DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries - Page 14 - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum

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Old 02-10-2013   #326
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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Originally Posted by quality_sound View Post
JL has a track exactly like that on their Cleansweep setup disc Except is breaks it down into three ranges as well as a full-range track. It's VERY helpful.
Extreme kudos to you for suggesting the JL disc- best 9.99 I have ever spent on Car audio.

the high frequency in phase track was a missing link.

pioneer should include a CD like this with the P99. hard to believe it's coming up on a year of owning the rig and i'm still working it.

Pioneer P99 source, JL HD and Slash amplifiers, HAT, Morel, Scan Speak and Focal drivers.
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Old 02-11-2013   #327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avanti1960 View Post
Extreme kudos to you for suggesting the JL disc- best 9.99 I have ever spent on Car audio.

the high frequency in phase track was a missing link.

pioneer should include a CD like this with the P99. hard to believe it's coming up on a year of owning the rig and i'm still working it.
What are those tracks for? Aligning tweets and mids?

This can be measured very easy in that case. HOLMimpulse is best to use imo, measure tweeter and mids with an impulse, apply the same highpass filter on the impulse response of both driver (in the program). After that you can see the time difference in (ms). Apply T/A accordingly. You can also see if drivers is wired right, if polarity is wrong you will see an initial peak that's negative (peaks downwards).

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Old 02-11-2013   #328
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Checking phase. They start with a man speaking in phase then out of phase. It helps. A lot.

I need to spend more time with Holmimpulse. I still haven't figured it out yet.

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Old 02-11-2013   #329
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Holmimpulse is very easy to use. Read through the manual, describes its functions quite good. There's a section which tells you how to T/A. Arta is more powerful but more complicated imo. Holmimpulse is great for gated frequency response measurements and time alignment. Very straight foward.

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Old 02-11-2013   #330
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

I would like to try Holmimpulse as well and plan to do so.
The great thing about the JL disc was that it plays audible material that allows your ears to easily make the adjustment in time alignment. Having the in phase / out of phase material broken into multiple frequency ranges is an outstanding tool.
Often I set things based on measurements at a particular frequency and when you play actual music the results need adjustment because of how your ears hear the fuller spectrum.
The JL disc tracks eliminated the second steps. The results correspond perfectly to full spectrum music material.

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Old 02-11-2013   #331
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I rely more and more on measurement solutions. After I've been tuning for 30min, listening fatigue kicks in and then there's no idea in continuing any more.

I always fine-tune EQ and set L-R T/A for correct center by ear though.

When doing it with measurements;

I align drivers the same side (mid/midrange/tweeter) to eachother by measuring initial peak. Then I delay all three drivers by the same amount until it reach 'center'. No room for error

The mid/sub integration can be measured by observing FR at crossover point. If you're lazy when EQing and got a good PEQ you can run an autoEQ algoritm in RoomEQ. It spits out Q/center freq and gain, quite awesome

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Old 02-11-2013   #332
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

That's exactly what I want to try. I just need ot figure out how to get signal to the processor. I'm guessing 3.5mm to RCA into the PS8 then measure as I would with TrueRTA or REW.

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Old 02-11-2013   #333
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Has anybody tried a new apple product with the "lightening" connector on the USB port to see if its compatible? If so, what device: iPhone 5, iPod touch, iPad/mini?

Sorry if this has already been asked, but a quick search couldn't find it.

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Old 02-11-2013   #334
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Lightening or Lightning?

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Old 02-11-2013   #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quality_sound View Post
Lightening or Lightning?
Good catch. Since people may have not understood the question due to my misspelling...lightning connector.

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Old 02-17-2013   #336
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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Attachment 34364

Attachment 34365

Attachment 34366

Installed it on Saturday Feb. 18th.

Biggest discoveries after a couple of days to listen-

1) The quality of the sub bass is as good as I could ever want and matches exactly my preference for excellent subwoofer bass. It sounds so much deeper, tighter, fuller, more accurate and correct than my previous head unit (Pioneer DEH-P8300UB). I didn' change the amp, the gains, nothing. Just the headunit and one complete auto tune session with custom network.
I don't know where the credit should go but I have to believe the ultra steep cutoff slope at the crossover provided by the units processing (80Hz, 36db per octave) has really tightened it up immensely. This improvement leaves me unbelievably impressed. This head unit all at once made my subwoofer and amp that much better.

2) Just one auto EQ yields much better sound, stage, accuracy, centering, clarity etc. than the best tune I could achieve with several months owning my old head unit.

3) I ditched the auto time alignment. It seriously detracted from the sound. I will revisit some form of manual TA as time allows- but with former head units I never found it to be a plus.

4) Biggest so far- the clarity of the sound allows the volume to be turned up significantly louder without fatigue or harshness! Again, no change in amp or gain settings- the ultra clean signal this source unit puts out lets me really really crank the volume much more than my old head unit.
This tells me that a "good" head unit with decent specs is not all it is cracked up to be- and that specs do not tell the whole story. I thought my old deck was a decent sounding CD player and pre-amp, it had great SN specs, had a 24 bit DAC, etc. just that it didn't have audiophile features like parametric EQ, time alignment, etc. It had 5 channels, adjustable high and low pass filters, subwoofer level, etc.
The DEX 99-PRS literally blows the old head unit out of the water- it made my amp and speakers so much better and louder!
It is really unbelievable and a bonus that I was not expecting.
very nice write up, one day i will have one of these hu's i did enjoy having my 9300 and 9400mp when they were top dog
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Old 02-18-2013   #337
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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Originally Posted by pionkej View Post
Has anybody tried a new apple product with the "lightening" connector on the USB port to see if its compatible? If so, what device: iPhone 5, iPod touch, iPad/mini?

Sorry if this has already been asked, but a quick search couldn't find it.
Works just the same as any older iPhone or iPod. I've e tried it on pioneer kenwood and clarion decks
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Old 02-18-2013   #338
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Wish you could use an Android phone with it. Whenever I hook mine up to it, I just get the "device not recognized" crap.

I know I can use the headphone jack but it would be nice to navigate thru my tunes via the HU. That reminds me, I need to go but a 3.5 to 2.5mm cord or adapter.

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Old 02-21-2013   #339
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Hello everyone......just wondering is anyone using bluetooth with the 99.......and is so which model......I might buy the CTBT 200 i think that is the name.....

What I am confused about though is that having owned a bluetooth integrated HU before (it had options to run the bluetooth like call answering , volume of call) since this does not have any bluetooth options how would I see who is calling, call volume etc on the HU if I was to buy the BLuetooth module.....sorry for the confusion...
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Old 02-21-2013   #340
 
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I have btb200. Every time I call, the other side would say I drop into water...

DEX-P99RS (Hi/Mid)->PRS-A900->Dynaudio MD102/MW160GT
Sub->Alpine MRD-M300->Dynaudio MW190
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Old 02-21-2013   #341
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

By dropping into water meaning ........

Also how do you read who calls and the in call volume
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Old 02-22-2013   #342
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Missed the 1-year anniversary by (2) days- dang it!
A year plus living with the best integrated mobile audio solution on the market and I have to report that I still have not arrived at a final ultimate "tune" but I like to believe that progress is being made- along with ongoing discoveries.
Just this morning I stumbled on a huge discovery- that the time alignment settings of my rear door speakers has been the culprit for drastically shifting the midrange image of the front stage. It seems as if I can have all (4) midbass drivers in blissful, bass enhancing low frequency phase- or a finely centered soundstage floating in my windshield glass- but not both! I am going to give it another go and if the results are not positive I am going to pull the plug on the rear fill.
Another discovery is that your SQ hearing ability becomes very acute. You can learn to easily pick out what sounds good and what sounds bad- especially other sound sources. My radio in the basement never used to sound so horrible- I used to think it sounded good. Same with OEM sound systems. Oh boy are they bad! Even the best of them. Even when running the P99 with a "bad tune".

Pioneer P99 source, JL HD and Slash amplifiers, HAT, Morel, Scan Speak and Focal drivers.
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Old 02-23-2013   #343
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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Missed the 1-year anniversary by (2) days- dang it!
A year plus living with the best integrated mobile audio solution on the market and I have to report that I still have not arrived at a final ultimate "tune" but I like to believe that progress is being made- along with ongoing discoveries.
Just this morning I stumbled on a huge discovery- that the time alignment settings of my rear door speakers has been the culprit for drastically shifting the midrange image of the front stage. It seems as if I can have all (4) midbass drivers in blissful, bass enhancing low frequency phase- or a finely centered soundstage floating in my windshield glass- but not both! I am going to give it another go and if the results are not positive I am going to pull the plug on the rear fill.
Another discovery is that your SQ hearing ability becomes very acute. You can learn to easily pick out what sounds good and what sounds bad- especially other sound sources. My radio in the basement never used to sound so horrible- I used to think it sounded good. Same with OEM sound systems. Oh boy are they bad! Even the best of them. Even when running the P99 with a "bad tune".
I experienced somewhat of the same effect you describe... So, I un-plugged my rear tweets.. and just ran with the 6.5" rear door woofers .... seemed to help a lot. still not perfect...

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Old 02-24-2013   #344
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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I experienced somewhat of the same effect you describe... So, I un-plugged my rear tweets.. and just ran with the 6.5" rear door woofers .... seemed to help a lot. still not perfect...
Today I'm "going in" to try and re-tune everything with the understanding that the rear stage time alignment affects the front stage.
The plan is to setup the front stage then add in the rear drivers, isolating the midbass driver's only.
Then I'll do measured response at a common low end point- e.g. 125Hz to determine the best low frequency phase delay setting for each rear driver.
Then I'll see how it affected the front stage. At that point I'm not sure what to do if the front stage is shifted. I want to keep the rear stage full range and in phase with respect to optimized bass response.
I will probably reverse phase and try again. If worse comes to worse I will try and increase the High Pass crossover frequency and use test tones to align phase at higher frequencies.

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Old 02-26-2013   #345
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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Missed the 1-year anniversary by (2) days- dang it!
A year plus living with the best integrated mobile audio solution on the market and I have to report that I still have not arrived at a final ultimate "tune" but I like to believe that progress is being made- along with ongoing discoveries.
Just this morning I stumbled on a huge discovery- that the time alignment settings of my rear door speakers has been the culprit for drastically shifting the midrange image of the front stage. It seems as if I can have all (4) midbass drivers in blissful, bass enhancing low frequency phase- or a finely centered soundstage floating in my windshield glass- but not both! I am going to give it another go and if the results are not positive I am going to pull the plug on the rear fill.
Another discovery is that your SQ hearing ability becomes very acute. You can learn to easily pick out what sounds good and what sounds bad- especially other sound sources. My radio in the basement never used to sound so horrible- I used to think it sounded good. Same with OEM sound systems. Oh boy are they bad! Even the best of them. Even when running the P99 with a "bad tune".
Start with the rear speakers delayed by 11ms and go up - I have mine @ 12.47ms (RR) and 13.70ms (RL) relative to the front stage
Intensity (levels) can also be the culprit for a shifting soundstage and phase problems...

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Old 02-26-2013   #346
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll give this a try. This will be a huge difference than my current settings and adjustment trials which have been plus or minus 6" from their measured distances. Since my rear speakers have nearly identical measured distance to the ears as the corresponding front (midbass) drivers this means the dealy difference is approximately 0.44 ms. 11ms means I will add approximately 148" of delay vs. the front drivers.

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Old 03-06-2013   #347
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

After finding this thread you guys have me motivated to go back and fine tune this thing. I used an RTA to roughly tune the EQ manually and set the TA by ear, mainly listening for a solid center image. I thought it sounded great until I read this thread and realized it could be so much better. I have it installed in a BMW 1 series with 4" components in the doors and 8" under the seats (all Morel) so the placement is a little wacky. It's all powered by my old Soundstream Reference 705S, using the passive x-overs for the components and actively crossing over the 8"s. I also have a JL 10w3 in the trunk. No rear speakers. You guys will hate me when I say that I bought this unit for $300 from a customer who wanted something "more analog" and replaced it with a $1500 McIntosh deck.
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Old 03-06-2013   #348
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

I'll give you $350. For real.

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Old 03-06-2013   #349
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Quote:
Originally Posted by wkndracr View Post
After finding this thread you guys have me motivated to go back and fine tune this thing. I used an RTA to roughly tune the EQ manually and set the TA by ear, mainly listening for a solid center image. I thought it sounded great until I read this thread and realized it could be so much better. I have it installed in a BMW 1 series with 4" components in the doors and 8" under the seats (all Morel) so the placement is a little wacky. It's all powered by my old Soundstream Reference 705S, using the passive x-overs for the components and actively crossing over the 8"s. I also have a JL 10w3 in the trunk. No rear speakers. You guys will hate me when I say that I bought this unit for $300 from a customer who wanted something "more analog" and replaced it with a $1500 McIntosh deck.
There isn't much out there that beats a mac...
Nice score on the p99rs.

I speak the truth because I care...
Pioneer ODR RS-D7xIII / RS-P90X; Modded Zapco C2k 4.0; Stock C2k 6.0; 2 - ID12; Illusion Audio C8; Scanspeak 2904-6000
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Old 03-06-2013   #350
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCo View Post
There isn't much out there that beats a mac...
Nice score on the p99rs.
Lol.

Does that thing play 45's though?
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