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Old 01-27-2009   #26
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

Awesome post 86mr2, thanks for sharing your results.

I've had similar issues with system sounding too bright after Imprint. I seem to have the best results when I set the tweeter level so it averages slightly higher (by 1-2db or so) than the target curve. This forces the Imprint to cut rather than boost. For some reason, when Imprint boosts in the treble it can give some really odd results. I then set the tweeter level 3-6db lower than the midbass. How much depends on crossover point, and what I want the final response to look like. I have only personally used the H650, no real experience with the 9887, but it looks like they're quite similar.

BTW, did you change your sub/mid crossover points at all after running Imprint? Npdang in his initial review mentioned these cause a problem dip at the crossover frequency, which I don't see in your results. I seem to be having a similar phasing issue with the default crossover points so I always have to experiment with them after calibrations... Maybe its just an H650 bug...

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Old 01-27-2009   #27
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

Normally, I set the sub/mid crossover before running Imprint. In the past, the few times I let Imprint set the crossover itself I was not satisfied. I experimented with 63, 80, 100, and 125.

Since I had more power available for the mids I decided to try something different.
This time, I actually set the sub/mid crossover flat and let Imprint set the crossover itself. I have to be honest, this has provided the most consistently up front bass I have ever had.

It looks like there is a hole centered around 100Hz, which does make me wonder if there is a phase issue, assuming Imprint set the crossover at 100. I will try reversing phase on the sub and see what happens. Probably screw something else up.

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Last edited by 86mr2; 01-27-2009 at 06:26 PM..
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Old 01-29-2009   #28
 
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

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Old 03-26-2009   #29
 
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

I'm planning the install of a PXA-H100 Imprint to an iDA-x200 head unit. Simple question, but I can't seem to find the answer. After the thing is set up what happens when I disconnect the battery? Do I have to reload the settings from the software or do they remain in memory?

I thought it would be useful in determining how accessable the PXA-H100 is in terms of hooking up the computer.
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Old 03-26-2009   #30
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

A great thing that solves a lot of problems is a line driver. I have the tru technology ssld6 and I lower the sub output from the start and raise the comps... Afterwards I lower the comps and raise the sub. Let's me get way tighter bass than just adjusting the sub gain on the amp.
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Old 04-15-2009   #31
 
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

Completed the instalation of the PXA-H100 with the iDA-x200. Ran into a bit of trouble with the -2 error code. I ran the AI-Net cable from the head unit to the processor box and another from the processor to an XM radio. Error code -2.

Called Alpine support. Was told that the XM needed to come from the head unit with the processor at the end of the line. Still got the -2 code. Ran just the processor off the head unit (disconnected the XM) and the program ran fine. Hooked the XM back up the way Alpine suggested and everything seems to be fine. The Alpine guy said the AI-Net pasthrough on the processor should be used by nothing other than a CD changer. Nothing about this in any of the manuals.

Love the result.
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Old 08-23-2009   #32
 
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints

Quote:
Originally Posted by 86mr2 View Post
I may try Chris from Audessy's recommendations one day when I'm bored.
This day came for me today. I had a couple of hours to kill so why not play with the Imprint again.

For the drivers seat I usually have been doing the following:
  • #1 position - Center of headrest, 4" forward.
  • #4 position - 3" to the left of center and 4" forward.
  • #5 position - 3" to the right of center and 4" forward.
  • #6 position - 4.5" to the right of position #5 (Almost to the edge of my seat) and 4" forward.

I changed #6 position to the same as #1 position, but to 7" forward (Per the Audessy suggestion.) I perfer this result better than my previous routine. I've only had like 15 minutes listening to it this way, so things may change, but so far....

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Old 08-23-2009   #33
 
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints

Quote:
Originally Posted by tusk View Post
This day came for me today. I had a couple of hours to kill so why not play with the Imprint again.


For the drivers seat I usually have been doing the following:
  • #1 position - Center of headrest, 4" forward.
  • #4 position - 3" to the left of center and 4" forward.
  • #5 position - 3" to the right of center and 4" forward.
  • #6 position - 4.5" to the right of position #5 (Almost to the edge of my seat) and 4" forward.
I changed #6 position to the same as #1 position, but to 7" forward (Per the Audessy suggestion.) I perfer this result better than my previous routine. I've only had like 15 minutes listening to it this way, so things may change, but so far....

is it better than the positions given by the alpine tech guy?
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Old 08-24-2009   #34
 
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

I personally liked the Audessy way a bit better. YMMV.

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Old 10-07-2009   #35
 
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

Hey guys,

I just read this whole thread and very usefull information in here!!

My problem though has been unique from all the ones I've read here.

I have a 2003 BMW M3 and I'm current running Focal 165 K2P speakers in the front and Focal 130KP's in the rear powered by a JL 450/4 Amp.

My sub is a Jl 12W6V2 with a 500/1.

To compensate for the sub bass problem... I just turned my gain all the way down as suggested. The sub hits fine and I'm very satisfied with it.

My main problem though is all my midbass from my Focal's are gone!! Before tuning, they would hit somehwat hard. (Not as hard as a factory WRX... I will explain below) Now after tuning and the MultiEQ on either Reference or Reference w/mid comp... they hit a LOT LESS... and once I start my car (loud exhaust) I can barely hear them, nor feel them when the multi EQ is turned on. My buddy with a WRX and his factory system bumps soooo hard with the bass turned up... I feel the seat and door panel pounding against me. I cannot believe my $700 focals with 150Watts and a Alpine head unit isn't giving me the same feeling. Even my 99' 4Runner with factory POS JBL speakers +amp and a nice old school alpine head unit has much more bass coming from the front doors. My doors are not dynamated just cause I heard the e46 BMW door is already well insulated. Will dynamating it make a huge difference?

Pretty much... is there any way I can setup my system to trick the Imprint to give me more midbass?

I noticed the tutorial requested that the sub amp gain be turned all the way down and the crossover to be turned off. Would it be beneficial to turn on the crossover to 65Hz and try to trick the imprint in giving more 65-200Hz to my focal midbasses by only letting the sub play 65Hz and under?

Also, my mids and highs are kind of muddy now... not clear and sharp anymore. They were definitely a bit too bright before (when a girls vocal or a top hat hit... my ears would pierce)... but now... it sounds really bad... like it's muffled.

Is there any way I'm supposed to set my focal crossovers? I have them at -3dB's for the tweeters to dumb down the brightness right now...

Also... does messing with the EQ and audio settings before I tune with imprint actually make a difference? I would hope not. Are these settings supposed to be 0'd? (bass, treble, subwoofer level... etc)

Thank you in advance for your replies.



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Old 10-07-2009   #36
 
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

The settings will make a difference, atleast with the tweet / mid xover. I run activly and that is whjere my adjustments are made. I THINK the mid / sub over is in the same boat, but I've just been using what imprint comes up with. Everything else should be set to zero. Play with those gains if need be.

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Old 10-07-2009   #37
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

To get your midbass from the focals back...lower the xover on the sub. Imprit is trying to send it through that, which is good for stock speakers. Make ure xover on the focals isn't too high also.

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Old 10-07-2009   #38
 
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

I had the same problem. I let the Imprint setup the crossover and I lost all midbass from my JBL's. I went back in and changed the xovers and it made a huge difference. I'm not sure if I screwed something up by doing it but it sounds much better.

On a side note. Coming from an old HT guy but newer to CA. When you go into the crossovers in the setup, it lists low, med, and high. I assume that if I'm running a 2 way active, only low and med will have any effect? Or would it be low and high? Also, what would be the point of setting the low and medium separate from each other? My JBL's -3 point is 50 hz so I set the xover for 63 at an 18 db slope. If setting the JBL's at 63, wouldn't you also want the sub at 63 to get the best blend?
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Old 10-07-2009   #39
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

no matter what you set the xover at...imprint will make its own. I checked the files once and imprint had set my front mid to xover at 40. Thats one of the reasons I ditched the imprint...you can trick it to do 1 thing but, then it does another thing to combat what you changed.

Its amazing technology but it just refuses to allow the user to give the orders. Really designed for plug and play...no more.

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Old 10-07-2009   #40
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

I was under the assumption that if used with a 9887 it uses the set x-over the user inputs. The H650 probably has the issue you're referring to but I doubt that applies to 9887+KTX-100


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Old 10-07-2009   #41
 
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

Quote:
Originally Posted by I800C0LLECT View Post
I was under the assumption that if used with a 9887 it uses the set x-over the user inputs. The H650 probably has the issue you're referring to but I doubt that applies to 9887+KTX-100
That's what I though with the 100 as well. I ran the Imprint which gave me anemic midbass, then went in a turned it off and re set the crossovers to my preference. When I went back in and selected curve 1, I still had the better midbass. Obviously this defeats the run and I need to redo it, but it seems that the Imprint will respect the set xovers. I'll re run to make sure.
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Old 10-07-2009   #42
 
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

Thanks for this. Very helpful.

Those that have the software running on Vista, are you running 32 or 64 bit? I cannot get the software to run successfully on my Vista 64 laptop, I get the connection error.

I am running the 2.10 software with iDA-X305 and PXA-H100.

When I first installed the software, I didn't run it as administrator. I uninstalled it and reinstalled it as administrator, then I restored the laptop to the day before I installed the software, but I wonder if that first install sans admin rights isn't blocking the proper USB connection. I am at a loss.

Sorry to hijack the thread.

Last edited by Crusadis; 10-07-2009 at 10:32 PM..
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Old 10-07-2009   #43
 
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusadis View Post
Thanks for this. Very helpful.

Those that have the software running on Vista, are you running 32 or 64 bit? I cannot get the software to run successfully on my Vista 64 laptop, I get the connection error.

I am running the 2.10 software with iDA-X305 and PXA-H100.

When I first installed the software, I didn't run it as administrator. I uninstalled it and reinstalled it as administrator, then I restored the laptop to the day before I installed the software, but I wonder if that first install sans admin rights isn't blocking the proper USB connection. I am at a loss.

Sorry to hijack the thread.
At least you got it to run on Vista. I had to borrow a friends xp machine to get it to work. I had a bunch of problems initially with connection as well. Make sure all cables are connected and the deck is turned on before you attempt to open the program. One time I had to reboot the computer with the cables attached and then open the program to get it to work. It's real buggy about this.
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Old 10-08-2009   #44
 
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibanzil View Post
To get your midbass from the focals back...lower the xover on the sub. Imprit is trying to send it through that, which is good for stock speakers. Make ure xover on the focals isn't too high also.
gotcha... this makes sense.

I turned the crossover completely off on the sub... so I'm guessing the imprint was trying to get 200Hz or so outta the sub... LOL

I usually cross at 60Hz between the mids and subs... is this a good point?

Btw I'm running the passive crossovers from focal for the tweeter to mid cross... so I don't think I'll have any adjust ability there.
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Old 10-08-2009   #45
 
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

Quote:
Originally Posted by fastlane View Post
At least you got it to run on Vista. I had to borrow a friends xp machine to get it to work. I had a bunch of problems initially with connection as well. Make sure all cables are connected and the deck is turned on before you attempt to open the program. One time I had to reboot the computer with the cables attached and then open the program to get it to work. It's real buggy about this.
Thanks fastlane, will try this tomorrow.
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Old 10-08-2009   #46
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

Imprint defeats all settings on the headunit...if it didnt, everyone could get 3way active to work. If your midbass wont extend to what imprint wants, it will just force it out of the sub. Look at your graph from imprint...make sure your "after curve" sits around the same height as the "before". If everything lays well above the "before" then your gains were too low and imprint is boosting the sh_t outa everything.

As for xover point...there is no "1 size fits all", just know this...it takes 1 hell of a midbass to extend to 60hz keeping up with the levels that subs are ran.

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Old 10-08-2009   #47
 
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibanzil View Post
Imprint defeats all settings on the headunit...if it didnt, everyone could get 3way active to work. If your midbass wont extend to what imprint wants, it will just force it out of the sub. Look at your graph from imprint...make sure your "after curve" sits around the same height as the "before". If everything lays well above the "before" then your gains were too low and imprint is boosting the sh_t outa everything.

As for xover point...there is no "1 size fits all", just know this...it takes 1 hell of a midbass to extend to 60hz keeping up with the levels that subs are ran.
Hmm so where would you recommend I cross a Focal 165 K2P driver at?
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Old 10-08-2009   #48
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

I normally xover mids at 80hz on a 12db/oct. slope, changes with different setups though. I would also use that for the imprint, which would protect them from imprint trying to cross them too low. Listen to it w/o imprint on, get an idea of what xover points work best and then run imprint...imprint will set its own but your settings will at least try to force some sort of outcome from it.

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Old 10-11-2009   #49
 
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

Over here i had the same problems flightz71 ran into.
I also have a x305 with a h100 and the K2P's. (also in a bmw e46 ;-) )
I spent a few day trying to get it right.

Here is what i did:

1 make a setup in manual mode that sounds ok to you
2 disable all filtering facillities on your amps for the K2p's ( no xover)
3 Set your xover for your sub to the point desired (75 hz for me)
4 Make sure your gains are set pretty high for your k2p's. (3/5 open i did)
5 Turn your sub gain down, and i mean all the way down.
6 Run the imprint on the front left position, doing all possible measurements.
7 I uploaded the LINEAR curve, as it had much more midbass for me.
8 After uploading the curve, i cranked up the sub gain.
9 Done!


This was for me the best possible setup, providing me the low-end power the K2P should run with IMHO
It really sounds great now :-)
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Old 10-26-2009   #50
 
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

It is a tutorial thread, not a review, not a good vs. bad, not a buy it or don't buy it thread. Information For a specific product. Keep it ON topic.


Helix DSP PRO
Dual Brax MX4s
Dyn Esotar ~430s~110s
Micro-Precision 7.16 MKIII
Dual Focal 33KX IB
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