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Old 12-14-2006   #26
 
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Default Re: A Basic Guide to Crossovers

Alright, so I would need to have the Speaker wires going from the crossover to the amp and then from the amp to the speakers?

Also, are there any models that are not as expensive as the PPI one always mentioned and the DCX2496? I want one that will be sufficient for a beginners set-up. I do not need a very expensive one because I am not looking to control very expensive speakers.

-Brad
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Old 12-14-2006   #27
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Default Re: A Basic Guide to Crossovers

Quote:
Originally Posted by SOHCKing03
Alright, so I would need to have the Speaker wires going from the crossover to the amp and then from the amp to the speakers?
Active crossovers work BEFORE the amps, while the passives work AFTER the amps. You're all signal (RCAs) before the amps and the Speaker Wire goes straight to the driver.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SOHCKing03
Also, are there any models that are not as expensive as the PPI one always mentioned and the DCX2496? I want one that will be sufficient for a beginners set-up. I do not need a very expensive one because I am not looking to control very expensive speakers.
That's sort of unrelated. As you pay more, you generally get more flexibility and options out of your unit, not higher quality sound. It shouldn't make any change in your sound if you apply the same exact settings on one unit as opposed to that other. Of course, that's in an ideal world.
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Old 12-15-2006   #28
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Default Re: A Basic Guide to Crossovers

What the PPI, 2496, Alpine H701, and others offer you is much more than just a crossover. You get features like time alignment and EQ, etc. You can pick up a basic 3 way active crossover like the Coustic XM-6, on ebay for under $50.00. It'll be just fine to start with. Then as you get more experience, you can move to other features, and your setup can grow.

What you're looking for is a crossover that has the following features.

High Pass - variable up to about 4000+ hz
Band Pass - variable of about 50 hz high pass - 5000 hz lowpass
Low Pass - can be anything above 80 hz

These are very flexible numbers. If you find a unit you think might work, post it here, and we'll let you know.

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Old 12-15-2006   #29
 
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Default Re: A Basic Guide to Crossovers

Quote:
Originally Posted by solacedagony
That's sort of unrelated. As you pay more, you generally get more flexibility and options out of your unit, not higher quality sound. It shouldn't make any change in your sound if you apply the same exact settings on one unit as opposed to that other. Of course, that's in an ideal world.
I must not have worded things correctly. I understood that you'll get about the same sound quality, but I didn't know if all those features were even necessary for a beginning set-up.

I got my PE catalog a couple days ago and I had found a 2-way stereo/3-way mono crossover with subwoofer out. It has 24dB slope LR filters, balanced inputs and outputs, and seperately adjustable subwoofer output. It is only $90. Would this be sufficient?

They also have a 3-way stereo/4-way mono. Would it be better to have the 3-way mono or 3-way stereo? The price is only $130 too so it isn't that expensive. I do believe however that this one has time alignment unlike the other.

Any input on these would be great.

Oh yeah they are Super-X Pro CX2310 and Super-X Pro CX3400. Model #'s are #248-664 and #248-668

Thanks

-Brad
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Old 12-15-2006   #30
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Default Re: A Basic Guide to Crossovers

For only 40$ extra, I would get the 3-way stereo one. If you decide you want to go 3-way front stage you have that option. More specifically, I would want it for the time alignment. Does that unit also allow for level matching?

Mini: Sorry if this thread is getting off of its main purpose. I'll stop replying if you want to cut down on junk in the thread.
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Old 12-15-2006   #31
 
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Default Re: A Basic Guide to Crossovers

" The CX3400 is an active frequency crossover enabling 2 or 3-way stereo or even 4-way mono operation. Each band features two 24-dB Linkwitz-Riley filters, as well as individual IGC limiters, while the integrated delay enables flexible time alignment. Polarity switches for each output allow quick and easy runtime compensation for various driver and horn types."

So I am guessing that it doesn't do level matching unless that's what the "runtime compensation" is.

I too am sorry for jacking this thread, I can delete these posts and take them to PM's if you want the junk out.

-Brad
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Old 12-15-2006   #32
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Default Re: A Basic Guide to Crossovers

As long as it stays within the realm of crossovers, then it'll be okay. However, I did start a new thread concerning the DCX2496 in the general forum. There are definitely some things people need to know about the pro-audio units before they purchase them. For one, you need to supply them with 110v AC, which means you need a Power inverter. I'm pretty sure it'll get hashed out in the new thread.

DCX2496

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Old 12-15-2006   #33
 
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Default Re: A Basic Guide to Crossovers

So between DCX2496 and the CX3400, would you go with the CX3400?

-Less money
-Runs off DC (I haven't seen otherwise)
-No known issues (heating, noise, etc)
-Can perform the tasks I need

I am leaning more towards the 3400 so I'll probably get that and if I need to upgrade then I will move to the 2496 or even the PPI 730 if I've got the money for it.

-Brad
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Old 12-15-2006   #34
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Default Re: A Basic Guide to Crossovers

I personally think the DCX is worth the extra money for having all the EQ and bells and whistles on top of the crossover. Less to worry about. Although, like MiniVan said, you have to use a Power converter on it or get the unit modded for 12v. I remember seeing somewhere that some company would do it for you (don't remember who or at what cost, however).
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Old 12-15-2006   #35
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Default Re: A Basic Guide to Crossovers

Quote:
Originally Posted by SOHCKing03
So between DCX2496 and the CX3400, would you go with the CX3400?

-Less money
-Runs off DC (I haven't seen otherwise)
-No known issues (heating, noise, etc)
-Can perform the tasks I need

I am leaning more towards the 3400 so I'll probably get that and if I need to upgrade then I will move to the 2496 or even the PPI 730 if I've got the money for it.

-Brad
All those pro-audio units run off of 115 VAC.

The ability to buy expensive equipment does NOT make you an audiophile.
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Old 12-18-2006   #36
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Default Re: A Basic Guide to Crossovers

Thanks for the Thread MiniVanMan!!!

this helps.. now I just need to decide what to do.. LOL
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Old 12-20-2006   #37
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Default Re: A Basic Guide to Crossovers

Quote:
Originally Posted by SOHCKing03
So between DCX2496 and the CX3400, would you go with the CX3400?

-Less money
-Runs off DC (I haven't seen otherwise)
-No known issues (heating, noise, etc)
-Can perform the tasks I need

I am leaning more towards the 3400 so I'll probably get that and if I need to upgrade then I will move to the 2496 or even the PPI 730 if I've got the money for it.

-Brad
Since I have a 3400, (which I am about to upgrade to a 2496) a couple of notes:
1) It runs of AC, as mentioned
2) Set crossover slope (24dB/oct) whereas the the 2496 is configurable
3) HP and LP are not independentally controllable. One knob sets the crossover frequency, and therefore you cannot controll the amount of overlap or underlap.

Just FYI.

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Old 12-25-2006   #38
 
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Default Re: A Basic Guide to Crossovers

Ok so some crossover types boost the db at the crossover frequency. Anyone know what type of crossovers are used in the 8053? or does it only apply to analog or digital?
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Old 12-25-2006   #39
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Default Re: A Basic Guide to Crossovers

Quote:
Originally Posted by nablis
Ok so some crossover types boost the db at the crossover frequency. Anyone know what type of crossovers are used in the 8053? or does it only apply to analog or digital?
Actually, it doesn't really matter, as each slope is individually adjustable. It would only matter if you set the crossover point as one selection for say the high pass of the tweeter and the low pass of the mid. I don't really know how to explain that better, so I hope it clears it up.

This also another huge advantage of active over passive. You generally don't need to worry about whether it is Butterworth, LR, etc. Because, with active you're selecting your own underlap or overlap depending on what sounds good. You're essetially creating your own crossover variant.

The ability to buy expensive equipment does NOT make you an audiophile.
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Old 01-01-2007   #40
 
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Default Re: A Basic Guide to Crossovers

Quote:
Originally Posted by nablis
Ok so some crossover types boost the db at the crossover frequency. Anyone know what type of crossovers are used in the 8053? or does it only apply to analog or digital?
the adjustable-Q "peaking" type filters are typically found in subsonic filters and some class D amps, advertised as a bass-boost+filter in one deal.

because digital filters often are designed around analog filters, the effect is not limited to just analog designs.

it is assumed that unless specifically stated, the filter will not have peaking.

EE. DSP. Analog.
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Old 07-16-2007   #41
 
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Default Re: A Basic Guide to Crossovers

Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniVanMan View Post
Actually, it doesn't really matter, as each slope is individually adjustable. It would only matter if you set the crossover point as one selection for say the high pass of the tweeter and the low pass of the mid. I don't really know how to explain that better, so I hope it clears it up.

This also another huge advantage of active over passive. You generally don't need to worry about whether it is Butterworth, LR, etc. Because, with active you're selecting your own underlap or overlap depending on what sounds good. You're essetially creating your own crossover variant.
Is there a phase shift with active digital crossovers? There is a note in the Pioneer P880PRS manual that talks about compensating with phase for 12dB slopes. I thought this phase shift was only present with analog components?
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Old 07-16-2007   #42
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Default Re: A Basic Guide to Crossovers

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Is there a phase shift with active digital crossovers? There is a note in the Pioneer P880PRS manual that talks about compensating with phase for 12dB slopes. I thought this phase shift was only present with analog components?
common misconception

YES. Digital crossovers also induce a phase shift, quite similar to their analog counterparts ... 45 degrees at the xover frequency (per-order), asymptotically approaching 90 degrees at frequency extremes (per-order). Anyone who tells you different, is either ignorant ... or selling something

The only exception to this rule in digital xovers is a class of digital filters called FIR (for Finite Impulse Response), which have the ability to realize perfectly linear phase. But these filters are quite rare ... in both home and Car audio processors.
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Old 07-16-2007   #43
 
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Default Re: A Basic Guide to Crossovers

Thanks for clearing that up!
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Old 07-23-2007   #44
 
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Default Re: A Basic Guide to Crossovers

This is an awesome thread . Very helpful
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Old 08-07-2007   #45
 
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Default Re: A Basic Guide to Crossovers

There is a ton of great info in this thread. What if anything happens when you cascade crossovers? Example, you use the crossover in the head unit, then the crossover in the amp in the same capacity as the one in the head unit. If you are using hpf on the deck and hpf on the amp. Does this change the slope or the crossover point? I am mostly just curious I don't plan on using this set up.

Jason

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Old 08-07-2007   #46
 
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Default Re: A Basic Guide to Crossovers

excellent thread mini! I was wondering if some might want to contribute as to good sites to purchase passive crossover components. After designing the proper crossover, you need to get the parts from somewhere right? haha. where does everyone get theirs? I know www.partsexpress.com has some parts. any others?

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Old 08-08-2007   #47
 
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Default Re: A Basic Guide to Crossovers

I usually look through the sale sections of

http://www.madisound.com/index.html

http://www.solen.ca/

http://www.meniscusaudio.com/Specials/

http://www.speakercity.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?

http://www.zalytron.com/

Hope that helps

Jason
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Old 09-02-2007   #48
 
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Default Re: A Basic Guide to Crossovers

i got a question can some one help me ,
i have a set of component i follow back the original passive crossover to Build another one using a better component , currently my original Coil for tweeter is running 0.2mh but i cant get the same value and i bought a 0.22mh Goertz Copper coil

my tweeter is running on 3rd order 4.0uf cap > 0.2mh coil > 10uf cap even my cap cant find exact value i only can get 3.9uf Mundorf cap if like this will have big different plus my coil is 0.22mh pls help
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Old 09-02-2007   #49
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Default Re: A Basic Guide to Crossovers

You'll have some flexibility in the parallel coil in a high pass circuit, so I don't see why .22 mh would be a problem.

Also, the difference between a 4.0, and 3.9 uF capacitor will be very little if anything at all. Those Mundorf Supreme caps have a tolerance of 2% so that's anywhere between 3.92 and 4.08. Excellent tolerances, but shows that that small of a difference won't make that much of an audible difference. Especially in a car.

The ability to buy expensive equipment does NOT make you an audiophile.
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Old 09-02-2007   #50
 
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Wink Re: A Basic Guide to Crossovers

Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniVanMan View Post
You'll have some flexibility in the parallel coil in a high pass circuit, so I don't see why .22 mh would be a problem.

Also, the difference between a 4.0, and 3.9 uF capacitor will be very little if anything at all. Those Mundorf Supreme caps have a tolerance of 2% so that's anywhere between 3.92 and 4.08. Excellent tolerances, but shows that that small of a difference won't make that much of an audible difference. Especially in a car.
thanks man now i waiting my things arrived just order from madisound really thanks
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