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Old 10-07-2014   #626
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

There was a hiss and distortion in the vocals and I couldn't figure out what it was,after reading a lot I remembered I used to get a lot of the error 19 on my flash drive.I tried the cd source in order to see if the hiss was there or not,turned out that there was no problem on the CD but only on the USB. I use a Corsair Flash Voyager 16 gb flash drive.After looking into a lot of things like my gain structure,RCAs etc I finally gave this a shot by backing up the Music on my hard drive and using the following method to flash my drive.

Disk - Clean and Clean All with Diskpart Command - Windows 7 Help Forums

I'm guessing the hidden bad sectors on the disk contributed to this mess which meant the unit was having a hard time accessing all the data,it used to not play some songs too.With this method it rewrites everything in zeros so it's kinda like having a clean slate and then you have a partition that you can format.
Note: When you're done with the cleanup use the HP format tool and don't use the quick format option,use the other to format the drive and FAT 32 as the format with default allocation size.

HP USB Disk Storage Format Tool - Free download and software reviews - CNET Download.com

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Old 10-07-2014   #627
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoLd_FuSiOn View Post
There was a hiss and distortion in the vocals and I couldn't figure out what it was,after reading a lot I remembered I used to get a lot of the error 19 on my flash drive.I tried the cd source in order to see if the hiss was there or not,turned out that there was no problem on the CD but only on the USB. I use a Corsair Flash Voyager 16 gb flash drive.After looking into a lot of things like my gain structure,RCAs etc I finally gave this a shot by backing up the Music on my hard drive and using the following method to flash my drive.

Disk - Clean and Clean All with Diskpart Command - Windows 7 Help Forums

I'm guessing the hidden bad sectors on the disk contributed to this mess which meant the unit was having a hard time accessing all the data,it used to not play some songs too.With this method it rewrites everything in zeros so it's kinda like having a clean slate and then you have a partition that you can format.
Note: When you're done with the cleanup use the HP format tool and don't use the quick format option,use the other to format the drive and FAT 32 as the format with default allocation size.

HP USB Disk Storage Format Tool - Free download and software reviews - CNET Download.com
it's all digital reading so I doubt it can cause any issues. In a storage unit, The sector is either read or fails.

Sent from Oppo Find 7
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Old 10-14-2014   #628
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

guys I know this has been all over the thread and I read and I am starting to get confused as to what to do with autotune

I have some questions:

1- shall I set the crossovers and slopes for the speakers before doing auto tune ( auto eq+ auto TA )
2- shall I sit in the Car when I do the auto tune
3- can someone again summarize the best practices for auto tune
4- can someone for a 3 way speakers system recommend the best crossovers and slopes for subs, lows, mids, highs ( mid + tweeters mounted on dash ), and woofers are in the door panels

I have the following speakers

1- Arc audio subs ( 2 subs )
2- hertz mille mlk2 woofers
3- hybrid audio legatia L3-mids
4- hybrid audio legatia L1 pro -tweeters

my initial auto tune, was a little dull resulting in a sound that its bass and subs was not much present, and no details or warmth or richness. I think the vocals were shouty too and feels plastic. the auto TA gave me a strange result for the distance of the woofers, it gave me that the right woofer is closer to me than the left woofer which of course is not, as for the rest of the speakers the auto TA gave I think logical distance results.



I have the following amps:

1- audioson lrx 4.1 connected to it the tweeters and mids
2- audison lrx 2.9 connected to it the woofers
3- audison lrx 1.1 connected to it the subs

Last edited by hykhleif; 10-14-2014 at 05:38 AM..
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Old 10-14-2014   #629
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Auto tune is a fairly useless feature, imho. You'll have much better results tuning manually......As far as recommended crossover points I can give you a starting point, but you'll have to adjust to yer install/liking......try 63 hz between the subs and midbass, 250 hz between midbass and mids, and 4 kHz between mids and tweets. These are just initial recommendations, and should be treated as such, experimentation is yer friend........
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Old 10-14-2014   #630
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Unless someone can answer my previous question autotune will set the eq curve, xover points, levels and T/A, so you will be adjusting on the autotune and thats it, however with a change in the xover points the EQ will need to be changed too.

My basic xover points are

Sub -63hz
Midbass 63-315hz
Midrange 315hz-4k
Tweeter 4k-20k full pass.

I start with 12db slopes on the lot.
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Old 10-14-2014   #631
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke/Peaandham View Post
Unless someone can answer my previous question autotune will set the eq curve, xover points, levels and T/A, so you will be adjusting on the autotune and thats it, however with a change in the xover points the EQ will need to be changed too.

My basic xover points are

Sub -63hz
Midbass 63-315hz
Midrange 315hz-4k
Tweeter 4k-20k full pass.

I start with 12db slopes on the lot.
so you must dial in the crossover and slopes before auto tune??

do any of you use loudness on after you tune, as really without loudness on the music sounds flat, no great bass.

with loudness on bass is great, but vocals and highs seems weird sounding, as if it becomes more shouty.

Does anyone also use SLA
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Old 10-14-2014   #632
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Quote:
Originally Posted by hykhleif View Post
so you must dial in the crossover and slopes before auto tune??

do any of you use loudness on after you tune, as really without loudness on the music sounds flat, no great bass.

with loudness on bass is great, but vocals and highs seems weird sounding, as if it becomes more shouty.

Does anyone also use SLA
No point doing an xovers or slopes as autotune will adjust it anyway, id like to be able to do an auto eq only with my slopes and points but I havent found how to, so I dont think you can. My suggestions for xovers points were if you either adjusted the auto eq to new points or did a full manual tune.

I dont use loudness however with the auto eq is boosts alot of the low end for me.

Anyone with a 3 way + sub install who has used autotune my p99 sets my points to

Subbass full - 63hz
Midbass 63hz - 1.6khz
Midrange 1.6khz - 8k
Tweeter 8k-full

Now my midbass is a peerless SLS 8 which has terrible midrange so im curious as to whether that is a bog stock setting for all 3 + sub autotunes?
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Old 10-14-2014   #633
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If you don't set crossovers with the p99 autotune it will use "standard" settings for each channel. It won't optimize anything at all. Since the P99 don't average the reading it can be a hit or miss regarding the EQ setting. In this case I wouldn't sit in the Car since it will probably not resolve T/A setting properly.

The Pioneer's autotune doesn't work good imo. It's simply too crude. Alpine's IMPRINT is the best I've tried, at least it got the T/A right. The main issue is that these auto tunes tend to boost dips that can't be EQed and create a whole lot of distortion in the process - that and the lack of a spatial averaging algorithm (Pioneer). To provide the best crossover settings I need gated FR and distortion plots taken on a test baffle. The lowpass of a driver is normally limited by the size of the driver - larger driver = lower LPF to avoid beaming in the xover region.

SLA is only a level adjuster for different sources.

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Old 10-14-2014   #634
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For a 3" I'd probably use 315Hz as HPF and 3150Hz as LPF if I were limited to the P99, 24dB/oct acoustic slopes everywhere. Mid in the 6,5-7" range can probably be crossed around 63Hz HPF. Depends on how good the drivers are. No experience with HAT.

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Old 10-14-2014   #635
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Quote:
Originally Posted by hykhleif View Post
guys I know this has been all over the thread and I read and I am starting to get confused as to what to do with autotune

I have some questions:

1- shall I set the crossovers and slopes for the speakers before doing auto tune ( auto eq+ auto TA )
2- shall I sit in the Car when I do the auto tune
3- can someone again summarize the best practices for auto tune
4- can someone for a 3 way speakers system recommend the best crossovers and slopes for subs, lows, mids, highs ( mid + tweeters mounted on dash ), and woofers are in the door panels

I have the following speakers

1- Arc audio subs ( 2 subs )
2- hertz mille mlk2 woofers
3- hybrid audio legatia L3-mids
4- hybrid audio legatia L1 pro -tweeters

my initial auto tune, was a little dull resulting in a sound that its bass and subs was not much present, and no details or warmth or richness. I think the vocals were shouty too and feels plastic. the auto TA gave me a strange result for the distance of the woofers, it gave me that the right woofer is closer to me than the left woofer which of course is not, as for the rest of the speakers the auto TA gave I think logical distance results.



I have the following amps:

1- audioson lrx 4.1 connected to it the tweeters and mids
2- audison lrx 2.9 connected to it the woofers
3- audison lrx 1.1 connected to it the subs

Id start with this:

1- Arc audio subs ( 2 subs ) LPF 50Hz 24 DB
2- hertz mille mlk2 woofers HPF 50Hz 24 DB LPF 500Hz 24DB
3- hybrid audio legatia L3-mids HPF 500Hz 24 DB LPF 10k 24 DB
4- hybrid audio legatia L1 pro -tweeters HPF 10k 24DB full pass

You will probably end up adjusting slopes, x-over points, and possibly adding a gap between the sub/mid-bass and mid-bass/mids but this will at least get you close and be safe for tweaking.

You want to get as much of the midrange playing through the L3s to get the stage up on the dash and not down in the doors.

I've tried the P99 auto tune and its pretty horrible, I would recommend getting comfortable, grabbing a note pad and reading this thread from ErinH.
Pretty much everything you need is covered in here.

The Essentials of Sound Quality IMHO

2005 TSX build in progress, build log found here: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...g-rebuild.html
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Old 10-14-2014   #636
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Quote:
Originally Posted by southpawskater View Post
Id start with this:

1- Arc audio subs ( 2 subs ) LPF 50Hz 24 DB
2- hertz mille mlk2 woofers HPF 50Hz 24 DB LPF 500Hz 24DB
3- hybrid audio legatia L3-mids HPF 500Hz 24 DB LPF 10k 24 DB
4- hybrid audio legatia L1 pro -tweeters HPF 10k 24DB full pass

You will probably end up adjusting slopes, x-over points, and possibly adding a gap between the sub/mid-bass and mid-bass/mids but this will at least get you close and be safe for tweaking.

You want to get as much of the midrange playing through the L3s to get the stage up on the dash and not down in the doors.

I've tried the P99 auto tune and its pretty horrible, I would recommend getting comfortable, grabbing a note pad and reading this thread from ErinH.
Pretty much everything you need is covered in here.

The Essentials of Sound Quality IMHO
can you please explain this sentence to me

(adding a gap between the sub/mid-bass and mid-bass/mids )

can you give how to do this based on the crossovers u mentioned above, i know it will be just a theoretical but so I can know what is meant by it exactly.

I will read the link you provided also
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Old 10-14-2014   #637
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanatsu View Post
If you don't set crossovers with the p99 autotune it will use "standard" settings for each channel. It won't optimize anything at all. Since the P99 don't average the reading it can be a hit or miss regarding the EQ setting. In this case I wouldn't sit in the Car since it will probably not resolve T/A setting properly.

The Pioneer's autotune doesn't work good imo. It's simply too crude. Alpine's IMPRINT is the best I've tried, at least it got the T/A right. The main issue is that these auto tunes tend to boost dips that can't be EQed and create a whole lot of distortion in the process - that and the lack of a spatial averaging algorithm (Pioneer). To provide the best crossover settings I need gated FR and distortion plots taken on a test baffle. The lowpass of a driver is normally limited by the size of the driver - larger driver = lower LPF to avoid beaming in the xover region.

SLA is only a level adjuster for different sources.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S5 using Tapatalk
thanks it seems i will try my best to get best the sound out of the p99 without the helix c dsp, as its way too complicated for me

I noticed that with only the p99 I hear the volume louder and more presence or dynamics than with the helix at the same volume level in p99.

my main problem is the vocals in both setup i don't know why i get the feeling as they are not present in a full warm presence. Bass in p99 was easy to fix but its the vocals that are driving me crazy, maybe its the hybrid audio speakers that are the issue
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Old 10-14-2014   #638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southpawskater View Post
Id start with this:

1- Arc audio subs ( 2 subs ) LPF 50Hz 24 DB
2- hertz mille mlk2 woofers HPF 50Hz 24 DB LPF 500Hz 24DB
3- hybrid audio legatia L3-mids HPF 500Hz 24 DB LPF 10k 24 DB
4- hybrid audio legatia L1 pro -tweeters HPF 10k 24DB full pass

You will probably end up adjusting slopes, x-over points, and possibly adding a gap between the sub/mid-bass and mid-bass/mids but this will at least get you close and be safe for tweaking.

You want to get as much of the midrange playing through the L3s to get the stage up on the dash and not down in the doors.

I've tried the P99 auto tune and its pretty horrible, I would recommend getting comfortable, grabbing a note pad and reading this thread from ErinH.
Pretty much everything you need is covered in here.

The Essentials of Sound Quality IMHO
10kHz? Not a good idea.

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Old 10-14-2014   #639
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Neither is a 50Hz LPF on a sub that will play cleanly over 100Hz.

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Old 10-15-2014   #640
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Hi, sense this thread is still so active I thought it would be a good place to get some advice. Just installed a dex-p99rs head unit in my Car and am loving everything about it except for one thing. All my low end subwoofer response is practically gone after switching to this HU, I'm talking about 20-40hz stuff. With my old cheap JVC deck everything but the low end bass sounded bad, but that JVC made my single sealed 10" sound like 2 vented 12's!! I've messed with every setting possible on the Pioneer and amp and no matter what the bass always sounds lacking.

I wanted to keep this short so if you want my full system details they will be posted up later.
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Old 10-15-2014   #641
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanatsu View Post
10kHz? Not a good idea.

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I'm running the same Hybrid drivers he has and also running a P99, those tweeters can take it and sound really good doing it. Again as I noted there will definitely be adjustments needed to blend it all together this is a good starting point.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Neither is a 50Hz LPF on a sub that will play cleanly over 100Hz.

Sure it can, but the problem is the higher up you run the sub the more localized it gets to the rear of the car, admittedly I am unfamiliar with his mid-bass drivers and subs, but with my L6s and IDmax (which will also play cleanly to over 100Hz) this was the best compromise to get strong punchy sub bass without drawing the stage to the back.

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Old 10-15-2014   #642
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

Quote:
Originally Posted by hykhleif View Post
can you please explain this sentence to me

(adding a gap between the sub/mid-bass and mid-bass/mids )

can you give how to do this based on the crossovers u mentioned above, i know it will be just a theoretical but so I can know what is meant by it exactly.

I will read the link you provided also

So I ran my subs to 50hz then my mid-basses don't kick in until 63hz on a 24Db slope, my mid-basses roll off at 316hz but the mids don't start until 500hz. I'm just saying you don't have to cross all of the drivers at the same point as the previous or next driver in the system, sometimes its beneficial to leave a gap in between drivers as the sound above or below the x-over point will still play albeit attenuated by whatever slope you have set.

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Old 10-15-2014   #643
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It's not the tweeter. It's the 10kHz lowpass on the mid. Everything from 4-5kHz and up will be pretty much directional as the driver will start to lose dispersion above 3,5kHz due to its size. You also risk running the driver through breakup nodes and crap (if there are any).

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Old 10-15-2014   #644
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southpawskater View Post
So I ran my subs to 50hz then my mid-basses don't kick in until 63hz on a 24Db slope, my mid-basses roll off at 316hz but the mids don't start until 500hz. I'm just saying you don't have to cross all of the drivers at the same point as the previous or next driver in the system, sometimes its beneficial to leave a gap in between drivers as the sound above or below the x-over point will still play albeit attenuated by whatever slope you have set.
Yes but we really need to measure before knowing. The crossover settings you set and the "acoustic crossovers" - (the ones you measure) are almost never the same.

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Old 10-15-2014   #645
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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It's not the tweeter. It's the 10kHz lowpass on the mid. Everything from 4-5kHz and up will be pretty much directional as the driver will start to lose dispersion above 3,5kHz due to its size. You also risk running the driver through breakup nodes and crap (if there are any).

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That L3 he's using can and will run full range 500hz and up all day with no problem at all, also keep in mind this is a phase plug driver and he has them installed in his pillars so dependent on aiming, being slightly directional becomes less of an issue.

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Old 10-15-2014   #646
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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Yes but we really need to measure before knowing. The crossover settings you set and the "acoustic crossovers" - (the ones you measure) are almost never the same.

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Agreed, as I stated, a good starting point, adjust as necessary...

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Old 10-15-2014   #647
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

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That L3 he's using can and will run full range 500hz and up all day with no problem at all, also keep in mind this is a phase plug driver and he has them installed in his pillars so dependent on aiming, being slightly directional becomes less of an issue.
Yeah... I'm sure they can be run fullrange and phase plug or not they will be highly directional at 10kHz, normally we want to cross in a region where the Power response is close or equal to the on-axis FR so we can EQ the reflections together with the direct sound. Any break up node or irregular rolloff beyond the beaming point will result in a system response that might be hard to tune correctly as "phantom sound sources" will have a different FR. My experience tells me its better to cross a 3" in the 3-5kHz region but you might get great results with a higher LP as well with some experimentation with aiming etc..

For the record, I've used fullrange speakers in two cars but adding a tweeter is always an improvement in the end.

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Old 10-20-2014   #648
 
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

guys i have a question, it seems no matter what i try using a 3 way Speaker setup i am not happy, wether with the p99 alone, or when used as a transport to helix c dsp.

it seems me and my ears just don't like 3 ways set up, now i was wondering can i go active with the p99 with only 2 way so that i remove the mids and just keep the woofers and tweeters

my speakers are:

1- hertz mille mlk2 woofers
2- hybrid audio legatia l3 mids ( i will remove those )
3- hybrid audio legatia l1 Pro tweeters

if i go 2 way how can i do auto tune ? is that possible
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Old 10-20-2014   #649
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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

I am using the P99 for 3-way and it works quite well. The one thing about using the P99 for 3-way that is not user friendly is that one of the mid outputs is fixed so you must deactivate the other mid output in order for auto-tune to run correctly. I can't remember off the top of my head if mid high or mid low is fixed, I'll take a look at mine once I drive into work today.

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Default Re: DEX-P99RS Ongoing Review and Discoveries

I'm quite the opposite. 95% of the systems I've heard in cars, 3-way front sound better. It's not necessarily the 3-way itself but rather the placement of the midrange drivers. To get 2-way to sound right to me, it requires large modifications to many of the cars available on the market. I firmly believe that midrange low in doors or in kicks in modern cars (with large center consoles) are recipes to disaster regarding focus and staging in the midrange. A good 2-way front got large drivers (6" or bigger) placed high in doors or or in the dash. Dash mounting often reduces stage width over sail/door mounting.

I've said this before but if a system is hard to tune, then it's VERY likely install related issues (often reflection issues). Relocating drivers is unfortunately the only cure for these issues. Using 2-way front will not improve this if you have less than optimal locations for the drivers.

I can to some extent predict how the system gonna sound by looking at measurements, if I know how the drivers are mounted, the size of the "room" and relative positions to the listener/speakers and how the drivers characteristics look like (polar response being very important).

hyhk, can you mail me the RoomEQ data file (*.mdat) for two measurements. Measure left side (all speakers) + sub with right side muted. Then right side+sub (left side muted). I'll take a look again and I'll try figure out what could be the issue.

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