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Old 05-19-2008   #26
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Default Re: How to make your RTA with $100 dlls.

Payed with the RTA this Sunday.
Put the mic where my head would be, sat in the back seat with the laptop and the C701 controller, got only the right speakers playing and started measuring. I then tryed to get it as flat as possible with the C701. After I got it the best I could, did the same thing on the left channel and then with both channels together.
Let me tell you I'm impressed with the results.
Tonality wise it's a totally different system.
Before this I've been listening to the Focal 1 cd for one week non stop.
After the "tune" I could hear a lot of thinks that I've never heard before.
I'm going to read and learn as much as I can on how to properly tune with one of this, but the differencie is HUGE.
And I didn't even knew what I was doing.

Jorge

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Old 05-19-2008   #27
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Default Re: How to make your RTA with $100 dlls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by doitor View Post
After the "tune" I could hear a lot of thinks that I've never heard before.
I'm going to read and learn as much as I can on how to properly tune with one of these, but the difference is HUGE.
And I didn't even know what I was doing.

Jorge
I would love to find some kind of class in Los Angeles.

I've also had really good results from using PC Based Measurement Software and I don't have a clue as to what all the settings are for.
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Old 05-19-2008   #28
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Default Re: How to make your RTA with $100 dlls.

Doitor, take note on the graph you shared, you have a 20db swing on frequency response. My point is that flat could be more accurate if you change the db setting so it gets down to 5db differences between large graph points. also try averaging as Npdang suggested

Just trying to help my teammate out

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Old 05-19-2008   #29
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Default Re: How to make your RTA with $100 dlls.

also, I thought you werent a controller / laptop kinda guy?? The 701 was supposed to be all you need?? You are learning jedi knight!! j/k lol.


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Old 05-19-2008   #30
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Default Re: How to make your RTA with $100 dlls.

Thanks for the info, Red.
I know there's a LOT to learn.
Just starting with this and really like the results.

Jorge.

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Old 05-20-2008   #31
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Default Re: How to make your RTA with $100 dlls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ge0 View Post
I dumped the Behringer mic in favor of a binaural summed and averaged solution. I use this in combination with long measurement averages to come up with a pretty damn realistic tonal balance and stage presentation.
Do you have your mic placement/aiming in any threads already? If not, would you care describing?
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Old 05-23-2008   #32
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Default Re: How to make your RTA with $100 dlls.

I received the final piece of my setup today. Everything worked fine out of the box. Setup was easy.

One question/comment however. Correct me if I'm wrong but all of the steps regarding 'calibrating your sound card' really do not apply if you are not using the analog in/out on your card. If you are using MicMate or similar (USB-based), the sound card doesn't even come into play IMO.

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Last edited by BlackSapphire; 05-23-2008 at 06:02 PM.. Reason: Clarity
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Old 05-24-2008   #33
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Default Re: How to make your RTA with $100 dlls.

Thanks for this thread. Following suit, I just picked up the mxl mic mate and behringer ecm8000 mic from ebay. Not counting shipping, the price is the same as your title, but with shipping it put me $10 over.

Anyway, please keep the posting going as I'll have to learn to use this as well, but for self tuning or just seeing what is going on, this seemed like an awesome way to go for the DIY person.

Any updates?

Also, are you guys using any type of mic stand or bracket to hold the mic?

And, are you using any sort of test tones or tracks during measurement?

Thanks.
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Old 05-24-2008   #34
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Default Re: How to make your RTA with $100 dlls.

I'm glad that this thread helped you out.
You might want to read ndpang's much more advanced posts on how to use an RTA (Tuning your car using a pc based measurement setup), and I'm sure you can find a lot of good info using search.
I bought a mic clamp at my local guitar center. Something like the one posted a couple of posts above and clamp it to the head rest.
As for material used for the test, most people use pink noise, but there's also a tutorial about using test tones to get every frequency in the center of the dash, but I don't remember where I found that one.
Let me look and I'll post here when I find it.

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Old 05-24-2008   #35
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Default Re: How to make your RTA with $100 dlls.

I'm still learning too but here is what I think....

Two ways to do this.

1. Play a quality pink noise track (autosound 2000 cd or similar) at 0db reference. Raise volume to some level (need help here- 70db sufficient?). Do RTA with this setup and freeze the FR graph to see where you're at. You could also tweak EQ settings in real time and watch the results on the FR graph.

2. Tie the output of your soundcard into the various inputs on your amplifier/EQ/whatever and do a 'quick sweep' on the RTA/MLS software. This generates the tone and then records it via the mic.

One method uses your headunit to generate the tone, the other uses the RTA/MLS program to generate the tone.

Experts, Are both ways acceptable?

Also, I purchased a 'low-profile mic stand with boom'. They're only $20 and give you lots of flexibility.

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Old 05-25-2008   #36
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Default Re: How to make your RTA with $100 dlls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by supersaag View Post
Is there a "special" mic needed? And if were using a USB connection for the mic, as Doitor did, we dont need to measure the FR of the computer do we?
Yes, a special mic is needed. If you google this particular mic you will find that it is specially designed for analysis and measurement:

"The ECM8000’s linear frequency response and omni-directional polar pattern allows you to carry out measurement and alignment tasks with minimum hassle and maximum precision, making it a perfect complement to any real-time analyzer."

Most mics do not exhibit these characteristics.
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Old 05-25-2008   #37
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Default Re: How to make your RTA with $100 dlls.

The sound card does not come into play because the usb port is being used to transmit the audio information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSapphire View Post
I received the final piece of my setup today. Everything worked fine out of the box. Setup was easy.

One question/comment however. Correct me if I'm wrong but all of the steps regarding 'calibrating your sound card' really do not apply if you are not using the analog in/out on your card. If you are using MicMate or similar (USB-based), the sound card doesn't even come into play IMO.
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Old 05-25-2008   #38
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Default Re: How to make your RTA with $100 dlls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snaimpally View Post
The sound card does not come into play because the usb port is being used to transmit the audio information.
Exactly what I figured. I wonder if there is anything interesting with respect to TA. I mean, the analog audio out of the soundcard is sending the sweep to the connected equipment. The ECM8000 is recording the output via the USB Audio Codec.

Food for thought...

Anyway, I was playing with it today on my home system. Anyone think the first track of the 'Straight Outta Basstown' CD emphasizes the lower octaves? LMAO

It's a great way to find all of your room rattles. My wife had set a plant on top of the sub. It pretty much walked itself off onto the floor.


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Old 05-25-2008   #39
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Default Re: How to make your RTA with $100 dlls.

Doitor, many thanks for this info. I did not think I could afford an RTA setup and instead it is very affordable. I plan to order the mic and interface in the next few weeks. I use my laptop to configure my RF 3sixty.2 so I should be able to switch back and forth to see how adjustments in eq affect the RTA.
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Old 05-25-2008   #40
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Default Re: How to make your RTA with $100 dlls.

I think the setup works great. The MicMate is much better than expected.

Yes, thank you Doitor!

So far, I've used this setup with TrueRTA, Fuzzmeasure Pro3, and Room EQ Wizard. Great results and no hiccups so far. Luckily the ECM8000 is so popular that find finding mic calibration files for it is easy.

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Old 05-25-2008   #41
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Default Re: How to make your RTA with $100 dlls.

Glad I can help.

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Old 05-25-2008   #42
 
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Default Re: How to make your RTA with $100 dlls.

Hey Jorge did you find the post that shows how to get the image centered with test tones?
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Old 05-26-2008   #43
 
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Default Re: How to make your RTA with $100 dlls.

Is the frequency response of MicMate flat enough for ECM8000?
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Old 05-26-2008   #44
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Default Re: How to make your RTA with $100 dlls.

Draw your own conclusions:



MicMate

Scarborough, ON, MXL Microphones, the professional audio division of Marshall Electronics, is pleased to announce the introduction of their new MicMate Universal USB Microphone Interface. Designed as an incredibly easy-to-use tool that enables any dynamic or condenser microphone to be connected to a personal computer, the new MicMate opens up the world of recording to anyone with a desire to capture crystal clear, professional quality audio. This versatile, compact interface makes capturing audio for podcasts, adding dialog to presentations, recording live performances , and a host of similar applications as simple as connecting any other USB peripheral.

Working with the new MXL MicMate is a pleasure. As a plug and play device for both Windows and Macintosh, it requires no special drivers whatsoever. Simply connect the MicMate’s USB cable to a computer’s USB port, and installation is quick and effortless. The new MicMate is a USB 2.0 high-speed device that is backward compatible with USB 1.1. With a cylindrical form factor roughly equal in size to a Cuban cigar, the MXL MicMate’s operation couldn’t be more intuitive—and as for its performance, let’s just say it ‘smokes’ the competition.

The MXL MicMate is sonically transparent and adds no coloration to the sound of the attached microphone. The analog section of the new MicMate features a 20 Hz-20 kHz frequency response, and a 3-position, switchable attenuation pad with settings for Hi (0 dB), Medium (-5 dB), and Lo (-10 dB), making it easy to configure the attached microphone to virtually any sound source. The digital section features a 16-bit Delta Sigma A/D converter with a sampling rate of 44.1 kHz and 48 kHz. For use with condenser microphones, the MicMate supplies 48V Phantom power.

Wayne Freeman, MXL’s Director of Sales and Marketing, commented on the company’s new offering, “The new MXL MicMate Universal USB Microphone Interface makes interfacing both dynamic and condenser microphones into the desktop recording environment an effortless, completely seamless process. Now, amateurs and professionals alike have a plug and play solution for integrating high quality audio into a wide range of recording applications. I’m confident customers will be pleasantly surprised by its easy operation.”

The MXL MicMate Universal USB Microphone Interface carries an MSRP price of $99 and will be available in Q3 of 2007.

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Old 05-27-2008   #45
 
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Default Re: How to make your RTA with $100 dlls.

Thanks a lot for the bandwidth information (i.e. 20 Hz-20 kHz) of MicMate. I cannot find this on their website. Will definitely buy one and try.
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Old 05-28-2008   #46
 
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Default Re: How to make your RTA with $100 dlls.

Thanks for the tutorial man. Mine's on its way. Now I just need a laptop. lol.

EGO
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Old 05-28-2008   #47
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Default Re: How to make your RTA with $100 dlls.

No laptop required. I think it'll all work by osmosis actually.

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Old 05-29-2008   #48
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Default Re: How to make your RTA with $100 dlls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by egoaudio View Post
Thanks for the tutorial man. Mine's on its way. Now I just need a laptop. lol.

EGO
No problem
Glad to help.
Si then it's not $100 for you.

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Old 05-29-2008   #49
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Default Re: How to make your RTA with $100 dlls.

Quote:
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No laptop required. I think it'll all work by osmosis actually.
So where would you plug the mic?
LOL.

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Old 05-30-2008   #50
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Default Re: How to make your RTA with $100 dlls.

Quote:
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So where would you plug the mic?
LOL.

Jorge
Bend over, I'll show ya.

LOL..... sorry, just being goofy. Hey Doitor, I just got a nice Canare 15' mic cable. It works so much better now not having that mic plugged directly into the micmate. It's much easier to move around and not stress the connections. Also I noticed that if you plug the mic directly into the mic-mate, you have to remove that metal ring to get the XLR connector to fully seat. Not the case with a real XLR mic cable.

I've got a little mic boom setup coming today (but no Car to try any of this in). Oh the humanity.

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