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Old 07-21-2015   #26
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Default Re: How to Tune a DSP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Indeblanc View Post
I found your videos on Utube before this here. I think they are very informative, Thank you for sharing. I do have to do a lot of sifting and jumping around for a newb like me. I look forward to seeing a step by step of first things first, " ...After you have all your gear in....etc". Do this, then this, then this, and that.

Something I can follow would be a blessing. None the less this is surely something to add in to other videos to get me started from top to bottom.
Some are doing it while in the car, others NOT in the car...etc.
Also, I have seen people take RTA readings with the zero axis head on narrow angle of the mic, and I seen your ear to ear 90 degree version, and then yet I have heard to take readings of the tweeters in dash from opposite sides of the Car for better results.

(left tweeter, right passenger window/right tweeter, driver window). etc...

Does it make a difference? Why?, and how? and is there a measurable better method?
I'll try to answer..

1) To apply it, watch them in series as they're numbered in order and perform them the same, from crossovers through levels and TA through into individual driver EQ etc etc. These methods are just the method Kyle shows and as he states, there are many methods and orders of events, none really wrong. It's what works for you. The measurements from the mic and your two organic mics (ears) will let you know.

2) There are a gazillion different methods from measuring outside the Car with mic in the headrest, etc etc.. 90 off-axis or point on-axis with the mic. Erin has a vid showing this as a demonstration on taking RTA noise measurements outside the car. Don't sweat the small stuff. If using 90 degrees, try to have a mic with 90 degree calibration file loaded in REW. Measuring inside the car is just easier and takes into account your actual person as part of the "room" which will have an acoustic affect on response.

3) This method is also for a single seat tune, thus he is measuring the averages around one noggin, driver seat. So the mic moving during the averages are done around that noggin. So as thus, it'd make no sense for measurements with mic in any other spots.. be it left or right tweet, mid etc. Measure at your head if tuning to sound perfect at your head.

... In fact, I'd bet, for two-seat tune, if I had to guess, you'd take your measurements head height right between the two head positions for an equal average tune at both head locations. There might be other factors there uniquely measured at each head location, but that might be one method for 2-seat tune.


By the way.. A while back I put all these in a playlist for my own benefit and quick referal. I just found out you can manually order them so I put them in order from top/down 1-12. Starting at the top.. And a 1.. and a 2..

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...27aRyUIUvMIMO0

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Old 07-21-2015   #27
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Default Re: How to Tune a DSP

do you think I was serious ? :-)

Thanks so much for that Babs....I'll work through them next tune sitting.

Maybe the answer is to have Tune parties. That way we have an exuse to put all this time in. And with drinks all things start to sound better. :-)
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Old 07-21-2015   #28
 
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Default Re: How to Tune a DSP

EXCELENT! Thank you.

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Old 07-21-2015   #29
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Default Re: How to Tune a DSP

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Originally Posted by Phil Indeblanc View Post
do you think I was serious ? :-)

Thanks so much for that Babs....I'll work through them next tune sitting.

Maybe the answer is to have Tune parties. That way we have an exuse to put all this time in. And with drinks all things start to sound better. :-)
cant really tell on the internet lol


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Old 07-21-2015   #30
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Default Re: How to Tune a DSP

look for the light humor, not the dark truth.
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Old 07-21-2015   #31
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Default Re: How to Tune a DSP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Indeblanc View Post
do you think I was serious ? :-)
Ah ya never know around these parts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Indeblanc View Post
Maybe the answer is to have Tune parties. That way we have an exuse to put all this time in. And with drinks all things start to sound better. :-)
Always works for me.. Then I get in the Car the next day and I'm like WTF!!

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Old 07-21-2015   #32
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Default Re: How to Tune a DSP

A 90 degree calibration file......LOL
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Old 07-21-2015   #33
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Default Re: How to Tune a DSP

question, if anyone can answer...

In the video when RTA'ing the individual driver, he made note that the driver was still producing harmonics outside of the crossover slope...for instance, the midbass was lowpass crossed at 300HZ @ 24db LR (if I recall correctly) but during measurement he was still picking up random sound in the 1khz-2khz range...

Observing his EQ graph, everything outside the crossover slope was left at 0 db.

Would it not benefit to drop the frequencies outside the crossover ranges to lowest possible level, -12db or whatever your DSP allows? This way those frequencies have less chance to even come into play?

Or is a harmonic just unavoidable sometimes?

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Old 07-21-2015   #34
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Default Re: How to Tune a DSP

He may have meant to say the top end freq of the mid bass is 300 and lower. Likely his mid picks up from 300 to 2000 or so. Just guessing verbiage, I forgot if he had a 3way or not ?:-)
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Old 07-21-2015   #35
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Default Re: How to Tune a DSP

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Originally Posted by Phil Indeblanc View Post
He may have meant to say the top end freq of the mid bass is 300 and lower. Likely his mid picks up from 300 to 2000 or so. Just guessing verbiage, I forgot if he had a 3way or not ?:-)
correct, but hes measuring the driver by itself. He indicates that the crossover shows rolloff but a ways higher up in freq there is still some residual response.

I will have to go back a check out the spot im referring to.

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Old 07-21-2015   #36
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Default Re: How to Tune a DSP

thats how crossovers and their slopes work. crossovers arent a dead stop. theyre a gradual roll off. and no it wouldnt benefit by cutting the eq after the crossover. you would just use a steeper slope. but, various slopes are used to help the drivers blend into each other


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Old 07-21-2015   #37
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Default Re: How to Tune a DSP

Yes, from what I can see happening I would agree with the cat above.

The freq tapers after the point and the dB's help dictate how sharply. Q I have yet to figure out how and when to use, but I think I read someone say it is more for sub/bass. So if you need freq cut, maybe start much sooner or later, but that would be very experimental as this is just to see if it stops, not if it sounds good :-)
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Old 07-21-2015   #38
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Default Re: How to Tune a DSP

Ok went back and rewatched Vid 8 about 10 minute mark...left midbass

He ends up dropping the crossover to like 150hz, but stil has flat response to like 300-400 then rolls off and the a slight bump at 550hz.

Mentions cabin gain affecting this region, so I guess I can see why the crossover isnt the end all be all like Skizer mentioned (and of course I know frequency doesnt fall off a cliff, rather rolls off depending on the crossover type).

I was simply wondering if lowering the EQ band outside the crossover range would effectively aid the crossover in any way. I mean, could it not hurt to set a midbass 2khz to -12db than to keep at 0 db? I know the crossover should never let the midbass w/ 200hz crossover really even see 2khz signal, but would it hurt to do it this way in conjunction with a crossover?

Or is it just pointless and so I should forget such a wacky idea? Just trying to learn.

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Old 07-21-2015   #39
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Default Re: How to Tune a DSP

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Originally Posted by crackinhedz View Post
Ok went back and rewatched Vid 8 about 10 minute mark...left midbass

He ends up dropping the crossover to like 150hz, but stil has flat response to like 300-400 then rolls off and the a slight bump at 550hz.

Mentions cabin gain affecting this region, so I guess I can see why the crossover isnt the end all be all like Skizer mentioned (and of course I know frequency doesnt fall off a cliff, rather rolls off depending on the crossover type).

I was simply wondering if lowering the EQ outside the crossover range would effectively aid the crossover in any way. I mean, could it not hurt to set a midbass 2khz to -12db than to keep at 0 db? I know the crossover should never let the midbass really even see 2khz signal, but would it hurt to do it this way in conjunction with a crossover?

Or is it just pointless and so I should forget such a wacky idea? Just trying to learn.
pointless. you would just use a steeper slope


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Old 07-21-2015   #40
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Default Re: How to Tune a DSP

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pointless. you would just use a steeper slope
I guess I just didnt see him change his slope (or maybe he tried), just lowered the crossover freq. But cabin rise was fighting against him.

Oh well, not curious anymore. Thanks SkizR.

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Old 07-21-2015   #41
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Default Re: How to Tune a DSP

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I guess I just didnt see him change his slope (or maybe he tried), just lowered the crossover freq. But cabin rise was fighting against him.

Oh well, not curious anymore. Thanks SkizR.
no problem. i wouldnt bother with eq to far after the crossover unless the was an abnormal peak


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Old 07-22-2015   #42
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Default Re: How to Tune a DSP

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A 90 degree calibration file......LOL
I'm pretty sure that's what cross spectrum sent me in the 3 cal files.
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Old 07-22-2015   #43
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Default Re: How to Tune a DSP

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I'm pretty sure that's what cross spectrum sent me in the 3 cal files.
What Mic is it? Usually measurement mics are omnidirectional. One file is probably flat, one a-weighted, and one c-weighted

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Old 07-22-2015   #44
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Default Re: How to Tune a DSP

It's the UMM6 USB. I got it from cross spectrum. They sent 3 cal files with it on a USB stick.
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Old 07-22-2015   #45
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Default Re: How to Tune a DSP

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What Mic is it? Usually measurement mics are omnidirectional. One file is probably flat, one a-weighted, and one c-weighted

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Cross Spectrum Labs sends On Axis, 45 degree and 90 degree off axis cal files. I have the same UMM6 and that's what they sent me.

High freq sounds tend to roll off when measuring off axis. The off axis cal file compensate for that.


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Old 07-22-2015   #46
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Default Re: How to Tune a DSP

On/Off axis in regards to how you hold thd mic, or how the Speaker is aiming?

I have a Dayton UMM, but not from Cross Spectrum so only the one cal file. Should I be pointing the tip of the mic in direction of the soundstage vs. Pointed up at the roof?

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Default Re: How to Tune a DSP

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Originally Posted by crackinhedz View Post
On/Off axis in regards to how you hold thd mic, or how the Speaker is aiming?

I have a Dayton UMM, but not from Cross Spectrum so only the one cal file. Should I be pointing the tip of the mic in direction of the soundstage vs. Pointed up at the roof?
The mic cal files are based on where the mic is aiming.


0 degree on-axis means the mic is pointed directly at the sound source.

45 degree means mic pointed 45 degrees off-axis.

90 degrees would be pointed perpendicular to the sound source.

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Old 07-22-2015   #48
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Default Re: How to Tune a DSP

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Originally Posted by subterFUSE View Post
Cross Spectrum Labs sends On Axis, 45 degree and 90 degree off axis cal files. I have the same UMM6 and that's what they sent me.

High freq sounds tend to roll off when measuring off axis. The off axis cal file compensate for that.


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interesting. i always thought that it was omnidirectional


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Old 07-22-2015   #49
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Default Re: How to Tune a DSP

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interesting. i always thought that it was omnidirectional
Depends on frequency.

Most mics will have a high frequency rolloff based on directivity. That's why we get them calibrated.


Very similar to how all speakers eventually beam, depending on frequency.

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Old 07-22-2015   #50
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Default Re: How to Tune a DSP

Yep. My UMM-6 came with 0, 45 and 90 cal files for "narrow band" and "1/3 octave" each. Taking a guess, using REW, I have 90 narrow band loaded as the cal file for tuning as Kyle demonstrated in the vids.


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2008 Civic Si Sedan - DEX-P99RS, Helix DSP Pro-2, JL Audio XD1000/5v2 (2), Audiofrog GB10 & GB25, Stereo Integrity TM65, Acoustic Elegance SBP12 (2)
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