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Old 01-21-2013   #276
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The things I'd ask for is first and foremost presets. Wish to God I could slap together one tune with X-overs, TA and EQ and compare it with one that's different. So much easier when you can just switch between them.

Why oh why is half the display blank? Drives me insane that the clock and track number are so small that I can barely see them. Why are they so tiny and stuck in the top of the screen with the bottom 2/3 of the screen mostly blank.

Better remote or at least better UI. Make it not so maddening to work in the audio settings. You have to use the remote because you can't see any other buttons and the knobs are so short that you can't turn them unless you have fingers the size of a 10 year old's.

Other than that I absolutely love this near work of art Pioneer has put together.

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Old 01-21-2013   #277
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tropikal_Knights View Post
Well I ripped the CD and played it back ......took a blind test.......had a friend do it......results I noticed a big difference.....the original cd still sounded way better......

the software used was Exact audio Copy.....Dunno I think I may just stick to using original cds have tried everything else
Did you burn a CD from those wav files? If not, then there are other reasons possible for your findings. Have a friend swap CD's on you a few times without telling you what you are listening to.

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Old 01-21-2013   #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tropikal_Knights View Post
Well I ripped the CD and played it back ......took a blind test.......had a friend do it......results I noticed a big difference.....the original cd still sounded way better......

the software used was Exact audio Copy.....Dunno I think I may just stick to using original cds have tried everything else
..........

Lossless is lossless. If there were a difference then your computer got issues xD

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Old 01-21-2013   #279
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Well maybe Pioneer will make something like this for the car:


They have the technologie (lol)

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Old 01-21-2013   #280
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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Originally Posted by Wesayso View Post
Well maybe Pioneer will make something like this for the car:


They have the technologie (lol)
lol.... remove the passenger seat in your Porsche and I'm sure you can find the space to install it xD xD

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Old 01-21-2013   #281
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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Originally Posted by Wesayso View Post
Well maybe Pioneer will make something like this for the car:


They have the technologie (lol)
They did back in the day.... CDX-P5000 50+1 cd changer

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Old 01-22-2013   #282
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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Originally Posted by MacLeod View Post
The things I'd ask for is first and foremost presets. Wish to God I could slap together one tune with X-overs, TA and EQ and compare it with one that's different. So much easier when you can just switch between them.
I agree.

The Pioneer RS-D7 ODR system can store up to 6 presets. And that's an older 2008-model head unit and DSP.

If ever Pioneer adds presets to the P99RS (maybe the P99RS-II?), I'm getting one.

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Old 01-22-2013   #283
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Originally Posted by co_leonard View Post
I agree.

The Pioneer RS-D7 ODR system can store up to 6 presets. And that's an older 2008-model head unit and DSP.

If ever Pioneer adds presets to the P99RS (maybe the P99RS-II?), I'm getting one.
Am I missing something? The p99 can store 5 presets.

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Old 01-22-2013   #284
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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Originally Posted by Wesayso View Post
Did you burn a CD from those wav files? If not, then there are other reasons possible for your findings. Have a friend swap CD's on you a few times without telling you what you are listening to.
yes I did .....maybe I am using an older version of EAC ....which is the EAC version I should use? and what other possible reasons.......
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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Originally Posted by Hanatsu View Post
..........

Lossless is lossless. If there were a difference then your computer got issues xD

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Maybe .......have also heard from people who compare lossless to CD and still believe lossless lacks in some areas such as stage depth.......

But you could be right.....
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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Originally Posted by co_leonard View Post
I agree.

The Pioneer RS-D7 ODR system can store up to 6 presets. And that's an older 2008-model head unit and DSP.

If ever Pioneer adds presets to the P99RS (maybe the P99RS-II?), I'm getting one.
Curious....if Pioneer did and you bought one

what would you do to your current P99
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Old 01-22-2013   #287
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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Originally Posted by Tropikal_Knights View Post
Maybe .......have also heard from people who compare lossless to CD and still believe lossless lacks in some areas such as stage depth.......

But you could be right.....
Just believe it, lossless really is the same signal as what is on the original CD. As has been said before, even the listening level could be influential to your findings. Get a cheap dB meter from ratshack (ehh Radioshack) or an RTA app on your phone and measure the output of your wave files when running trough USB and also when playing trough your CD player. Adjust the output so it is the same from both sources.
same signal in is same signal out. At least when using the USB if there is silence in a track you wouldn't hear the CD spinning . (if there are no other noises in your system, in other words if the noise floor is low enough)

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Old 01-22-2013   #288
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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Originally Posted by Tropikal_Knights View Post
Maybe .......have also heard from people who compare lossless to CD and still believe lossless lacks in some areas such as stage depth.......

But you could be right.....
Lossless is by definition not lossy. It retains ALL original data, period. It's the exact same principle as with a Zip or RAR file. If you compress a zip file with a text document you will be able to extract the exact same document when you decompress it with absolutely no changes.

It is simply impossible there is a difference, if there would be a difference then it would not be lossless. People who say there is a (audible) difference between lossless formats don't know what they are talking about. I can subtract the the data from any lossless format and compare them to eachother in Audacity. I promise, they will be identical. No need for subjective listening in this case :P

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Old 01-22-2013   #289
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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Lossless is by definition not lossy. It retains ALL original data, period. It's the exact same principle as with a Zip or RAR file. If you compress a zip file with a text document you will be able to extract the exact same document when you decompress it with absolutely no changes.

It is simply impossible there is a difference, if there would be a difference then it would not be lossless. People who say there is a (audible) difference between lossless formats don't know what they are talking about. I can subtract the the data from any lossless format and compare them to eachother in Audacity. I promise, they will be identical. No need for subjective listening in this case :P
As concrete as that is, unfortunately it means nothing here.

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Old 01-22-2013   #290
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Major Update 1/22/2013

After having my P99 for nearly a year I believe I have it completely tuned and time aligned. Had I known then what I know now it would have not taken so long but you live and earn and owning the DEX has been a learning experience.

By FAR the biggest time alignment technique happened over this past week-end and I stumbled on it by accident- but the results are probably as close to razor sharp perfect as I can get them. Here goes-

Assuming you have already-
*Drivers level matched. (I did mine as individual pairs, by ear, for every driver to center the stage. Note- NO time alignment should be applied during level matching).
*L/R EQ completed. I did this by RTA and pink noise- however it was not completely effective (more in a minute). I could not use tone bursts because these tended to bounce around way to much and some simply could not be centered, for whatever reason. I say the RTA was not completely effective because it did not reveal the most obvious issue which is off-axis tweeter high end response. It may have been my averaging technique. I used the typical 6-position averaging each for the left and right RTA plots. However I believe that it is worth experimenting to try and bias the averaging to the side you are measuring. In other words, don't sweep the microphone across the entire stage for individual L/R measurements. The off-axis response probably negates an accurate measurement. In the future I may try a 6-position average but keep the mic positioned left or right depending on the side being measured- and use smaller positional increments.

OK so now you have your stage balanced and centered as good as you can without turning on any time delay. At this point it I did enter in the as-measured to the ear distances for each driver. The stage is now somewhat blurry and definitely needs help.
I would argue that to adjust time increments should only be done to the driver's side for (3) reasons-
1) passenger side drivers are more on-axis and have a direct path to the ear.
2) passenger side drivers are farther away (percentage wise) and therefore small adjustments are more difficult to perceive. Likewise driver's side drivers are closer to the ears and are more sensitive to adjustment and measurement error.
3) driver's side drivers are more subjected to local reflections- steering wheel, dash, legs, seats, console and therefore are more sensitive to delay adjustments AND less likely to be "correct" simply by measurement.

SO, measurements entered for all drivers. NOW- here is the "BREAKTHROUGH" that really iced my stage accuracy. I isolated the drivers and began to adjust the driver's side distances in order to center the stage for each L/R pair of drivers (mid/tweet, midbass, rear doors). I did my best but the stage was still blurry.
Just for kicks I played the track on my test CD (Sheffield Labs "My Disk") where the narrator says "MY VOICE IS IN PHASE / MY VOICE IS OUT OF PHASE" I put it on repeat and noticed that the voice "IN PHASE" was blurry and all over the place while the "OUT OF PHASE" voice was more centered but not perfect. Since I know my drivers are all polarity matched, the wandering stage during the "MY VOICE IS IN PHASE" track on the test disk MUST BE A RESULT OF TIME ALIGNMENT ALTERING ACOUSTIC PHASE.

So I adjusted the distances on each set of left drivers one by one until the "IN PHASE" voice on the disk was perfectly centered (in acoustic phase). I did this carefully.

And holy cow, after I brought all the drivers up and listened to some music- it was so razor sharp it was stunning. I could not believe I had been missing this for almost a year and that it was so simple to correct.
Voices and instruments are now literally floating on my windshield as if playing from a cloud stage.

Please use this discovery if you are still having a wandering stage or other time alignment issues!

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Last edited by avanti1960; 01-22-2013 at 06:38 PM..
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Old 01-22-2013   #291
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Nice tip. I never wouldve thought of using that. I use the "voice in/out phase" track on the IASCA disc for certain things but never thought about using it to center the image up with time alignment. Ill definitely have to give that a try.

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Old 01-22-2013   #292
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Nice tip. I never wouldve thought of using that. I use the "voice in/out phase" track on the IASCA disc for certain things but never thought about using it to center the image up with time alignment. Ill definitely have to give that a try.
JL has a track exactly like that on their Cleansweep setup disc Except is breaks it down into three ranges as well as a full-range track. It's VERY helpful.

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Old 01-22-2013   #293
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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Am I missing something? The p99 can store 5 presets.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.
EQ presets only. The Pioneer P99RS can store 5 EQ presets.

It cannot store TA presets. It also cannot store XO presets.

The Pioneer RS-D7R ODR Head Unit and Procesor can store 6 "global" presets. Meaning you can set EQ, XO and TA and save all this to one preset. Then you can have a completely different set of EQ, XO and TA values and save it to another preset.

This is the feature I wish the P99RS had.

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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tropikal_Knights View Post
Curious....if Pioneer did and you bought one

what would you do to your current P99
Sell it. Or put it in another car.

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Old 01-23-2013   #295
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Originally Posted by co_leonard View Post
EQ presets only. The Pioneer P99RS can store 5 EQ presets.

It cannot store TA presets. It also cannot store XO presets.

The Pioneer RS-D7R ODR Head Unit and Procesor can store 6 "global" presets. Meaning you can set EQ, XO and TA and save all this to one preset. Then you can have a completely different set of EQ, XO and TA values and save it to another preset.

This is the feature I wish the P99RS had.
I see. Well I'm not using the processor in the P99. I have several "global" presets in my Helix P-DSP

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Old 01-23-2013   #296
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Am I missing something? The p99 can store 5 presets.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3 via Tapatalk.
Yeah its just EQ only. It is a huge benefit when you can set x-overs, TA and EQ and store that in a preset and then compare it to a totally different group if settings. Its a lot easier to pick out differences when you can quickly A/B them as opposed to having to go back and change the TA and/or x-over settings manually.

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Old 01-23-2013   #297
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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Originally Posted by quality_sound View Post
JL has a track exactly like that on their Cleansweep setup disc Except is breaks it down into three ranges as well as a full-range track. It's VERY helpful.
I may have to track down a copy of the clean sweep disk.

The more you think about it, if the "in phase" track reveals the voice to be wandering all over the place with your T/A settings, you know it isn't "right" and that your music will also wander all over the place. So you have to adjust it, What else can you do?

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Old 01-23-2013   #298
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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Lossless is by definition not lossy. It retains ALL original data, period. It's the exact same principle as with a Zip or RAR file. If you compress a zip file with a text document you will be able to extract the exact same document when you decompress it with absolutely no changes.

It is simply impossible there is a difference, if there would be a difference then it would not be lossless. People who say there is a (audible) difference between lossless formats don't know what they are talking about. I can subtract the the data from any lossless format and compare them to eachother in Audacity. I promise, they will be identical. No need for subjective listening in this case :P
Sounds about right........think Ill download the latest version of EAC and try it again....Would you have any idea which version it is and what encoder should be downloaded with it?
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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Just believe it, lossless really is the same signal as what is on the original CD. As has been said before, even the listening level could be influential to your findings. Get a cheap dB meter from ratshack (ehh Radioshack) or an RTA app on your phone and measure the output of your wave files when running trough USB and also when playing trough your CD player. Adjust the output so it is the same from both sources.
same signal in is same signal out. At least when using the USB if there is silence in a track you wouldn't hear the CD spinning . (if there are no other noises in your system, in other words if the noise floor is low enough)
i had already adjusted the output when I was trying this out........will get a db meter and try again.....
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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Originally Posted by quality_sound View Post
JL has a track exactly like that on their Cleansweep setup disc Except is breaks it down into three ranges as well as a full-range track. It's VERY helpful.
thanks again. i have the JL CD on oder (9.99, FYI). after living with the setup for a week more work is needed.

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