The 8g40 has a smoother 125-800hz response and makes it a better fit for a horn


If it were in a home situation where the sub could play up to 250hz I would definitely use the 2118 over the g40 only because I like crossing my horns around 1.6k


But for crossovers in car around 1k or lower the g40 really is a solid choice it performs well up to 1k, it will play higher than 1k but after 1k it has stop band attinuation issues, meaning the acoustic crossover wants to go beyond the electric one and has some noticeable breakup modes as it approaches 2k
Where as the 2118 is just getting going at2k

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Old 03-20-2017   #14
 
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Default Re: 8 or 10

Ok thanks
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Old 03-20-2017   #15
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Default Re: 8 or 10

with the sub up front, you could play it to a higher low-pass frequency. that way, you can cross the doors higher and you don't have to deal with all the door-mounted driver challenges.

6nd430 is a cool driver.

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Old 03-21-2017   #16
 
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Default Re: 8 or 10

I will mess with crossover points to see how the sub sounds
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Old 03-21-2017   #17
 
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Default Re: 8 or 10

Quote:
Originally Posted by t-roy View Post
Any experience with JBL 2118h
Don't put too much stock into the one review posted here, the JBL's are indeed a bad ass driver when mounted in the appropriate enclosures, and given a proper tune.

Steve Head (audionuts) uses them in his Blazer which has been getting rave reviews at the big shows. He has them mated up with a 6" midrange, and 15" subwoofers, so they must be doing just fine in the midbass department.

It's all about application and install. If you only spend a couple of hours installing and tuning them, then they probably won't live up to their potential. It takes time and effort.

You can read about his Blazer here:

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Old 03-21-2017   #18
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Default

Could any he be used in a more traditional 2 way?
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Old 03-21-2017   #19
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Default Re: 8 or 10

Quote:
Originally Posted by SQram View Post
Don't put too much stock into the one review posted here, the JBL's are indeed a bad ass driver when mounted in the appropriate enclosures, and given a proper tune.

Steve Head (audionuts) uses them in his Blazer which has been getting rave reviews at the big shows. He has them mated up with a 6" midrange, and 15" subwoofers, so they must be doing just fine in the midbass department.

It's all about application and install. If you only spend a couple of hours installing and tuning them, then they probably won't live up to their potential. It takes time and effort.

You can read about his Blazer here:

Meca, Iasca and DbDrag Unified Finals 2016

When I had my midbasses in small sealed boxes with a 15db gain at100-125hx people LOvED them....but it's wasn't correct and very colored sounding.

Steve head.....so what... he wouldn't be the 1st person to make a 2118 work as midbass , that's not that hard really. Just need that box tho...:/


Not to say his car isn't nice I never listened to it. But in no way just because Steve head made the 2118h work in one install does that proclaim it better...

The 2118 is a bad ass just like you say,
The g40 just does better and doesn't need an enclosure ( with extra emphasis on bass frequencies not midrange ) the 2118 is a better midrange sure ,
The g40 will still play to 1k with just as much fidelity
Otoh if the g40 was in a proper enclosure it would knock the socks off the jbl when it comes to midbass performance. Let the specs speak for themselves


It's not a matter which is better it's a matter how you implement it.

Can the sub play past 90hz and still sound good?



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Old 03-22-2017   #20
 
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Default Re: 8 or 10

My point is that it has ample output below 300Hz. when installed properly, contrary to what you wrote above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oabeieo View Post
It's amazing above 300hz but can't get low.

In a enclosure it can play to about 100 but it's mostly the box ringing that makes the output not the radiation.

The cones are flimsy thin and has low xmax and wasn't designed to go much lower than about 250-300hz (unless you like distortion)
Stuffing the 2118 in a small sealed box and boosting the lower frequencies is a bad idea, it's no wonder it didn't sound good. Most people run them either A/P or I/B and let them breathe. Are there other options to consider? Of course, but don't post misinformation regarding the 2118 because you didn't install them properly.

No, this isn't a new screen name.

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Old 03-22-2017   #21
 
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Default Re: 8 or 10

As much as I would like to use the 2118 I think it would hit the window track. The Beyma or B&C would be easier to fit.
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Old 03-22-2017   #22
 
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Default Re: 8 or 10

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Stevens View Post
Beyma 8G40 is what the [person above was suggesting, The B&C 8ndl51 is a good driver also but not available in 4 ohms.

None of the pro audio midbass will play as low as the JL but they will have higher sensitivity and alot higher output above the knee of the roll off on the bottom end. Any decent pro driver can make it strong to the 70 to 80 Hz range so not an issue to get them to blend well with the subs.
This guy right here has some pro 8's and other goodies coming out at some point. You can see a few prototypes in the HLCD area in a few threads.
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Old 03-22-2017   #23
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Default Re: 8 or 10

Quote:
Originally Posted by SQram View Post
My point is that it has ample output below 300Hz. when installed properly, contrary to what you wrote above.



Stuffing the 2118 in a small sealed box and boosting the lower frequencies is a bad idea, it's no wonder it didn't sound good. Most people run them either A/P or I/B and let them breathe. Are there other options to consider? Of course, but don't post misinformation regarding the 2118 because you didn't install them properly.

No, this isn't a new screen name.


lol that's cute.

So I used 4 different boxes
.4 sealed .7 sealed
.4 ported .7 ported

The smaller sealed boxes had the most amount of midbass output
OTOH the larger ported box sounded the least colored .
The issue was linear xmax is so small it would sound fantastic at lower volumes

I prefer things a little bit louder and it just exceeded the physical limitations of the speaker .






Misinformation?

How so?
How can an opinion be misinformation ?

How can physical parameters between two drivers ( that I did not list I just urged you them out for yourself ) be even an argument.


I never said anything about boosting lower frequencies if anything that is Misinformation ,

To clarify what I actually said I said throwing in a small tiny sealed box would give it up to 15 DB gain to clarify what I actually said I said throwing in a small tiny sealed box would give it Up To15 DB gain at 100-125hz , I was referring to the box ringing. And making a point that everybody that listened to that enclosure loved them , well I thought it sounded colored and resonance.



Don't bother quoting me. It's pointless.
I think I'm going to give this forum a indefinitely long break.




Quote:
Originally Posted by SQram View Post
the JBL's are indeed a bad ass driver when mounted in the appropriate enclosures, and given a proper tune.

Okay so now it's AP/IB ---I thought you just said they need to be in the right enclosure


Man, that's really gay how you take a good intellectual argument and turn it into a personal attack.

If your the sqram I've talked to before on here that had the vertas horns and tried all kinds of drivers like the TAD. Dood what happened! Your being mean! I thought we were friends

If your not the same sqram and someone else also called sqram , you sure do react to things the wrong way.


I'm done.....it's been fun for sure.

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Old 03-23-2017   #24
 
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Default Re: 8 or 10

I'll keep it short because I'm not here to get in a pissing match, nor am I attacking you. This is what I'm referring too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oabeieo View Post

The cones are flimsy thin and has low xmax and wasn't designed to go much lower than about 250-300hz (unless you like distortion)
That's hardly written like an opinion. Here is a quip from the JBL 2118 design sheet:



So you tell me who's right? To somebody who doesn't know any better, they might overlook the 2118 when in fact it does quite well in that passband in the right circumstances. I mentioned Steve Head because he is well known in the industry, and his success using the 2118 carries more weight than my opinion. Mark Eldridge is another, the list goes on.

And just to clear things up, I'm not comparing the 2118 to anything, I said above that there are plenty of options out there.

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Old 03-23-2017   #25
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Default Re: 8 or 10

Quote:
Originally Posted by SQram View Post
I'll keep it short because I'm not here to get in a pissing match, nor am I attacking you. This is what I'm referring too.



That's hardly written like an opinion. Here is a quip from the JBL 2118 design sheet:



So you tell me who's right? To somebody who doesn't know any better, they might overlook the 2118 when in fact it does quite well in that passband in the right circumstances. I mentioned Steve Head because he is well known in the industry, and his success using the 2118 carries more weight than my opinion. Mark Eldridge is another, the list goes on.

And just to clear things up, I'm not comparing the 2118 to anything, I said above that there are plenty of options out there.
So I never said it can't play to 70. It just had limited output and the box ringing was louder than most would desire in a car.

Man I own a set and used them for almost a year as midbass, no one is denying it's isn't a good midbass....but as a midbass the beyma performed better.
Didn't "need" an enclosure to get ample output and the sound was largely un-colored

Even with its smaller xmax sure put it in a ported box to control movement and it can be good , I was just making the point the beyma just works better.


Sorry wasn't trying to diminish steves build , again we all know Steve can build some great things it's wasn't meant to discredit him, but it was a "so what if he uses it it's a good speaker" kinda statement.

That's where I think you were over reacting,
Anyway. Got to work. Ttys

im so in love with my speakers I found a song I sing to them

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