DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries - Page 13 - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum

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Old 02-03-2013   #301
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

You can actually save different things by using the "left"-"front"-"right" presets. I've only used left and front so far for TA and level info. Not sure of xover.

Maybe there are some restrictions, I dunno..

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Old 02-03-2013   #302
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Originally Posted by Jani X View Post
You can actually save different things by using the "left"-"front"-"right" presets. I've only used left and front so far for TA and level info. Not sure of xover.

Maybe there are some restrictions, I dunno..
I have done the same with mine but Xover points I think stay the same...

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Old 02-03-2013   #303
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jani X View Post
You can actually save different things by using the "left"-"front"-"right" presets. I've only used left and front so far for TA and level info. Not sure of xover.

Maybe there are some restrictions, I dunno..
this is a very nice discovery. i never thought about tuning each seat individually for different preferences- they save by default if you just select it and change the settings.

it definitely saves level, time alignment and phase. i'm betting it saves crossover points and slopes too- that would be awesome.

i'm gearing up for the superbowl right now otherwise i would go try it in my cold garage!

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Old 02-04-2013   #304
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

avanti1960... Thank you very much for all your comments in this forum.. I have found a lot of your information very helpfull.. and I look forward to more of your write-ups!

I was hoping you would share some of your actual settings, i.e. xover, L/R input levels, slopes, timming numbers, for each SBW, Low, mid, highs... I know its asking alot.. would understand if you didnt feel like posting it....

I'm still a novice with the P99rs.... and I had a difficult time understanding the difference between time alignment and phase... I fould this web-site that made it easy for me to understand it.. Loudspeaker time alignment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 02-06-2013   #305
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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Originally Posted by tjk_bail View Post
avanti1960... Thank you very much for all your comments in this forum.. I have found a lot of your information very helpfull.. and I look forward to more of your write-ups!

I was hoping you would share some of your actual settings, i.e. xover, L/R input levels, slopes, timming numbers, for each SBW, Low, mid, highs... I know its asking alot.. would understand if you didnt feel like posting it....

I'm still a novice with the P99rs.... and I had a difficult time understanding the difference between time alignment and phase... I fould this web-site that made it easy for me to understand it.. Loudspeaker time alignment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
no problem tjk, here are my current settings-

subwoofer- LP= 80 Hz, 24db
front midbass- HP= 80 Hz, 24db, LP= 800 Hz, 24db
front midrange- HP= 800 Hz, 24db. LP= pass
front tweeter- passive crossover 8 Khz, 12 db.
rear passive components- HP= 125Hz, 24 db.

for level settings I used RTA to match all drivers and adjusted by ear, centering the image as best as I could without T/A.

for time alignment I used the pioneer autotune setting for subwoofer which set the distance and reversed the phase. this sounds the best.
for all other drivers i measured the distance and entered them in the T/A settings. then i adjusted the left side T/A settings by playing a test CD with an "in phase" track and adjusted the distance to center the image for each set of drivers- done as individual pairs with all other drivers muted.

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Old 02-06-2013   #306
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Thank you for the repy.

I thought you were running a 4-way setup.. with the setup having the subs under the back seat, rear door mid-bass, front door mids, and A-piller tweets...not sure why I thought that.. guess I was hoping you had this setup 'cause thats what I have in my truck. I thought your settings would give me some clues on how to tweek my settings...

Looks like you are using the 'high out' from the HU to a passive Crossover (via amp) to Power your tweets & rear door speakers... if this is true, how would the rear speakers get a signal lower than 800hz? (cause the P99rs highs HP lowest setting is 800hz)

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Old 02-06-2013   #307
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

It's pretty meaningless discussing crossovers. The optimal settings vary from install to install. Speaker locations, drivers used and the environment (the car's interior) calls for different tuning and therefore different crossover settings.

I install my drivers at my intended locations and aim them, after that's done I simply measure them with a fullrange signal at listening position (don't do that with the tweeter). Based on the FR data I choose crossover points (it's also good to be aware of the distortion characteristics beforehand, for commonly used drivers the info is easily obtainable in most cases).

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Old 02-06-2013   #308
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Quote:
Originally Posted by tjk_bail View Post
Thank you for the repy.

I thought you were running a 4-way setup.. with the setup having the subs under the back seat, rear door mid-bass, front door mids, and A-piller tweets...not sure why I thought that.. guess I was hoping you had this setup 'cause thats what I have in my truck. I thought your settings would give me some clues on how to tweek my settings...

Looks like you are using the 'high out' from the HU to a passive Crossover (via amp) to Power your tweets & rear door speakers... if this is true, how would the rear speakers get a signal lower than 800hz? (cause the P99rs highs HP lowest setting is 800hz)
the high ouput drives my front door midrange with passive imaging tweeter. the low channel drives the rear passive components.
i have the high passed at 125Hz to cut down on midbass.

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Old 02-06-2013   #309
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Hiy'all, I thought id post pics of my not overly custom but very tidy install, p99rs w/ focal utopia 4 way active, (with about 40 hours of tuning already put in, and im sure another few hundred to go) running from 2 alpine f4's under the seats. 6.5's are in the stock locations in the doors, and a 21wx is in a custom made box (My spare tyre well was dynamated and sealed) in the boot! (roughly 25L) Let me know what you think, especially with the position and off axis mounting of the mid and tweet! Any suggestion and ideas would be grand. The stage is a little low, but i can play around with this with crossover and slopes between the mid and tweet. but other ideas wanted! (Bar having them custom mounted in the A-pillars)

On a side note, the 21wx is friiikin unbelievable! I have never ever heard a sub of any size or brand to be as detailed and as fast as this one. Maybe a couple close contenders, but this is EASILY the clear winner. Anyone out there wanting a sub that punches well, and I mean WELL above its weight and size, and gives detail in notes down to 25hz, (when sealed with plenty of room to breathe) get one of these, just truly unbelievable, makes any morel or dynaudio sub sound muddy and sluggish.
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Old 02-06-2013   #310
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Originally Posted by matyj View Post
Hiy'all, I thought id post pics of my not overly custom but very tidy install, p99rs w/ focal utopia 4 way active, (with about 40 hours of tuning already put in, and im sure another few hundred to go) running from 2 alpine f4's under the seats. 6.5's are in the stock locations in the doors, and a 21wx is in a custom made box (My spare tyre well was dynamated and sealed) in the boot! (roughly 25L) Let me know what you think, especially with the position and off axis mounting of the mid and tweet! Any suggestion and ideas would be grand. The stage is a little low, but i can play around with this with crossover and slopes between the mid and tweet. but other ideas wanted! (Bar having them custom mounted in the A-pillars)

On a side note, the 21wx is friiikin unbelievable! I have never ever heard a sub of any size or brand to be as detailed and as fast as this one. Maybe a couple close contenders, but this is EASILY the clear winner. Anyone out there wanting a sub that punches well, and I mean WELL above its weight and size, and gives detail in notes down to 25hz, (when sealed with plenty of room to breathe) get one of these, just truly unbelievable, makes any morel or dynaudio sub sound muddy and sluggish.
Heard an utopia system at one occation, sounded really good, loved the midrange.
For such an install I'd use the midrange driver perhaps from 200-250Hz --> 4kHz and the tweeter from 4kHz and up. Dunno how those 3-4"ers? sounds around 160-250Hz but cross them as low as possible imo (to avoid rainbow effect with male vocals).

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Old 02-07-2013   #311
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

by the rainbow effect are you meaning mid range frequencies starting from the 6.5's in my door then arching up to the mids on each side? Looks like a rainbow right?
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Old 02-07-2013   #312
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by the rainbow effect are you meaning mid range frequencies starting from the 6.5's in my door then arching up to the mids on each side? Looks like a rainbow right?
Indeed.

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Old 02-07-2013   #313
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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Originally Posted by matyj View Post
Hiy'all, I thought id post pics of my not overly custom but very tidy install, p99rs w/ focal utopia 4 way active, (with about 40 hours of tuning already put in, and im sure another few hundred to go) running from 2 alpine f4's under the seats. 6.5's are in the stock locations in the doors, and a 21wx is in a custom made box (My spare tyre well was dynamated and sealed) in the boot! (roughly 25L) Let me know what you think, especially with the position and off axis mounting of the mid and tweet! Any suggestion and ideas would be grand. The stage is a little low, but i can play around with this with crossover and slopes between the mid and tweet. but other ideas wanted! (Bar having them custom mounted in the A-pillars)

On a side note, the 21wx is friiikin unbelievable! I have never ever heard a sub of any size or brand to be as detailed and as fast as this one. Maybe a couple close contenders, but this is EASILY the clear winner. Anyone out there wanting a sub that punches well, and I mean WELL above its weight and size, and gives detail in notes down to 25hz, (when sealed with plenty of room to breathe) get one of these, just truly unbelievable, makes any morel or dynaudio sub sound muddy and sluggish.
Nice speakers! Loved them while I had them. Sold them years ago to buy a second-hand Nissan A32 for my wife. Hehe...

Are you using the crossblock?

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Old 02-07-2013   #314
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

no cross-block, have gone active off the p99rs, after a looot of tweaking my preferred settings are,
21wx low pass 80hz @ 30dbl,
6.5 highpass 80hz @ 30dbl, low pass 250hz @ 30dbl,
3" mid 250hz @30dbl to 4k @ 36dbl,
tweet 4k and up 36dbl with a pass on the high end cause they play to 40khz.....

believe it or not the cliff like slopes in my Car sound incredible. I played with leaving slight gapes between cross points and having shallower slopes, played with different speakers at different slops for phasing problems (of which there were very veeery few) toyed with crossover frequencies a lot and so far, this is by far the cleanest and the separation is superb!

I am a musician by trade, and in fact was lucky enough to see Maceo Parker here in perth last night. made sure i sat myself directly above the mixing desk at the concert for the best image, got back in the Car after the show, slapped on one of his albums and was preeeety impressed with the accuracy im getting with these settings. the 250 on the 6.5's dont pull the sound stage low with the tweet crossed at 4k, but the tiny jump to 5k and the image drops too much, pretty interesting. And the detail jump in the tweeter between 4 and 5k is dramatic! once youre above 5 the differences are minute same as below 4, but that seems to be the sweetspot for the berylliums, without the proper eq at 4k and lower the tweeter can sound harsh, but im off axis and with the eq reeling it back, man oh man the detail is uncanny. I did find the 3" mid to struggle a little bit with anything below 250hz, i may play around with them again around the 315hz mark, and put shallow slopes back on the 6.5 and this mid...maybe
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Old 02-07-2013   #315
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

one quick q, having the door grills in my jazz, the giant thick stock ones, will it play with the midbass frequencies too much? should i cut them out? the grills that is
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Old 02-07-2013   #316
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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one quick q, having the door grills in my jazz, the giant thick stock ones, will it play with the midbass frequencies too much? should i cut them out? the grills that is
I cut mine out. Big improvement in midbass. Then I made extra-thick spacers so that the midbass is flush with the panel. Then I used the stock Utopia grill.

And in my car, I found a -2dB dip at 8kHz helped a bit with the Be Tweeter's slightly bright sound.

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Old 02-07-2013   #317
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Like so many in here, I've been 'messin' with the P99RS with countless different outcomes, as far as what we (I) am looking for with the sound quality that is....

This post is mainly for those CREW CAB truck owners....

My setup is this.

HAT Legatia SE L1 Ring Radiator (R2) Tweeter - in the A-Pillars
HAT Legatia L6 woofer (no tweet or 2-way) in lower front doors
HAT Legatia L6SE (no tweet or 2-way) in lower rear doors.
StealthBox JL audio 10W3v3-(2 woofers wired mono) - under backseat (drivers side)

Everything is Active..
After numorous times of auto tuning and eq'ing I got it to sound pretty decent.
A week or so ago, I tried to apply the time Alignment method where you try to time align via doppler effect and pink noise... I tried it.. for hours, could not get it to work for me. So the tried the other time alignment called -- "A better technique for "ear" time alignment?" (other thread on this web) This I got to work for me for the midbase & midrange.. actually pretty easily. I had a difficult time with the tweets though..but I got em close.

After all this tweeking, along with all the previous tweeking i've done in the past, I always ended up with right of center stage.

I noticed that the drivers-side mid always sounded a little weak or hidden.. so instead of increasing the volume level for just the left mid, I changed the crossover setting for the left mid, by increasing the LP up from its current possition of 3.5k to 4k. This makes the Left front mid at 4k and the right front mid at 3.5k. This really seemed to center my stage a lot.

So, now I have everything centered, and for the most part time alignment ( more adjustment is needed) is done.... but the system sounded dull.. and bassy (bassie?). I could hear all the notes and the stereo seperation and the cymbals, crystal clear, - all of the music was there, it just didnt sound all that great.

so, I decided at this point to make a change to the 'sound retriever', had set it to 1 a long long time ago, and never touched it since... I changed it from 1 to 2 and BANG..... WOW.. The system really brightened and the stage lifted from off the floor up to the center of the cab. It sounds like I ADDED 2 tweets in the back D-pillars, and 2 midranges in the upper doors... The whole cab is full of crystal clear amazing sound with center staging... I thought to myself... "there it is..."
I'm by far no expert on SQ, I bearly qualify as a novice ... but I know what sounds good, and what doesnt sound so good.... and now the inside of my cab is just bursting with great tones upper and lower!!!

I wonder if Pioneer included the S.Rtrv - 2 setting for rear Speaker 4-way setup like I have.. cause it really made a big difference.


P.S. I know my signature includes the HAT Imagine l61-2's... I'm not using them at this time.. but I may add them in a kick panel in the future.

2011 GMC Sierra Crew Cab
P99RS, Hybrid L1R2 tweets, Legatia L6SE, Legatia L6,Imagine I61-2 2-way. PDX6, PRS4200F, XD400, Rockford P1

Last edited by tjk_bail; 02-07-2013 at 08:49 PM..
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Old 02-07-2013   #318
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Just wanted to add.. that, with the adjustments.... I can hear the snar drum pop inside the sub-woofer thump... I've never heard that before.. and its really cool!

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Old 02-08-2013   #319
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

While driving around listening to music, I lowered my window at a stop light (driver side), and noticed how much the centering effect moved way left, I could bearly hear the right tweet...

I assumed the centering effect dimished because the right tweet was no longer bouncing off the left window. Which got me thinking that the tweets time alignment may be scewwed (since it was timed by my ear via white noise and window up) I know I get way to long winded.. so I'll get right to my question.

Would it be worth my time to perform a new Auto-time/tune but this time with both front windows down.. and maybe tie up a pillow in each open space... ya know to absorb the freq refractions? Do you think I would get a true time alignment.. or is this just a waste of my time?

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Old 02-08-2013   #320
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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Originally Posted by tjk_bail View Post
Would it be worth my time to perform a new Auto-time/tune but this time with both front windows down.. and maybe tie up a pillow in each open space... ya know to absorb the freq refractions? Do you think I would get a true time alignment.. or is this just a waste of my time?
Perhaps you could try setting the distances yourself? Get a friend who is around the same height as you to sit in the driver's seat. Then measure the distances from the left ear to the left tweeter, left midrange and left midbass, then enter these measurements into your P99. Then do the same for the right (use the right ear).

I've tried this in my own Car and the results were positive. But this, of course, was after RTA tuning.

Before I did RTA tuning, I knew each driver had its own peaks and dips. So I let "auto tune" take care of this.

Then I tried adjusting T/A. After entering (as best as I could) the distances into my P99, I still wasnt satisfied. I heard my soundstage to be skewed to either the left side or the right side depending on whether it was a male or female singing. Deep voices moved the the left and higher voices to the right. And this was after several rounds of "auto tune." So maybe I got my crossover levels or T/A values wrong, or so I thought.

Then a local "guru" taught me how to tune with an RTA. Not really to achieve a "FLAT" response, but so that the left channel sounds like the right channel from the listening position.

But before this, I needed to hear the difference for myself. So here's how I tested my system: I moved the balance control all the way to the left and played a pink noise track. I listened a few seconds til I could more or less describe how it sounded. Then I paused the CD, moved the balance all the way to the right and pressed play.

Whadayouknow, pink noise sounded completely different!

On the left it was bloated and warm. On the right it was thin and shrill. No wonder male vocals seemed to come from the left and female from the right. And this was after "auto tune!"

So that's when I knew "auto tune" wouldn't cut it. I had to learn how to RTA-tune my own system.

This was almost 3 years ago.

See if you can learn (or get someone to teach you) how to tune with an RTA. You'll hear a tremendous improvement.

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Old 02-09-2013   #321
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Originally Posted by co_leonard View Post
Perhaps you could try setting the distances yourself? Get a friend who is around the same height as you to sit in the driver's seat. Then measure the distances from the left ear to the left tweeter, left midrange and left midbass, then enter these measurements into your P99. Then do the same for the right (use the right ear).

I've tried this in my own Car and the results were positive. But this, of course, was after RTA tuning.

Before I did RTA tuning, I knew each driver had its own peaks and dips. So I let "auto tune" take care of this.

Then I tried adjusting T/A. After entering (as best as I could) the distances into my P99, I still wasnt satisfied. I heard my soundstage to be skewed to either the left side or the right side depending on whether it was a male or female singing. Deep voices moved the the left and higher voices to the right. And this was after several rounds of "auto tune." So maybe I got my crossover levels or T/A values wrong, or so I thought.

Then a local "guru" taught me how to tune with an RTA. Not really to achieve a "FLAT" response, but so that the left channel sounds like the right channel from the listening position.

But before this, I needed to hear the difference for myself. So here's how I tested my system: I moved the balance control all the way to the left and played a pink noise track. I listened a few seconds til I could more or less describe how it sounded. Then I paused the CD, moved the balance all the way to the right and pressed play.

Whadayouknow, pink noise sounded completely different!

On the left it was bloated and warm. On the right it was thin and shrill. No wonder male vocals seemed to come from the left and female from the right. And this was after "auto tune!"

So that's when I knew "auto tune" wouldn't cut it. I had to learn how to RTA-tune my own system.

This was almost 3 years ago.

See if you can learn (or get someone to teach you) how to tune with an RTA. You'll hear a tremendous improvement.
Agreed! Left and right balance is going to be the key ingredient. I had the same experience until I got the same balance between both sides. I muted the left side, RTA'd the right side flat, then saved the RTA curve. Mute the right side then RTA'd the left side to match the curve of the right. At this point, both sides should sound the same and make it easier to T/A the system.

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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

okay. yep, I have definitely heard the different levels between the right and left using either pink or white noise.. and I experienced the same vocal effects you have discribed..

Looks like its time I invested in an RTA device ... thank you for your comments..
Any recommendations on an RTA device & mic I should purchase?

If you know of a thread on this web-site to get me started would be cool too!!

2011 GMC Sierra Crew Cab
P99RS, Hybrid L1R2 tweets, Legatia L6SE, Legatia L6,Imagine I61-2 2-way. PDX6, PRS4200F, XD400, Rockford P1
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Originally Posted by tjk_bail View Post
okay. yep, I have definitely heard the different levels between the right and left using either pink or white noise.. and I experienced the same vocal effects you have discribed..

Looks like its time I invested in an RTA device ... thank you for your comments..
Any recommendations on an RTA device & mic I should purchase?

If you know of a thread on this web-site to get me started would be cool too!!
Search TrueRTA or REW for software. The REW (Room EQ Wizard) is free and the TrueRTA 1/3 octave version is $39.95. Check Parts-express.com for the Dayton usb microphone.

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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Very Cool... thanks !!!!!!!!!

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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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Originally Posted by narvarr View Post
Search TrueRTA or REW for software. The REW (Room EQ Wizard) is free and the TrueRTA 1/3 octave version is $39.95. Check Parts-express.com for the Dayton usb microphone.

Sent from my SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE using Tapatalk 2
REW(RoomEQ), ARTA, HOLMimpulse are all free and can do anything you wish for. Nice to have MLS features as well as RTA/sine sweeps. These methods are all usable for different measurements. I never use RTA/Pink Noise though.

No experience with the Dayton mic, but the ECM8000 mic is another great option, which is quite popular.

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