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Old 11-09-2009   #51
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibanzil View Post
Imprint defeats all settings on the headunit...if it didnt, everyone could get 3way active to work.
This is incorrect for the 9887. Imprint respects the crossover settings in the headunit. This can be confirmed by using an RTA after tuning.

The last few times I ran Imprint I even let it set the sub crossover. I am not a bass head and prefer higher sub crossovers for better integration anyway. I get very consistent up-front bass.

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Old 12-08-2009   #52
 
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

Quote:
Originally Posted by fastlane View Post
At least you got it to run on Vista. I had to borrow a friends xp machine to get it to work. I had a bunch of problems initially with connection as well. Make sure all cables are connected and the deck is turned on before you attempt to open the program. One time I had to reboot the computer with the cables attached and then open the program to get it to work. It's real buggy about this.
FYI - I have run it on both Vista, and now on Windows 7, both 64 bit.

Even though aspnet on Win 7 should be backward compatible to 1.1, you also need to load the ASPnet 1.1 pack, which I did first.

The trick is that the drivers for the serial interfaces have to get picked up from windows update, the ones on the disk are quite old.

What I did was install the software, take my laptop into the garage, where I still have wireless access, and plug in the usb/mic connections and turn on the HU.

Windows detected two devices (a serial device and a usb device if I recall), and it took a bit, but windows update did find the drivers.

Once they loaded, with everything still connected to the HU, I ran the software and it worked fine.

When I ran it on Vista the ASPnet wasn't an issue.
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Old 03-25-2010   #53
 
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

Great tips, I was initially kind of disappointed with how imprint sounded in my truck but after doing multiple tests and adjusting things i'm pretty happy with it overall for normal listening but definitely not if i want to show off the bass in my system even though i do have it adjusted to my liking with bass under normal listening

details on my system
2000 GMC Sonoma extended cab
Alpine iDA-X100 w/ PXA-H100 processor
all mid/highs are Infinity Kappa's (older versions from early mid 2000's)
2 x 4x6 Plates in the dash
2 x 6-1/2" components in the doors
2 x 6x9's in sealed boxes mounted to the rear of the cab firing upward
1 x 12" fosgate T1 sub in a custom built box i made myself, slot ported 2.25 cu ft tuned to 34hz
1x Fosgate Power T4004 4 channel for highs
1x Kicker 08zx750.1

the whole roof of the cab is dynamatted because i used to have 2 JL 15's in this truck and the resonance on the roof was so bad it made extremely loud brrraaah noises when the bass hit .

I also made sort of dynamat boxes underneath my door and dash Speaker stock mounting locations awhile back and that greatly improved those speaker's sound.

what i discovered with tuning my setup is a few things

for best imaging i had to ditch my door speakers (6.5" components) with them connected either with or without the dash speakers the sound stage was either way too much to the right (i could hear most sound come from the right door Speaker as it was firing at my ear directly) and also relied on the rear 6x9's too much on the left side making for an odd sounding sound stage.

due to this i disconnected the doors and went with just my dash 4 x 6 plate components and the rear 6x9's for added sound and better mid bass the 4 x 6's obviously lack due to their size.

when running the test always make sure to turn all the settings on the HU off and make sure sub level is 0, balance and fade are centered, pre-tune your high gains so they are even and not turned up excessively of course and shut off all cross-overs if you can and if not then turn it to max. I had to do this on my kicker as its got an undefeatable LP xover as well as a static 25hz subsonic filter. turn you sub gain down from the norm setting but not a whole lot, my norm setting was 1/2 and for tests i would turn it down to 1/3 and back up to 1/2 as well as upping the HU sub output to 8-10 out of 15 after the testing with MultiEQ on.

here is a big thing i discovered as well as some other users, if your like me and you do not have the convenience of a quiet garage you can put the vehicle in for the test to control exterior sounds screwing up test results. make sure you test late at night and that no cars drive by or you can also do what i did for a few tests i ran on the weekend during the day and drive to a empty business park where all of them are closed or in the case of where i live often unoccupied because a Car drives by or any other decent noise happens around your Car when doing it you might as well scrap it and test again or your results are not optimal and could even sound bad.

as for mic locations, a tripod is of course a must for this and i had good results with the centered on your head position then rear center then pass center then to the left and right of your listening positions method the most for sound stage and for more mid/bass the take 4 measurements from the driver seat only method audessey said to do worked good as well (centered then to the left and right 3-6" and then forward 3-6")

lastly aside from the normal turn the sub gain back up to normal and boost sub output on the HU till it sounds good to you i have also found that tweaking the balance and fade slightly is needed to get the perfect sound stage and balance from my front to rear speakers. i also found in my last test that i need to bump up the bass setting +2 to get a little better mid bass and turn down the treble to -2 when using the reference curve, this tweaks it more to be like how the linear curve sounds and i prefer that curve overall but for some reason the last time i tested i decided to try ref with mid comp out and i did not like it much and should have loaded linear because it has better bass and less treble than the ref curves but this of course will vary depending on how you like your sound.


here is screen shots of the test results that i am currently using




i have tweaked my normal settings without the MultiEQ to my liking and overall it is much louder esp with bass, with MultiEQ it really is no contest how much better it sounds.

before i bought this unit i was using an old school Alpine ERE-G180 11 band EQ with BBE and the beauty of that EQ was BBE and how it could make anything with bass play loud pounding bass and this of course never matches that no matter what but then again i'm not really looking to have that any longer as my ears have been damaged from high SPL subs enough from the 15's i used to have in it

I would rate it this way from what i've recently used in my truck

Alpine w/ PXA-H100 manually adjusted w/o imprint on is the worst

Alipine w/ERE-G180 (BBE) best for having decent SQ while having killer bass

Alpine w/ PXA-H100 w/ properly done and tuned imprint hands down the best SQ but not the best bass or overall volume level, it seems to adjust my HU's volume knob so middle is very quiet, 3/4" is low volume and max is loud, but not loud enough to hear your ears or blow you out of the seat with bass *without adjusting amp gains on all amp's up more than they were tested at*

one interesting side effect that I'm sure is why it does this volume limiting is to prevent you being able to turn the volume up to a point where the system distorts even if you really do have Power headroom in your amp/speaker setup to support the higher volumes without much if any distortion.

keep in mind if you do run this setup on these newer Alpine HU's and you wish to switch it off make sure to do so with the volume turned down because you could possibly do some damage to speakers if you switched modes when the volume knob is too high!!

Last edited by Dmax11; 03-26-2010 at 01:50 AM..
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Old 03-26-2010   #54
 
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

nice review thanks a lot.

actually I also use the reference and the reference with mid comp

i also have the problem with the sound stage moving to the right, but i re-mesure using the mic in the drivers position, and then putting down the gain on the right tweeter.

now is almost centered, with just a little more to the drivers position, wich is right for me.

sounds awesome on the drivers side, and very very good on the passengers side.
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Old 03-31-2010   #55
 
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

for an addition to my mini review above i have how also setup TrueRTA on my laptop and tested the mic accuracy before hand with my other PC and using the Alpine mic here is how my truck looks with pink noise played back for a few minutes in TrueRTA



certainly not as flat as Alpines generated graph is but still not bad for an in Car sound system.

keep in mind i love bass hence the huge peak of bass levels that is provided by me turning up the sub amp gain and HU level

also this was taken with the HU set to linear EQ mode not Reference as i prefer the added mid-bass linear seems to give you over the brighter highs of the reference setting

its raining now but later this week maybe this weekend i'll do some more testing with TrueRTA to see what other modes look like

Last edited by Dmax11; 03-31-2010 at 09:15 PM..
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Old 04-03-2010   #56
 
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

Before I start I have read through pages and pages of threads on imprint however I still need clarification on something and would appreciate some help I just finished installing pioneer c720prs 2 way (active) front stage with a sub in the boot. Hu is alpine x305 and I have the pxa-h100 and ktx-h100 tuning kit. As I am running active I am not using the passive xovers that came with the pioneers however am I right in saying that if I auto tune with the ktx it does not set the xover for the tweets? Does this mean they are getting full range sent to them? Wouldnt this damage them? Just want clarification on this and if I am correct some advice? Maybe throw the passive xover on for the tweets? Thanks
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Old 04-24-2010   #57
 
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

Hello, i am new here and have a question about this imprint KTX-H100. I have installed it on my laptop but everytime i try to run it i get a a message that states Common Language Runtime Debugging Services, Application has generated an exception that could not be handled. It ask to click cancel to debugg but then it says the JIT debugger is not available. Can anyone help with this? I am very eagger as you can imagine to get the processor working. Thanks.
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Old 05-01-2010   #58
 
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

Hey guys im fed up with my pxa-h100 and PXAH100. Just isnt my thing. To much work for me right now and my jeep is very space limited as well as the fact I have to maintain a waterline to keep stuff safe. Shoot me a pm if you are interested in them.
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Old 05-19-2010   #59
 
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

When setting the HP for the tweeters, do you set them below what you think they SHOULD be crossed at so that IMPRINT will "fix that" or does that cause that crossover point to be the permanent setting?

The reason I ask is because I don't think my amplifier can cross high enough for a tweeter - it is 500hz IIRC at its highest setting.

Thanks.
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Old 06-15-2010   #60
 
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

Thank you for the in-depth post I think it will solve a lot of headaches

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zak.davis@aampofamerica.com
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Old 06-15-2010   #61
 
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

I want to be able to find this one again.
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Old 08-21-2010   #62
 
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

Wondering if there is any help for me. I am doing an install using an imprint PXA-H100, When I set things up for a 3 way system, I get really funky results. When I use the passive crossovers, I get reasonable results, but the treble is definitely compromised by the cheap parts in the crossover. In the 3 way mode, I get full range sound from the sub. What is the deal? I have run the measurements again and again. Same result. I love having the time correction capability in 3 way mode that makes the image so much better, but full range sub? I have heard the bandaid solution of using the amp crossover, but I am using an old school Soundstream that has no crossover in it. Help????
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Old 08-28-2010   #63
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

If anyone wants Alpine's "proper" fitting guide for the PXE-H650, not the BS one sent with the unit PM me with your email address and I'll forward it to you


Quote:
Originally Posted by BuickGN View Post
Regardless, I agree with Baron


Last edited by The Baron Groog; 08-28-2010 at 10:26 AM.. Reason: making clear which imprint manual i have
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Old 10-02-2010   #64
 
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

I finally installed my system in my 2008 Accord today,
  • Alpine CDA-9887 w/ Imprint
  • Alpine SPR-17C 6.5 Coax Rear Deck
  • Alpine SPR-17S 6.5 Component Front
  • Boston Acoustics 10" G2 Subwoofer
  • Alpine MRP-F240 V-Power 4 channel
  • Alpine MRD-M605 V12 Sub Amp

I haven't done any serious tuning yet but I did a quick Imprint run (because I just couldn't wait) in imperfect conditions. I measured with the mic sitting on my left shoulder, my right shoulder, and then wedged in the headrest in the passenger seat.

Now while my measurements are probably far from perfect, it already sounds way better than before I ran Imprint. The soundstage went from the back seat to stage right (not quite center stage but we're getting there), and the bass went from boomy and annoying to tight and accurate.

It definitely made everything a lot quieter, I do wish I could turn it up a little past max. I haven't touched the gains yet so they are set to whatever worked in my last Car with a different deck, but regardless, I'm impressed with what Imprint was able to do in half an hour.

My real question is this, is measuring while I'm in the Car really a bad idea? I have to think that plopping my 270 pound body in the middle of the space is going to change the acoustics significantly, so wouldn't it make sense to measure with me sitting there?
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Old 10-04-2010   #65
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

I'd try it with you in the car-afterall you're going to listening to it so if a leg is blocking a mid in your door, for example, Imprint could help correct it


Quote:
Originally Posted by BuickGN View Post
Regardless, I agree with Baron

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Old 10-04-2010   #66
 
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

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Originally Posted by FreeTurkeys View Post
My real question is this, is measuring while I'm in the Car really a bad idea? I have to think that plopping my 270 pound body in the middle of the space is going to change the acoustics significantly, so wouldn't it make sense to measure with me sitting there?
The only problem with doing it with you in the Car is that you cannot take the first measurement with the mic where the centre of your head would be. That, and maybe keeping the mic positions consistent run to run. I don't know how you do it without getting claustrophobic or overheated though. You don't have the windows open do you?

My approach has been to Build a mannequin of my legs using towels jammed into a pair of jeans. That way I can simulate the effect of my legs on the mids and kickpanel tweets.
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Old 01-07-2011   #67
 
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

ok guys just installed the h100 in with my cda-117e and got sound coming out, but the bass has been drastically reduced (and im only manually tuning, no mic kit)

any help here would be much appreciated. thanks
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Old 02-26-2011   #68
 
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

Does anyone have any info on using the imprint setup with the INA-W900BT?

Doing a moderately elaborate install in my Acura MDX. Just wondering if anyone knows the ins and outs of the Audyssey MultEQ XT system that Alpine licenses for their Imprint calibration system?

I have two questions:

1) Will I run into any issues with this system if I'm only running 6.5" mids in the rear for "rear fill". What's the best way to go about setting filters and crossovers with this system? Should it be done in the head unit itself or use the supplied Speaker crossovers or both?

2) I ordered a CSS SDX 10 sub and they recommend some sort of auto equalizer to maximize and flatten the in vehicle response of the sub, but I'm wondering if the auto calibration in the imprint technology will do this for me? Anyone know if the imprint also works on the sub channel and does it go all the way down below 20Hz?

The System I'm installing:
Head Unit - Alpine INA-W900BT (with imprint module)
Front speakers - Image Dynamics CTX 65CS components
Rear speakers - Image Dynamics CTX 6M midrange woofers
Subwoofer - CSS SDX 10 in 0.9ft3 sealed custom fiberglass enclosure
Amps - Alpine PDX 4.150 / PDX 1.1000
FatMat rattle trap extreme will be installed at least in all 4 doors and around the area where the sub is to be installed.

Hopefully someone has some expertise with the Imprint calibration cause they sure don't go into much detail on the Alpine website. I am much more familiar with home audio than Car audio so any help would be much appreciated.
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Old 03-03-2011   #69
 
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

just ran mine again after about 2 years or so haha




2009 Tc - ivaw505, pxah100, front stage (focal k2p), sub (2 8w7), amp: JL HD6004, JL HD7501, all JL wiring
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Old 03-18-2011   #70
 
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Default Should I be bi-amping through a crossover or ditch the crossover and run full active?

Found this thread and thought someone who's more familiar might have some insight on this...

I have MLK 165s for my front stage and an Alpine Imprint. The MLK's crossovers allows for bi-amping so my installer bi-amped it through the crossover - diagram below.

My question is - should he even use the MLK's crossovers or should he be running it full active from the imprint instead? Does it matter?

Right now it sounds like singers / instrumentals are underneath a plastic bowl and I'm wondering if the imprint and the bi-amped crossover are conflicting with one another (both trying to set crossover points).

I'm supposed to come back and have him re-tune it, but I wanted the forum's opinion on how it should be configured in the first place with this type of setup... My first time with an Imprint.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 03-20-2011   #71
 
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

Unless someone can think of a different configuration what would Sound better, I'm leaning towards bridging the amps and pushing 350w everywhere. The MLK's have great crossovers so I want to use them. I've heard Hertz spent a lot of time making them sound just right in stock locations in a Car (with customizable settings in the x-over network).

If someone's got another strong opinion, I'd love to hear it though...
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Old 04-04-2011   #72
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

Question, on the "room correction" how does that work? I know that it is time delay but does it delay everthing that is running off of a particular channel the same or does it delay by freq? What I'm getting at is this, If I run passive networks to my mains (tweeter in the dash and mid in the door) would they be delayed together or seperate? Would they have the correct delay for there location or would they be delayed as a common location? I really don't want to add the cost of going active.
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Old 04-05-2011   #73
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

If you have a passive on them they will be delayed together. You only have so many channels to work with (4 + sub). If you were running active through Imprint, then it could set individual time delay for each of the tweeters and mids. That would be your best bet unless you are running rear speakers.
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Old 04-05-2011   #74
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

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Originally Posted by ecbmxer View Post
If you have a passive on them they will be delayed together. You only have so many channels to work with (4 + sub). If you were running active through Imprint, then it could set individual time delay for each of the tweeters and mids. That would be your best bet unless you are running rear speakers.
Well that is what i thought because that is the type of delay that I am used too.... However, I called Alpine tech before I posted this and they said it delays by freq so even if they were passive and in 2 different locations they would be delayed correctly. This is beyond my understanding how that could be done which is why I posted here as well. I know that when I used to deal with Alpine 10yrs ago they had some knowledgeable techs.... I don't know about now since the market has went down.
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Old 04-05-2011   #75
 
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Default Re: Imprint tuning hints and tips

IIRC it's freq. based and not really channel based.

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