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Old 11-01-2016   #301
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Default Re: First-timers guide to measuring your system

Quote:
Originally Posted by naiku View Post
I have it set to 400Hz at the moment, doubt I will go any lower than that. About the only thing it really struggles with is something like Adele, at higher volume they distort quite a bit.

Going to try getting these 4" speakers in there at some point as that will make life easier I think on both the mids and midbass.
Not to hijack the thread away from its purpose here but Fountek FR89's, or GR Research LGK 1.0's come to mind to solve the problem. I used the FR88 and 89, both awesome units. The RS75 fits in smaller places due to sheer diameter but the FR89EX is really quite close in total size, but with excellent lower playing ability (usable excursion is excellent.) I put one in tiny a "pod" in a Vette door, crossed very low (for experimentation), was able to play cleanly down to ~200hz or so, very easily. Settled on 500hz for other reasons but the speaker didn't mind and the REW measurements showed very little distortion all the way down to 150hz or so.

Wavecor is also also a great choice, but their rectangular shape may not help with the size issue. The FR89EX has a tiny baffle area and squeezes in places.


OK back to the program.

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Old 11-02-2016   #302
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Default Re: First-timers guide to measuring your system

Quote:
Originally Posted by fourthmeal View Post
OK back to the program.
Yep (but thanks for the info on potential new mids if I can't get the ES04 in there).

So... this happened:



Just need to see if I can do anything about the dip at 150Hz on the left midbass. Oh yeah, it sounds amazing

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Last edited by naiku; 11-03-2016 at 08:46 AM..
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Old 11-02-2016   #303
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Default Re: First-timers guide to measuring your system

Quote:
Originally Posted by naiku View Post
Yep (but thanks for the info on potential new mids if I can't get the ES04 in there).

So... this happened:



Just need to see if I can do anything about the dip at 150Hz on the left midbass. Oh yeah, it sounds amazing

Looking great Ian. I'd bring the areas under and over that dip down to meet it. Starting with 100-400. Then 800-5k or so.


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Old 11-11-2016   #304
 
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Default Re: First-timers guide to measuring your system

Hi, I've got as far as measuring and importing and auto eqing, destroyed a tweeter in the process..

The question I have is, when are you setting gains on the amp? There's a lot of talk of levels but when do I set my amp gains? I'll be doing it by ear.
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Old 11-11-2016   #305
 
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Default First-timers guide to measuring your system

Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyb View Post
Hi, I've got as far as measuring and importing and auto eqing, destroyed a tweeter in the process..



The question I have is, when are you setting gains on the amp? There's a lot of talk of levels but when do I set my amp gains? I'll be doing it by ear.

The maximum level of the gains needs to be set first - it's your baseline 'thou shalt go no louder' point. You can turn the gains down from there to suit your tuning needs, but never above it.

The key enemy here is heat. The watt rating for a speaker is the maximum RMS wattage the speakers can handle without overheating.

When gains are set too high, the signal is clipped. It sounds bad, but far worse is that instead of getting short bursts of power, and cooling most of the time, the speaker gets long powerful bursts of current, with no time to cool.

It's kind of like the engine in your car: the cylinder has bursts of very high temperatures, but most of the time the cylinder is cooling off.

If you took the same metal and gave it constant exposure to the full heat of burning gasoline, it will melt.


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Old 11-11-2016   #306
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Default Re: First-timers guide to measuring your system

Did you have your crossovers set properly?

Shouldn't burn up a tweeter just from measuring/eq-ing.
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Old 12-22-2016   #307
 
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Default Re: First-timers guide to measuring your system

So...I have been following this and a few other REW threads for a week or so now and starting to tune my system with a MiniDSP C-DSP. So far I am starting with the TA, using Jazzi's charts and simple measuring (for now), then level matching, and half-way through measuring response and averaging, then matching the house curve. The problem is, I cant seem to get the EQ, that I save both as .txt, (export filter settings as txt) and "save this filter set" using the top EQ Filters section to load on the DSP. I save them, but when I go into the C-DSP and try import, it looks for the file and "loads" but never shows up in the chart or eq points under Advanced. Any idea what I am doing wrong or how can I get them in there.

I did manually enter the numbers for each PEQ point, but thats very time consuming and I would like to find out how to do this properly. Also is there a way to do more than 6 PEQ? It seems like I get better results of I use Generic for Equalizer vs MiniDSP.
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Old 12-22-2016   #308
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Default Re: First-timers guide to measuring your system

Strange.
Maybe... Which setting in rew did you use for the eq? One of the top right boxes, you can select mini, mini96k, mini 2x8 etc. be sure to use the simple mini for the C.

Then maybe you should measure each driver first, then eq each driver, then level, then ta, then global eq (input).

Horny Froggy...
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Old 12-22-2016   #309
 
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Default Re: First-timers guide to measuring your system

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elgrosso View Post
Strange.
Maybe... Which setting in rew did you use for the eq? One of the top right boxes, you can select mini, mini96k, mini 2x8 etc. be sure to use the simple mini for the C.

Then maybe you should measure each driver first, then eq each driver, then level, then ta, then global eq (input).
So, I think I tried a few diff ones, but I will make sure to keep the EQ on "MiniDSP" only. However what is the format of the EQ txt file supposed to be? I will post an example here in a min. For measuring, now that I think about it, I did not put any TA in there yet, so that should not be an issue but I think my main issue here is with the Target Level. Mine seems to be about 62db. I guess each speaker measurement I take I need to make sure to level up and match this level right?
Here is an example txt file:
Code:
Filter Settings file

Room EQ V5.17
Dated: Dec 22, 2016 10:55:25 PM

Notes:

Equaliser: MiniDSP
Dec 22 19:11:56
Filter  1: ON  PK       Fc     198 Hz  Gain  -7.1 dB  Q  5.27
Filter  2: ON  PK       Fc     284 Hz  Gain  -6.7 dB  Q  5.00
Filter  3: ON  PK       Fc     287 Hz  Gain  11.0 dB  Q  5.00
Filter  4: ON  PK       Fc     511 Hz  Gain  -4.0 dB  Q  5.00
Filter  5: ON  PK       Fc     761 Hz  Gain  -2.7 dB  Q  1.00
Filter  6: ON  PK       Fc     780 Hz  Gain   5.1 dB  Q  5.00

Last edited by banshee28; 12-22-2016 at 09:11 PM..
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Old 12-22-2016   #310
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Default Re: First-timers guide to measuring your system

I just copy-paste the biquads

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Old 12-23-2016   #311
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Default Re: First-timers guide to measuring your system

Quote:
Originally Posted by banshee28 View Post
So, I think I tried a few diff ones, but I will make sure to keep the EQ on "MiniDSP" only. However what is the format of the EQ txt file supposed to be? I will post an example here in a min. For measuring, now that I think about it, I did not put any TA in there yet, so that should not be an issue but I think my main issue here is with the Target Level. Mine seems to be about 62db. I guess each speaker measurement I take I need to make sure to level up and match this level right?
Here is an example txt file:
Code:
Filter Settings file

Room EQ V5.17
Dated: Dec 22, 2016 10:55:25 PM

Notes:

Equaliser: MiniDSP
Dec 22 19:11:56
Filter  1: ON  PK       Fc     198 Hz  Gain  -7.1 dB  Q  5.27
Filter  2: ON  PK       Fc     284 Hz  Gain  -6.7 dB  Q  5.00
Filter  3: ON  PK       Fc     287 Hz  Gain  11.0 dB  Q  5.00
Filter  4: ON  PK       Fc     511 Hz  Gain  -4.0 dB  Q  5.00
Filter  5: ON  PK       Fc     761 Hz  Gain  -2.7 dB  Q  1.00
Filter  6: ON  PK       Fc     780 Hz  Gain   5.1 dB  Q  5.00

Don’t know what kind of file is that, looks more like a generic EQ export.
The biquad txt file should look something like this:
It’s the «*save filter coef to file*» down in the filter tasks tab

For the target level you can choose whatever you want per driver, they don't have to match. You’ll adjust global levels later.
So here the idea is more to select a target that is close to your measurement. More or less depending of your system, if you want to cut or boost etc.
You’ll have to play with all settings in filter task to see which result is «*flatter*», then re-measure to see by yourself.

Horny Froggy...
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Old 12-23-2016   #312
 
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Default Re: First-timers guide to measuring your system

Thanks guys...I will look at the "save filter coef to file" since I dont think I choose that one yet, so maybe thats whats missing! Will try that and see how it works.
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Old 01-07-2017   #313
 
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Default Re: First-timers guide to measuring your system

I just now started tinkering with this guide and I figured I would condense Hanatsu's posts into one guide which can be downloaded and printed if need be...I included it as a .pdf format for ease of use. Hope someone can make use of it. I tried to include a .docx file for enabling hyperlinks as well, but I could not include it as an attachment.

Thank you Hanatsu for the awesome work and time you put into this guide. I look forward to getting further into it as time passes.
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Old 01-07-2017   #314
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Default Re: First-timers guide to measuring your system

thanks sq2k1, much easier to keep up with! a few things I missed that you layed out nicely.

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Old 01-08-2017   #315
 
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Default Re: First-timers guide to measuring your system

what you just stated crackinhedz is why I condensed it down to a single pdf.... scouring through forum posts can be a pain if you need to look something up while doing the actual measurements. But I am glad you find it useful.
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Old 01-08-2017   #316
 
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Default Re: First-timers guide to measuring your system

Quote:
Originally Posted by sq2k1 View Post
I just now started tinkering with this guide and I figured I would condense Hanatsu's posts into one guide which can be downloaded and printed if need be...I included it as a .pdf format for ease of use. Hope someone can make use of it. I tried to include a .docx file for enabling hyperlinks as well, but I could not include it as an attachment.

Thank you Hanatsu for the awesome work and time you put into this guide. I look forward to getting further into it as time passes.
Thanks for putting that together. Perhaps you could upload the text version to a Google doc. That way, you could leave the hyperlinks in.

Again, thanks.
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Old 01-18-2017   #317
 
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Default Re: First-timers guide to measuring your system



Are these cross over numbers correct? My tweeters are meant to be crossed at 2k, but ive had to put in some funny numbers into rew to get the curve to align.

|I followed the guide including setting the xovers in rew but now i have only 4 filters to use as ive used 2 of the 6 for xovers. I have a c-dsp. Would it be better to use the extra 2 filters and just let the dsp set the xovers? Im amazed ive got this far tbh.

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Old 01-18-2017   #318
 
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Default Re: First-timers guide to measuring your system

text too small

Well my 2 xover slopes are 750hz each for the 24 db slope to match the house curve. I didnt like most of the auto eq that rew gave me so i just adjusted the q's down to less than 1 for the other 4 filters.
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Old 01-18-2017   #319
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Default Re: First-timers guide to measuring your system

You have your tweeters crossed at 750Hz? Am I understanding you correctly?
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Old 01-18-2017   #320
 
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Default Re: First-timers guide to measuring your system

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elgrosso View Post

For the target level you can choose whatever you want per driver, they don't have to match. You’ll adjust global levels later.
So here the idea is more to select a target that is close to your measurement.
So i can use a different target level per driver? I was under the impression I had to take the the quietist driver set the taget level and then apply that to each and every other driver before doing the eq?

It would be waaay easier to do it as youve said.
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Old 01-18-2017   #321
 
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Default Re: First-timers guide to measuring your system

No, using Jazzis spreadsheet, i put all the details of my drivers in and it generated the house curve you see in the pic. I set them in speadsheet at 2k for the tweeters. To get the xover in REW to match the house curve though ive had to input a HP at 750 hz @ 12 db twice to generate a 24db slope that matches the house curve. God that sounds confusing.


Running HSK165xl with a HX250 in a tuned box, Alpine PDXV9 and mini c-dsp.

Last edited by dannyb; 01-18-2017 at 01:41 PM..
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Old 01-18-2017   #322
 
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Default Re: First-timers guide to measuring your system

I think its something to do with electrical and acoustic xovers, im trying to understand.

For the people with a mini c-dsp, how have you over come the fact that after you've set your crossovers, you've used 4 bands of peq already which only leaves 2 for the rest of the driver. Feel a bit short changed :/

Last edited by dannyb; 01-18-2017 at 05:29 PM..
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Old 01-24-2017   #323
 
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Default Re: First-timers guide to measuring your system

So I followed the guide and tuned my system and the result is so much better than prior.... I can only imagine how well going parametric would be as compared to GEQ....but nonetheless, I am pleased with the results(for now )
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Old 02-15-2017   #324
 
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Default Re: First-timers guide to measuring your system

Hi everybody,
I hope I am at the right place to get some advise ;-)

I am new to the measuring and tuning thing, I have just purchased a UMIK-1 and started to study REW. Reason is, that I upgraded my DSP (Sony XDP-210) to the bigger XDP-4000x, which offers much more tuning possibilities (ok, compared to today's DSPs it is probably somewhat limited ;-)).

So I did my first measurings last weekend and tried to eq the FR. I also read a lot about how to use REW here in the forum and thanks to all who donated their valuable time, knowledge and experience!!

However, there is one thing, that still puzzles me...and this is regarding the target settings under the auto EQ tab. I am not sure, what is the optimal setting here for my case.

What is my case? I would like to eq the response for my left and right channel (separately). My system consists of a simple 2-way component set plus a subwoofer. The sub is crossed actively by the XDP-4000x at 99Hz and 72db/octave (same freq and slope for the 6.5" woofer here) whereas the tweeters are crossed by the passive x-over coming with the set (Alpine SPX-177r).

I would like to EQ the complete channel (e.g. L + sub). What would be the right target settings with regards to speaker types, frequencies and slopes in this autoEQ section? Is the x-over freq of my sub (99Hz) relevant here and if so, how does that need to be considered? Or is it completely irrelevant and all these settings here are purely used to shape the overall target curve? And what would the ideal target curve for my case look like?

Any feedback/input is very much appreciated! Thanks!
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Old 02-15-2017   #325
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Default Re: First-timers guide to measuring your system

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Originally Posted by My98RT10 View Post
Hi everybody,
I hope I am at the right place to get some advise ;-)

I am new to the measuring and tuning thing, I have just purchased a UMIK-1 and started to study REW. Reason is, that I upgraded my DSP (Sony XDP-210) to the bigger XDP-4000x, which offers much more tuning possibilities (ok, compared to today's DSPs it is probably somewhat limited ;-)).

So I did my first measurings last weekend and tried to eq the FR. I also read a lot about how to use REW here in the forum and thanks to all who donated their valuable time, knowledge and experience!!

However, there is one thing, that still puzzles me...and this is regarding the target settings under the auto EQ tab. I am not sure, what is the optimal setting here for my case.

What is my case? I would like to eq the response for my left and right channel (separately). My system consists of a simple 2-way component set plus a subwoofer. The sub is crossed actively by the XDP-4000x at 99Hz and 72db/octave (same freq and slope for the 6.5" woofer here) whereas the tweeters are crossed by the passive x-over coming with the set (Alpine SPX-177r).

I would like to EQ the complete channel (e.g. L + sub). What would be the right target settings with regards to speaker types, frequencies and slopes in this autoEQ section? Is the x-over freq of my sub (99Hz) relevant here and if so, how does that need to be considered? Or is it completely irrelevant and all these settings here are purely used to shape the overall target curve? And what would the ideal target curve for my case look like?

Any feedback/input is very much appreciated! Thanks!
What you are asking for is on the topic of "target" or "house" curve.. That's where your personal taste for tonality will come into play a bit. There are some somewhat established norms, but in the end, it's what sounds balanced, smooth and coherent to you. I've been told all kinds of stuff like "flat from 200hz up" and 20db total delta between 20hz and 20khz. I think after enough tuning, you'll establish a tonality that's balanced for your car. I don't believe there's any single curve that's right for all cars or systems. Crossover settings are relevant in that crossover regions you want to keep an eye out for any destructive FR stuff that may happen due to phase or timing being out etc. Other than that, the overall tonality should be smooth without spikes or peaks (narrow unavoidable dips can be forgiven). And possibly even more important, left=right.

2008 Civic Si Sedan - Sony RSX-GS9, Helix DSP Pro-2 & Director, JL Audio XD1000/5v2 (2), Audiofrog GB10 & GB25, Stereo Integrity TM65, Acoustic Elegance SBP12 (2)
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