Some of you guys may have been buying planar tweeters instead of real ribbons. I'm guessing the walmart ones are planars. In some of these cases, the planar tweeters are indeed open back and you may want to enclose them.
The poor vertical dispersion is ameliorated with a short height split ribbon element see LCY, with foam attachments see RAAL or if I'm correct the texture of the element itself and faceplate design again see RAAL.
The challenges of using ribbons in a car are many, and the dispersion is one of the last in my mind. The ribbon material itself is very fragile, mounted high the wind f*&ks with it, mounted low you may get debris on it, always use a cap inline. I found the high temperatures to stress the ribbon, glue, and special magnet coatings. Lastly mounting it is a bitch, you need lots of room and to angle it properly if you don't want the dispersion to be very limited. Unless you pair with a very small midbass, like a good 6.5 max you will get too much distortion out of them. Use preferably in a 3 way crossed 4,000hz or higher.
Given you follow most of this religiously you will get a sound that's very different the the average 1 inch dome. It's neat and very rewarding.
What kind of cap needs to be used? I have looked on parts express and seen some 250v caps, as well as 400v caps. The 250 are much more expensive. Just curious what the difference is and which ones I should use. Hopefully the 400v ones! Save some money
What kind of cap needs to be used? I have looked on parts express and seen some 250v caps, as well as 400v caps. The 250 are much more expensive. Just curious what the difference is and which ones I should use. Hopefully the 400v ones! Save some money
I used the same ones npdang posted on the first page of this thread: Solen 27uF poly cap
Ok, First off the voltage rating is completely dependent on the power you are sending to the Ribbons. I cant imagine you sending enough power to kill either of these capacitors before destroying your tweeter. I dont understand why you would use 27uF on an 8 ohm tweeter. Mathematically this is a 725hz 6dB corssover. That seems incredibly low. Maybe Npdang has experience that shows why he used this. I just search the internet for my answers Check out the calc at http://www.the12volt.com/caraudio/crosscalc.asp to determine what capacitor to use. Note you are looking at "C1" for a 6db crossover. http://www.lcy.com.hk/shopimages/251...ication-01.jpg
These are LCY's suggested networks.
For a simple crossover try this which nets you a ~2000hz 6db crossover.
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Great insight into transcending the fine lines between car and home audio! I have always loved the sound of ribbon tweeters on home monitor speakers. Higher speaker sensitivity is always a plus.
Some of you guys may have been buying planar tweeters instead of real ribbons. I'm guessing the walmart ones are planars. In some of these cases, the planar tweeters are indeed open back and you may want to enclose them.
The poor vertical dispersion is ameliorated with a short height split ribbon element see LCY, with foam attachments see RAAL or if I'm correct the texture of the element itself and faceplate design again see RAAL.
The challenges of using ribbons in a car are many, and the dispersion is one of the last in my mind. The ribbon material itself is very fragile, mounted high the wind f*&ks with it, mounted low you may get debris on it, always use a cap inline. I found the high temperatures to stress the ribbon, glue, and special magnet coatings. Lastly mounting it is a bitch, you need lots of room and to angle it properly if you don't want the dispersion to be very limited. Unless you pair with a very small midbass, like a good 6.5 max you will get too much distortion out of them. Use preferably in a 3 way crossed 4,000hz or higher.
Given you follow most of this religiously you will get a sound that's very different the the average 1 inch dome. It's neat and very rewarding.
Good advice for the most part, George, although I'm not so sure about the "follow most of this religiously" as it's not exactly gospel in my experience. I've never used a cap in-line with ribbons and have yet to fry one. The LCY and AC tweeters are perhaps more apt for your suggestions, but the RAAL's I've owned and used in my system defy the norm. Particularly, my OEM-only 70-20XR's were used up on the dash and in each corner and were x-ed to my ATC mids at anywhere between 1.8 kHz 4th order to 3.2 kHz 2nd order and are among the best, if not the best, tweeters I've used. Yeah, you're reading it right... they are designed to operate, if I'm remembering the exact specs correctly, with an electrical first order that yields an acoustical 4th order at 1.8 kHz.
"Drugs won't change you. Religion won't change you. What's the matter with you?"
Ok, First off the voltage rating is completely dependent on the power you are sending to the Ribbons. I cant imagine you sending enough power to kill either of these capacitors before destroying your tweeter. I dont understand why you would use 27uF on an 8 ohm tweeter. Mathematically this is a 725hz 6dB corssover. That seems incredibly low. Maybe Npdang has experience that shows why he used this. I just search the internet for my answers Check out the calc at http://www.the12volt.com/caraudio/crosscalc.asp to determine what capacitor to use. Note you are looking at "C1" for a 6db crossover. http://www.lcy.com.hk/shopimages/251...ication-01.jpg
These are LCY's suggested networks.
For a simple crossover try this which nets you a ~2000hz 6db crossover.
The inline cap is not supposed to work as a crossover network, not in the usual sense. It's there to protect the fragile ribbon element from turn on thumps or even the occasional oh S*&t moment where you forget to put a HP filter on it. The filter is low on purpose, so that you can choose your HP and not have to worry overlapping with the cap effects.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin k.
Good advice for the most part, George, although I'm not so sure about the "follow most of this religiously" as it's not exactly gospel in my experience. I've never used a cap in-line with ribbons and have yet to fry one. The LCY and AC tweeters are perhaps more apt for your suggestions, but the RAAL's I've owned and used in my system defy the norm. Particularly, my OEM-only 70-20XR's were used up on the dash and in each corner and were x-ed to my ATC mids at anywhere between 1.8 kHz 4th order to 3.2 kHz 2nd order and are among the best, if not the best, tweeters I've used. Yeah, you're reading it right... they are designed to operate, if I'm remembering the exact specs correctly, with an electrical first order that yields an acoustical 4th order at 1.8 kHz.
Well Kevin the gear you use is not exactly the norm, nothing in your arsenal is commonly used, heck I don't think anyone on the site has either OEM Raal (not even the common Raal), ATC mids, or the tricked out C2k. In the low end of the spectrum there are much more fragile ribbons that can't handle the low crossover points or the turn on thumps from low to mid end amplifiers. The gear you own is the exception, not the norm.
ATC are rare but not impossible to find. I have use a 24" planar in the car before and its a bitch to mount but rewards you with a pass band of 500hz to 18khz or so. you gotta eq the top end alittle to get it to shine. one driver with 100w covering that much pass band makes for a very unique sound normal found only in high end systems
ATC are rare but not impossible to find. I have use a 24" planar in the car before and its a bitch to mount but rewards you with a pass band of 500hz to 18khz or so. you gotta eq the top end alittle to get it to shine. one driver with 100w covering that much pass band makes for a very unique sound normal found only in high end systems
24" planar! How & where did you mount it? Do you have any pics?
The were mounted in the apillar of a mini van with about 2" depth behind them. i have removed them months ago for proto typing other planars in the van. i will make sure i take pics from now on since i have had alot of request to show how they were mounted.
the sound stage is beyond normal, having 500hz and above on axis with minimal reflections makes for very easy to listen to at very high levels. its one of those moments were you sit back and listen to music for hours in your car because it sounds so good and very wide sound stage.
What are you all using to power your ribbons? I'm looking for a high quality low poweramp to power some BG Neo3 PDR tweeters! Any recommendations?
Also, any input on ribbons vs. planar magnetic tweeters? I use Aurum Cantus ribbons in my home speakers but have heard excellent (albeit slightly different sounding) results in the home audio world from the Neo3's and other BG's along with Magnepans and other planar magnetic drivers. Seems to me like the price is right with the neo3's and they seem like they would possibly be easier to mount (A-pillar stock Bose tweeter location). Anyways I'm going to give them a try.
Anyways back on track, amp suggestions anyone?? Thanks for any recommendations.
I use the Jl audio 300/4 for ease of adjustment front stage. 24db sloped crossovers really help being built into the amp. Plenty of power to do what you want and allows you to make changes quickly. Drop me an email p928gts1@yahoo.com and I can go over some basic install tips for the build and tuning you front stage after you have power turned on
Good luck
Robert
Re: Using Ribbon tweeters in the car
Check out the calc at h
How & where did you mount it? Do you have any pics?
Linear Mode
