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Old 03-17-2017   #651
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Default Re: Update on new JL Audio Processors

Quote:
Originally Posted by subterFUSE View Post
Now I am playing with the parametric EQ. What I have not figured out is how to link EQ channels together to adjust them in relative mode. For example, let's say that I have done EQ to my left tweeter and then to my right tweeter to get them to be equal in level across their playable range. Now I want to make a tonality adjustment without losing my relative levels between the left and right side. How do I make this adjustment in Tun?
I don't think you can; not like that anyway. As best I can tell, EQ bank linking is limited to adjacent odd/even banks (1-2, 3-4, 5-6 & 7-8). Furthermore when the link is enabled, you must copy one to the other which completely overwrites the destination EQ bank. No relative linking/adjustment is possible. They're either linked & cloned (and therefore identical) or not linked at all.
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Old 03-17-2017   #652
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Default Re: Update on new JL Audio Processors

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Originally Posted by subterFUSE View Post
Now I am playing with the parametric EQ. What I have not figured out is how to link EQ channels together to adjust them in relative mode. For example, let's say that I have done EQ to my left tweeter and then to my right tweeter to get them to be equal in level across their playable range. Now I want to make a tonality adjustment without losing my relative levels between the left and right side. How do I make this adjustment in Tun?

I can foresee one possible difficulty in this because when a parametric EQ is set up, the numbered EQ bands are no longer necessarily symmetrical. i.e. you might make band 1 on EQ1 to be 2450 Hz with -2dB gain and 2.3Q, while on EQ2 band 1 might be 3200 Hz with -3 dB gain and Q of 1.6. So if you linked those EQs together and moved band 1, the result of joint movement on the EQ would yield much different response shaping to the sound.

That topic aside, I'm still not seeing how to link the EQ bands and adjust together. How is this done in Tun?
Your analysis is spot-on, correct. Because left and right EQ's might be set completely differently, we can't provide a mechanism to adjust bands on two separately tuned EQ's together. Of course, if you choose to link EQ's L-R, then you adjust all their bands together, but you can't go back and forth.

Quote:
I guess one method would be to put a FiX in front of the TWK, and use the FiX as an input EQ. You could then tune your system perfectly flat in the TWK, apply crossovers and delay, and then you could switch over to the FiX and EQ the overall system response there without messing up the relative EQ balance you did in the TWK. This would be much like a pro audio DSP, which has full processing on the input stage and output stage.
Yes, something like that will be quite possible in the not-too-distant future.

Thanks for the feedback! Glad you're having fun playing around with TüN 2.0!
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Old 03-17-2017   #653
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Default Re: Update on new JL Audio Processors

After having used the Twk a lot for 7 or 8 months now, there are two features that I think would be really, really helpful and both concern being connected to the dsp.

First, allowing the use of the remote volume knob. Using the slider is tedius. I use the volume a lot when listening to various tracks while connected and it is much more natural and precise to turn the knob. Not to mention I like to listen with my eyes closed which makes using the knob easier as well.

Second is faster preset switching. It is fast enough when not connected, but takes several seconds when connected. I routinely A/B presets for myself and at times with another person and that wait period is a distraction during listening.

I still wish it had about 5 more bands of eq, especially for a 2-way setup. I know Manville, you've said before if you need more than 10 you need new speakers My counter is my speakers are fine, it's the environment they are in that sucks

With all that said, I like the interface and I've never had a connectivity problem or any other glitch.

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Old 03-17-2017   #654
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Default Re: Update on new JL Audio Processors

I'm a newcomer here, having only recently discovered this site while researching DSPs. I've had a TwK 88 installed for about 5 weeks now, and I love it so far (there's a build thread over on the SS Forums, for those that are interested).

After wading through this entire thread, I thought I'd finally chime in:

1. I agree with a few of the earlier posts suggesting that the TwK hits a very nice sweet spot in the market. For my needs anyway, it's kind of a Goldilocks DSP -- not too much, not too little, but just about right. A great value. I could certainly put another pair of output channels to good use, but I'm not complaining. I can't really comment on the FIX, as I don't have a need for one.

2. I'm very impressed/pleased to see the level of involvement by the JL support staff on this forum. Perhaps that's the norm around here. As I said, I'm new here so I don't know. Regardless, it's great to see. Kudos to the team at JL!

3. The ability to download the TüN software and test drive it prior to buying was a major part of my buying decision. Very helpful.

4. I see several others are also using the TüN software on a Mac. I can add that it works perfectly using VMWare Fusion (Windows 7) on a Mid-2010 MacBook Pro running Mavericks. I've not encountered a single software issue or glitch -- this too was a major part of my buying decision since I don't do Windows.

5. Yes, the LED is way too bright. And I would also add that several of the colors are difficult to distinguish from one another. I wonder if a small, 7-segment LED displaying a single-digit Preset number wouldn't be more useful. More difficult to mount perhaps, but definitely more useful.

6. When loading a saved Project from disk, the Valet Preset is always disabled -- even if it was enabled when the Project was saved. It's driving me nuts because I nearly always forget to re-enable it before saving the Project to the TwK, and I wind up driving around without it. Normally this wouldn't be such a big deal, but I'm currently in the process of tuning everything and I use the Valet Preset as a "Flat" reference setting, so I switch it on/off quite a lot.

7. Initially, I figured six Presets would be plenty, but I was wrong. The more the merrier! Maybe a two-digit 7-segment LED display would be in order...

8. It would be very helpful to allow the duplication of one EQ bank to another without first having to delete the destination EQ bank and it's associated Mixer/Router connections. Perhaps displaying an "Overwrite?" confirmation dialog first.

9. The same with Presets -- it would be very handy to be able to duplicate one Preset directly to another, overwriting the destination Preset's Setup & Tune configurations without overwriting it's name, Preset number, and LED color.


I still have quite a ways to go before I'll be satisfied with my new setup, but it's getting there. This is my first exposure to using a DSP, and already I can't imagine putting together a system without one. I'm having a grand old time experimenting and learning as I go.

My apologies for the long-winded post.
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Old 03-17-2017   #655
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Default Re: Update on new JL Audio Processors

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Originally Posted by voiceCoil63 View Post
I'm a newcomer here, having only recently discovered this site while researching DSPs. I've had a TwK 88 installed for about 5 weeks now, and I love it so far (there's a build thread over on the SS Forums, for those that are interested).

After wading through this entire thread, I thought I'd finally chime in:
Thank you, voiceCoil63... that is some great feedback. I will share it with the dev team. Many of the items you have mentioned are already on our "to do" list for future versions of TüN. We are already working on 3.0 (software projects never end).
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Old 03-17-2017   #656
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Default Re: Update on new JL Audio Processors

Quote:
Originally Posted by pocket5s View Post
After having used the Twk a lot for 7 or 8 months now, there are two features that I think would be really, really helpful and both concern being connected to the dsp.

First, allowing the use of the remote volume knob. Using the slider is tedius. I use the volume a lot when listening to various tracks while connected and it is much more natural and precise to turn the knob. Not to mention I like to listen with my eyes closed which makes using the knob easier as well.

Second is faster preset switching. It is fast enough when not connected, but takes several seconds when connected. I routinely A/B presets for myself and at times with another person and that wait period is a distraction during listening.

I still wish it had about 5 more bands of eq, especially for a 2-way setup. I know Manville, you've said before if you need more than 10 you need new speakers My counter is my speakers are fine, it's the environment they are in that sucks

With all that said, I like the interface and I've never had a connectivity problem or any other glitch.
Thanks for the detailed comments, Pocket5s... I will pass these along to the dev team. We are listening.
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Old 03-17-2017   #657
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Default Re: Update on new JL Audio Processors

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Originally Posted by msmith View Post
Thank you, voiceCoil63... that is some great feedback. I will share it with the dev team. Many of the items you have mentioned are already on our "to do" list for future versions of TüN.
Great to hear! I may be short on time, and I may be short on money. But I'm never short on opinions. I'm sure I'll have a few more suggestions in the future.

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We are already working on 3.0 (software projects never end).
That's a fact!
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Old 03-17-2017   #658
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Default Re: Update on new JL Audio Processors

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Originally Posted by msmith View Post
Your analysis is spot-on, correct. Because left and right EQ's might be set completely differently, we can't provide a mechanism to adjust bands on two separately tuned EQ's together. Of course, if you choose to link EQ's L-R, then you adjust all their bands together, but you can't go back and forth.
Yes, and this is not an isolated issue to one brand of DSP over another. It's inherent in the nature of para EQ and the customization of each band.

I have the same issue on my Helix. However, since the Helix does offer 30 bands of EQ you can decide which bands to leave graphic and which to be para. By doing this, you potentially leave yourself the option of still having relative EQ linking between channels to tune overall tonality while maintaining the left/right balance for imaging.

However, even that is a kludge. The better solution is to have full processing on the inputs AND outputs, just like a pro audio DSP. I'm hoping that future generations of car audio processors begin to implement this because it truly makes the tuning workflow easier and more intuitive.



Quote:
Yes, something like that will be quite possible in the not-too-distant future.

Thanks for the feedback! Glad you're having fun playing around with TüN 2.0!

In all honesty, I think you're offering this already by combining the FiX with the TWK. The Fix does input processing, and the TWK does output. I think since the FiX is now user-controllable for the EQ, it could be used as the input side processing like a pro audio DSP.

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Old 03-17-2017   #659
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Default Re: Update on new JL Audio Processors

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Originally Posted by pocket5s View Post

I still wish it had about 5 more bands of eq, especially for a 2-way setup. I know Manville, you've said before if you need more than 10 you need new speakers My counter is my speakers are fine, it's the environment they are in that sucks

With all that said, I like the interface and I've never had a connectivity problem or any other glitch.
I thought a few more bands would be needed as well as I'm a long time 31 band GEQ user but I realize now that 10 band PEQ per channel is MORE than enough. If you're running mids and tweets off the same channel then you would need to do a little more work getting things set but if you bi-amped and ran the mids and tweets of independent channels, you can use one 10 band PEQ per driver. That is more than enough to get things dialed in.

And I love the, "if you need more than 5 bands of EQ, you need new speakers" line. LOL! I'm gonna steal that one.

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Old 03-17-2017   #660
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Default Re: Update on new JL Audio Processors

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I thought a few more bands would be needed as well as I'm a long time 31 band GEQ user but I realize now that 10 band PEQ per channel is MORE than enough. If you're running mids and tweets off the same channel then you would need to do a little more work getting things set but if you bi-amped and ran the mids and tweets of independent channels, you can use one 10 band PEQ per driver. That is more than enough to get things dialed in.



And I love the, "if you need more than 5 bands of EQ, you need new speakers" line. LOL! I'm gonna steal that one.


He said 10 actually, a few pages back. And I disagree with you.

I can do it with 10, but it is very limiting for any further fine tweaking. A previous poster hit it on the head with what he termed input eq. Where you get individual drivers set up then use "other" eq for over all tonality adjustments.

Right now I use 8&9 bands for my mids. Yes less than 10, and thankfully it works well, but I have no leeway to change anything else. Granted I compete so I try to squeeze out every little bit I can where the average consumer wouldn't care too.


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Old 03-17-2017   #661
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Default Re: Update on new JL Audio Processors

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He said 10 actually, a few pages back. And I disagree with you.

I can do it with 10, but it is very limiting for any further fine tweaking. A previous poster hit it on the head with what he termed input eq. Where you get individual drivers set up then use "other" eq for over all tonality adjustments.

Right now I use 8&9 bands for my mids. Yes less than 10, and thankfully it works well, but I have no leeway to change anything else. Granted I compete so I try to squeeze out every little bit I can where the average consumer wouldn't care too.


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I would be interested in seeing the PEQ settings for your mids. Can you send me the project file via e-mail? msmith@ jlaudio dot com

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Old 03-17-2017   #662
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Default Re: Update on new JL Audio Processors

I'm looking at the FiX software now, and it definitely can be used as input EQ for a system that's paired up with a TWK.

This is very, very cool. While JL Audio most likely intended the FiX to be an OEM integration piece, I can actually see some benefit to using it with a TWK even when you have an aftermarket head unit like the Sony GS9.

Basically, you feed the analog outputs from the GS9 into the FiX. Then you route the FiX to the TWK.

Go in and tune the TWK first. Aim for a perfectly flat tune. Do EQ to flat on each driver. Apply crossovers. Time align by ear.

At this point, you'll have a balanced setup but your tonality won't be great because flat EQ in a car is meh. But your crossovers will be dialed in, and not only that but when your system response is flat then that means your acoustic crossover results actually match the electronic filter settings in the DSP. So if you wanted a LR24 crossover at 400Hz you literally just enter that setting in the DSP and since your EQ is flat you will actually get 400Hz LR24 in reality.

Now go to the FiX. Use the EQ there to shape your system response any way you want. If you like a big tilt to your curve, go for it. I just tested it out and was able to get about 30 dB of tilt from the subwoofer regions to the upper range. That's plenty of tilt for just about any tonality curve you want. And, best part, since you are adjusting the EQ on the input side you won't be harming your left/right balance, imaging or crossovers on the TWK. Any changes you make will be applied equally to any drivers sharing that input.

About the only way this could be better would be a little more parametric control on the FiX. Maybe a shelf filter setting for the upper and lower extremes. And a larger range of choices for the high pass and low pass settings. i.e. have a 20 or 25Hz high pass available as a global subsonic filter that won't cause phase inconsistencies like it does when you put a high pass on a subwoofer output on a DSP.

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Old 03-18-2017   #663
 
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Default Re: Update on new JL Audio Processors

Can I take a preset for a saved project I.E preset 2 from project1 and load it into preset3 in project7?

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Old 03-18-2017   #664
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Default

Unfortunately, you can't copy/paste presets between different projects. You can duplicate presets within a project, and you can duplicate project files as a whole.
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Old 03-20-2017   #665
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Default Re: Update on new JL Audio Processors

Just ordered a TwK D8 to mate up with the FiX 82, and can't wait to try all this out!

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Old 03-29-2017   #666
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Default Re: Update on new JL Audio Processors

I'm getting the same strange cuts as Mike is when calibrating my Fix with the tone on a flash drive. It doesn't show up on rta though. Just a smooth downward taper starting at about 6k that can be easily shaped when I do my tonality curve. This is with 1/12 resolution and I zoom in tight so I can see the cabin-induced train wreck easier.

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Old 03-29-2017   #667
 
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Default Re: Update on new JL Audio Processors

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I'm getting the same strange cuts as Mike is when calibrating my Fix with the tone on a flash drive. It doesn't show up on rta though. Just a smooth downward taper starting at about 6k that can be easily shaped when I do my tonality curve. This is with 1/12 resolution and I zoom in tight so I can see the cabin-induced train wreck easier.
I ripped the calibration track in Wav lossless on a SD card at first. Then downloaded the track from JL's site (also Wav) and tried it on both a SD card and USB thumb drive. Both had the same results with those visible cuts ~10k. I've made adjustments to the levels on the TWK outputs and compensated for audible differences between the initial Fix settings and those after the firmware update and re-calibration. All seems to be better now.

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Old 03-31-2017   #668
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Default Re: Update on new JL Audio Processors

We are doing a bunch of testing right now to try and find the anomaly in the calibration process when using cal tracks encoded in different formats. We know that the straight WAV file on the CD is the most reliable and we are pretty sure that it's a bad idea to use an MP3 or AAC (iTunes) version of the track for calibration. We will have more information soon.
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Default Re: Update on new JL Audio Processors

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We are doing a bunch of testing right now to try and find the anomaly in the calibration process when using cal tracks encoded in different formats. We know that the straight WAV file on the CD is the most reliable and we are pretty sure that it's a bad idea to use an MP3 or AAC (iTunes) version of the track for calibration. We will have more information soon.
After talking with your tech department they mentioned that they were doing further testing regarding file formats and different media inputs. They made a follow up call with additional advice for me after a week of trying to replicate what I was seeing. I appreciate that level of service, you don't see it from every company. Thanks for the updates here as well.

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Old 04-01-2017   #670
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Default Re: Update on new JL Audio Processors

Manville, is Mark Eldridge involved at all with the software development and/or providing your team with any input/suggestions?
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Old 04-02-2017   #671
 
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Default Re: Update on new JL Audio Processors

would be cool to tune using android ... do people still own laptops anymore?
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Old 04-02-2017   #672
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Default Re: Update on new JL Audio Processors

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would be cool to tune using android ... do people still own laptops anymore?


What's Android?


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Old 04-03-2017   #673
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Default Re: Update on new JL Audio Processors

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Manville, is Mark Eldridge involved at all with the software development and/or providing your team with any input/suggestions?
No, he was not on the dev team. He was a beta tester, though.
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Old 04-03-2017   #674
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Default Re: Update on new JL Audio Processors

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What's Android?
It's that operating system for gamblers.. You buy the device, and then roll the dice as to whether it's going to work or not without absolutely infuriating lags or bugs because each device has it's own customized OS. Some devices even come with spontaneous fire bonus feature. It used to be open source then the carriers ruined it.

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Old 04-03-2017   #675
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Default Re: Update on new JL Audio Processors

Lol Scott, but in reality it's the only operating system for a phone, if ya require large capacity storage.......
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